SURVEY: Death Penalty -- Good or Bad?

[Keesters]

Killing as a penalty, where killing is often the crime committed. What a conundrum.

 

 

 

[madusa]

On 2017/1/14 at 9:24 PM, petermik said:

Try telling that to a family that has had their young daughter/son brutally sexually assaulted and murdered to satisfy someones sick lust........there have been numerous cases where the evidence is overwhelming and even the perpetrator  has admitted guilt....HANG them I say

I agreed. Imagine some poor countries keep feeding them, they should get them to do hard labour so money is not lost.  when enough work done to compensate the money spent on them then hang them, yes it seems cruel but compare to what they did it's  a favour you are doing them.

[Craig krup]

1) Wrongful convictions are the price of having any system of justice at all. The only way you avoid nobody ever being convicted is not to have a system.

2) Being executed for something I haven't done would be terrible. So is living in a society full of nutters who should have been executed for something they almost certainly have done. Netting one risk off against the other I'd prefer a bit of light hanging. 

3) The idea that you somehow resolve a wrongful conviction by letting someone out twenty years after you've convicted them is nonsense. The person you locked up is long gone, and all that's left is someone who looks a bit like them and is the product of twenty years wrongful incarceration. It is - as the great John Stuart Mill said - an effeminacy of the mind to imagine that somehow long jail sentences are less horrific than execution. 

 

Besides, the death penalty is 100% effective in preventing re-offending. 

[Craig krup]

14 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

 

another 'nutter' bites the dust? 

 

In the UK the standard for "insane" is the McNaughton standard. 1) Did you know the character of your act? Did you know what you were doing? Well, it's hard to perform any purposive act if you don't know what you're doing. You couldn't do something as volitional as stab someone without knowing the character of your act. 2) Did you know it was wrong? Did you know it was against the law? 

 

If you meet that standard you're guilty. Does anyone seriously believe that there are many crimes committed by people who don't know what they're doing and don't know that it's wrong? 

 

As the great philosopher WVO Quine said, people want to not punish the "insane". But they also want to claim that all conduct is the product of environment and genes. So if I take 100,000 baht to kill you then my genes and my environment must produce that crime just as reliably, effectively and inevitably as all of the actions of the supposedly insane. A complete chain of cause and effect exists in both cases. So hang them all. 

[BudRight]

This poll should be: Are you morally self-righteous?

 

A. Yes.

 

B. No.

 

Really I can't stand the yes crowd - the only thing stopping me from condemning them more harshly is I do not want to imitate their failings by judging others.

[SaintLouisBlues]

13 minutes ago, BudRight said:

This poll should be: Are you morally self-righteous?

A. Yes.

B. No.

It's no contest based on my reading of posts on TV generally

[BudRight]

It seems many of you are in favor of bringing back the Code of Hammurabi, the laws written upon stone tablets in ancient Babylon which famously state "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

 

I urge you to consider some of the other laws from the code of Hammurabi you'd be bringing back as well.

 

"If anyone is caught while committing a robbery, then s/he shall be put to death. "

 

"If a holy woman opens a tavern door or enters a tavern for a drink, she shall be burned to death"

 

"If an adopted son says to his adoptive father or mother: "You are not my father, or my mother," his tongue shall be cut off."

 

"If a son strikes his father, his hands shall be cut off."

 

If you meant to pick the laws you like and reject the others, then you are the criminal, since isn't that what a criminal does anyway?

Edited January 19, 2017 by BudRight

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, BudRight said:

This poll should be: Are you morally self-righteous?

 

A. Yes.

 

B. No.

 

Really I can't stand the yes crowd - the only thing stopping me from condemning them more harshly is I do not want to imitate their failings by judging others.

I think you are giving the phrase judging others a little bit too much latitude. Certainly you must agree that some judgements are necessary. However this topic is about sentencing.

 

And as for you bringing back the code of Hammurabi that is just hyperbole. Just because part of it is related to the subject doesn't mean it all is. There is no logic in that post.

[BudRight]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

I think you are giving the phrase judging others a little bit too much latitude. Certainly you must agree that some judgements are necessary. However this topic is about sentencing.

 

And as for you bringing back the code of Hammurabi that is just hyperbole. Just because part of it is related to the subject doesn't mean it all is. There is no logic in that post.

 

The point is that code of Hammurabi is barbaric - just like sentences that placate one's sense of vengeance. The continued existence of such punishments show that they don't work. 

[Pdaz]

Rapists, terrorists, murderers, violent offenders and habitual criminals cost the tax payer millions every year. Yet once released the majority offend again.

For the tettorists, murderers and rapists, immediate liquidation following a trial/appeal should be compulsory - No need to keep them on death row for years. Guilty = Goodbye.

As for the rest. Anyone who is found guilty of a serious or violent crime should face the death penalty if they continue to reoffend. Three strikes and your are dead.

The one resource the World has enough of is humankind. So there seems little point in preserving offenders lives. It has been proven that the kids of criminals often go on to be criminals themselves and that recidivism amongst violent offenders is high. We lack jail space or the funds to continue building more jails. So lets cull the prison population and then execute new murderers and violent criminals as they are found guilty.  Painful, public execution for society's worst may or may not be a deterrent but at least it would be cheaper than locking them up.

 

[canuckamuck]

You have no way of quantifying whether or not it works. I think speeding fines are a deterrent to speeding, but some people still speed. Maybe we should just throw out all the penalties since people still commit crimes. Maybe some hug therapy would be a good replacement.

 

[BudRight]

2 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

You have no way of quantifying whether or not it works. I think speeding fines are a deterrent to speeding, but some people still speed. Maybe we should just throw out all the penalties since people still commit crimes. Maybe some hug therapy would be a good replacement.

 

 

I'm against speeding penalties too.

 

Hug therapy? Hyperbole.

[Pdaz]

Just now, canuckamuck said:

You have no way of quantifying whether or not it works. I think speeding fines are a deterrent to speeding, but some people still speed. Maybe we should just throw out all the penalties since people still commit crimes. Maybe some hug therapy would be a good replacement.

 

 

The difference being is that, if I ignore the speed limit I get fined.. Then may or may not go on to re-offend.  

 

If I murder someone, get caught and then I'm executed I won't be able to re-offend.

 

The ultimate solution. 

[hawker9000]

6 minutes ago, BudRight said:

 

The point is that code of Hammurabi is barbaric - just like sentences that placate one's sense of vengeance. The continued existence of such punishments show that they don't work. 

 

This wells up from the depths of the rhetorically challenged with incredible frequency.  Mindless parroting must love company.  Anywho....  How's that exactly?   A murderer who's put to death is pretty certain to not murder anyone else...    Unless their appeals process drags on interminably, that is...      'Which MIGHT actually explain the mindlessness of the statement that the DP has no deterrent value (not that there's any way to objectively make this determination in the 1st place, funded "studies" with predetermined results notwithstanding.   'Would-be murderers don't honestly believe they'll ever be caught, tried, convicted, sentenced to death, and then actually executed.   And most of the time, they're right! 

 

One third of the time the murderer is never even identified nationwide in the U.S..   In the State of Illinois, only one third of the homicides are CLEARED!   In California, only about a half!

 

[BudRight]

I just want to point out I'm against murder while you people are endorsing it. You seem to think some people killing some people is okay - I do not.

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, BudRight said:

 

I'm against speeding penalties too.

 

Hug therapy? Hyperbole.

I would say you have just disqualified yourself from being taken seriously then.

 

 

[canuckamuck]

No victim no crime? But there are victims of speeding. Are you saying it's OK to be negligent with the lives of the public as long you don't crash?

You have completely assured all of us of your lack of credibility.

[piersbeckett]

In practice humans have always killed other humans; millions have been killed by other humans in the name of religion or in the name of defending a nation or in the name of the defense of a political view and continue so to do without punishment, legally. It looks to me like humans are in charge not a supernatural power and in that case all these humans divided into groups, countries, states, whatever, choose to have the death penalty or they don't. 

 

If I lived in society where I had the opportunity to vote in a referendum on the issue, not being a left-wing dreamer or superstitious religious, I think that a person properly tried and convicted of a crime as anti-social as, for example, murder and after affording that person the subsequent opportunity to appeal, I would give the judge the power in cases where sufficient evidence could be shown of a distinct and substantial danger to that or indeed any other society or to any person or persons within same, of handing down the death penalty.

[LannaGuy]

3 hours ago, BudRight said:

 

The point is that code of Hammurabi is barbaric - just like sentences that placate one's sense of vengeance. The continued existence of such punishments show that they don't work. 

 

what 'don't work'?  you think executing a child rapist/murderer doesn't 'work'?  it's one more scum of our planet. I don't care about 'it doesn't deter' it punishes!  

 

save me all the airy fairy kumbaya stuff some people are just evil and commit evil acts - take them out

[hawker9000]

21 hours ago, BudRight said:

I just want to point out I'm against murder while you people are endorsing it. You seem to think some people killing some people is okay - I do not.

 

OK.  You got me.  I'm definitely not against killing those who murder. l AM against creating a whole class of proven vicious felons with absolutely nothing to lose.

 

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out ... 

[kannot]

On 1/20/2017 at 8:26 AM, BudRight said:

 

I'm against speeding penalties too.

 

Hug therapy? Hyperbole.

why  not  bring in  square  wheels...............im  sure  tv  could  announce  the  Thais  have invented  it  somwhere

[Keesters]

I wonder at how many of the "Good" voters would be able to pull the hangman's lever, switch on the electric chair,  make those lethal injections, fire the rifle etc. Please think about that before saying it is good.

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

I wonder at how many of the "Good" voters would be able to pull the hangman's lever, switch on the electric chair,  make those lethal injections, fire the rifle etc. Please think about that before saying it is good.

 

I think they should put it up for auction (proceeds to the families/survivors of the victims) and 'don't think they'd have any trouble at all finding bidders.  Please think about that before saying it's bad.

 

 

[kannot]

18 hours ago, Keesters said:

I wonder at how many of the "Good" voters would be able to pull the hangman's lever, switch on the electric chair,  make those lethal injections, fire the rifle etc. Please think about that before saying it is good.

youll  need  a  new  poll for  that

[joeyg]

On 1/22/2017 at 6:49 AM, Keesters said:

I wonder at how many of the "Good" voters would be able to pull the hangman's lever, switch on the electric chair,  make those lethal injections, fire the rifle etc. Please think about that before saying it is good.

I've been vegetarian and aspiring Buddhist for 44 years.  I can say I most definitely would perform the execution.  Please don't ask why, just wonder.  I wouldn't be happy to do it but I believe in justice.  Certainly for murder, rape, drug dealers just to name a few.

 

I know this is a hot topic.  And I do understand the other side of the debate.  However in discussing this with friends and colleagues I have found an interesting phenomenon.

 

Horrible as it is to think about, imagine a deranged individual, raped your three young children and wife before torturing them in various ways and killing them.  

 

Curiously, I've seen peoples opinion on what sort of justice be handed out change, somewhat.

[uptheos]

" Philippines, considering reinstating it"

 

Seems the president's already re-instated it!

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, uptheos said:

" Philippines, considering reinstating it"

 

Seems the president's already re-instated it!

Although far from a perfect solution I think it's a step in the right direction for the PI.  I've spent a lot of time there.  My GF in the states was from Cebu.  The fabric of society is being torn apart every where.

 

Sure there will be some collateral damage.  However, if you believe Karma to be a real phenomenon then there are no "accidents."