Brexit – which way now as UK’s EU ambassador resigns

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The up to 10 years was to reach a trade deal, and is the consensus of the other 27 EU members. The ambassador was relaying other EU members views.

 

That is correct and in line with trade deals struck between the EU and other countries.  The difficulty now is finding someone savvy enough to lead the negotiations.  Ivor knows everyone involved and understands the system better than just about anyone else, especially on the EU side.  He is a serious loss to the Brexit camp.

[Khun Han]

The globalists will be spitting feathers. Well done to the government in identifying and getting rid of this high profile remainer mole. I expect some of the brexit leaks have been tracked back to his office.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

As stated on another thread, the number of wise men who genuinely support Brexit is becoming diminishingly small. I wonder why that is the case?

 

Look, there's no doubt that leave won the referendum and therefore we will leave. That does not make it the correct decision and the lack of wise men supporting Brexit seems to support that.

 

I am sure it has nothing to do with intelligence, or education, or relevant experience ?

 

What we we need is a team of negotiators with no university education particularly Oxbridge. We don't want experts and certainly not civil servants.  We want a team of real Englishmen with St George's cross vests. The types who have no historical knowledge but know what's RIGHT by reading The Mail or The Express.....

 

"And we will build Jerusalem in England's Green and Pleasant Land"

 

No Elgar please; too much pomp...

Blimey, you've had your head in that How To Call People Stuipid thesaurus a fair bit today, havent you?

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The up to 10 years was to reach a trade deal, and is the consensus of the other 27 EU members. The ambassador was relaying other EU members views.

 

Which is wrong! That is why I said it is all fear tactics.

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-proc-article-50.shtml

 

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

                                                   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michel Barnier, has said the terms need to be agreed by October 2018 in time to be ratified before the next European parliament elections and that "cherry-picking" is not an option for Britain.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/europe/201612061048224654-brexit-may-barnier-juncker/

[dunroaming]

27 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

 

Which is wrong! That is why I said it is all fear tactics.

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-proc-article-50.shtml

 

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

                                                   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michel Barnier, has said the terms need to be agreed by October 2018 in time to be ratified before the next European parliament elections and that "cherry-picking" is not an option for Britain.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/europe/201612061048224654-brexit-may-barnier-juncker/

 

There is no argument that the Brexit divorce will take no longer than two years to complete.  In fact the EU were pushing for closure within eighteen months.  As  quoted from Lawyers For Britain

 

"But the bottom line is that even if an agreement could not be reached, the UK would cease to be subject to the EU treaties and would become a free and independent State at the end of the 2 year period from the day when the UK gives its notice under Article 50(2) which formally initiates the procedure."

 

However we are talking about trade agreements which are a different thing.  The one with Canada and the EU took 7 years and that was far more straightforward that the UK's.  Same sort of time scale for Hungary if I remember correctly.  The single most important thing about leaving the EU is the trade deal.
 

[i claudius]

He kept threatening to leave,don't let the door hit you on the way out dick head

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[Khun Han]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

The globalists will be spitting feathers.

 

One of the globalist minions has gone and shot his mouth off :

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/theresa-may-warned-not-force-brexit-oath-uks-144100162.html

[CharlieK]

18 hours ago, dunroaming said:

The single most important thing about leaving the EU is the trade deal.
 

 

Something the EU is incapable of doing! I am sure the UK could negotiate trade deals with other countries quicker than with the EU. besides with the EU there are conditions for that trade deal, like freedom of movement something Canada did not have to agree to. 

 

Better to just leave and negotiate with other countries first. The EU will be knocking on the door soon enough or it will collapse in on itself. 2017 is the make or break of the EU. IMO the UK is better out with the impending chaos that is about to unfold within the Euro countries.

[CharlieK]

21 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Good to see that now we are in 2017 wind is still in the sales of the TV posters.  Happy New Year everyone!

 

Ivan Rogers has done what he felt he had to do.  He was at loggerheads with May and the Brexiteers over their muddled thinking and unrealistic approach. As he would have been the main negotiator he was in an impossible position and would have inevitably been made the fall guy when it all went pear shaped.

 

I think just about everyone wants to get on with Brexit and let's hope May can trigger it when she has indicated.  It is now not about whether to go ahead with it, it is about the terms and conditions that are negotiated.  To go back now and "change our minds" would make us even more of a laughing stock.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-british-diplomats-brussels-eu-negotiate-deal-remain-peter-lilley-tory-mp-a7509286.html

 

Commenting in the wake of Sir Ivan Rogers resignation as Britain’s ambassador to the EU, Mr Lilley insisted “many diplomats, Eurocrats, are actually in the business of trying to negotiate a way back in, rather than committing to getting us out”.

[louse1953]

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

The "biased" BBC just had Farage spouting forth. You can see how desperate they are to find ANY cogent Brexiteers....

 

As for remain being a farce does it not worry you in the slightest that the leave crew seem increasingly to be just the numpties?

 

Where are your wise men? Would you recognise one? 

 

Brexit is making a laughing stock of the British......

Farage is a wrecker,not a fixer,he would have no good ideas.

[louse1953]

55 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

 

Something the EU is incapable of doing! I am sure the UK could negotiate trade deals with other countries quicker than with the EU. besides with the EU there are conditions for that trade deal, like freedom of movement something Canada did not have to agree to. 

 

Better to just leave and negotiate with other countries first. The EU will be knocking on the door soon enough or it will collapse in on itself. 2017 is the make or break of the EU. IMO the UK is better out with the impending chaos that is about to unfold within the Euro countries.

Out or in,doesn't matter,EU will affect UK.

[jpinx]

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

One of the globalist minions has gone and shot his mouth off :

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/theresa-may-warned-not-force-brexit-oath-uks-144100162.html

Isn't it great when it takes longer to cook up the remainers story then it does to fix the issue ? 

 

 

[jpinx]

3 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-british-diplomats-brussels-eu-negotiate-deal-remain-peter-lilley-tory-mp-a7509286.html

 

Commenting in the wake of Sir Ivan Rogers resignation as Britain’s ambassador to the EU, Mr Lilley insisted “many diplomats, Eurocrats, are actually in the business of trying to negotiate a way back in, rather than committing to getting us out”.

Peter Lilley is not the only one saying this -- it's common knowledge amongst the british eurocrats working in brussels -- because they know their jobs are on the line.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Peter Lilley is not the only one saying this -- it's common knowledge amongst the british eurocrats working in brussels -- because they know their jobs are on the line.

 

No. It's because they know that Brexit is not the best way forward. Difficult to fight for something that one does not really believe in if you are honourable man. As I say, you don't have many wise men who are truely on board.

[smedly]

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

No. It's because they know that Brexit is not the best way forward. Difficult to fight for something that one does not really believe in if you are honourable man. As I say, you don't have many wise men who are truely on board.

like it or not - the UK is leaving the EU, it turned  from being the workable EEC (which we voted for) into a huge failed power hungry undemocratic debacle - I actually don't think the brexit process will be completed before the EU implodes on itself - it is a massive failure, as for the single currency - that is also a massive failure, even the architect who was behind it has confirmed this, the Euro was never going to work for none industrial countries like Greece and some of the smaller members who would have been better retaining their own currency, the only two countries that the Euro is possibly working for are Germany and France and even then France is struggling

 

The EU is done and dusted, the best thing that could happen right now is to hit the big reset button and go back to the simple workable EEC were it all started and leave it at that

Edited January 5, 2017 by smedly

[lungbing]

If the answer is  Jean-Claude Juncker then it must be a bl00dy silly question.

[smedly]

3 minutes ago, lungbing said:

If the answer is  Jean-Claude Juncker then it must be a bl00dy silly question.

Juncker Tusk and Hollande who have openly threatened the British people

 

I rekon if another referendum was held right now there would be a massive swing to brexit

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, smedly said:

like it or not - the UK is leaving the EU, it turned  from being the workable EEC (which we voted for) into a huge failed power hungry undemocratic debacle - I actually don't think the brexit process will be completed before the EU implodes on itself - it is a massive failure, as for the single currency - that is also a massive failure, even the architect who was behind it has confirmed this, the Euro was never going to work for none industrial countries like Greece and some of the smaller members who would have been better retaining their own currency, the only two countries that the Euro is possibly working for are Germany and France and even then France is struggling

 

The EU is done and dusted, the best thing that could happen right now is to hit the big reset button and go back to the simple workable EEC were it all started and leave it at that

 

Once again, no, I don't like it but I accept it

 

Sadly the Brexiteers do not have many wise men on side. Does that not give you pause? 

 

I admire your confidence but draw comfort from the fact that I am VERY FAR from being alone in my opinions.

 

BTW, what gong is that?

Edited January 5, 2017 by Grouse

[jpinx]

The continuing reprise of all the wise men are against Brexit rings so hollow when anyone with half a brain will have accepted the vote and now has their efforts directed at ensuring UK gets the best deal possible, even if that is only by talking up the situation since the vote.  The flavour of sour grapes takes a lot of flushing away.  The PM has laid out the plan, there might be some procedural hoops to jump through, but hopefully not enough to delay the inevitable.  Civil servants are meant to be just that -- "servants" -- not politically motivated career bureaucrats.

 

Anyone who really knows people amongst the british eurocrats in Brussels will tell you that the attempts to turn Brexit around far exceed the work on the negotiations. 

[CharlieK]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Once again, no, I don't like it but I accept it

 

Sadly the Brexiteers do not have many wise men on side. Does that not give you pause? 

 

I admire your confidence but draw comfort from the fact that I am VERY FAR from being alone in my opinions.

 

BTW, what gong is that?

 

there can't be many wise men among the Eurocrats, or the EU probably wouldn't be in the mess it is in. 

[smedly]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

I admire your confidence but draw comfort from the fact that I am VERY FAR from being alone in my opinions.

well millions in the UK think you are wrong and so do I

 

 

I actually think you are trolling here - just posting nonsense for the sake of it, you have made your point - we read it ......................................

 

you do realise That Scotland cannot survive alone, go have  a Grouse and seriously contemplate exactly were stuff is at.........................and BTW I am not from England but I do know that the Scottish economy would collapse outside the UK - you could always jump into bed with Junker or Tusk - who the Scottish people elected to be in charge   right ?......if they let you - well they won't, you are smaller than Greece and look were they are lol.......................if I had my way Scotland would be expelled from the UK for extreme stupidity but then I have a lot of Scottish friends that have a brain and they would suffer at the hands the stupid few - if you love your EU so much why not get on the next boat and (deleted) off

Edited January 5, 2017 by smedly

[Laughing Gravy]

Today from the papers are all showing that the UK is at a high and the worlds top economy.

 

A smack in the face for those doomsday preppers and those TV posters who continually moan about the result. Now they have gone from wanting a second referendum to wanting to know what the government plans are. How ludicrous that is telling the other 27 countries what you want before you go into negotiation.

 

The constant support for the EU mystifies me as it hasn't worked and the UK has paid far more into it and got a poor return.  We were sold a lie and what the EU was for just simply wasn't and isn't an unelected boys club dictating what to do and how. if anyone even dares questions that just look at the process to leave that is being projected by the EU. Who would want to join that. The EU is dying and the constant remoan argument is that you are racist if you voted leave. Well me just clarify the EU is not a race. it would be like me saying those who voted remain are unpatriotic. I would not because it isn't true. I would argue that it is undemocratic to want to stay in the EU.

 

The former UK ambassador was crap. Simple. Just look at the deal he and Cameron came back with before the referendum, if you can call it a deal. So many establishment and elite are going to be getting kicked off the gravy train when the UK does leave.

 

So now all these newspapers and economists who predicted the financial meltdown after Brexit are now admitting the end of the world was wrong and in fact the UK is doing very well. The only people I don't see, are some TV posters here who continually go on and on about the state the UK is in, when clearly they are wrong.

 

Just maybe the 17 plus million people who voted out got it right.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-worlds-top-economy-after-brexit-rt7j9lccb  (Campaigned for Reamain.)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/bank-england-admits-michael-fish-moment-dire-brexit-predictions/ (Campaigned for Reamain.)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors (Campaigned for Reamain.)

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

there can't be many wise men among the Eurocrats, or the EU probably wouldn't be in the mess it is in. 

 

There are many things wrong with the EU some of which are serious and require urgent reform. Some Eurocrats as you term them are indeed self serving. Nevertheless, the EU is fundamentally "a good thing" and worth preserving. If one studies the FACTS and reads the history this is clear. The obfuscation by certain UK "newspapers" and particular demagogues confuses the real issues. On BALANCE I opted to remain with a view to forcing change from within.

 

However, the point I was making is that there are precious few wise men in the committed Brexiteer camp. Certainly there are those who accept who accept the referendum result, but real Brexiteers? I don't think so...

[Grouse]

15 hours ago, jpinx said:

The continuing reprise of all the wise men are against Brexit rings so hollow when anyone with half a brain will have accepted the vote and now has their efforts directed at ensuring UK gets the best deal possible, even if that is only by talking up the situation since the vote.  The flavour of sour grapes takes a lot of flushing away.  The PM has laid out the plan, there might be some procedural hoops to jump through, but hopefully not enough to delay the inevitable.  Civil servants are meant to be just that -- "servants" -- not politically motivated career bureaucrats.

 

Anyone who really knows people amongst the british eurocrats in Brussels will tell you that the attempts to turn Brexit around far exceed the work on the negotiations. 

 

The problem is that the wise, by definition, have a fully functioning brain, not half of one ?

 

Faced with having to implement a duff decision is bound to be problematic 

 

AGAIN does it not give you pause that there are not enough wise men available to the Brexit camp to field A tiddlywinks team?

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

well millions in the UK think you are wrong and so do I

 

 

I actually think you are trolling here - just posting nonsense for the sake of it, you have made your point - we read it ......................................

 

you do realise That Scotland cannot survive alone, go have  a Grouse and seriously contemplate exactly were stuff is at.........................and BTW I am not from England but I do know that the Scottish economy would collapse outside the UK - you could always jump into bed with Junker or Tusk - who the Scottish people elected to be in charge   right ?......if they let you - well they won't, you are smaller than Greece and look were they are lol.......................if I had my way Scotland would be expelled from the UK for extreme stupidity but then I have a lot of Scottish friends that have a brain and they would suffer at the hands the stupid few - if you love your EU so much why not get on the next boat and (deleted) off

 

Your unpleasantness has no place here. You are reported.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Today from the papers are all showing that the UK is at a high and the worlds top economy.

 

A smack in the face for those doomsday preppers and those TV posters who continually moan about the result. Now they have gone from wanting a second referendum to wanting to know what the government plans are. How ludicrous that is telling the other 27 countries what you want before you go into negotiation.

 

The constant support for the EU mystifies me as it hasn't worked and the UK has paid far more into it and got a poor return.  We were sold a lie and what the EU was for just simply wasn't and isn't an unelected boys club dictating what to do and how. if anyone even dares questions that just look at the process to leave that is being projected by the EU. Who would want to join that. The EU is dying and the constant remoan argument is that you are racist if you voted leave. Well me just clarify the EU is not a race. it would be like me saying those who voted remain are unpatriotic. I would not because it isn't true. I would argue that it is undemocratic to want to stay in the EU.

 

The former UK ambassador was crap. Simple. Just look at the deal he and Cameron came back with before the referendum, if you can call it a deal. So many establishment and elite are going to be getting kicked off the gravy train when the UK does leave.

 

So now all these newspapers and economists who predicted the financial meltdown after Brexit are now admitting the end of the world was wrong and in fact the UK is doing very well. The only people I don't see, are some TV posters here who continually go on and on about the state the UK is in, when clearly they are wrong.

 

Just maybe the 17 plus million people who voted out got it right.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/britain-has-worlds-top-economy-after-brexit-rt7j9lccb  (Campaigned for Reamain.)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/bank-england-admits-michael-fish-moment-dire-brexit-predictions/ (Campaigned for Reamain.)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors (Campaigned for Reamain.)

 

Yes, the UK economy is holding up remarkably well and that's very encouraging. I suspect that it's an issue of timing though. The Guardian was pro remain. The telegraph was pro leave. The Times was pro whatever Murdoch wanted on the day ?.

[jpinx]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

well millions in the UK think you are wrong and so do I

 

 

I actually think you are trolling here - just posting nonsense for the sake of it, you have made your point - we read it ......................................

 

you do realise That Scotland cannot survive alone, go have  a Grouse and seriously contemplate exactly were stuff is at.........................and BTW I am not from England but I do know that the Scottish economy would collapse outside the UK - you could always jump into bed with Junker or Tusk - who the Scottish people elected to be in charge   right ?......if they let you - well they won't, you are smaller than Greece and look were they are lol.......................if I had my way Scotland would be expelled from the UK for extreme stupidity but then I have a lot of Scottish friends that have a brain and they would suffer at the hands the stupid few - if you love your EU so much why not get on the next boat and (deleted) off

Well said -- last time I told him how unpleasant his posts were I got a holiday, and he continued with his diatribes about posters intelligence, education, social standing, etc, etc !  haha!!  The truth is that the pro-remain camp are actually out of cogent arguments and resort to trolling with abusive and derogatory commentary based on their biased opinions of self-importance.  There is NO reason to not get behind TM and the negotiating team with constructive commentary about how things could be worked out with the EU bureaurocratic mafia.  The recent very quick replacement of the EU ambassador was a good example of just how easy it is to get on with the job if everyone has a positive outlook.  ThaiVisa is a fun talking shop, but not likely to have any significant impact on government policy -- thank goodness -- but there is NO room for high-handed, holier-than-thou posters to express their inadequacies in such a perverted way in here. 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

The problem is that the wise, by definition, have a fully functioning brain, not half of one ?

 

Faced with having to implement a duff decision is bound to be problematic 

 

AGAIN does it not give you pause that there are not enough wise men available to the Brexit camp to field A tiddlywinks team?

what you are effectively saying is that people who supported leave are "stupid" only have "half a brain" and spend their days playing childrens games

 

 

well we all bend over to your superior intellect, now where did I put my SNAKES and ladders

 

Oh and if you are considering a holiday any time soon may I recommend Greece where you will pay 10euro for a pint of beer which means you can have 3 a day cos you're only allowed 30 euros a day from an atm, is that the sort of future you want for Scotland - I vote "YES"

[CharlieK]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

The problem is that the wise, by definition, have a fully functioning brain, not half of one ?

 

Faced with having to implement a duff decision is bound to be problematic 

 

AGAIN does it not give you pause that there are not enough wise men available to the Brexit camp to field A tiddlywinks team?

 

your just worried the EU don't want Scotland in the EU without England, you could go and live there among the wise men who have shown what a great job they have done with the EU and the Euro. 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Yes, the UK economy is holding up remarkably well and that's very encouraging. I suspect that it's an issue of timing though. The Guardian was pro remain. The telegraph was pro leave. The Times was pro whatever Murdoch wanted on the day ?.

No the Times was pro remain. The Sunday Times was leave as was the Sunday Telegraph. clarifies it here. Anyway the point was that these papers have now admitted they were wrong.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-which-papers-are-backing-brexit-and-remain-a7089876.html

 

I am glad you find that the economy was encouraging. A bit different than before the referendum.