UK: Drink driving - thousands caught over the limit twice

[webfact]

Drink driving; Thousands caught over the limit twice

 

More than 8,000 motorists have been caught driving over the limit twice in the past five years, according to the DVLA.

 

A Freedom of Information request by the Press Association showed 219,008 people were caught drink driving once in the same period.

 

Two drivers were caught six times. The AA said the numbers were "astonishing" and called for the process of returning licences to banned drivers to be reviewed.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38465366

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2016-12-30

[arrowsdawdle]

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

[jesimps]

32 minutes ago, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

Seen it all now, a Spam attempting to pull the English up on their grammar. Next he'll be having a go at our dress sense as he stands there in his loud shirt, string tie, trousers at half mast, white socks and big black shiny shoes. Not to mention the belt with big cowboy buckle. His name's probably Elmer.

[Sooo Upto Me]

1 minute ago, jesimps said:

Seen it all now, a Spam attempting to pull the English up on their grammar. Next he'll be having a go at our dress sense as he stands there in his loud shirt, string tie, trousers at half mast, white socks and big black shiny shoes. Not to mention the belt with big cowboy buckle. His name's probably Elmer.

 

Ru saying he's an american?  ?

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

Ru saying he's an american?  ?

What his response actually says is the gent above ^^ is spot on, hence the use of ad hominem to deflect from the embarrassment of getting "pulled up" for obvious misuse of English language by a mere colonist.  Bitter pill tough to swallow, eh, guvna'?   

Edited December 30, 2016 by 55Jay

[Neilly]

1 hour ago, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

 

Yes they will...£200 plus four points 

 

Driver booked for sipping water

[Richard W]

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Neilly said:

1 hour ago, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

Yes they will...£200 plus four points 

 

Driver booked for sipping water

Does this apply to hands-free drinking?  What about having food put in your mouth while moving?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Last time I checked, but in Canada and the 2nd time in 5 years is jail time for 90 days. Even for a Judge! They take that very seriously their now for sure. 

[Eneukman]

How can someone be stopped for driving whilst over the limit 6 times in a five year period? They should have been banned for life long before they even got that far. 

 

The answer is simple:

 

Second offence within, say, a 10 year period automatic minimum ban of 5 years. Third offence within a 30 year period, banned for life. Driving over the limit whilst banned - automatic life ban from driving with an automatic prison sentence if caught driving again at any time in the future regardless of whether or not they were over the limit.

 

Also, there should be an automatic prison sentence if anyone is injured if the person at fault was over the limit.

 

Alan

 

 

 

[ballpoint]

18 hours ago, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

When the verb drink is used with no object it is referring to alcohol.  If referring to coffee, tea, or any other non-alcoholic beverage, the object will be added.  For example, if I said "I don't drink" it would clearly mean that I do not consume alcohol, and not that I somehow absorb water from the atmosphere or food I eat.  If I wanted to say that I don't consume coffee or tea, I would add those to the sentence - "I don't drink coffee".  Saying that someone drinks and drives refers to the fact that they drive a car after consuming alcohol, and not that they drive about clutching a bottle of mineral water, or with a cup of tea balanced on their lap.  You could argue that it's better to say "driving while drunk", or "driving after drinking", but drink driving is also correct.

 

[jinners]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

When the verb drink is used with no object it is referring to alcohol.  If referring to coffee, tea, or any other non-alcoholic beverage, the object will be added.  For example, if I said "I don't drink" it would clearly mean that I do not consume alcohol, and not that I somehow absorb water from the atmosphere or food I eat.  If I wanted to say that I don't consume coffee or tea, I would add those to the sentence - "I don't drink coffee".  Saying that someone drinks and drives refers to the fact that they drive a car after consuming alcohol, and not that they drive about clutching a bottle of mineral water, or with a cup of tea balanced on their lap.  You could argue that it's better to say "driving while drunk", or "driving after drinking", but drink driving is also correct.

 

Sense, at last! Well done

[7by7]

The courts do have the option of imposing a prison sentence, even if it's a first offence: Drink-driving penalties. Unfortunately, it seems they don't do so anywhere near enough.

Drink Driving Statistics (figures for England and Wales only)

Quote

Out of the total number of people convicted of drink driving between 2005 and 2015:

• The majority of convicted drink drivers were male (84%) compared to female (16%)
• 76% of defendants received a fine
• 16% of defendants received a community order
• 3% of defendants received a suspended sentence
• 2% of defendants were sentenced to immediate custody
• 0.5% of defendants received a conditional discharge
• 0.2% of defendants received an absolute discharge

 

The courts also have the option of making the offender take an extended driving test to get their licence back after a ban, but, unless things have changed dramatically recently, don't do so nearly enough times. I used to be a driving instructor and remember talking to a senior examiner at Guildford driving test centre about this. He told me that they had never conducted such a test at that test centre!

Edited December 31, 2016 by 7by7

[Basil B]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The courts also have the option of making the offender take an extended driving test to get their licence back after a ban,

 

Maybe a mandatory "Drink Driver Awareness" course...

 

This is a difficult cookie, many may be a little over the limit but they will lose their licence for at least a year, probably 18 months or more, for many they may lose their jobs too.

 

My thoughts are that the limit should be reduced 50mg in line with most other countries, for being just over the limit for first time offenders could be subject to say a six week ban, a mandatory "Drink Driver Awareness" course, there by most would be able to keep their jobs.

 

Also all testing positive should be check to see if they are chronic alcoholics, all chronic alcoholics should be banned until rehabilitated.

 

 

 

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

Maybe a mandatory "Drink Driver Awareness" course...

 

The courts can offer offenders banned for 12 months or more the option of taking such a course in order to reduce the length of their ban.

 

24 minutes ago, Basil B said:

This is a difficult cookie, many may be a little over the limit but they will lose their licence for at least a year, probably 18 months or more, for many they may lose their jobs too.

 

I drive for a living and believe that the only safe limit is zero so do not drink at all if I am going to be driving. Any professional driver should have the same attitude and, frankly, deserves what they get if they do drink and drive.

 

I am also aware of the effects of drinking the night before; starting from an hour after you finished drinking, add an hour for each unit consumed before you will be under the legal limit.

 

The calculation to work out the number of units can seem complicated; (ABV x mill consumed) divided by 1000 = 1 unit. For example, a pint of medium strength (4.5%ABV) beer or lager is roughly 2.6 units.

 

Which means that having drunk just four pints you are not safe to drive again for just over 11 hours.

 

Of course, many beers and lagers are stronger than 4.5%, and then there are wines and spirits as well.

 

The stronger your drink, the more you drink, the longer it will be before you are safe to drive.

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The calculation to work out the number of units can seem complicated; (ABV x mill consumed) divided by 1000 = 1 unit. For example, a pint of medium strength (4.5%ABV) beer or lager is roughly 2.6 units.

 

Which means that having drunk just four pints you are not safe to drive again for just over 11 hours.

 

There are a lot more variables to take into consideration...

 

Quote

There is no fool-proof way of drinking and staying under the limit. The amount of alcohol you would need to drink to be considered over the driving limit varies from person to person. It depends on: 

• Your weight, age, sex and metabolism (the rate your body uses energy)
• The type and amount of alcohol you’re drinking
• What you’ve eaten recently
• Your stress levels at the time

 

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/drink-driving-and-the-legal-alcohol-limit/

[bangon04]

On 12/30/2016 at 6:29 PM, Richard W said:

 

 

 

Does this apply to hands-free drinking?  What about having food put in your mouth while moving?

The UK is the HUB of Nanny State.  Everyone will be forced to drive automatic cars in the future so that they do not ever take one hand off the steering wheel.

 

However - if you call the police to tell them a thug is threatening you with violence, they will answer - "please call again after you have actually been assaulted".

[Grouse]

I'm one of the last of the beer monsters!

 

I do NOT accept that a particular concentration of ethanol in the blood EQUATES to incapacity.

 

Clearly, if one feels incapable then one has a moral responsibility not to drive. The RULES we put in place take away all personal responsibility.

 

I have always consumed whatever I feel personally responsible with. I have never had an accident nor have I ever been stopped. I am 62 and can remember when Barbara Castle introduced the breathalyser in the early '70s

 

For me, drunkenness in public is now much more of a problem generally, particularly with younger Brits. I'm not driving, THEREFORE I have a divine right to be a public nuisance And an embarrassment 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm one of the last of the beer monsters!

 

I do NOT accept that a particular concentration of ethanol in the blood EQUATES to incapacity.

 

Clearly, if one feels incapable then one has a moral responsibility not to drive. The RULES we put in place take away all personal responsibility.

 

I have always consumed whatever I feel personally responsible with. I have never had an accident nor have I ever been stopped. I am 62 and can remember when Barbara Castle introduced the breathalyser in the early '70s

 

Totally disagree.

 

You may not feel drunk and feel perfectly competent, but even a small amount of alcohol effects your awareness, concentration, coordination, judgement and your reaction time. It makes you feel more confident about your abilities.

 

You may think that you are capable of driving safely after drinking; but you are not. The fact that you have never had an accident after drinking is down to one thing and one thing only; luck.

 

If, for example, a child were to run out into the road in front of you after you had been drinking then the effects of even a small amount of alcohol on the factors listed above could make all the difference between stopping in time or killing the child.

 

The law was put in place to save lives; and together with a concerted education campaign it has been successful in so doing.

 

In 1979 there were 6352 deaths on the UK's roads; 1640 , 25%, caused by drink driving. By 2012 this had dropped to 1754 in total, with 230, 13%, caused by drink driving; despite a tenfold increase in the amount of traffic on the roads. (source Dept of Transport page 8)

 

One only has to look at Thailand to see the difference tough drink driving laws, and the enforcement of those laws, can make.: Casualties up on last year after 2 days

Quote

The majority of road accidents resulted from drunk driving (31.8 per cent) and speeding (31.3 per cent)

 

I am certain that the drunk drivers in those figures believed, as you do, that they were capable of driving because they didn't feel drunk.

 

The only safe limit is zero.

 

Answer me this, would you be happy in an airplane knowing the pilot and co pilot had had a few beers before getting into the cockpit?

 

I wouldn't!

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Totally disagree.

 

You may not feel drunk and feel perfectly competent, but even a small amount of alcohol effects your awareness, concentration, coordination, judgement and your reaction time. It makes you feel more confident about your abilities.

 

You may think that you are capable of driving safely after drinking; but you are not. The fact that you have never had an accident after drinking is down to one thing and one thing only; luck.

 

If, for example, a child were to run out into the road in front of you after you had been drinking then the effects of even a small amount of alcohol on the factors listed above could make all the difference between stopping in time or killing the child.

 

The law was put in place to save lives; and together with a concerted education campaign it has been successful in so doing.

 

In 1979 there were 6352 deaths on the UK's roads; 1640 , 25%, caused by drink driving. By 2012 this had dropped to 1754 in total, with 230, 13%, caused by drink driving; despite a tenfold increase in the amount of traffic on the roads. (source Dept of Transport page 8)

 

One only has to look at Thailand to see the difference tough drink driving laws, and the enforcement of those laws, can make.: Casualties up on last year after 2 days

 

I am certain that the drunk drivers in those figures believed, as you do, that they were capable of driving because they didn't feel drunk.

 

The only safe limit is zero.

 

Answer me this, would you be happy in an airplane knowing the pilot and co pilot had had a few beers before getting into the cockpit?

 

I wouldn't!

 

My son IS an AirBus driver

 

He, and his colleagues, drink substantial quantities but NEVER fly when incapable.

 

You may need arcane laws to control your behaviour. We don't ?

[A1Str8]

Drunk driving lol. The privilege of people with a single digit IQ. 

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, A1Str8 said:

Drunk driving lol. The privilege of people with a single digit IQ. 

 

Read my piece again

 

Nobody should drive when impaired by ethanol to the extent that they are unsafe

 

My point is that a fixed concentration is unreasonable and the effect on people NOT driving is a bigger social menace 

 

I have children and take responsibility seriously. Sadly, too many look to the law as a prop to justify antisocial behaviour 

[steve187]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:31 PM, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

you will get stopped for driving whilst drinking anything, the correct term is not drunk driving but ......

 

in a previous life, i was a police traffic patrol driver and one evening we caught a man on 2 occasions driving over the prescribed blood/alcohol limit, as it was then

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

My son IS an AirBus driver

 

He, and his colleagues, drink substantial quantities but NEVER fly when incapable.

 

Are you saying your son and his colleagues ignore the 8 hour 'bottle to throttle' recommendation of the ICAO and national bodies such as the CAA; let alone the 12 hour rule most airlines have, and in so doing risk not only their careers but the lives of their passengers?

 

Please tell me which airline they work for so I can make sure I never fly with them.

 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Read my piece again

 

Nobody should drive when impaired by ethanol to the extent that they are unsafe

 

My point is that a fixed concentration is unreasonable and the effect on people NOT driving is a bigger social menace 

 

I have children and take responsibility seriously. Sadly, too many look to the law as a prop to justify antisocial behaviour 

 

The medical facts are clear and undisputed by anyone in the profession; even small amounts of alcohol in the blood impairs your abilities in the ways I listed before.

 

You talk about children:-

 

Harry Whitlam death: Drunk tractor driver who ran over and killed boy is jailed for 16 months

 

Heartbroken parents turn off little boy's life support after 'drunk driver' mows him down on Christmas Day

 

Heartbroken parents whose 10-year-old daughter was killed by drunk driver put their smashed-up family car on display as warning to revellers

 

I could post many, far too many, more examples.

 

I am sure that all the drivers who killed these children believed that they were capable of driving safely even though they had been drinking; just as you do. The only difference between them and you is that you've not killed anyone; yet.

 

Yes, anti social behaviour by drunks in the street is a problem; as I know all too well. Four arrested over Christmas Day fight in Woking being just the latest incident where I live.

 

But this topic is about drink driving, which kills and seriously injures, not anti social behaviour by pedestrian drunks which mostly results in minor injuries, if any.

 

 

[Alan Deer]

On 30/12/2016 at 3:31 PM, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

I guess you either aren't a native speaker or don't understand the nuances of English usage...if we took every English expression we heard as literal we'd  have great difficulty in understanding the real meanings of the language ...passed on...spend a penny...or in motoring..give way, speeding, tailgating j_walking, Sunday driver, black ice, accident, motorway, carriageway pavement..... Pull over????

Edited January 1, 2017 by Alan Deer

[Alan Deer]

On 30/12/2016 at 3:31 PM, arrowsdawdle said:

Caught drink driving? Typical British misunderstanding of English language unless UK will pull you over for sipping a drink like coffee, tea, or any other legal drink during your commute. The problem is with drunk driving, being over the legal limit while driving. 

I guess you either aren't a native speaker or don't understand the nuances of English usage...if we took every English expression we heard as literal we'd  have great difficulty in understanding the real meanings of the language ...passed on...spend a penny...or in motoring..give way, speeding, tailgating j_walking, Sunday driver, black ice, accident, motorway, carriageway pavement..... Pull over_??

[Alan Deer]

It seems that most on this thread haven't read the article which is about how oepke convicted if drink drive offences get their licences back 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Are you saying your son and his colleagues ignore the 8 hour 'bottle to throttle' recommendation of the ICAO and national bodies such as the CAA; let alone the 12 hour rule most airlines have, and in so doing risk not only their careers but the lives of their passengers?

 

Please tell me which airline they work for so I can make sure I never fly with them.

 

 

The medical facts are clear and undisputed by anyone in the profession; even small amounts of alcohol in the blood impairs your abilities in the ways I listed before.

 

You talk about children:-

 

Harry Whitlam death: Drunk tractor driver who ran over and killed boy is jailed for 16 months

 

Heartbroken parents turn off little boy's life support after 'drunk driver' mows him down on Christmas Day

 

Heartbroken parents whose 10-year-old daughter was killed by drunk driver put their smashed-up family car on display as warning to revellers

 

I could post many, far too many, more examples.

 

I am sure that all the drivers who killed these children believed that they were capable of driving safely even though they had been drinking; just as you do. The only difference between them and you is that you've not killed anyone; yet.

 

Yes, anti social behaviour by drunks in the street is a problem; as I know all too well. Four arrested over Christmas Day fight in Woking being just the latest incident where I live.

 

But this topic is about drink driving, which kills and seriously injures, not anti social behaviour by pedestrian drunks which mostly results in minor injuries, if any.

 

 

 

So if you drink a bottle of Grouse you believe you would be fit exactly 8 or 12 hours later? Don't be ridiculous. We're talking about exercising responsibility. Sorry you don't understand the point.

[Alan Deer]

Australia has a clear set of charts for how the effects of alcohol wear off. So do the international airlines.... If those pilots don't obey that they will  and should be permanently barred from flying.

I would be careful what you reveal in that regard, it is taken very seriouslIMO opinion that poster us duty bound to reveal which airline allows that sort of alcohol abuse as it could result in hundreds of deaths 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Alan Deer

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Alan Deer said:

Australia has a clear set of charts for how the effects of alcohol wear off. So do the international airlines.... If those pilots don't obey that they will  and should be permanently barred from flying.

I would be careful what you reveal in that regard, it is taken very seriouslIMO opinion that poster us duty bound to reveal which airline allows that sort of alcohol abuse as it could result in hundreds of deaths 

 

 

 

I think you are misunderstanding my point.

 

My view is that it is unwise to rely upon arbitrary rules rather than RELYING upon professional people to be responsible.

 

I have never come across a pilot who would fly under the influence AT ALL. Never mind 8 hours or 12 hours.

 

What is the legal limit for heroin? Crystal meth? Do you get my point yet? 

 

How about if if you just feel unwell? A dose of gout maybe?

 

Once you start providing arbitrary props you remove responsibility totally.

 

My last drink was 8 hours ago, THEREFORE I am fit now. It's nonsense.

 

You can not legislate for every eventuality.

 

I do not need civil or religious laws to behave responsibly thank you.

[bobbin]

Roll on () autonomous vehicles..

 

Problem (mostly) solved!