TM30 and/or Certificate of Residence?

[juergengeiger59]

I arrived in Thailand a few days ago with a Non-Immigrant O-M visa allowing me to enter Thailand unlimited times within one year. Of course I have to leave always after 90 days receiving a new 90 days visa on each new entry. Furthermore, I have rented a condo in Phuket for 1 year and have the signed „Condominium Unit Lease Agreement“. As this will be my one and only residence I went to the immigration on the next day after arrival asking for a „Certificate of Residence“.

A guy at the immigration office in Patong gave me a piece of paper stating that I need to provide the following documents:

1.       Copy of owner ID card

2.       Copy of registration for house

3.       Copy of contract for rent

4.       Copy of passport and visa

5.       2 passport fotos

Number 1 and 2 is giving me a headache as the owner either doesn´t understand what to deliver exactly or for any reason doesn´t want to provide it. My understanding is that I don´t necessarily need the Certficate of Residence immediately and could also get from the embassy. But by now I haven´t even filled out an immigration form (I guess that´s called 90 day report or TM30) because I´ve always been sent away being asked to provide the above mentioned documents.

As it might take more time to get these things together for my Certificate of Residence or go to the embassy (which is only in Bkk I assume), I need some advice on what I should do or have to do, in order to not getting in trouble with immigration or police as by now (after 3 days) I still haven´t filled out any immigration form stating my arrival and location of stay.

Thanks in advance for any advice

[Maestro]

If your landlord's knowledge of English is insufficient to understand the text of the first two requirements on the list you got from the immigration office, print out and give him the following translation:

 

ID card =  บัตรประจำตัว

registration for house =  สําเนาทะเบียนบ้าน

 

If your landlord remains disinclined to give you the necessary document copies, call the government hotline 1111 for advice. They may suggest that you go the police, who in turn will call the landlord to remind him of this obligation on his part.

 

[juergengeiger59]

11 hours ago, Maestro said:

If your landlord's knowledge of English is insufficient to understand the text of the first two requirements on the list you got from the immigration office, print out and give him the following translation:

 

ID card =  บัตรประจำตัว

registration for house =  สําเนาทะเบียนบ้าน

 

If your landlord remains disinclined to give you the necessary document copies, call the government hotline 1111 for advice. They may suggest that you go the police, who in turn will call the landlord to remind him of this obligation on his part.

 

Excellent! Thanks a lot. I will try that! :)

[Lovethailandelite]

13 minutes ago, juergengeiger59 said:

Excellent! Thanks a lot. I will try that! :)

Be aware that should the Police become involved it may well change the relationship between you and your landlord. That's your call on that though.

[juergengeiger59]

Be aware that should the Police become involved it may well change the relationship between you and your landlord. That's your call on that though.

Thanks, but I am not even in contact directly with the landlord (owner of the condo). I have a rental contract with The Deck, a condominium with 270 units of built and owned by Sansiri. Of course they sell the condos to private owners who want to create a return on their investment. The person I am in touch with from The Deck replied to me the following after I had forwarded her your text:

"Landlord totally understood but we have internal issue that have to clarify in which party will give you all compulsory document. Quite complicated to explain. I will work it out on Monday. Weekend we are off."

I have to add that before renting the condo I had asked the agent who is the owner and she told me The Deck is the owner. Now after signing the lease agreement I find out that it's owned by some thai lady. It looks like they are not sure now if the documents have to be provided by sansiri or by the private owner.

[jojothai]

I dont think that this is called a certificate of residence and presume that you mean the notification of residence  of foreigners.

The Owner / Landlord is required to do the notification within 24 hours by way of a TM30.

This is something that has been required by the law a very long time, but is only recently being enforced through immigration.

There  is a lot of info online for you to read up on this.

eg

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/960761-notification-of-residence-fine-popular-thing/

http://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

http://donslifeinthailand.com/TM_28_TM_30.html

The landlord is liable for the fine (1600 to 2000 Baht)  if he has not notified.

However you still potentially get a problem if immigration want to see the receipt (eg at 90 day reporting). See the posts in Thai Visa.

 

If the deck have made  the rental contract then they may be liable for the fine, I am not sure.

If they are the managing agent then surely they must be responsible to notify on behalf of the owner. They can get a proxy from the owners. Businesses can do the notification online.

Seems like they are the ones not following the law. They should know what to do.

The response you got seems to indicate they are now looking at it.

You need to follow up with them. They should resolve how to get the notification done on behalf of the landlord, not yourself.

This will affect them many times over with any other foreigners renting.

 

Do not get the police involved at all.

 

 

 

[pby92]

If it's a big condominium may be the deck can do TM 30 same as hotel does.

Edited January 14, 2017 by pby92

[Lovethailandelite]

5 hours ago, juergengeiger59 said:

Thanks, but I am not even in contact directly with the landlord (owner of the condo). I have a rental contract with The Deck, a condominium with 270 units of built and owned by Sansiri. Of course they sell the condos to private owners who want to create a return on their investment. The person I am in touch with from The Deck replied to me the following after I had forwarded her your text:

"Landlord totally understood but we have internal issue that have to clarify in which party will give you all compulsory document. Quite complicated to explain. I will work it out on Monday. Weekend we are off."

I have to add that before renting the condo I had asked the agent who is the owner and she told me The Deck is the owner. Now after signing the lease agreement I find out that it's owned by some thai lady. It looks like they are not sure now if the documents have to be provided by sansiri or by the private owner.

If it is a TM30 Immigration are looking for, you as the 'Housemaster' can do it yourself. You will need the TM30 form, your passport, TM6 landing card and a your rental agreement. You may need a letter from your condo office to state that you indeed do reside there as they may want a copy of the first page of Blue housebook which you won't have. Some I/O want it, some don't.

[juergengeiger59]

1 hour ago, pby92 said:

If it's a big condominium may be the deck can do TM 30 same as hotel does.

That´s what I expected also, but when I asked the lady acting on behalf of the deck she replied "That´s not to my knowledge". She will have to contact their lawyer on Monday.

[juergengeiger59]

5 hours ago, jojothai said:

I dont think that this is called a certificate of residence and presume that you mean the notification of residence  of foreigners.

The Owner / Landlord is required to do the notification within 24 hours by way of a TM30.

This is something that has been required by the law a very long time, but is only recently being enforced through immigration.

There  is a lot of info online for you to read up on this.

eg

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/960761-notification-of-residence-fine-popular-thing/

http://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

http://donslifeinthailand.com/TM_28_TM_30.html

 

The landlord is liable for the fine (1600 to 2000 Baht)  if he has not notified.

However you still potentially get a problem if immigration want to see the receipt (eg at 90 day reporting). See the posts in Thai Visa.

 

If the deck have made  the rental contract then they may be liable for the fine, I am not sure.

If they are the managing agent then surely they must be responsible to notify on behalf of the owner. They can get a proxy from the owners. Businesses can do the notification online.

Seems like they are the ones not following the law. They should know what to do.

The response you got seems to indicate they are now looking at it.

You need to follow up with them. They should resolve how to get the notification done on behalf of the landlord, not yourself.

This will affect them many times over with any other foreigners renting.

 

Do not get the police involved at all.

 

 

 

There is definitely a thing called Residence Certificate (see file attached and following link)

https://www.keyvisathailand.com/thai-residence-certificate/

Primarily I will need it when I sign off in my current country of residence which is Switzerland to prove that I have made a new residence in a non-EU/EFTA country. In this case and with this proof of residence I can have my pension plan paid out before I have reached the official retirement age which is 65 there.

The second thing is the TM30 which I have learned now has to be filed by the owner/landlord. So actually not really my business.

What is still not sure about is whether in addition to the residence certificate and the TM30 do I have to fill out a TM28 form (I guess that´s the 90-day reporting form) and if yes, do I have to do that every time I re-enter Thailand?

Thanks to all your valuable support and advice!

[quadperfect]

I am also waiting for same thing i am in a sansari building in phuket.

Youre girl might be my girl . My girls name jen for short.does yours have same 3 initials in her name. I dont want to say her full name to protect the innocent.

Jen seems very responsible i am sure it will be worked out shortly.

Police really bad idea for anything at all in thailand. Tourist police just as bad.

 

 

 

[wpcoe]

When I encountered a situation very similar to the OP's -- i.e. land lady didn't understand what I wanted and why -- I called her from the Immigrations Office and handed the phone an Immigrations Officer to talk to her and they sorted it out.

[dentonian]

In order to obtain a certificate of residence Immigration need to detail all your information on their database, which includes your personal details, your landlords details and your address.

 

When you entered Thailand I assume you entered your Condo address on your TM6 arrival departure card?

If so, you have already reported your place of dwelling.

A TM28 notifies a 'change of address' in the event you ever moved. (No need for you to file this)

A TM30 must be filed by the person regarded as the 'housemaster' (The person responsible), which in your case could be the owner or the Condo management/agent.

A TM47 is only filed when making 90 day reports. As you have a Non Imm O ME Visa, the conditions are that you must exit/re-enter Thailand in order to obtain a new 90 day permission to stay. You cannot do this process at local Immigration.

 

In order to understand some of these forms, you can download and view them from Immigrations website, which may help you to understand exactly what others are talking about.

http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

[jojothai]

21 hours ago, juergengeiger59 said:

There is definitely a thing called Residence Certificate (see file attached and following link)

 

New to me,  not had this. Thanks for clarifying

[Maestro]

On 1/14/2017 at 0:45 PM, juergengeiger59 said:

There is definitely a thing called Residence Certificate (see file attached and following link)

https://www.keyvisathailand.com/thai-residence-certificate/

Primarily I will need it when I sign off in my current country of residence which is Switzerland to prove that I have made a new residence in a non-EU/EFTA country.  In this case and with this proof of residence I can have my pension plan paid out before I have reached the official retirement age which is 65 there...

 

I didn't need a Thai residence certificate for this purpose. I went to the municipal office with my Swiss passport and informed them of my departure from the municipality to take up residence in 'Thailand. The official filled out the relevant form, I signed it, and I was given a written confirmation that I was being deleted from the municipality's register of residents and taxpayers as from the date I indicated for the reason that I was taking up residence in Thailand.

[juergengeiger59]

I am also waiting for same thing i am in a sansari building in phuket.
Youre girl might be my girl . My girls name jen for short.does yours have same 3 initials in her name. I dont want to say her full name to protect the innocent.
Jen seems very responsible i am sure it will be worked out shortly.
Police really bad idea for anything at all in thailand. Tourist police just as bad.
 
 
 

Thanks, no her short name starts with an N. She's really wiling to help but doesn't seem to have a clue about visa regulations. Anyway, she said she's gonna sort it out with their legal dep on monday.


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[juergengeiger59]

 
I didn't need a Thai residence certificate for this purpose. I went to the municipal office with my Swiss passport and informed them of my departure from the municipality to take up residence in 'Thailand. The official filled out the relevant form, I signed it, and I was given a written confirmation that I was being deleted from the municipality's register of residents and taxpayers as from the date I indicated for the reason that I was taking up residence in Thailand.

Sounds good! I will do that for sure when I sign off at the municipality! Can't hurt though to have a proof from the Thai officials also. Thanks a lot! :)


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[Maestro]

12 minutes ago, juergengeiger59 said:

Sounds good! I will do that for sure when I sign off at the municipality! Can't hurt though to have a proof from the Thai officials also. Thanks a lot! :)


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Another thing. After your arrival in Thailand for the purpose of taking residence in this country you can register with the Swiss Embassy and I believe they give you a written confirmation, free of charge if I remember correctly.

 

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/thailand/en/home/services/registration-change-address/registration.html

https://www.eda.admin.ch/content/dam/countries/eda-all/en/Anmeldeformular_CH_Rep_en_4.pdf

[juergengeiger59]

Thank, I heard about that. I am not a Swiss citizen though. I am German but been living in Switzerland for the last 20 years. Not sure if the German Embassy does the same. :)


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[4evermaat]

Q@

[DrDweeb]

I am new here on Non-Immigrant O, Multi-entry – retirement visa I guess, first arrival on that Visa in Phuket 14 days ago.

 

I will be travelling in/out of Bangkok on a regular basis, and doubt that I will exceed 90 days in Thailand very often. I will be out again in next week in fact.

 

I own 2 condos, 1 in Bangkok and a holiday condo on Phuket. I have owned and stayed in them for 10 years, but never more than 30 days. I will mostly in Bangkok though.

 

It seems I need to get/do the following things.

 

1: Yellow Book (tabian baan?)
2: Certificate of Residence (need this for back home)
3: Lodge a TM28 and TM30

 

Which places do I physically go to get these in Bangkok?
What will I need? I assume some photos, chanod to my condo in Bangkok, passport and TM6 (and copies of the relevant pages) - Anything else?

 

I would like to get a Pink Card and Drivers Licence as well, but these are secondary.

[wobalt]

Thank, I heard about that. I am not a Swiss citizen though. I am German but been living in Switzerland for the last 20 years. Not sure if the German Embassy does the same. :)


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They do. You might got even your new residency stamped into your passport

[dentonian]

5 hours ago, DrDweeb said:

I am new here on Non-Immigrant O, Multi-entry – retirement visa I guess, first arrival on that Visa in Phuket 14 days ago.

 

I will be travelling in/out of Bangkok on a regular basis, and doubt that I will exceed 90 days in Thailand very often. I will be out again in next week in fact.

 

I own 2 condos, 1 in Bangkok and a holiday condo on Phuket. I have owned and stayed in them for 10 years, but never more than 30 days. I will mostly in Bangkok though.

 

It seems I need to get/do the following things.

 

1: Yellow Book (tabian baan?)
2: Certificate of Residence (need this for back home)
3: Lodge a TM28 and TM30

 

Which places do I physically go to get these in Bangkok?
What will I need? I assume some photos, chanod to my condo in Bangkok, passport and TM6 (and copies of the relevant pages) - Anything else?

 

I would like to get a Pink Card and Drivers Licence as well, but these are secondary.

 

Firstly, which address did you put on your TM6 arrival/departure card.

What Country are you from and why do you need a Certificate of Residence for back home?

 

You cannot stay in Thailand for more than 90 days on a Non Imm O ME Visa.

You can download any forms you'll need from here: http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

You only file a TM28 if you move to a new permanent address.

You can only register at one of the addresses, then you must use the Amphur and Immigration office in that area to obtain the other documents your seeking..............so you'll have to choose.

[DrDweeb]

37 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

Firstly, which address did you put on your TM6 arrival/departure card.

What Country are you from and why do you need a Certificate of Residence for back home?

 

You cannot stay in Thailand for more than 90 days on a Non Imm O ME Visa.

You can download any forms you'll need from here: http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

You only file a TM28 if you move to a new permanent address.

You can only register at one of the addresses, then you must use the Amphur and Immigration office in that area to obtain the other documents your seeking..............so you'll have to choose.

1: My own address, the same one I have been writing for almost a decade.

2: Not relevant, I just need it in my stack of papers, as well as fiscal residence sometime later this year when >183 days are up

 

https://www.keyvisathailand.com/thai-residence-certificate/

 

This is not where I am, but I will try this set of docs for a start.

 

 

[dentonian]

8 minutes ago, DrDweeb said:

1: My own address, the same one I have been writing for almost a decade.

2: Not relevant, I just need it in my stack of papers, as well as fiscal residence sometime later this year when >183 days are up

 

https://www.keyvisathailand.com/thai-residence-certificate/

 

This is not where I am, but I will try this set of docs for a start.

 

 

 

1.  Would that be Bangkok, Phuket or back in your home Country???

2. A certificate of residence is valid 30 days, thereafter it's useless.

[DrDweeb]

1: There is only space for "Address in Thailand" - despite landing in Phuket, I put down my Bangkok address.

2: For my purposes it only needs to be valid on the day it is issued - and to show to the Amphur if I go the route of getting a Yellow Book and update my Blue Book as the Head of Houshold. Unless it has "Expires in 30 days" written on it, it is unlikely a foreign government will be too bothered about its expiry. In any case, my use for it will have passed withing 30 days

[juergengeiger59]

In order to obtain a certificate of residence Immigration need to detail all your information on their database, which includes your personal details, your landlords details and your address.
 
When you entered Thailand I assume you entered your Condo address on your TM6 arrival departure card?
If so, you have already reported your place of dwelling.
A TM28 notifies a 'change of address' in the event you ever moved. (No need for you to file this)
A TM30 must be filed by the person regarded as the 'housemaster' (The person responsible), which in your case could be the owner or the Condo management/agent.
A TM47 is only filed when making 90 day reports. As you have a Non Imm O ME Visa, the conditions are that you must exit/re-enter Thailand in order to obtain a new 90 day permission to stay. You cannot do this process at local Immigration.
 
In order to understand some of these forms, you can download and view them from Immigrations website, which may help you to understand exactly what others are talking about.
http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

Thank you, I have to admit that at the time writing this I was still a bit confused about all the visa and TM stuff. Now I know that the TM30 has to be done by the landlord and TM28 and TM47 is not relevant. When I arrived in Thailand I stayed in a hotel in Bkk the first 3 nights and that's the address I had entered on the arrival card.


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[dentonian]

12 hours ago, juergengeiger59 said:

When I arrived in Thailand I stayed in a hotel in Bkk the first 3 nights and that's the address I had entered on the arrival card.


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In that case you should file a TM28, as the address you registered with Immigration will change when you move into your Condo.

[dentonian]

13 hours ago, DrDweeb said:

1: There is only space for "Address in Thailand" - despite landing in Phuket, I put down my Bangkok address.

2: For my purposes it only needs to be valid on the day it is issued - and to show to the Amphur if I go the route of getting a Yellow Book and update my Blue Book as the Head of Houshold. Unless it has "Expires in 30 days" written on it, it is unlikely a foreign government will be too bothered about its expiry. In any case, my use for it will have passed withing 30 days

 

Thanks.

You, as a foreigner, cannot be named in the blue books as the 'housemaster'.

The house book does not prove ownership, only registration of address.

You can only be registered at one address, regardless of how many homes you may own.

 

If Bangkok will be your main residence then you will use CW Immigration to obtain your Certificate of Residence.

You can obtain a Yellow book from your local Amphur in BKK (in which you are named).

You can obtain a Driving Licence at any DLT offices.

 

The documents required may vary slightly from Government offices in different provinces, so better to check direct with them first, although members can supply a generalisation of what they had to supply.

You must obtain a Yellow Tabien Baan before you can obtain the pink Foreigners ID card. They can be issued at the same time.

[juergengeiger59]

 
In that case you should file a TM28, as the address you registered with Immigration will change when you move into your Condo.

Do I really? In the first 3 days the hotel in Bkk had to file a TM30 and after arrival in Phuket my landlord had to file the TM30. At the immigration in Phuket I already received a certificate of residence and confirmation of my new Phuket residence stapled into my passport. Isn't that enough?


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