hydro/aquaponic gardening

[carlyai]

7 hours ago, stament said:

Sorry, my error. I misunderstood. I intend to use shade cloth as a cheap option to start with along the sides and roof. Not sure if I will use green or black shade cloth. I've spoken to people who say black and some say green lol. My concern with black is will enough sun come through for the plants to grow.

 

What are your and TTG's thoughts on this?

 

Thanks

My thoughts are not to use green or black but start with clear/white bug screen and add shade clothe where needed. Black is used for mushrooms. Green you can get in various sun resistance 50% etc. The problem where I am with shade cloth is it doesn"t last long.

[stament]

Ah ok, interesting. Will the bug screen last though?

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by stament

[Math52]

On 6/17/2020 at 4:09 PM, stament said:

Have you decided on your greenhouse build yet? I'm about to start one so am thinking what's the best approach whilst trying to keep costs down.

 

Will the green screening keep bugs away, some people I spoke to have their doubts so maybe full ceiling to floor plastic sheeting is required.

 

Any thoughts from members experienced in this.

 

Thanks

That's the plan ! You can check this on their website (http://www.bangsaiagro.com/aboutus#visit_farm) or visit them directly to have a better idea. They are using DRFT instead of NFT which doesn't matter much to my opinion. Main advantage is the plants will survive in case of electricity shortage. With this setting, you can access your plants from both sides.

I didn't start the construction yet. Need to buy a bending tool for the steel pipe. The length of this "wagon" is 6 meter, plastic on the top + insect screen on the sides. I like the concept. I think it is even possible to optimize if you replace the DRFT with vertical NFT (not vertical in fact but upside down V shape). 

About insect screen, the people at this address admitted that even with the screen, some bugs can go through so they need to use pesticides times to times. That's really a problem because you cannot advertise as pesticide free if you use some even if it is not much.

Let me know what do you think about this. 

[Time to grow]

Another aspect of a solid plastic sheet roofing that might have been overlooked, It's hot in Thailand. Particularly where I am but the temperatures in much of Thailand are challenging for growing most everything. Screen doesn't seem to hold any additional heat as compared to outside temperatures but screen also defeats an evaporative cooler. If one were planning to use an evaporative cooler, screen would not be an option but if one were looking to depend on natural airflow, it seems to me, one would want to promote as much airflow as possible.

 

In regards to insects getting through the screen, I think only aphids could fit and even that would be a squeeze. I forget which grade of mesh I am using but I am confident it stops a pretty high percentage of insects. I have had one brief and light aphid infestation but I suspect they entered the screen house through the front door. They were easily dealt with organically. I don't believe sun shade material will offer much of a hindrance to most insects.

[stament]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:49 PM, notagain said:

Take a sample of your rocks put in a jar then fill with vinegar. It you get a lot of fizzing and bubbling then its going to be a problem. the initial ph test will not tell much as the lime/calcium will continue to leach out over time. Using coconut coir as a media is an option too as it is cheap.

I read that you can't use 100% Coco as it retains water too well. Need to mix it with another medium.

 

Interested to know of anyone using Coco and how they are getting on.

[Math52]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:41 PM, Hereinthailand said:

Some Interesting reading

How do I manage EC.docx

Preparing Your Own Hydroponic Nutrients.docx

How do I manage acid addition and pH rise.docx

What acid should I use for pH control.docx

There are five things you need to understand before.docx

The Big Five.docx

Hello HIT, hello everyone,

These readings are very interesting indeed ! I was surprised to find out that (according to these articles) NFT, the system that is mostly used in Thailand for growing lettuce is said to be not appropriate for tropical/hot climate... Apparently it requires a high level of control of the environment. To my understanding it can be use in Greenhouse provided that you have all the ventilation system up and running which, once again, is rarely the case in Thailand. Any idea why people are using it anyway ?

Thank you!

Math52

[dasboot]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:21 AM, Math52 said:

Hello HIT, hello everyone,

These readings are very interesting indeed ! I was surprised to find out that (according to these articles) NFT, the system that is mostly used in Thailand for growing lettuce is said to be not appropriate for tropical/hot climate... Apparently it requires a high level of control of the environment. To my understanding it can be use in Greenhouse provided that you have all the ventilation system up and running which, once again, is rarely the case in Thailand. Any idea why people are using it anyway ?

Thank you!

Math52

People use NFT because of its relatively cheap set up costs, but a lot of these set ups don't last, some never make it through a year.

NFT is not suited to a tropical climate unless you have a climate controlled greenhouse.

Water temps, air temps will make life almost impossible if you haven't. Hence DRFT, being built in polystyrene it is easier to control water temps and having the extra water gives slightly more stability to the system.

The perfect solution is a Deep Water system, insulated troughs which will keep water temps closer to where they should be.

My three troughs never went over 26c, whereas NFT Nutrient solution would get up into the low thirties.

[insertcoins]

Hi all,

I recently built a small NFT system to grow some leafy greens and herbs at home. I went and ordered this A B liquid nutrient stuff, but unfortunately for me the instructions are all in Thai. Does any of you have experience with this stuff and can tell me in what ratio to dilute it? Both for very young plants that just got their true leaves and for more grown plants.



 

Edited July 13, 2020 by insertcoins

[RichCor]

15 minutes ago, insertcoins said:

I went and ordered this A B liquid nutrient stuff, but unfortunately for me the instructions are all in Thai.

The website listed on the bottle has YouTube videos with English subs that walk you through the process.

 

http://www.thaihydrohobby.com/

[insertcoins]

10 minutes ago, RichCor said:

The website listed on the bottle has YouTube videos with English subs that walk you through the process.

 

http://www.thaihydrohobby.com/

my man! much obliged.

[Time to grow]

I wanted to post some updated photos of our more completed aquaponics system. It is still a work in progress but at least now it is producing.

 

[carlyai]

Looks great mate. ????

Really a lot of thought and effort in that setup.

I can see how your sump ended up, so given me some more ideas. 

Why didn't you use a submersible pump in the sump and what LPH pump did you use?

Fish look great and healthy. 

What's your stocking density and how long did it take you to cycle the system to get your correct nitrates/nitrates?

Again, looks great. I'm sure to have more questions to ask you in the future.

I've been posting to the wrong forum so will post my latest setup here, forgot. 

[carlyai]

Here's my stage 1 setup. Just the fish to start with as have to move outside to the greenhouse next.

I've still got to get the air connected and may need a couple of P traps and pipe extensions from the drains. 

Think I'm giving up posting here now as can't post pics cause it says low memory.

Anyway my setup is posted to the thread not the pinned topic. Cheers.

 

[Time to grow]

Carlyai,

 Thanks. It's a work in progress. The fish are still small and not producing enough waste but they will grow.

 

On 9/27/2020 at 5:48 AM, carlyai said:

Why didn't you use a submersible pump

I think the pump is a 130 L/min centrifugal. In retrospect, a submersible probably would have been more efficient. This pump was on sale and the pumping volume was a good fit for this application.

 

On 9/27/2020 at 5:48 AM, carlyai said:

What's your stocking density and how long did it take you to cycle the system to get your correct nitrates/nitrates?

The density is 500 fingerlings per 2000 liter tank. As they grow, this density will be too dense but for now, I want to quickly get the waste production levels up quickly. 

 

In regards to the nitrates, I have run out of the test solution to know specific values. I took a soiled filter from my previously existing aquaponics system and placed it in this new system to help quickly colonize the bacteria. I then cycled the water for a few weeks before adding the fish and crossed my fingers. I lost some of the Blue Tilapia in the other tank initially but none of the red Tilapia and no more deaths of the Blue for a couple weeks now. 

 

I am also having trouble with the Forum. Pages take a long time to open, and I never received notification of your posts.

[johng]

I like the fish tank window..is it perspex ?  how did you bend it to fit the curve of the tank ?

[carlyai]

40 minutes ago, johng said:

I like the fish tank window..is it perspex ?  how did you bend it to fit the curve of the tank ?

carlyai here. If I remember time to grow talks about it in the previous thread posts. There is also a YouTube video on the installation. You can also buy a kit from Amazon I think. I was not chicken to attempt it. 

[Time to grow]

4 hours ago, johng said:

is it perspex

It is Polycarbonate. In Thailand, I think it goes by the name Aisapoly, in America, it goes by the brand name of Lexan. Polycarbonate is much stronger than Perspex (Poly(methyl methacrylate), also known as acrylic, Crylux, Plexiglas, Acrylite, Astariglas, Lucite, Perclax.

 

I ordered a couple pieces from a supplier in Bangkok (see contact below) cut to size. I cut the holes in the tanks and then I drilled and fitted the polycarbonate to the tanks. The bolts are more than adequate to shape the polycarbonate to the tanks so long as they are drilled together on the curve of the tank.

 

The Polycarbonate is bedded with polyurethane sealant such as 3M 5200. They are bulletproof and will never leak. At least, not in my lifetime, I guarantee it.

 

Techi Polymers Co., Ltd.

H/P: +66(0)85-689 7767

Tel:  +66(0)2-150-9835,36

Fax: +66(0)2-150-9837

E-mail: [email protected]

[Time to grow]

So, we plant 1,125 seedlings every week. The following week, those planted rafts are shuffled down the trough five raft lengths. On the next week, those same 1,125 seedlings are moved onto new rafts with wider spacing for more room to grow. Then on the third week, they are shuffled down again (10 raft spaces) to the far end. After the fourth week, we harvest 1,125 fully grown plants. By rotating in this fashion, we are able to harvest 1,125 plants every week.

[carlyai]

8Unfortunately I can't get your updates as 'follow' doesn't seem to.

 

Just got my fish tank air working. Was a bit of a project but seems to work beautifully. I'll try and upload a pic but every time I try I get a message saying 'not enough memory to upload photos' what ever that means.

Still got an unknown water flow problem as (from only 1 tank selected), every now and again the  pump seems to run out off water. Holes in fish tank sump cover musn' t be large enough for a good flow. Think it will be OK with 2 fish tanks working. Now gotta get back in the other tank to finish off that air.

EDIT

Pics worked this time. The air/water setup is pretty neat. Just discovering bit by bit as no destructions. There is a fiberglass circular cover, with small slots in it, over the fish tank sump drain. That stops all the little fishies being sucked out into the drain. Screwed into the top of that is a black hat (made in Taiwan) but got these little holes in that let the air out. All this is screwed into the air outlet hole in the middle of the sump. So what's sposed to happen is the fish waste circulates under the black hat to the drain and the air is released from the top of the hat. Neat if it works. Will see soon.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by carlyai

[carlyai]

[carlyai]

Well that video uploaded OK. 

So I've got most of the air and water probs. sorted, now for some fish. 

[carlyai]

@Time to growHi, just put some fish in the tanks yesterday. I think they would have been fairly stressed as they came out of Mekong river water into my filtered water via 110 km road trip.

Seems like a few died last night and not eating this morning.

Time To Grow, did you lose many fish when you started?

I think I'll have to have another tank (maybe one of those blue road side drums you see) to put the bought fish in first for a week and then put the ones that live in the fish tanks.

[Time to grow]

Hay, Congratulations! Exciting times!

 

I am only just getting the post with your photos. Very professional looking. Nice job!

 

Out of say 200 initial fish, I lost two or three the first day. Then another five or so during the following week before stabilizing. I still lose one every once in awhile for unknown reasons.

 

Ph and temperature differences seem to be the big killers. To minimize the stress, I keep the fish in the same original water but transfer the fish and water to a bucket at least twice as big as the original container. I then run a small hose like an air line to siphon water from the new tank, into the bucket of fish. This gradually changes the existing water Ph and temperature to more closely match the new water. I siphon at a rate that lasts 30 minutes or more with the intent of at least doubling the volume of the original water.

 

After about 30 minutes, I dump the old water and fish through a net to filter out the fish without adding the old water to my aquaponics system. Quickly adding the fish to the new system. Then, I don't feed them for about 24 hours. Fish can reportedly go a week or more without food.

 

A local news reporter is coming to our house next week to do a report on our system. I will try to remember to send you a link once it's published.

 

[Time to grow]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:35 AM, carlyai said:

did you lose many fish when you started?

 

The process I described above was with my original system. I was thinking, in my newer system, the results were different. I followed the same procedure of adding the fish but this time I added 500 red Tilapia to one tank and 500 blue Tilapia to a second tank. Both tanks in my new system have the same water circulating and are identical in every way.  The fish were both purchased from the same hatchery nearby at the same time. I only lost one or two of the red Tilapia but probably close to 100 of the blue Tilapia over the following week to ten days. I don't know why I was losing so many of the blue when the red were doing just fine but it goes to show that there is something more going on besides just Ph and temperature. The situation resolved itself and I haven't lost any more of either species for some time now. One could suspect all kinds of causes for the deaths but at the end of the day, both species were in the same water. Without some kind of evidence, I am left at a loss as to why so many blue died initially.

[carlyai]

I have to do some modifications to the drain fittings. I was a bit worried about the white disk covering the drain being warped and not sealing properly. As you can see from the pic, the fish can be sucked into the drain pipe under the white disc. There's a softer plastic modification to be installed.

Also the fish are too small. With this lot of fish: we saw a government hatchery along the Mekong river just outside Mukdahan. My wife was going back that way so I asked her to pick up 2 bags of male Tilapia, 30 in each bag. So we couldn't get that and the hatchery just gave a bag of mixed fish in some green water for B100 a bag.

Bit of a disaster as you can see from the pic.

I looked at some of the dead fish gills and they were not a nice deep pink colour and had white around their mouths. They never are.

I also learned that with the design flaw in the drain fitting and small fish, they were sucked into the mouth of the pump and blocked some of the flow and one tank overflowed and the other tank drained. Answer to this problem is to take the drain pipe from the fish tank up vertically and install a P-trap at the highest level needed in the fish tank.

So I've got 2 modifications to complete ,the drain cover and P-trap.

I can see your notification posts now. Cheers.

[Time to grow]

Sorry, I am not much help on fish diagnosis. I test the pH regularly, but the amonia, nitrites, nitrates, and hardness only occasionally. The water temperature fluctuates with the weather and I do nothing to heat or cool it.

 

It sounds like you have a good handle on the modifications necessary. 

[carlyai]

I took the drain pipes in and out of the pump off but there were no fish sucked into the pump. So the dead fish were blocking the drain or the white plastic disk slits. Not a big a problem as I thought.

Waiting for the modified drains from Bangkok.

I think I bought this gear about 4 years ago, and since then guys using the tank setup have come up with modifications that I wasn't aware of.  Getting information a small bit at a time. 

Also wondering if it may be getting cool for the fish in my insulated shed. Have to buy some thermometers.

[carlyai]

On 10/28/2020 at 3:29 PM, carlyai said:

I took the drain pipes in and out of the pump off but there were no fish sucked into the pump. So the dead fish were blocking the drain or the white plastic disk slits. Not a big a problem as I thought.

Waiting for the modified drains from Bangkok.

I think I bought this gear about 4 years ago, and since then guys using the tank setup have come up with modifications that I wasn't aware of.  Getting information a small bit at a time. 

Also wondering if it may be getting cool for the fish in my insulated shed. Have to buy some thermometers.

 

[carlyai]

@Timetogrow  Hi. Got some questions for you about the size of the fish waste that goes down the drain.

Is it like keko poo or smaller? Smaller than 1mm or does it break down in the water and particles are very small?

 

I've got some pics coming up of the new drain covers. These are made of different material and not warped so will fit flush with the bottom of the fish tank and drain.

As you can see from the pics, the drain cover has fairly large slits in It, so I was going to cover it with 2 layers of fine white mesh, but, maybe this will restrict the drain flow too much and possibly could just use 1 layer of white mesh.

Have a look at the pics and see what you recon. I know your drain setup is different, but I am not sure if the fish waste will filter through 2 or 1 layer of mesh.

How did the reporter visit go?

[Smithson]

As a few people have asked about coco I thought I'd relate my experience. The dust can't be used, too waterlogged. The bagged diced pieces are OK, but have a lot of dust and small pieces which settle low in grow beds. Coco colors the water, the less dust the less color.

 

I'm now using large chunks which I get free, they are aged so no salt and less color in the water. On the top of the GBs I add some smaller pieces to even it out, as you can see below.

 

After 6-12 months the coco is clogged and starts to break down, then it's used for potting mix or thrown straight on the garden.

 

Sometimes this is still too wet for basil and other plants. For plants that don't like wet feet I use the wood like inner shell broken into small pieces. This last years without breaking down, but it can be difficult to collect enough and breaking it into small pieces is slow.

 

 

Basil does well in this media.

 

 

There are four GBs, only one 100% woodlike pieces, the others have them in the lower sections which are wetter.

 

The system is about 2,000 lts with catfish, as they're indestructible. The greenhouse is borax treated bamboo, screwed fastened hex screws, then painted white for protection. It's held up well after four years. Generally I try to reuse/recycle and be sustainable as possible. I'm in the process of adding solar, which isn't that expensive, but a bit of a learning curve.

Most of the greens are used in my wife's restaurant, there's nothing like fresh basil.

Food scraps from the restaurant go to BSFL bins, providing fish feed. The catfish don't particularly like them though. Does anyone know if they'd be good food for Barramundi?

 

I was able to get some used NFT rails cheap and use them for hydro greens, I also have Dutch bucket hydro tomatoes, as they don't do so well in AP. DWC is a much better option in this heat, I've tried it in the past, but my filtration isn't good enough, so solids attach to the roots causing rot.