Trump immigrant curbs cause chaos, panic, anger worldwide

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.   Continue and face a suspension.  

 

[Traveler19491]

10 hours ago, Trouble said:

It's an idiotic notion that Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia were excluded because one has some crazy idea that Trump would not want to anger their leaders because of possible investments. This is just more fake crap floating around out there. Please do name his investments and how they might be harmed.   

 

As you are apparently unfamiliar with that amazing new technological thingy called "Google", I'll help you out.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia

http://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey-threatening-trumps-business-to-sway-policy-report/

https://mic.com/articles/130070/here-are-some-of-donald-trump-s-middle-east-business-ventures#.NhOUOTngT

 

There's this little thingy called "nationalization" wherein a country can take over a foreign business without compensation to the foreign owners. In the alternative, the country can simply revoke a foreign national's license to do business in that country, and, as noted in this statement from the US State Department regarding Saudi Arabia (https://www.state.gov/e/eb/rls/othr/ics/2012/191229.htm), there already exists a lack of transparency in the Saudi government when it comes to foreign investment. Anger the Middle Eastern governments where you have hundreds of millions invested (if not billions) and you risk having that government simply take over your business interests or make it so difficult to do business in that country that you have no option but to walk away. THIS is why it is vital for a President to divest himself of any and all business interests via a blind trust, so that these very types of things can't happen. Your assertion regarding "fake crap" would appear to stem from a gross lack of simple but informative research on the subject under discussion. But then, that's par for the course for the vast majority of Trump supporters. Spot information that you don't like/agree with and simply label it "fake". Try again sometime when you have actual facts to back you up.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, Savilesghost said:

Funny that, every Canadian i know, and i know a few have big concerns about refugees and immigrants arriving in Canada with their hands out looking for freebies 

This is funny. One of the poster who "liked" your post, said he lives in Southern California and he didn't know anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton.  So how much significance should we attach to the personal experience of one poster?  I'd say none.

[Savilesghost]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is funny. One of the poster who "liked" your post, said he lives in Southern California and he didn't know anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton.  So how much significance should we attach to the personal experience of one poster?  I'd say none.

What are you bleating on about, i personally know of at least 8 Canadians living in Thailand and all share the same sentiment i referred to in  a previous post 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Savilesghost

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Savilesghost said:

What are you bleating on about, i know of at least 8 Canadians living in Thailand and all share the same sentiment i referred to in  a previous post 

Because it has no statistical significance at all.  Just the report of an anonymous person on a forum.

[jcsmith]

5 hours ago, mogandave said:

There are over 350 million American citizens in the US. If their were 350 million Islamist terrorists in the US do you think the numbers would go up?

You guys crack me up.

I think it's actually 325 million, with Muslims making up a bit over 1% of the U.S. population. So let's take those same numbers and multiply them by 100 and test your theory, there are actually a bit over 1% so this is even being generous to your theory, and in this case we'd be doubling the size of the U.S. population. There would then be 900 muslim terrorist related deaths in a year. There are around 16,000 murders every year in America. So that would account for about 5% of the total murders in the U.S. 

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

6 hours ago, kamahele said:

ISIS is celebrating Trump's election. No doubt they will use his election and his generalization of Muslims to attract more members.

 

Good…let them. At least they won't be entering the US. They can all work for howard schulze at Starbucks in Sudan, Syria etc.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 hours ago, Savilesghost said:

It wasnt intended as a scientic study, it was a personal observation based on opinions i have been given, so once again i ask you what are you bleating on about ?...or are you puposely trolling trying to stir things up ? 

 

It is entirely unsurprising that a old racist bigot would associate with other old racist bigots and flap their gums about how life has passed them by in the local cheap charly beer garden. I am sure you and your eight Canadians and who knows how many Australians, Americans and others that you hang out with are perfectly happy in the bubble you occupy reinforcing each others prejudices.

 

All you have done is tell us that you know eight Canadians. It has nothing at all to do with the topic or Canadian response to 45's ill-conceived and incompetently enforced muslim ban, unless of course one of your hight Canadian's happens to be the Ambassador to Thailand or somehow authorized to speak on behalf of the country. It would seem that you are using your high Canadians like 45 used his African American during the campaign.

 

Some of my best friends are Canadian.

 

So who is the actual troll?

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, jcsmith said:

I think it's actually 325 million, with Muslims making up a bit over 1% of the U.S. population. So let's take those same numbers and multiply them by 100 and test your theory, there are actually a bit over 1% so this is even being generous to your theory, and in this case we'd be doubling the size of the U.S. population. There would then be 900 muslim terrorist related deaths in a year. There are around 16,000 murders every year in America. So that would account for about 5% of the total murders in the U.S. 

 

 

I know this is a waste of time, but:

1. I did not state a theory, I simply asked you: "If their were 350 million Islamist terrorists in the US do you think the numbers would go up?" This has nothing to do with multiplying by 100.

2. Apparently by your calculation, 5% of the murders in the US can be attributed to 1% of the population, that seems significant to me.

3. The "study" you site makes no mention of the total number of murders committed by Muslims in the US, unless you are assuming all Muslims in the US are terrorists which neither of us believes.

4. The "study" uses two different 10 year periods, neither of which include the World Trade Center attack.

5. The "study" does not include Fort Hood attack that killed 13 in 2009 as terrorist killings, as it was ruled "workplace violence" 

 

I would liken the "study" you sited to a "study" done by Chevron that shows the Earth is actually cooling, but where Chevron gets to pick the years and data stations they choose. 

 

You seem like a bright guy, why regurgitate such nonsense? There are sound arguments that can be made against Trump's order, but arguing that one has more to fear from toddlers and thunderstorms than terrorists is not one of them.

 

Why not poll everyone in California and asks them what they would like to see more of in their state:

1. Toddlers

2. Thunderstorms 

3. Jihadi terrorists

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I know this is a waste of time, but:

1. I did not state a theory, I simply asked you: "If their were 350 million Islamist terrorists in the US do you think the numbers would go up?" This has nothing to do with multiplying by 100.

2. Apparently by your calculation, 5% of the murders in the US can be attributed to 1% of the population, that seems significant to me.

3. The "study" you site makes no mention of the total number of murders committed by Muslims in the US, unless you are assuming all Muslims in the US are terrorists which neither of us believes.

4. The "study" uses two different 10 year periods, neither of which include the World Trade Center attack.

5. The "study" does not include Fort Hood attack that killed 13 in 2009 as terrorist killings, as it was ruled "workplace violence" 

 

I would liken the "study" you sited to a "study" done by Chevron that shows the Earth is actually cooling, but where Chevron gets to pick the years and data stations they choose. 

 

You seem like a bright guy, why regurgitate such nonsense? There are sound arguments that can be made against Trump's order, but arguing that one has more to fear from toddlers and thunderstorms than terrorists is not one of them.

 

Why not poll everyone in California and asks them what they would like to see more of in their state:

1. Toddlers

2. Thunderstorms 

3. Jihadi terrorists

 

 

 

Terrorism by Muslims makes up one-third of 1 percent of all murders in the US

The study found that only 46 Muslim Americans (defined as “Muslims who lived in the US for an extended period”) were linked to violent extremism at home or abroad in 2016. The total Muslim American population is 3.3 million.

Of those 46, only 24 were actually implicated in a concrete terrorist plot (the others did things like attempting to travel to Syria to join ISIS). Those plots claimed 54 lives, the vast majority of which (49) came in a single attack — the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslims-america-islam-trump

[mogandave]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Terrorism by Muslims makes up one-third of 1 percent of all murders in the US

The study found that only 46 Muslim Americans (defined as “Muslims who lived in the US for an extended period”) were linked to violent extremism at home or abroad in 2016. The total Muslim American population is 3.3 million.

Of those 46, only 24 were actually implicated in a concrete terrorist plot (the others did things like attempting to travel to Syria to join ISIS). Those plots claimed 54 lives, the vast majority of which (49) came in a single attack — the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslims-america-islam-trump

Did you have something to say or are you just regurgitation something you Googled-up? 

 

Do you even read what you post? 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Did you have something to say or are you just regurgitation something you Googled-up? 

 

Do you even read what you post? 

 

 

Do you even read what you write?  Your post was full of bizarre math that had no relation to reality.

 

16 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I know this is a waste of time, but:

1. I did not state a theory, I simply asked you: "If their were 350 million Islamist terrorists in the US do you think the numbers would go up?" This has nothing to do with multiplying by 100.

2. Apparently by your calculation, 5% of the murders in the US can be attributed to 1% of the population, that seems significant to me.

3. The "study" you site makes no mention of the total number of murders committed by Muslims in the US, unless you are assuming all Muslims in the US are terrorists which neither of us believes.

4. The "study" uses two different 10 year periods, neither of which include the World Trade Center attack.

5. The "study" does not include Fort Hood attack that killed 13 in 2009 as terrorist killings, as it was ruled "workplace violence" 

 

I would liken the "study" you sited to a "study" done by Chevron that shows the Earth is actually cooling, but where Chevron gets to pick the years and data stations they choose. 

 

You seem like a bright guy, why regurgitate such nonsense? There are sound arguments that can be made against Trump's order, but arguing that one has more to fear from toddlers and thunderstorms than terrorists is not one of them.

 

Why not poll everyone in California and asks them what they would like to see more of in their state:

1. Toddlers

2. Thunderstorms 

3. Jihadi terrorists

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you even read what you write?  Your post was full of bizarre math that had no relation to reality.

 

 

 

Uhh, I know how confusing this must be what with limited resources and all, but there was no math in my post. I did make reference to the bone-headed numbers someone else posted but the the numbers were not mine. 

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Uhh, I know how confusing this must be what with limited resources and all, but there was no math in my post. I did make reference to the bone-headed numbers someone else posted but the the numbers were not mine. 

 

Yet you seemed to take those numbers quite seriously instead of pointing out that they did not mirror reality at all. But the text I cited did.  Now do you get it?

[mogandave]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yet you seemed to take those numbers quite seriously instead of pointing out that they did not mirror reality at all. But the text I cited did.  Now do you get it?

I'm sorry, but when I stated: "...why regurgitate such nonsense?" I thought it was clear I thought the numbers suspect. 

 

It's all clear now, and we (apparently) have a newspaper clipping that proves it. Do you know if Kim is on board with the new numbers? 

[JHolmesJr]

Another benefit of such a move: domestic security agencies in the US will be under less strain.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, mogandave said:

I'm sorry, but when I stated: "...why regurgitate such nonsense?" I thought it was clear I thought the numbers suspect. 

 

It's all clear now, and we (apparently) have a newspaper clipping that proves it. Do you know if Kim is on board with the new numbers? 

Do you really need me to explain to you how links work? I did provide one. But here it is again.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/27/14412420/terrorism-muslims-america-islam-trump

Try clicking on it. You'll be amazed at what happens next.

 

[Andaman Al]

^^^      

[LammyTS1]

"The bans affects travelers with passports from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen."

 

If you look at the Visa restrictions index 2016, you will see that all these countries fall into the bottom 8 places of that index, 97 - 104. 

 

https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP Visa Restrictions Index 160223.pdf

 

As for the people asking why Saudi Arabia is not on Trumps list? It is because they are far higher up the index, at No69.

 

The US is only following what most other countries worldwide are seeing as the countries with the biggest threats.

[Andaman Al]

8 minutes ago, LammyTS1 said:

"The bans affects travelers with passports from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen."

 

If you look at the Visa restrictions index 2016, you will see that all these countries fall into the bottom 8 places of that index, 97 - 104. 

 

https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP Visa Restrictions Index 160223.pdf

 

As for the people asking why Saudi Arabia is not on Trumps list? It is because they are far higher up the index, at No69.

 

The US is only following what most other countries worldwide are seeing as the countries with the biggest threats.

So why did Trump not include the second to last on the list number 103..........Pakistan? Do you know about Trumps business ties to Pakistan?

[Langsuan Man]

5 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

So why did Trump not include the second to last on the list number 103..........Pakistan? Do you know about Trumps business ties to Pakistan?

I agree Al but due to Trump's refusal to make public his tax returns or divest himself  completely of his business interests these types of questions will dog him for the next four years or impeachment;  whichever comes first 

[stevenl]

 
As does every other lefty in the country, I'm shocked

Nothing to do with left or right, any thinking person can see this order was not thought through.
The intention of it is a different discussion.

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[Ulysses G.]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

So why did Trump not include the second to last on the list number 103..........Pakistan? Do you know about Trumps business ties to Pakistan?

 

Because it was not on the Obama administration's list of "countries of particular concern". That is what Trump's executive order is based on.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316733-spicer-obama-administration-originally-flagged-7-countries

[Andaman Al]

32 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Because it was not on the Obama administration's list of "countries of particular concern". That is what Trump's executive order is based on.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316733-spicer-obama-administration-originally-flagged-7-countries

So the Obama administration have a list of 'countries of concern' and Trump comes in like a bull in a China shop and puts out a blanket visa ban on all of them. Then Spicer and Trump when it all starts going pear shaped start saying 'but but they were on the Obama list of concern'. I even think Ulysses that you will try and deflect this complete balls up as being down to Obama won't you. What a complete crock of s**t. Pathetic.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  

[Ulysses G.]

53 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

So the Obama administration have a list of 'countries of concern' and Trump comes in like a bull in a China shop and puts out a blanket visa ban on all of them. Then Spicer and Trump when it all starts going pear shaped start saying 'but but they were on the Obama list of concern'. I even think Ulysses that you will try and deflect this complete balls up as being down to Obama won't you. What a complete crock of s**t. Pathetic.

 

I do not think it was the wrong thing to do, so not "blaming" Obama for anything. Just reporting the FACTS about why Pakistan was not included and disproving another wild conspiracy theory. The countries included were the most concerning to both the Trump and Obama administrations. More might be added later.

[WaywardWind]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Because it was not on the Obama administration's list of "countries of particular concern". That is what Trump's executive order is based on.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316733-spicer-obama-administration-originally-flagged-7-countries

I have pointed out previously that your continued blaming of Obama is based on a lie, and yet you continue to do so. Why is that?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

I have pointed out previously that your continued blaming of Obama is based on a lie, and yet you continue to do so. Why is that?

Yes, and President Obama himself has come out of his "retirement" to call trump out on that lie! Shameless behavior by trump but there has been such a barrage of trump shameless behavior in his filthy campaign and now the horrific fascistic start of his presidency ... he's creating a shock and awe situation where dissenters don't even know where to start. I'll give him credit for that ... he's turning out to be an effective fascist American president, if you like that sort of thing. 

[LammyTS1]

I have pointed out previously that your continued blaming of Obama is based on a lie, and yet you continue to do so. Why is that?

Agreed.

Think we should all forget Obama and move forward....



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[LammyTS1]

I have pointed out previously that your continued blaming of Obama is based on a lie, and yet you continue to do so. Why is that?

All countries that Mr Trump has declared as at risk, were the same countries that the Obama administration declared.

So why is it that Mr Trump has declared the same countries that Obama stated as at high risk, we now see outrage?

Please explain?


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