Safety cut issues

[maximus101]

Hi all 

I am after a bit of advice as i am now having trouble with our safetycut CU

The safty cut has tripped and wont stay on when reset

i closed each breaker and retried and it did stay on for a few seconds with it all closed but doesnt repeat reliably

i.e. basically it wont stay on for more than a few seconds even with it all cut off

 

WE went to the shop who supplied and they sent a guy to check and he removed the safety cut module and everything is now working he is getting a new one for us

all good so far

But the electrician is saying we must have a short somewhere to cause the fault in the first place and wants to remove all the light and power points and check everything

Does this make sense?

If we have a short shouldnt the breaker for that circuit trip?

 

he also said our wiring is to small?

we have 1.5 mil for lighting ( all LED or flourescent)

and 2.5 for everything else

 

any way just interested in thoughts

 

I have put him off for now 

 

Cheers David

 

[carlyai]

How long have you had the electrical and safetycut installed without any problems? How long had the installation been finished without any problems?

Take a good look around your CU and electrics for any red ants. DON'T POKE YOUR SCREWDRIVER INTO ANY POWER POINTS.

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[maximus101]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

How long have you had the electrical and safetycut installed without any problems? How long had the installation been finished without any problems?

Take a good look around your CU and electrics for any red ants. DON'T POKE YOUR SCREWDRIVER INTO ANY POWER POINTS.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

We have been in the house for nearly 3 years with minor faults but we dont have breakers tripping (which worries me a little LOL) but have had the saftycut go a few times during storms stc

No ants ( i poison with boric acid and we dont get much in the house at all)

I have had issues with water heater recently as link will show

 

[meatboy]

you must be living on the same mooban as us,we had a few problems till one of the contacts burnt out.then we had a satellite co.done some wireing and found some live wire hanging.

so we contacted a sparky[he's good] and got us a RCD fitted.well what he found was,nearly every light that was swithed on tripped out the mains. this was the work of a regular electrician or nobhead.

i think we can count ourselves lucky.

[carlyai]

If you have all the circuit breakers turned off and the SafetyCut still trips it maybe a good idea to send a photo of your SafetyCut and CU wiring.

I'm sure some experts will visit this thread soon and some pic would help.

I had SafetyCut issues with storms and found the Safety Cut was wrongly wired.

I'm not saying this is your problem, as all was fine (except in storms) before.

You may have more than one problem so pics would help.



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[bankruatsteve]

we have 1.5 mil for lighting ( all LED or flourescent)

and 2.5 for everything else

 

FYI:  Those wire sizes are the "standard".  Definitely not too small.

 

[RichCor]

It's possible your Safe-T-Cut RCD device has failed (the electrical latch failing).

The CU may be wired incorrectly, causing the RCD to trip unnecessarily.

Or your electrical wiring has an active fault somewhere (that isn't being isolated by closing a breaker).

 

As mentioned, any plug points or plugged-in components with ants, jing jok, or other critters, or even slight dampness can cause power to leak to Earth Ground.  

 

A 'real' electrician can do the diagnostics necessary to isolate and locate the issue (and without replacing all your wiring).  The only wiring that may be too small may be your mains incomers (for your system load) but that wouldn't prevent your RCD from latching.

[carlyai]

Traveling at moment, but on the plane I was wondering about the reference to the water heater. Wonder if the neutral is the one with the circuit breaker, so with all breakers off there is still active to the water heater.

It's like conspiracy theories.....they keep developing when there is a simple answer.

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[Crossy]

As noted in your other thread, there is something untoward going on with your wiring, we need GOOD photos of the consumer unit with the lid off as a first step.

 

Trips with all the breakers off is very often a N-E fault, difficult to find without decent test gear.

 

Checking all your lighting and power points is a good idea, you never know who has moved in.

 

EDIT Also get your man to check voltages to a known earth, a big screwdriver in the lawn works well. Do not use a rod that's connected to your installation for this test.

 

[Wirejerker]

One thing u can do is turn off all your circuit breakers leave on the main sw and safety cut.. then check your kWh meter to se if it's running. If I was called to that job I would want to inspect every circuit to check polarity so I thing your electrician is doing what I'd do. 

[Crossy]

Yeah WJ, if it's not the wet gotten into an outlet or light fitting I'm thinking a polarity issue.

 

From his earlier photos it looks like a TT system so a flipped supply at the meter (where most reversals here originate) wouldn't cause immediate issues like it would THC-S (which is what new installations should be).

 

What he really needs is a competent sparks with the kit and (importantly) the knowledge of what he's looking for. Sadly these are not that common in the West (read some of the comments on the IET forums), let alone here in sunny Thailand.

[maximus101]

Thanks for all the replies

 

I have had my falang friend (who has just returned) who is a professional electrician come over and check the CU he had proper testing equipment

He found a a neutral earth link in the CU and removed it and all is working OK

He doesnt understand why it worked before? but is going to think about it ( No changes to my knowledge in the CU for many months)

 

He checked polarity ok

Earth is working correctly and of adequate size all wiring is of correct size except for a wire added non standard in cu

 

So safety cut wasnt faulty and he agreed with me they were trying to run up a bill before fixing the fault

 

I am now much happier with the state of my CU and will continue to learn and may redo some things to a standard when i understand them well

 

Cheers for the help guys

 

 

[carlyai]

That's Good, that problem fixed.

Did you ask him about your SafetyCut(SC) tripping with storms?

If the storm is a fair way from you, and the SC trips, then this could be another problem. Mine used to do that until I found it was incorrectly wired. When I fixed that, it only trips if there is a lightning strike around the house area.

Another bit of info I got from this electrical forum, is to not have your pumps on the SC feed, as this can cause tripping with storms as well.

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[maximus101]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

That's Good, that problem fixed.

Did you ask him about your SafetyCut(SC) tripping with storms?

If the storm is a fair way from you, and the SC trips, then this could be another problem. Mine used to do that until I found it was incorrectly wired. When I fixed that, it only trips if there is a lightning strike around the house area.

Another bit of info I got from this electrical forum, is to not have your pumps on the SC feed, as this can cause tripping with storms as well.

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I didnt mention the storms but will next time im buying him a beer

 

we did have issues with the water pump and safty cut when first installed but they said they hadnt adjusted the saftycut ( they cut the earth pin off the pump plug which was all done before the CU was in (before the house as well)

 

Cheers

 

[carlyai]

I'd say it's not a good idea to have your pumps unearthed. Anything metal should be earthen, to protect it from becoming live if faulty. Definitely have a beer with your electrical guy soon, you don't want to be walking around in bare feet and grab a live pump.

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[Crossy]

At least it was a nice easy "fault" to fix :)

 

N-E shorts on the protected side of an RCD can have all sorts of interesting effects usually resulting in random trips.

 

That it has been OK in the past is a little surprising, but maybe the odd trip wasn't really noticed, then plugging the kettle into a different outlet (example) or a new house coming on line somewhere local changes the circulating currents slightly and all h3ll breaks loose.