Rosewood Trees

[sbk]

I found a small article in the Bangkok Post regarding Rosewood trees: Pradoo in Thai

Apparently it is not a restricted tree for lumber (ie you do not need to register with the Forestry dept when you plant it) and it says the Forest Dept has a propagation and extension division in Tambon Kam Yai in Ubon Ratchathani's Muang District. They propagate and give away trees for reforestation but there won't be saplings ready for distribution to the public until March.

Just curious if anyone knows if Mahogany is also not restricted?

[chownah]

Mai pradoo is not really rosewood.....some people call it Thai rosewood but that's just so they can ask a higher price for it. Real rosewood costs about 10 times as much as mai pradoo. My floors are made from mai pradoo and its really beautiful stuff....I've seen furniture made from it that was really beautiful too....but...it's not really rosewood.

Chownah

[sbk]

Interesting they didn't mention that in the article

According to this plywood website Pradoo is actually a Pterocarpus:

Pterocarpus macrocarpus

Burma Padauk

Family: Leguminosae

Other Common Names: Mai Pradoo, Pradoo (Thailand).

Distribution: Sometimes rather common in the upper mixed and dry forests of Burma; also found in mixed deciduous forests of Thailand.

The Tree: A medium-sized tree, up to 80 ft in height, boles clear to 25 ft straight and cylindrical, sometimes irregular; trunk diameters 2 to 3 ft.

The Wood:

General Characteristics: Heartwood bright yellowish red to dark brick red, streaked with darker lines, lustrous when freshly cut but becoming a dull but attractive golden brown on exposure; sapwood grayish, narrow. Texture moderately coarse; grain interlocked; has a faint spicy odor.

Weight: Basic specific gravity (ovendry weight/green volume) 0.75; air-dry density 54 pcf.

Mechanical Properties: (2-in. standard)

Moisture content Bending strength Modulus of elasticity Maximum crushing strength

(%) (Psi) (1,000 psi) (Psi)

Green (38) 15,975 1,900 8,200

12% 20,640 2,080 10,945

Janka side hardness 2,040 lb for green material and 2,170 lb for dry.

Drying and Shrinkage: Seasons well with little degrade, but does have a slight tendency to surface check. Kiln schedule T6-D4 is suggested for 4/4 stock and T3-D3 for 8/4. Shrinkage green to ovendry: radial 3.4%; tangential 5.8%; volumetric 8.4%

Working Properties: Rather difficult to saw, especially when dry, and also difficult to work with handtools, turns well, dresses to a smooth finish, glues satisfactorily

Durability: The heartwood is rated as very durable and also resistant to termite attack. Sapwood liable to attack by powder-post beetles.

Preservation: Heartwood extremely resistant to preservation treatments.

Uses: Decorative flooring, furniture, cabinetwork, tool handles, billiard tables.

So, does anyone know the scientific name for Rosewood? I've seen Dahlbergia and Tipuana both listed.

[chownah]

Wikkipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood

Talks about several different species that are all called rosewood by various people and the "pre-eminent rosewood appreciated in the western world is Dalbergia nigra."

Chownah

[Francis Maube]

There are different kinds of Pradoo. I planted about 100 of them beside the teak trees and at least 2 (perhaps 3) distintly different types grew up. The seedling were from the same source but the quality of the wood is very different although they are all fast growing.

[chownah]

There are different kinds of Pradoo. I planted about 100 of them beside the teak trees and at least 2 (perhaps 3) distintly different types grew up. The seedling were from the same source but the quality of the wood is very different although they are all fast growing.

Are you sure that they are all Pradoo?

Chownah

[sbk]

So, is Pradoo expensive Chownah? What did you pay for your wood, if you don't mind my asking

Edited December 12, 2006 by sbk
typo

[chownah]

My wife bought these about 10 years ago (before we met) so the price she paid has no meaning today.

We stopped at a wood store because they had some boards almost like our flooring to check on the price (about one year ago) and my wife says she thinks the price was about 500 or 600 baht for one piece 1 inch thick, 10 inches wide and 2 metres long. This makes it considerably more expensive than the best construction grade wood but way way cheaper than teak I guess although I've never bought any teak boards so don't know the price. Not all wood stores have mai pradoo so my guess is that the price may vary quite alot depending on local availability but don't know.

Chownah

Edited December 12, 2006 by chownah

[Francis Maube]

There are different kinds of Pradoo. I planted about 100 of them beside the teak trees and at least 2 (perhaps 3) distintly different types grew up. The seedling were from the same source but the quality of the wood is very different although they are all fast growing.

Are you sure that they are all Pradoo?

Chownah

Yes, they are. The leaves are the same but the bark is quite different so is the wood. The trees with the rough bark eems to be yielding a reddish, heavy, strong wood. The other type has a much thinner bark, whitish with darker bloches and yield a much lighter, both in tems of color and weight, wood. I gather it is a weaker kind of pradoo but I haven't taken any thick bark down yet so I cannot confirm.

[sbk]

Interesting website from an online nursery based in FLA with quite a bit of info about Pterocarpus macrocarpus :

Large vigorous tree with dense foliage providing good shade. Fast growing and very ornamental. Fragrant yellow flowers turn to attractive large brownish seeds. It grows to 80 feet high and yields a bright yellow red to dark brick red heartwood, often streaked with darker color. This tree is higly valued for its beautiful wood. It is not a species that sells in volume. It is an accent wood. The color varies log by log, but Burma padauk is generally more orange in color and African and Andaman padauk generally have more vibrant red orange colors. Like other padauks, it has a spicy odor when cut. Burma padauk can be hard to saw if the wood is dry and difficult to use with hand tools because of its interlocked grain and coarse texture. Traditional Thai music instruments (harps) are made out of wood of this wood. A valued furniture and cabinet wood, decorative veneers, novelty items, turning and interior trim. One of the landscape favorites of South East Asia.

[Loom]

The reference I have mentions that "mai pradu" is one of three of the most valuable timbers of the "leguminosae" family. The other two would be mae daeng (xylia xylocarpa) and mai makha (afzelia xylocarpa). Also says that pterocarpus macrocarpus is easily confused with pterocarpus indicus. The p. indicus tree is supposed to have completely smooth leaves without hairs.

Apparently pradu is the most prized and used for fine furniture and art. Mae daeng and makha are used for heavy construction including bridges, floors and posts but makha is often used for cabinets and wood carvings.

The whole family of trees apparently good for poorer soils since they "fix nitrogen".

[sbk]

The reference I have mentions that "mai pradu" is one of three of the most valuable timbers of the "leguminosae" family. The other two would be mae daeng (xylia xylocarpa) and mai makha (afzelia xylocarpa). Also says that pterocarpus macrocarpus is easily confused with pterocarpus indicus. The p. indicus tree is supposed to have completely smooth leaves without hairs.

Apparently pradu is the most prized and used for fine furniture and art. Mae daeng and makha are used for heavy construction including bridges, floors and posts but makha is often used for cabinets and wood carvings.

The whole family of trees apparently good for poorer soils since they "fix nitrogen".

Thats true, leguminous plants do fix nitrogen, thanks for the additional info. What reference did you get this from?

I am looking for a good timber tree that would have a good resale value and grow well in our hot, humid climate (island life )and fairly sandy soils. We have avo's in the good soil section of our garden but the other half is noticeably sandier and poorer soil. My husband thinks Pradu would grow here, just curious how long it would take to reach maturity (ie harvest and sell)?

I have heard of people who plant stands of timber trees with the idea that in 30 years time or so they can harvest them and reap a sizable profit. So, I am looking for something along these lines.

[Loom]

The reference is Field Guide to Forest Trees of Northern Thailand bought online. There's information about identification, growing altitudes, moisture, max tree size, and use. There isn't much about growth rates or market value, which aside from looking good, are key considerations for me. From what I understand about teak, it will mature in 20-30 years.

I am thinking along the same line as you. But at this stage I hardly understand why nitrogen fixing trees are "good" for soil.

Still looking into alternatives including flowers and Thai eggplant. The eggplant thread in this forum was so helpful that we'll probably give it a go on a rai or two.

I haven't seen anything in this forum about flowers but understand in dollar terms they are one of the fastest growing ag sectors in the US in recent years. Probably a lot more labor and capital intensive than trees, though.

[timber]

Nitrogen fixation is the process by which nitrogen is taken from its relatively inert molecular form (N2) in the atmosphere and converted into nitrogen compounds useful for other chemical processes (such as, notably, ammonia, nitrate and nitrogen dioxide) [1]. (same as adding nitrogen fertilizer) Plants need the nitrogen for growth.

[rods]

The reference is Field Guide to Forest Trees of Northern Thailand bought online. There's information about identification, growing altitudes, moisture, max tree size, and use. There isn't much about growth rates or market value, which aside from looking good, are key considerations for me. From what I understand about teak, it will mature in 20-30 years.

I am thinking along the same line as you. But at this stage I hardly understand why nitrogen fixing trees are "good" for soil.

Still looking into alternatives including flowers and Thai eggplant. The eggplant thread in this forum was so helpful that we'll probably give it a go on a rai or two.

I haven't seen anything in this forum about flowers but understand in dollar terms they are one of the fastest growing ag sectors in the US in recent years. Probably a lot more labor and capital intensive than trees, though.

I, too, have found that info on age at time of harvest and Thai market prices for logs of mahogany, pradu, etc. is hard to come by. Perhaps this is because, with the exception of eucalyptus and teak, tree farming is a fairly new industry in Thailand. Or am I wrong about this?

Anyone with experience, or knowledge, of growing these species in Thailand?

Edited December 18, 2006 by rods