New constitution a recipe for more problems, red shirts say

[sweatalot]

16 hours ago, bobmac10 said:

Ignorance is bliss

Unbelievable that some people still think the reds are interested in democracy and are a political party

 

They have clearly shown that they are a mercenary troupe working to bring their kingpin (who established them and supplies them with money), back to power to suck more riches out of the Thai people - and make them rich, too with the ill gotten money.

They are well known for cruelty, killing  and antidemocratic behavior. (pressing people to vote for the shins, suppressing people with another opinion.

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, sweatalot said:

Unbelievable that some people still think the reds are interested in democracy and are a political party

 

They have clearly shown that they are a mercenary troupe working to bring their kingpin (who established them and supplies them with money), back to power to suck more riches out of the Thai people - and make them rich, too with the ill gotten money.

They are well known for cruelty, killing  and antidemocratic behavior. (pressing people to vote for the shins, suppressing people with another opinion.

Been reading The Nation again?

[smedly]

14 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Unbelievable that some people still think the reds are interested in democracy and are a political party

 

They have clearly shown that they are a mercenary troupe working to bring their kingpin (who established them and supplies them with money), back to power to suck more riches out of the Thai people - and make them rich, too with the ill gotten money.

They are well known for cruelty, killing  and antidemocratic behavior. (pressing people to vote for the shins, suppressing people with another opinion.

 

14 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Been reading The Nation again?

He is 100% correct, he also left a lot of stuff out - like the slaughter of innocent people including children, using grenade launchers - grenades - Assault Rifles - Explosives on innocent Thai citizens, they also set up training camps in the north prepare for conflict just before the military stepped in and put a stop to the lunacy and the killings, they have the typical profile of a terrorist organisation - how they have the cheek to label themselves using the word democracy is quite beyond belief...........................all in the name of one man who lost so much face he is faceless and will never set foot in Thailand again, what is driving it ? well money - power and face, the shame of it all

Edited January 29, 2017 by smedly

[SaintLouisBlues]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

He is 100% correct, he also left a lot of stuff out 

It was in the Bangkok Post

[smedly]

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

Unbelievable that some people still think the reds are interested in democracy and are a political party

 

They have clearly shown that they are a mercenary troupe working to bring their kingpin (who established them and supplies them with money), back to power to suck more riches out of the Thai people - and make them rich, too with the ill gotten money.

They are well known for cruelty, killing  and antidemocratic behavior. (pressing people to vote for the shins, suppressing people with another opinion.

 

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

SaintLouisBlues  said

 

Been reading The Nation again?

 

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

He is 100% correct, he also left a lot of stuff out - like the slaughter of innocent people including children, using grenade launchers - grenades - Assault Rifles - Explosives on innocent Thai citizens, they also set up training camps in the north prepare for conflict just before the military stepped in and put a stop to the lunacy and the killings, they have the typical profile of a terrorist organisation - how they have the cheek to label themselves using the word democracy is quite beyond belief...........................all in the name of one man who lost so much face he is faceless and will never set foot in Thailand again, what is driving it ? well money - power and face, the shame of it all

 

17 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

It was in the Bangkok Post

any particular reason why you excluded the conversation chain, did you not like its contents ?

 

well here it is all again repeated to the full and in your face

Edited January 29, 2017 by smedly

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

any particular reason why you excluded the conversation chain, did you not like its contents ?

 

well here it is all again repeated to the full and in your face

Boredom?

[sjaak327]

Trying to shoot the messenger is not working, the messenger is right. The notion that the Thai electorate is ok with this is ludicrous.

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Boredom?

it's call trolling and baiting

[smedly]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Trying to shoot the messenger is not working, the messenger is right. The notion that the Thai electorate is ok with this is ludicrous.

in your opinion

[sjaak327]

Just now, smedly said:

in your opinion

facts. The constitution is undemocratic, fact the referendum that got it approved violated many democratic principles, and lacked any outsight oversight.

 

Quite surprised some on here have the guts to defend that process, it is either ignorance or some agenda.

[SaintLouisBlues]

4 minutes ago, smedly said:

it's call trolling and baiting

If you mean I think you're merely parotting the Yellow Shirt propaganda that forms the basis of the English language press in Thailand

[smedly]

55 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Trying to shoot the messenger is not working, the messenger is right. The notion that the Thai electorate is ok with this is ludicrous.

again all just your opinion, might be worth pointing that out before you give "YOUR OPINION"

[robblok]

55 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

facts. The constitution is undemocratic, fact the referendum that got it approved violated many democratic principles, and lacked any outsight oversight.

 

Quite surprised some on here have the guts to defend that process, it is either ignorance or some agenda.

Are you denying they could have voted no on the additional question ? They could have done so without voting no for the constitution  (some think people voted yes so there could be a democratic government faster.. but voting no on this question would not have been a problem)

[smedly]

50 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

If you mean I think you're merely parotting the Yellow Shirt propaganda that forms the basis of the English language press in Thailand

what is a yellow shirt, I see only red shirt terrorists and then rest of the Thai population

 

this red yellow nonsense died a long time ago, there are no rival factions in this country something that the reds and Thaksin would like to play on but it no longer exists

 

There are only the Thaksin funded reds who operate under the control of their convicted criminal leader living abroad on the run from justice

 

The rest of the Good Thai population want nothing more to do with it and are in a very large majority

[smedly]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Are you denying they could have voted no on the additional question ? They could have done so without voting no for the constitution  (some think people voted yes so there could be a democratic government faster.. but voting no on this question would not have been a problem)

you are wasting your time, there are now about 7 divisive id's on TVF who constantly sing the Thaksin and red tune, it is rather sinister

[JAG]

49 minutes ago, smedly said:

what is a yellow shirt, I see only red shirt terrorists and then rest of the Thai population

 

this red yellow nonsense died a long time ago, there are no rival factions in this country something that the reds and Thaksin would like to play on but it no longer exists

 

There are only the Thaksin funded reds who operate under the control of their convicted criminal leader living abroad on the run from justice

 

The rest of the Good Thai population want nothing more to do with it and are in a very large majority

The rope tethering you to reality seems to have become detached....

[candide]

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Are you denying they could have voted no on the additional question ? They could have done so without voting no for the constitution  (some think people voted yes so there could be a democratic government faster.. but voting no on this question would not have been a problem)

On a fingerprinted ballot among other fear factors, on questions the opposition was not allowed to campaign against while massive communication was done by the Junta, with no neutral checks on results,  etc... Are you ignorant of that? I don't think.

[sjaak327]

50 minutes ago, robblok said:

Are you denying they could have voted no on the additional question ? They could have done so without voting no for the constitution  (some think people voted yes so there could be a democratic government faster.. but voting no on this question would not have been a problem)

No they could have voted no on the additional question. Do you remember that question, and how they went far beyond that question. The question handled the joint chambers to convene to consider approving the PM. It did not handle anything about an outsider PM being nominated by the unelected senate.

 

Or in other words, just like the draft itself, the Thai electorate voted on something that was changed after the vote, and changed considerably.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

On a fingerprinted ballot among other fear factors, on questions the opposition was not allowed to campaign against while massive communication was done by the Junta, with no neutral checks on results,  etc... Are you ignorant of that? I don't think.

The fingerprint is a non issue.. hard to check to say the least.. i looked up how long it takes to process a finger print in the USA database.. then compare that with Thailand and you will see it could not be done technically (on a large scale)

 

Also if you followed the news you knew the PTP was against this.. so their supporters knew this unless they lived under a rock but they still voted in favor of it. 

 

Neutral.. no.. but still people could oppose and they did not. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

No they could have voted no on the additional question. Do you remember that question, and how they went far beyond that question. The question handled the joint chambers to convene to consider approving the PM. It did not handle anything about an outsider PM being nominated by the unelected senate.

 

Or in other words, just like the draft itself, the Thai electorate voted on something that was changed after the vote, and changed considerably.

Still there as not a no vote.. as you said they could have voted no.. did not do so.  Do give a good translation of the original question and i will consider if your right or not. fact is they knew their party was against it (even an foreigner with only access to english news knew this) and they still voted for it. 

[sjaak327]

56 minutes ago, smedly said:

you are wasting your time, there are now about 7 divisive id's on TVF who constantly sing the Thaksin and red tune, it is rather sinister

No smedly, we sing the democracy tune. I hate Thaksin with a passion, he was corrupt without a doubt. BUT he could be voted out of office AND there were check and balances in place to make sure he is accountable.

 

This time around, Thailand is run by people that equally corrupt, but this time without a mandate, without any accountability, freedoms that people took for granted being stripped.

 

Why do you think that even the democrats were against the constitution ? Are they red shirts too, or maybe just maybe the constitution is not democratic, or to use Abhisit's words, a retreat from democracy.

 

 

[candide]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The fingerprint is a non issue.. hard to check to say the least.. i looked up how long it takes to process a finger print in the USA database.. then compare that with Thailand and you will see it could not be done technically (on a large scale)

 

Also if you followed the news you knew the PTP was against this.. so their supporters knew this unless they lived under a rock but they still voted in favor of it. 

 

Neutral.. no.. but still people could oppose and they did not. 

You may be right  (or not) about the fingerprint, it does not mean that people without your analytical skills and information level may be afraid of voting against the Junta's exortations and threats. Anyway it is not a matter of a single factors, it is about several factors that make this refendu rigged.

In case you did not notice, there isn't a single serious source (newspaper,  foreign government, independent organisation) that has declared this referendum was fair. Quite the contrary.

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

No smedly, we sing the democracy tune. I hate Thaksin with a passion, he was corrupt without a doubt. BUT he could be voted out of office AND there were check and balances in place to make sure he is accountable.

He was just another Thai politician, like all the rest. His "crime" was that he wouldn't divide up the spoils in the usual way, and for that the Establishment hated him and continue to spin against him as if he's some sort of aberration

[sjaak327]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Still there as not a no vote.. as you said they could have voted no.. did not do so.  Do give a good translation of the original question and i will consider if your right or not. fact is they knew their party was against it (even an foreigner with only access to english news knew this) and they still voted for it. 

still beating the dead horse I see. Do your own research and you will see that the summarization of the question is accurate.

 

Why do you keep pretending as if the referendum was legitimate and correctly represents the will of the Thai people.

 

One sided propaganda, draconian referendum law, no secret voting and no oversight at all. On top of that, only 16 million out of 50 million voters actually voted yes. A landslide ? Nope, a margin that is way to narrow to be valid for such a profound decision.

[candide]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Still there as not a no vote.. as you said they could have voted no.. did not do so.  Do give a good translation of the original question and i will consider if your right or not. fact is they knew their party was against it (even an foreigner with only access to english news knew this) and they still voted for it. 

"In order to ensure continuity in the implementation of national reform under the national strategy during the five-year transition period, do you agree that a joint sitting of parliament should be allowed to vote to select a prime minister and that this should be included in a provisional clause [of the draft charter]?"  

 

I don't know how it looks in Thai, but I would not bet all respondents understood the question....

[George Graham]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

what is a yellow shirt, I see only red shirt terrorists and then rest of the Thai population

 

this red yellow nonsense died a long time ago, there are no rival factions in this country something that the reds and Thaksin would like to play on but it no longer exists

 

There are only the Thaksin funded reds who operate under the control of their convicted criminal leader living abroad on the run from justice

 

The rest of the Good Thai population want nothing more to do with it and are in a very large majority

The very large majority of the good Thai people want to be governed by Thaksin. This is evidenced by him and/or his surrogates winning elections time after time. Elections where, by the way, debate and discussion were allowed, elections which also were observed and were found to be free and fair.

[smedly]

The vast majority of people have woken up to the violence killing and murder on the streets of this country and are fed up with it, I believe the tide had a massive turn when the kids were slaughtered at a market in Trat and the reds cheered on stage, from that time people realised that principal was worth a lot more that 500baht to buy their loyalty

 

It is over, Thaksin will never set foot in this country again, his red terrorist army are done

 

There are still a lot of things that need fixing and reformed, it is by no means an easy task and will take decades to complete

 

Thailand is moving on and it is great to see, the only people that can end the violence and complete the task are those that are in charge right now - not ideal but there is no other solution

[smedly]

39 minutes ago, George Graham said:

The very large majority of the good Thai people want to be governed by Thaksin. This is evidenced by him and/or his surrogates winning elections time after time. Elections where, by the way, debate and discussion were allowed, elections which also were observed and were found to be free and fair.

and that is total outdated nonsense

 

it is your opinion backed by nothing of substance

[sjaak327]

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

and that is total outdated nonsense

 

it is your opinion backed by nothing of substance

no smedley, the last four elections that were valid ALL saw Thaksin's party win it. And two times with a majority of seats. There is no indication whatsoever that this is outdated nonsense, in fact, the reason why elections are postponed time and time again, and the reason the constitution has been drafted the way it is, is because the powers fear the electorate will vote for Thaksin's party in great numbers again.

 

Now before you scream outdated information, based on absolutely nothing, I would wager a bet that history will repeat itself.

Edited January 29, 2017 by sjaak327

[rubl]

On 28/01/2017 at 11:52 AM, baboon said:

Who voted for you to have an opinion? Who voted for me to have an opinion? Who voted for the army to have an opinion and subsequently barge in and stage a coup? What are you talking about? 

now wondering who you didn't mention and therefore implicitly grant the right to an opinion.