hydro/aquaponic gardening

[CLW]

Pond Liner Film
Vis and Son Company Limited
www.vsc.co.th

[user343434]

Cheers CLW,

 

I'll look that one up. 

Got just a reply from an AP friend Indonesia. I had a grow bed design and wanted to use concrete with liner. He recommended to use Cinder Blocks as this will be reducing the costs to 25%.

 

Good to be in some forums, many heads know more.

 

[JungleBiker]

Another agricultural plastic sheet company is http://www.tctthainet.com/en/home/ 

[user343434]

Cheers all,

 

every info is welcome and sure helps a lot.

 

CLW, they replied almost on the spot and their prices are fair.. 

[CLW]

Cheers all,
 
every info is welcome and sure helps a lot.
 
CLW, they replied almost on the spot and their prices are fair.. 

Great. Good to hear that.

[user343434]

Hi all,

 

by now Vis and Son has far better quality, customers service and warranty than others in Thailand.

Also the replies are keen and helpful.

They try everything to hold up the contact.

[user343434]

As this is the Aquaponics forum and I have long ago joined a treat under red claw crayfish I have a question (more than one) 

 

I went my own way to design an aquaponics system based on knowledge from my relatives in the Netherlands who have big size hydroponic farms and own knowledge from ships (yes, offshore Vessels and Constructions) plus mechanical and electrical background gathered from my work offshore. 

As I said in the more than 5 years planning I had a lot of OOPSes and Loops as the Netherlands and North sea is not the Land of Smiles.. 

 

Here some Questions:

 

- pumps I sourced at Ruangsangthai as they are well stocked and I hope to get a reply soon. May be somebody has even a better idea where to look for energy efficient high flow pumps (60.000 ltr/hr would be perfect) 

aliblahblah offers a huge amount (made in china and India crap) and somehow I have the felling that it will smell like tons of dead fish using them.

European pumps like Blue Eco = 4300 EUR a go multiplied by 52 pieces plus tax and transport would be roughly 1/3rd of my complete 95x100m greenhouse and fish farm building incl all tanks and grow beds. Thanks but no thanks!

 

- Rockwool cubes (grodan). I found a hydroponic supplier who sells foam blocks but the seed germination rate was 10% even following accurate the instruction. Also it looked more that he wrecked down a sofa at the motorbike taxi stand and sold me the foam filling.

Coco Coir is about 75% healthy seedlings but in aquaponics only a 2nd choice for me. 

 

- Last and most tricky question:

I said already I planned to put red claw crayfish into the grow beds. 

Tank culture does usually not bring any market size Crays but with a special grow bed design of 7.5 x 50 mtr x 50cm deep I am sure the size and growing speed will drastically improve.

I have made now 2 years long experiments focusing on how the Crays behave, as I expected they will go like the "axe through the forest" with my veggie roots.

But after double and triple check the phenomenon, the opposite was the case.

The crays were climbing busy as never seen before through the roots, hiding and picking selectively the rotten parts out and more healthy and faster growing plants were the result.

Also they kept the bottom of the tanks (used as grow beds) neatly and clean beside leaving piles of their own from me and my wife high valued "releasements" after our garden plants showed us where the 'frog the curls has' ? (see picts) and created a thick jungle. Bananas Stems have reached about 50cm diameter and the Chicken Flower had 10m Vines with 1000's of flowers. Almost the entire Village made photos and so one wedding couple under a sea of flowers.

Solids in grow beds can be another issue but my biggest worries is since begin how to harvest all the good high value crap and gets it as a high end fertilizer on the market.

The combo grow bed and housing design is now completed.

They crays will be happy with a good flow through their housings and as soon the occupy a condo the flow rate with high pressure clean the crow bed..

How to achieve that? ...my Secret ? 

 

Back to the question.

As Aquaponics are more common in AUS and the US I believe there are farmers who already introduce crayfish directly into their grow beds and just don't tell it because they fear comeptition.

Google knows almost nothing about this. Some backyard farmers tried but most made engraving mistakes and the crays ended up in the entire system where they created more or less a huge mess. 

I overcame this with some Ideas from Ships, Wind Turbines and ...my secret ? 

But what we all know is the Aquarium effect. Put a fish in a small tank and he will stay small get him a bigger home and he grows leave him in the river he turns one day into a Game Fish.. 

Making an Aquaponics grow bed big, deep enough, good aerated, self cleaning and put you BBQ as work power in that pays you at the end for the good job (Remember I said before, the life stock is a minus until breaking even business in aquaponics, do not even think about making profit, no you won't! But you need the pee to get Bio Veggies and yes you can even after all feeding costs reaching the breaking even marker ...my secret ? 

 

Off cause I f we are living far apart in LoS and you are planning also to feed a bigger city in the hood we might have to share some secrets. In total I must have spent a few million quit for my test system(s) and secrets and sure sharing knowledge would have saved a coin but as I said before, I went and purposely wanted to go my own way. 

Nelson and Pade and Friendly Aquaponics sell you a system from the shelf but there are still many improvements to make to get it optimized in LoS. 

So does mine .... my secret ? 

 

but if this forum starts proper through as heck I am sure one who helps and also shares some secrets..

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by See Will

[CLW]

I'm curious about your grow beds. Have you calculated the cheapest way of building them?
I would either thinking of some brickwall / concrete construction and make it waterproof with pool paint or concrete additives or as other way some kind of underconstruction (with 50cm depth maybe blue plastic pipe strong enough) and then lay some pond liner.
Looking forward to your or others' reply

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, CLW said:

I'm curious about your grow beds. Have you calculated the cheapest way of building them?
I would either thinking of some brickwall / concrete construction and make it waterproof with pool paint or concrete additives or as other way some kind of underconstruction (with 50cm depth maybe blue plastic pipe strong enough) and then lay some pond liner.
Looking forward to your or others' reply

Plenty of Do it Yourself videos on the subject at YouTube.

I am also curious on the subject ,

I have incorporated a Koi pond in the house we just build ,  I have not stock it with fish yet I am supervising a project in the US and will be back and forth for the next year or so, but when i return I plan to install a filter and build a waterfall, I am thinking that the koi wastewater with all its nutrients would be a perfect growing medium for small scale aquaponics . (the waterfall will be where the electric outlet is at the column) I have seen a system on Youtube consisting of half barrels on stands.

 

 

 

[user343434]

Coincidence, nice

 

the blue barrels were a first step, same way, cutted in half using a bell siphon (just in the opposite corner for max flow through) 

Then the barrels got scrapped according to the needs and wishes of my wife and new blue barrels have been bought to be used as 3 then 4 filter system. And so my entire backyard changed into a Landscape of blue pipes, concrete Buckets with ebb flow beds and a dutch bucket system.. 

And even due to lack of space 6 x 4 chamber baby aquariums into the living room.

 

There was a day over 5 years ago my wife, her aunt and nephew were p*ssing themselves laughing. Look what Lung Will does but after they have harvested the first salads, onions in half the time and twice the size they went into it.

And the wishes came: I have seen on google this, can you add it to the system? So the pump grew from an aquarium pump to a 12000 ltr/hr pump, the filters made from garbage bins to blue barrels and as they didn't catch up with the ammonia the 6 x 120 ltr ebb flood beds came into the game.. 

 that's where we are now, done upgrades and changes sometimes all 2-3 month when I came back from a job and also now I know already when I leaving the Vessel in the North sea, in about 1 week the story picks up with me.

 

But anyway I am happy how my wife and Thai family is now keen learning the way from an urban farmer to a modern farmer and how happy and proud they are with their own results. 

[carlyai]

Looks like a great system. I'm following with much interest.

I'm just getting back into finishing designing my green house for the growth beds. Got the fish shed finished but not fitted out yet.

Thanks for your posts. [emoji2]

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[user343434]

I like your avatar carlyai, when my wife complains I played a air fiddle and she replied then, why you play music for a buffalo you must be more stupid.. Seems to be a common Thai thing.. 

 

Just received a message that my wife has bought 1 more aquarium for her crayfish fry. 

As the backyard is full the living room has to provide now more space, lets see when the TV and my office desk flies on the street for the garbage workers LOL.

She takes the fry as soon hatched out of the berries from the mothers and separates them, the survival rate is going much higher as not so many getting eaten by the mother. 

The water she tries to color by using coco coir and she said that they move more around. In the clear water the fry is balling up obviously as a protection against predators.  

[carlyai]

Looks good. You don't need an office anyway.

'I like your avatar carlyai'.

It's a Thai proverb, playing a fiddle to a buffalo, or, the English language equivalent "It's like talking to the door". [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[user343434]

On 7/15/2018 at 4:55 PM, CLW said:

I'm curious about your grow beds. Have you calculated the cheapest way of building them?
I would either thinking of some brickwall / concrete construction and make it waterproof with pool paint or concrete additives or as other way some kind of underconstruction (with 50cm depth maybe blue plastic pipe strong enough) and then lay some pond liner.
Looking forward to your or others' reply

After long research its the common 10cm cinderblock or lightweight concrete Block for rough 5.5 baht a go. Covered Pond liner from VSC are here the best and cheap. 

My mate is good in construction things and he recommended good foundation poles in the ground is essential for long life. 

[Time to grow]

Looking for a source of Expanded Shale or some more economical alternative to Hydroton. I would need about 1.25 cubic meters in the Nakhon Sawan area for a new aquaponic system nearing completion. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[user343434]

In whole Thailand you have not much choice for expanded Clay Pellets.

they are floating forever, hence more than 15cm bears the risk that they just flow over the side as soon you fill the grow beds with water. (been there done it!)

 

The price for clay pellets is around 6000 Baht per bag of 10Kg so 1,25 cbm will be pretty expensive.

 

I have changed it by using small River Rocks and just made a top layer of clay pellets.

You fill 15cm and then water on to the level you want to see your clay pellets in the grow beds.

Feel by hand below how much void space is created and then just fill the void by river rocks size 10-15 mm around. (they just sink through the clay pellets when you fill them on top of the grow beds)

River Rocks or Gravel are cheaper but also more heavy and take care not to use Limestone or anything that has influence on your ph level.

Edited October 3, 2018 by See Will
typo

[user343434]

Pity I had just a little time to spend at home.

Just after 7 days a client called me for a new job in the North Sea for approx 4-6 weeks.

 

Just for info.

The Aquariums were about 1000 baht a go and from 6 x four chamber Aquariums have already 3 built some cracks and flooded the living room.

 

The shop was a small aquarium shop in Sukhumvit road that makes these Aquariums to order.

It seems he used common window glass and is not that picky with his Silicone.

Sure he has seen me the first and last time.

You will be better off and spend twice the price in a real aquarium shop and buy some from the shelf.. 

 

The way to build a sufficient but small scale test system before constructing a big commercial Aquaponics system pays more and more off.

Just mention this would have been happened by around 100m of aquariums planned for the crayfish baby station?

Loss of 6000 baht is still an acceptable note into the 'lessons learned' folder. 

 

[Time to grow]

See Will,

 

Thanks for the advice. The Aquaponic community seems pretty sold on expanded clay pellets as the cadillac of media options. It sounds like it stops floating after it becomes completely waterlogged. This is my first aquaponics build but the preference for hydroton seems pretty unanimous by people in the know. I have been quoted $US500 for 1.25 cu/mt delivered from China but that's out of my price range. I was hoping there was a local manufacturer. Another option sounds like expanded shale AKA LIKA or LECA.

I will probably go with river rock but I live in the Nakhon Sawan area where I understand limestone is abundant. I plan to get some river pebbles here soon and test it thoroughly. That being said, it sounds like testing is not necessarily the end all -be all, as just a few limestone pebbles in the mix that were not tested could still create problems. The other disadvantage of river pebbles, even if they test good, they don't have nearly the surface area of expanded clay or shale. This is important for microbial growth as I understand it. Where did you source you pebbles from?

Appreciate the heads up on the aquariums. I picked up two, 2000 liter fiberglass water tanks that should suffice. Cut some Polycarbonate windows into them and I am getting ready to plumb things up soon.

[Time to grow]

See Will,

 

By the way, how are you automating your flood and drain beds if you have them?

[rice555]

2 hours ago, Time to grow said:

See Will,

 

Thanks for the advice. The Aquaponic community seems pretty sold on expanded clay pellets as the cadillac of media options. It sounds like it stops floating after it becomes completely waterlogged. This is my first aquaponics build but the preference for hydroton seems pretty unanimous by people in the know. I have been quoted $US500 for 1.25 cu/mt delivered from China but that's out of my price range. I was hoping there was a local manufacturer. Another option sounds like expanded shale AKA LIKA or LECA.

I will probably go with river rock but I live in the Nakhon Sawan area where I understand limestone is abundant. I plan to get some river pebbles here soon and test it thoroughly. That being said, it sounds like testing is not necessarily the end all -be all, as just a few limestone pebbles in the mix that were not tested could still create problems. The other disadvantage of river pebbles, even if they test good, they don't have nearly the surface area of expanded clay or shale. This is important for microbial growth as I understand it. Where did you source you pebbles from?

Appreciate the heads up on the aquariums. I picked up two, 2000 liter fiberglass water tanks that should suffice. Cut some Polycarbonate windows into them and I am getting ready to plumb things up soon.

Hello All, has anybody got a price from Aquaponics Thailand or Accent Thailand for hydroton?

rice555

[user343434]

23 hours ago, rice555 said:

Hello All, has anybody got a price from Aquaponics Thailand or Accent Thailand for hydroton?

rice555

Its about 6000 baht in the Sukhumvit Rd Flower market Pattaya opposite Bangkok Hospital.

The cheapest I found so far.

My Visit at Aquaponics Thailand in Bangkok was more or less no success as he has nothing in stock. Not even grow sponge or net pots.

It was interesting as his wife (the owner wasn't there) guided us around and took a lot time to explain the system. 

Friendly for sure but as I said no stock at all.

 

My hydroton is since 2 years in use and sure soaked to the last bit, but still its floating. I use for later river gravel 15mm for sure.. 

Any gravel will do but test before.

Just take one glass full and soak in Vinegar, if it starts bubbling do not use

a 2nd glass steer into a glass of water, if the pH level changes after 24 hrs do not use

so you can be sure to have neutral gravel and don' t end up in a fight with your pH level..

 

 

[rice555]

Hello All, Bangsai, the place that sells the DWC grow systems

was the first place in TH to sell foam cubes, their net pots are

designed to fit their raft/grow boards. They are in BKK.

Also Accent Thailand has foam cubes in their www.

rice555

[Ajvat37]

I’m about to begin my first venture into hydroponics using the Kratky Method for some salad greens.  I have been trying to find Rockwool for seeding as well as some 10-20 gallon plastic tubs that are graded type 2 (high density polyethylene).  I have been unable to find Rockwool and most plastic basins or tubs I see do not have any indication of type of plastic.  If anyone has some suggestions on where I can order these either online or if there is a shop in Chiang Mai that would have these items.  I’m planning to put the plastic tubs outdoors so If there is uv protected type 2 plastic available somewhere even better.  Thanks.

[user343434]

There is a Company in Rayong who had Growdan in their Program but most likely you get the reply "finished" next month again.

And next month never came..

http://www.higreenshop.com has good alternatives.. Worth a visit anyway.

[user343434]

https://accenthydroponics.com/media/rockwool/

[noopin2014]

Hi,

 

Anyone knows where i can buy dutch bucket in Thailand to grow tomatoes please ?

 

Cheers

[rice555]

Hello All, in one of the other hydro threads not in this pined thread,

some member shared some pic's of a friends greenhouse and it was

setup with bato buckets, not sure where he got them.

The guy with this u-tube site did a good amount  of posting here, but

he did DIY dutch buckets for toms. The first link is his DIY video and

the second is(last) video and in the notes of the video is where he got

his buckets/hydroton. 

I've grown in bags of coir for 18 years here, beats all the pumps, plumbing

and monitoring hands down.

rice555

 

 

[rice555]

Hello All, in one of the other hydro threads not in this pined thread,

some member shared some pic's of a friends greenhouse and it was

setup with bato buckets, not sure where he got them.

The guy with this u-tube site did a good amount  of posting here, but

he did DIY dutch buckets for toms. The first link is his DIY video and

the second is(last) video and in the notes of the video is where he got

his buckets/hydroton. 

I've grown in bags of coir for 18 years here, beats all the pumps, plumbing

and monitoring hands down.

rice555

 

 

[user343434]

Hi rice555,

 

funny, without knowing that guy I went the same way, bought a dozen of these white buckets at Home Pro, connected them with PE pipes and found out the hard way: without a cooled greenhouse dutch buckets won't work or at least the yield is way too small in our hot climate.

I kicked the whole system and focused more on "cool feet" of the plants using ebb flood grow beds.

My new redesigned system is almost complete and pics will follow soon here.

 

 

[rice555]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:10 PM, See Will said:

Hi rice555,

 

funny, without knowing that guy I went the same way, bought a dozen of these white buckets at Home Pro, connected them with PE pipes and found out the hard way: without a cooled greenhouse dutch buckets won't work or at least the yield is way too small in our hot climate.

I kicked the whole system and focused more on "cool feet" of the plants using ebb flood grow beds.

My new redesigned system is almost complete and pics will follow soon here.

 

 

I'm still using poly bags of coir, tried non-woven cloth bags and found that they dry out to fast, so back

to the poly bags. My main problem here out by Phi Mai is the water, almost EC1.7 from the tap.

Where I lived before in Muang Korat, had a borehole that was great, the tap was the same. As the crow

flies, I'm about 4 miles from the salt processing factory that you see the blue & white salt shakers/bags you

see in stores. Will probably doing a RO system if I start growing more like I use to.

rice555