Pheu Thai demands govt answers amid election delay fears

[halloween]

3 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

I believe that is what the junta that ran Argentina Prior to the Falklands War. As did the military in Myanmar . The fact is like all Regimes in time they run out. You can rule autocratically by force for a while but sooner or later the people work out that they not the Military are the majority and change occurs. 

 

You could try to support Thailand's statement with a quick historical review. How many coups have required "internal upheaval" before elections were held? Any?

[Ricardo]

14 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

 

Taxpayers demand to know when they will get the scammed rice money back. They should also demand a legal opinion on why a judge gave Thaksin back one billion baht.

 

IIRC it was a billion US$, not merely Baht, part of $1.4-billion which had been frozen by a Thai court, much of which was later unfrozen ?

[Ricardo]

14 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

Thats one way of getting rid of your opponents is it not? just jail them its called rule by the gun

 

As when the PTP-led government used the DSI to try to jail former-PM Abhisit & Suthep ?

 

"rule by the gun" is surely when a government ignores the courts, rather than seeks to work through the justice-system, which is preferable IMO.

[chainarong]

5 hours ago, kennw said:

And neither did the Australian political system get a "great wrap" from the Oz media either. So what's your point.  

They never get a good wrap, but hey Oz ain't down to LM and we ain't down to section 44 nor single gate ways and the army ain't doin any arresting or out on the streets or running the country , not yet , but we have to be ever vigilant, cause back flip Mal is liable to pull any shithouse trick

[halloween]

11 hours ago, baboon said:

"There is a very slight chance that Thaksin may get an amnesty from the charge he fled from but there are quite a few more serious ones waiting for him."

 

I think that this is where your interesting post begins to become unstuck. You see in my opinion, you are dead right about more serious charges that should be levelled against him, but they won't. Why? He knows where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally. He was and I imagine still is an influential figure with the capacity to bring down the house of cards, given the dirt he must have on so many.

Why would he be allowed back to wreak havoc with a still sizeable base of support when he proves far more useful as the bogeyman in Dubai?

 

More serious charges have already been filed, only awaiting his appearance before the courts proceed. He wouldn't do it while his proxy was running the country, instead opting for a blatantly corrupt amnesty, why would he do it at any other time?

[Baerboxer]

On 1/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, baboon said:

Even if they do, so what? Exactly what is unreasonable about wanting to know?

 

Very true.

 

Just like when the Ombudsman, officially and in line with his powers, asked Ms. Yingluck and Cousin Number 1 to explain why they illegally issued new passports to their criminal fugitive relative; opening the Foreign Ministry specially during the worst flooding in living memory; and hand delivering it. 

 

I believe that question remains unanswered, despite Ms.Yingluck promising to do so in 3 months; then asking for another 3 months as the person working on the answer was changed and the new person needed to get up to speed; then simply ignoring further requests.

 

Reasonable - certainly is. But they should expect the same time scale and courtesy.

 

Oh but of course, PTP - do as we say not as we do.

[Baerboxer]

12 hours ago, baboon said:

"There is a very slight chance that Thaksin may get an amnesty from the charge he fled from but there are quite a few more serious ones waiting for him."

 

I think that this is where your interesting post begins to become unstuck. You see in my opinion, you are dead right about more serious charges that should be levelled against him, but they won't. Why? He knows where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally. He was and I imagine still is an influential figure with the capacity to bring down the house of cards, given the dirt he must have on so many.

Why would he be allowed back to wreak havoc with a still sizeable base of support when he proves far more useful as the bogeyman in Dubai?

 

Thaksin can't be pardoned because he hasn't served any of the sentence. He is also guilty of absconding whilst on bail. Proposing a full amnesty, "zeroing the clock as he suggested himself" didn't work out so well.

He does face many serious charges for which court warrants have been issued. He is a named defendant in the Krungthai Bank fraud in which other defendants have been convicted and jailed, some for 18 years. I'm sure he doesn't fancy that one and will let the statute of limitations expire. Giving him amnesty they'd have to let the others go to. Can't see that.

 

However, totally agree with you. He's got too much knowledge that could be dynamite if all was revealed. He must know therefore what awaits him should he decide to come clean and return and face up to everything. Whilst he's the bogeyman he's useful. He will be prevented from getting his family back in control under his command I think and unless things change considerable will be too risky for him to dare and return.

[Eric Loh]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I didn't know that much about Chaturon and I had to look him up in Wikipedia. A very interesting man and possibly not that easy a man to be controlled looking at his past political history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaturon_Chaisang

 

The isn't a lot written about Sudarat on Wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarat_Keyuraphan

 

I would have to rely on my somewhat shaky memory of Thai politics from some 15 to 20 years ago and peruse the internet to find out more.

 

I wouldn't want to chose between them as perhaps Thailand may prefer another woman PM though Chaturon has more political experience.

 

There is a very slight chance that Thaksin may get an amnesty from the charge he fled from but there are quite a few more serious ones waiting for him. Some of them have involved other persons who have been convicted and jailed already so if he were given an amnesty on those it would be reasonable to think that the already jailed persons would expect an amnesty as well.

 

IMHO he will never be allowed back into politics again, though if he can learn and agree to keep silent and grow roses (mushrooms) the present government may allow him back but on a very short chain.

 

Agree that Chaturon has more political experience after serving in different ministerial portfolio. I like him as he is a strong minded intelligent man. Thaksin has to calm his euthusiasm numerous occasions by changing his ministerial portfolio. He will be that person that will dare challenge Thaksin's views. However he has been charged by the junta for computer crime law and defying AA reporting and may be high risk liabilities to PT. 

 

Sudarat is a true loyal Thaksin party member and is supported by Thaksin's sisters and has little baggage. She is quite aloof and may not win the support of the grassroots.

 

Just my humble opinion before this off topic taken out by the administrator. 

[baboon]

39 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Very true.

 

Just like when the Ombudsman, officially and in line with his powers, asked Ms. Yingluck and Cousin Number 1 to explain why they illegally issued new passports to their criminal fugitive relative; opening the Foreign Ministry specially during the worst flooding in living memory; and hand delivering it. 

 

I believe that question remains unanswered, despite Ms.Yingluck promising to do so in 3 months; then asking for another 3 months as the person working on the answer was changed and the new person needed to get up to speed; then simply ignoring further requests.

 

Reasonable - certainly is. But they should expect the same time scale and courtesy.

 

Oh but of course, PTP - do as we say not as we do.

You'll get no argument from me. Unacceptable conduct is unacceptable conduct.

That said, he isn't a fugitive, no matter how many times people dust that one off and wheel it out.

Edited January 4, 2017 by baboon

[wakeupplease]

Until Thailand learns to forgive and forget you will never move on you will continue to move downwards and in the end require outside interference to sort out the crap which I hope will never happen.

Thailand is a wonderful country with over 60 million nice people its an insult to your culture to see this military rule being imposed every 4 years or so just to fill the minority's pockets.

The world has changed and will change even more in 2017 so if Thailand does not then North Korea is an example of where you will end up with no friends no business and no tourists hence bankrupt.

 

PT2

As when the PTP-led government used the DSI to try to jail former-PM Abhisit & Suthep ?

 

Those two do need jailing Democratic Party some one needs to go back to school and learn what democratic means. its not the rubbish these two try and pass off that is for sure

 

Change has got to come and sooner the better for Thailand and its true THAI People

 

 

[GarryP]

On 1/3/2017 at 10:33 AM, halloween said:

 

Hopefully there is an alternative, but handing control of the country to a blatantly corrupt fugitive criminal is not acceptable to me or many others.

You think corruption is one of the reasons they will not hold elections? That is, they view PTP as corrupt and as PTP would probably win again, they can't allow elections to proceed.

 

I think you will find corruption of PTP is one of the very minor reasons for not holding elections. Keeping a finger in the pie is much more important to the Junta, its cronies, and the puppet masters. Also, the Junta can't afford to allow democracy to take root and thrive in Thailand. The military would then become obsolete, or at least 80 percent of it would. But at least it could then do the job that the military is intended for.      

[JAG]

I believe that is what the junta that ran Argentina Prior to the Falklands War. As did the military in Myanmar . The fact is like all Regimes in time they run out. You can rule autocratically by force for a while but sooner or later the people work out that they not the Military are the majority and change occurs. 

The question is when is that going to happen?

At the moment there is no real signs of that happening, but these things can happen very quickly, particularly I would suggest with a younger population, perhaps not better educated than before but certainly better informed and more aware; and which is linked by communication means that those in power do not control.

Perhaps it will take everyone, and particularly the junta by surprise?

[billd766]

14 hours ago, baboon said:

"There is a very slight chance that Thaksin may get an amnesty from the charge he fled from but there are quite a few more serious ones waiting for him."

 

I think that this is where your interesting post begins to become unstuck. You see in my opinion, you are dead right about more serious charges that should be leveled against him, but they won't. Why? He knows where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally. He was and I imagine still is an influential figure with the capacity to bring down the house of cards, given the dirt he must have on so many.

Why would he be allowed back to wreak havoc with a still sizeable base of support when he proves far more useful as the bogeyman in Dubai?

 

You are correct and it was something I hadn't considered.

 

But the dirt will flow both ways so it seems like a Mexican standoff at the moment.

 

OTOH I suspect that where the really influential people are will be the people that he cannot afford to upset and should he attempt to knock down the house of cards he will be gently reminded about what and who he has left behind in Thailand. He may not care about them and I think he only cares about himself really, but they will still be there.

 

I believe that you are right about him being better off, certainly for this government, being the big bad bogeyman of Dubai.

[Eric Loh]

The people of Thailand deserved better than living under a coup government. There are more coup governments than elected governments in the history of Thailand. By the time this election is held, the junta government will serve a normal full tenure of an elected government and nothing to show except managing a big event and re-writing the charter to favor future military dominance. The nation is still corrupted and divided as before. The power cliques are still all there. Thaksin aura is still strong and still have a big influence on the future of Thailand. Economy is in the dump and the negative effect of the coup on foreign direct investments will set back 10 years of potential growth. Meanwhile all the FDI are going to our neighbouring countries. 

 

Not only Pheu Thai demand answers to the election, many will be happy to see the back of the inept unelected junta government.

[halloween]

On 04/01/2017 at 2:34 PM, baboon said:

You'll get no argument from me. Unacceptable conduct is unacceptable conduct.

That said, he isn't a fugitive, no matter how many times people dust that one off and wheel it out.

I am interested how you would describe a person who cannot return to his home country because he faces incarceration and multiple serious charges awaiting prosecution.

[scorecard]

On 1/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, baboon said:

Even if they do, so what? Exactly what is unreasonable about wanting to know?

 

 

Ahh the irony bell.

[scorecard]

On 1/4/2017 at 11:06 AM, Baerboxer said:

 

Thaksin can't be pardoned because he hasn't served any of the sentence. He is also guilty of absconding whilst on bail. Proposing a full amnesty, "zeroing the clock as he suggested himself" didn't work out so well.

He does face many serious charges for which court warrants have been issued. He is a named defendant in the Krungthai Bank fraud in which other defendants have been convicted and jailed, some for 18 years. I'm sure he doesn't fancy that one and will let the statute of limitations expire. Giving him amnesty they'd have to let the others go to. Can't see that.

 

However, totally agree with you. He's got too much knowledge that could be dynamite if all was revealed. He must know therefore what awaits him should he decide to come clean and return and face up to everything. Whilst he's the bogeyman he's useful. He will be prevented from getting his family back in control under his command I think and unless things change considerable will be too risky for him to dare and return.

 

 

" Why? He knows where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally."

 

Haven't heard that one before, please share.

 

If tit for tat came into play others may well demand the paymaster to explain how he got a telcoms monopoly, given on a silver platter by a nasty ruthless general, when in fact it was solid state policy that all telecoms activity had to be owned / controlled by the state.

 

The paymaster would have known that point very well, so why did he accept the license? Or, put it another way why did he accept it  knowing that it was illegal for an individual citizen to hold the license?

Edited January 5, 2017 by scorecard

[baboon]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

I am interested how you would describe a person who cannot return to his home country because he faces incarceration and multiple serious charges awaiting prosecution.

An absconder.

[baboon]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

" Why? He knows where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally."

 

Haven't heard that one before, please share.

 

If tit for tat came into play others may well demand the paymaster to explain how he got a telcoms monopoly, given on a silver platter by a nasty ruthless general, when in fact it was solid state policy that all telecoms activity had to be owned / controlled by the state.

 

The paymaster would have known that point very well, so why did he accept the license? Or, put it another way why did he accept it  knowing that it was illegal for an individual citizen to hold the license?

How the bloody hell should I know what was / is in his mind? I am not a family member, anything to do with any of his parties or even particularly interested in his thought processes. I do have a life which does not revolve around obsessing over the Shinawatra family, unlike a few on here.

[JAG]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

An absconder.

Ah but "fugitive" is much more dramatic.

 

It conjures up images of a desperado, probably in tattered garb, living from hand to mouth, ceaselessly on the run, every mans hand against him, with the implacable and incorruptible forces of good and righteousness nobly striving to bring him to justice at all costs,  It fits the narrative you see - didn't one fevered soul some months ago describe him as "the most evil man to come out of Asia" (one in the eye for Pol Pot and Genghis  Khan among others, but never mind)?

 

The reality of course is an exiled politician living in comfort in a foreign country, free to travel the world as the fancy takes him, safe in the knowledge that any country with the remotest pretensions to democratic governance regard his conviction with derision; but choose instead to regard him as an elected politician toppled by one of a series of military coups, and aware that if he were to return to Thailand and its junta he would likely be dead within days.

 

No "fugitive " it has to be.

[scorecard]

36 minutes ago, JAG said:

Ah but "fugitive" is much more dramatic.

 

It conjures up images of a desperado, probably in tattered garb, living from hand to mouth, ceaselessly on the run, every mans hand against him, with the implacable and incorruptible forces of good and righteousness nobly striving to bring him to justice at all costs,  It fits the narrative you see - didn't one fevered soul some months ago describe him as "the most evil man to come out of Asia" (one in the eye for Pol Pot and Genghis  Khan among others, but never mind)?

 

The reality of course is an exiled politician living in comfort in a foreign country, free to travel the world as the fancy takes him, safe in the knowledge that any country with the remotest pretensions to democratic governance regard his conviction with derision; but choose instead to regard him as an elected politician toppled by one of a series of military coups, and aware that if he were to return to Thailand and its junta he would likely be dead within days.

 

No "fugitive " it has to be.

 

Ahh so sad.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

How the bloody hell should I know what was / is in his mind? I am not a family member, anything to do with any of his parties or even particularly interested in his thought processes. I do have a life which does not revolve around obsessing over the Shinawatra family, unlike a few on here.

 

 

So why then do you make the substantive statement  "He knows (he knows) where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally."?

[baboon]

49 minutes ago, JAG said:

Ah but "fugitive" is much more dramatic.

 

It conjures up images of a desperado, probably in tattered garb, living from hand to mouth, ceaselessly on the run, every mans hand against him, with the implacable and incorruptible forces of good and righteousness nobly striving to bring him to justice at all costs,  It fits the narrative you see - didn't one fevered soul some months ago describe him as "the most evil man to come out of Asia" (one in the eye for Pol Pot and Genghis  Khan among others, but never mind)?

 

The reality of course is an exiled politician living in comfort in a foreign country, free to travel the world as the fancy takes him, safe in the knowledge that any country with the remotest pretensions to democratic governance regard his conviction with derision; but choose instead to regard him as an elected politician toppled by one of a series of military coups, and aware that if he were to return to Thailand and its junta he would likely be dead within days.

 

No "fugitive " it has to be.

That's you off Halloween's 2017 Christmas card list...

Of course having read your post and having the 'fugitive' flapdoodle disproved yet again won't stop the usual crowd using it again as soon as they possibly can, along with the same 'How is he not a fugitive' question asked as though this thread never happened...

[scorecard]

55 minutes ago, JAG said:

Ah but "fugitive" is much more dramatic.

 

It conjures up images of a desperado, probably in tattered garb, living from hand to mouth, ceaselessly on the run, every mans hand against him, with the implacable and incorruptible forces of good and righteousness nobly striving to bring him to justice at all costs,  It fits the narrative you see - didn't one fevered soul some months ago describe him as "the most evil man to come out of Asia" (one in the eye for Pol Pot and Genghis  Khan among others, but never mind)?

 

The reality of course is an exiled politician living in comfort in a foreign country, free to travel the world as the fancy takes him, safe in the knowledge that any country with the remotest pretensions to democratic governance regard his conviction with derision; but choose instead to regard him as an elected politician toppled by one of a series of military coups, and aware that if he were to return to Thailand and its junta he would likely be dead within days.

 

No "fugitive " it has to be.

 

Well seems there's a case for two descriptions:

 

- Fugitive

 

- Fugitive in self imposed exile.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

So why then do you make the substantive statement  "He knows (he knows) where the bodies are buried figuratively and possibly literally."?

Look at the word 'possibly' in the sentence. Also the word 'figuratively'. Are you suggesting he won't have dirt on an awful lot of people? If so, I suspect you are in a minority of one.

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Well seems there's a case for two descriptions:

 

- Fugitive

 

- Fugitive in self imposed exile.

To be a fugitive means you are being chased. He isn't.

[Motown239]

There should be sincere discussion with all Thai political parties, regarding a election. It should be a priority to have proper election with qualified candidates.

Sure, the silence is disturbing and gives citizens doubt about a honest and fair election. Often, silence speaks louder than words.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, baboon said:

To be a fugitive means you are being chased. He isn't.

 

OK, point taken. My error, I withdraw the word fugitive replaced by convicted criminal in self imposed exile.

Edited January 5, 2017 by scorecard

[baboon]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

OK, point taken. My error, I withdraw the word fugitive replaced by convicted criminal in self imposed exile.

Excellent. You may also wish to consider using constantly the phrase above. Why? It does your 'cause' for want of a better word no good at all. Let's be honest, whenever the term 'bigot' is used for example, or 'left wing liberal media'. It immediately turns the reader off - Oh God, here is another one who simply parrots the lines he is fed.

Use your own thoughts, your own perspective, your own words. It will draw more attention and give more credibility to what you have to say. 

Pompous lecture over. Enjoy the rest of your evening!

[icare999]

On 3 January 2017 at 11:05 AM, Eric Loh said:

 

Now I know your level of understanding of Thai politics. Thanks.

no it shows your total naivity if you really think Taksin has not alwasy bought power try living in a Red village for a few years and your eyes will be opened but thank goodness if our Tassin controlled sorry red hsirt thug controlled red village things have changed but would go back  in an instant if Taksins money and his red shirt thugs got back