"We're not fleecing customers - it's just market forces" say budget airlines

[chiang mai]

55 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Yep! I do think I get it. Are you trying to say that if you buy a virtual seat instead of a real one, then you are not sure to get on the plane with a basically fake ticket?
Sounds like you should consider talking about buses instead. There people often stand, even if it´s not within regulations.

However, the post you answered was not smart over the top either. It´s true that it can never be over 100 percent, but that is totally regarding to where the airline set their individual percentage based on how many seats they need to be able to reach their goal regarding costs and ticket price.

 

The formulae looks something like this: the plane has 350 seats, the airline sells 367 (105%) seats at which point the flight is declared full. By the time of departure, between 8 and 10 passengers will have cancelled at the last minute or been declared "no show", that leaves the airline to compensate around 7 passengers who get bumped. The alternative to the all of that is the airline sells 350 seats and the plane departs with only 333 seats occupied and the ensuing loss of revenue.

 

If you fly for enough years you'll get bumped, you'll also find yourself being one of two passengers holding boarding passes for the same seat, the reason is the above.

 

Are you there yet?

Edited January 11, 2017 by chiang mai

[mtls2005]

Inventory management for a perishable commodity like an airline seat is very, very complex. I sort of doubt that most LCCs utilize much in the way of sophisticated IM and over-sell, given all of the limitations?

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Inventory management for a perishable commodity like an airline seat is very, very complex. I sort of doubt that most LCCs utilize much in the way of sophisticated IM and over-sell, given all of the limitations?

 

The second Mrs CM worked for BA reservations near Heathrow and later check in at T4/T5 for many many years, prior to that she worked for Delta in Miami. The practise I describe is very very common amongst all airlines and has been so for forty years or more - why else do you think the focus has been on passenger compensation so heavily and for so long, it's because sometimes that 105% becomes 107% meaning more and more people are impacted in order to achieve targets.

[mtls2005]

I am fully aware of cursory IM/oversell practices with legacy airlines..

 

My point was that LCCs do not have the means, history or experience to practice much in the way of IM, short of initial fare-bucket allotments by route/season, nor can they compensate or accommodate IDB/VDB situations.

[ThaidaGwaii]

You folks should come to Canada if you want some good fleecing from regional airlines...

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, mtls2005 said:

I am fully aware of cursory IM/oversell practices with legacy airlines..

 

My point was that LCCs do not have the means, history or experience to practice much in the way of IM, short of initial fare-bucket allotments by route/season, nor can they compensate or accommodate IDB/VDB situations.

 

I disagree, Thai Smile is a budget carrier and they use the Thai airways reservation system. Air Asia is a discount carrier and they have their own substantial system support and management acquired from other major carriers, and so on - giving discounts on future travel dates costs the airline very little.

[Tony45]

Come to Western Australia and be fleeced and price gouged by local airlines.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[mtls2005]

Thai Smile is a budget carrier and they use the Thai airways reservation system.

 

Now there's a scary thought.

 

Again, without a way to manage IDB/VDB overselling by LCCs on pt-pt routes is limited, or so I am told, to very high-capacity routes, with a known, good history, like BKK/DMK-CNX.

 

LCCs make most of their net profit on add-ons.

[reflectionx]

Come on guys, there is no conspiracy here. The prices are set automatically and asthe seats gets filled up, the prices go up.

 

This is valid for all airlines, not only low cost. Same thing happened during the Alberta wild fires with AirCanada.

 

Depending on the destination and time ofnthe year, there is a sweet spot for booking tickets. For example for last minute deals in all inclusive in the Caribbean I found 2 weeks to be the best. For my Christmass travel to Thailand this year from the East Coast I had booked in March and paid only 900 CAD (23 000 baht). Should I had waited til October, it would have been double that price

[Mordacai]

"  Low cost airlines have responded to accusations ........"  
and
"They said they had received no complaints from the public about their prices "

 

Hmmm.....seems to be something contradictory here.

 

[Get Real]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

The formulae looks something like this: the plane has 350 seats, the airline sells 367 (105%) seats at which point the flight is declared full. By the time of departure, between 8 and 10 passengers will have cancelled at the last minute or been declared "no show", that leaves the airline to compensate around 7 passengers who get bumped. The alternative to the all of that is the airline sells 350 seats and the plane departs with only 333 seats occupied and the ensuing loss of revenue.

 

If you fly for enough years you'll get bumped, you'll also find yourself being one of two passengers holding boarding passes for the same seat, the reason is the above.

 

Are you there yet?

Nice try! No not there yet, and I have been residing in Thailand for 16 years and travelling a lot too. At the same time travelling to aprox 30-40 other countries on vacations before I choosed Thailand.
You must be the the lucky one. Buy a lottery ticket. Maby you fins to of the same too. LOL

[paulbj2]

23 hours ago, SunsetT said:

.....Soon to merge with Ryanair.....

 

 

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, Get Real said:

Nice try! No not there yet, and I have been residing in Thailand for 16 years and travelling a lot too. At the same time travelling to aprox 30-40 other countries on vacations before I choosed Thailand.
You must be the the lucky one. Buy a lottery ticket. Maby you fins to of the same too. LOL

 

Ok well you were the one who denied the practise existed and was being a smart arse, if at this stage you don't buy that it does and you wanna keep on being a smart arse, I can't help you. Out.

[Get Real]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Ok well you were the one who denied the practise existed and was being a smart arse, if at this stage you don't buy that it does and you wanna keep on being a smart arse, I can't help you. Out.

smart arse seem to be the new popular phrase in this forum.

[paulbj2]

On 10/01/2017 at 1:43 PM, Thaidream said:

A computer is a machine controlled by a person. I cannot tell you the number of times that a company has told me they cannot do anything about an issue because 'the computer will not allow it".  Absolute BS.  I understand very well how the airline systems work - however- with a human intervention- the prices at this time can be stabilized at a much lower level to assist people fleeing the flooding to reach their destination. The airlines can bring in more equipment to also ease the backlog. No one is asking for free seats- just a little compassionate pricing. It's called being a good corporate citizen,

 

I don't know what planet you live on! I used to design these sorts of systems and the scenario goes.

 

Management: "Great! Your automated system is up and running and works like a charm"

Me:   "Well, yes the core of the system is tested and running just fine but before we go live, we still need to do some work on manual override and other support and safety systems"

Management:   "No, no, no! Look we go live straight away and we keep the old system that you are replacing in working condition so that if anything goes wrong, we simply revert to the old system, OK" 

Me:   "...but it's not as simple as that..."

Management: "Look I am already late for another really important meeting! Let's pencil in next Monday for a full live roll-out of your new system. It's brilliant; the top management is really pleased with what you have achieved"

Me: "MONDAY!!! You have to be joking"

Management: "Don't start getting negative. I know you can do it! Go for it Tiger! Must go - really late"

 

A month after "go-live" the rest of the budget is pulled and so the manual override and and other support systems never get written. A year later the old system is quietly shut down and the staff who used to run it are reassigned or made redundant so there is no way back!

 

That's much more like the reality.

[todlad]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:24 PM, exemplary21 said:

 

 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 8:24 PM, exemplary21 said:

No-one bothered to say good-bye?

 

Poor precious...!

 

 

 

So, there are times when you've seen 2% of passengers sitting in the aisles...?

 

...and sorry, you clearly do not understand the "hypothesis" of supply and demand: when you can already sell every seat is exactly when you would increase prices.

 

Oops! I missed this ...

 

Saying goodbye ... hardly being precious is it? Unless you fail to understand the concept of customer service.

 

If i don't understand supply and demand the way you do, explain to me why prices are not infinite in size according to your thought process.

 

100 +/- 1 to 2% gave rise to a smart Alek remark from you. Never heard of overbooking?

 

Poor lamb.

[bokningar]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:32 AM, russius said:

It is treated as a luxury, when it is really a service licensed by the government by giving an airline a monopoly on routes.

So what route has a Airline monopoly?

Give me at least 3.

Or I will be incline to think no other airline would like to be there.

[sambum]

21 hours ago, bokningar said:

So what route has a Airline monopoly?

Give me at least 3.

Or I will be incline to think no other airline would like to be there.

Why do you need 3?

 

As already stated, the route from Bangkok to Koh Samui is a Airline monopoly by Bangkok Air, which explains the ridiculously high prices in comparison to journeys of a similar distance. 

 

[bokningar]

18 hours ago, sambum said:

On 1/18/2017 at 8:03 PM, bokningar said:

So what route has a Airline monopoly?

Give me at least 3.

Or I will be incline to think no other airline would like to be there.

Why do you need 3?

 

As already stated, the route from Bangkok to Koh Samui is a Airline monopoly by Bangkok Air, which explains the ridiculously high prices in comparison to journeys of a similar distance. 

 

 

Check out   (TG281)  and   (TG287)  

The airport is privat, owner Bangkok air  but still some Thai air flights. 

[sambum]

Sorry - not quite a monopoly, but might as well be!

 

Checked out the price for Thai Air TG 281 for next Friday (Random check - only 1 flight that day!) :-

 

One way flight from B/K to Koh Samui - 6460 baht (Sorry - just gone up to 6985 baht!) and to be honest I don't know if there are any extras on top of that (Airport Taxes etc)

 

I  flew from Surat Thani to B/K on Thai Air on 27 Dec 2016 returning on 09 Jan 2017 (Peak Holiday Time) and the price was less than 5000 baht (about 4900 baht) inc all taxes etc.

 

So now, in future, I will not be using Bangkok Airways OR Thai Airways to get off Koh Samui!!!

 

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by sambum
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