Trump says his travel ban needed to ensure U.S. religious freedom

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I am not so sure about that. I live in California - Santa Barbara - and am shocked at being surrounded by wall to wall Christians.

After decades of living in Thailand, I thought that kind of thinking has faded away, but it hasn't. I am a lapsed Catholic at most, so not totally supportive, but believe in freedom of religion never the less. Trump seems to be all for it too.

 

 

Your post is good until the last 8 words. This is precisely the point. Trump is not for freedom of religion. He is suppressing one religion and made that clear at his recent speech to Church leaders.

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 Trump is not for freedom of religion. He is suppressing one religion and made that clear at his recent speech to Church leaders.

If you mean radical Islam, you might have a point. He intends to try to prevent religious violence - Jihad. However, he has nothing against moderate Muslims or their religion.

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

If you mean radical Islam, you might have a point. He intends to try to prevent religious violence - Jihad. However, he has nothing against moderate Muslims or their religion.

But he has blocked lots of moderate Muslims and said at the Church leaders speech that it was a Muslim ban.

[Andaman Al]

Well the resistance has well and truly started.

 

Quote

Judge in Seattle halts Trump’s immigration order nationwide

Quote

U.S. District Judge James Robart ruled Friday afternoon in favor of Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson, who sued this week to invalidate key provisions of Trump’s executive order.

In an oral ruling, Robart granted Ferguson’s request for temporary restraining order “on a nationwide basis,” prohibiting federal employees from enforcing Trump’s order

 

Quote

In his ruling, Robart said Washington had met the high burden to justify a restraining order by showing Trump’s order was causing “immediate and irreparable injury,” and that the state had a substantial likelihood of winning its underlying lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the travel ban.

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/federal-judge-in-seattle-halts-trumps-immigration-order/

[Ulysses G.]

21 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

But he has blocked lots of moderate Muslims and said at the Church leaders speech that it was a Muslim ban.

Please provide a quote and a link to Trump saying that his executive order was a Muslim ban during the Church leaders speech.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

7 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I am not so sure about that. I live in California - Santa Barbara - and am shocked at being surrounded by wall to wall Christians.

After decades of living in Thailand, I thought that kind of thinking has faded away, but it hasn't. I am a lapsed Catholic at most, so not totally supportive, but believe in freedom of religion never the less. Trump seems to be all for it too.

 

 

 

The issue is that the people hating on Trump are ill informed due to the deliberate disinformation being disseminated by the mainstream media:

 

Donald Trump is Already at War

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

You are preaching to the choir. I agree 100%!

[Bulldozer Dawn]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

You are preaching to the choir. I agree 100%!

 

Please don't use that phrase.  It has christian origins and thus may not be politically correct...

[Andaman Al]

9 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

The issue is that the people hating on Trump are ill informed due to the deliberate disinformation being disseminated by the mainstream media:

 

Donald Trump is Already at War

 

 

What disinformation? The people are seeing and hearing exactly what Trump does and says. You cannot be serious?

[craigt3365]

57 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

If you mean radical Islam, you might have a point. He intends to try to prevent religious violence - Jihad. However, he has nothing against moderate Muslims or their religion.

No, he's publically stated he wants a registry to track ALL muslims:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/17/trump-camp-denies-muslim-ban-registry

 

Quote

 

Spokesman claims Donald Trump never called for Muslim registry despite video evidence

Spokesman for president-elect’s transition team said he ‘never advocated for any registry or system that tracks individuals based on their religion’, which is false

....................

Asked if Muslims would be legally obligated to sign in to the database, Trump responded: “They have to be.” He also said: “There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases, we should have a lot of systems.”

 

 

He's dividing Americans, not bringing them together.  He could do this easily, but he's not.  Sadly, that's how Trump has been his whole life.  It's all about him.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I think that I would not have noticed it when I lived in America before, but I sure notice it now. It actually freaks me out because I have to watch what I say about my own beliefs. People get offended.

You noticed it last time you went back?  I've not been back in many years, but from what I've heard from friends, not much has changed with regards to religion in California.

 

Expressing your religious beliefs, in a polite manner, should not upset anybody.  If they do, then these are people not worth associating with?  I could not be around hard core bible thumpers.   Nor hard core religions types of any kind. 

[craigt3365]

37 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

The issue is that the people hating on Trump are ill informed due to the deliberate disinformation being disseminated by the mainstream media:

 

Donald Trump is Already at War

 

 

Trump brings this on himself, with his big mouth and foul tweets.  Stop these and the bad press reports will stop also.  Saying MSM is disseminating disinformation is trolling.

[ilostmypassword]

39 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

The issue is that the people hating on Trump are ill informed due to the deliberate disinformation being disseminated by the mainstream media:

 

Donald Trump is Already at War

 

 

I imagine Trump saying what Groucho Marx once said: "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

Please provide a quote and a link to Trump saying that his executive order was a Muslim ban during the Church leaders speech.

 

"I am establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of America," Trump said during the signing at the Pentagon after the swearing-in of Defense Secretary James Mattis. "We don't want them here."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-plans-to-sign-executive-action-on-refugees-extreme-vetting/

 

There is a VDO included in the link of 45 uttering this statement.

 

I think it would be a delicious irony if the fact that his insistence on speaking the truth and identifying terrorists as specifically Islamic terrorists results in his muslim ban being overturned due to a violation of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. For the second time in two days I am delighted to be able to quote from Hamlet and look forward with abject anticipation to 45 being hoist with his own petard.

[maewang99]

Jeb or Hillary would have been a God send?

woah! let me take that in for a few moments.... okay. done.
 

now let me tell you where to send my Social Security checks..... 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by maewang99

[JHolmesJr]

On 3 February, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Emster23 said:

"Our nation has the most generous immigration system in the world." Flat out full on lie.

 

I don't think so…have you seen the riff raff the US lets in…it's hard to imagine how these people survive, much less help the US economy thrive.

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

I don't think so…have you seen the riff raff the US lets in…it's hard to imagine how these people survive, much less help the US economy thrive.

Yes, I have seen the people that the US lets in and of the several thousand that I have followed, all are fully employed and none of them are on welfare.  

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

I don't think so…have you seen the riff raff the US lets in…it's hard to imagine how these people survive, much less help the US economy thrive.

They let my wife in.  And many more like her.  As well as doctors, teachers, engineers, etc.  Not all immigrants are riff raff.

[JHolmesJr]

Im not talking about the hard working doctors, engineers and tech staff that come in legally every year….long may that continue.

 

Im referring to the millions of deadbeats who enter with nothing to contribute to the economy except displace jobs of honest blue collar americans.

 

That is a scourge that the Donald is trying to address.

[yardrunner]

3 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

The issue is that the people hating on Trump are ill informed due to the deliberate disinformation being disseminated by the mainstream media:

 

Donald Trump is Already at War

 

 

not to mention the deliberate misinformation being disseminated by Trumps team

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

15 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Im not talking about the hard working doctors, engineers and tech staff that come in legally every year….long may that continue.

 

Im referring to the millions of deadbeats who enter with nothing to contribute to the economy except displace jobs of honest blue collar americans.

 

That is a scourge that the Donald is trying to address.

 

Emperor Caligula, desperate for a Triumph, declared war against the ocean. His Triumphal parade consisted of many sea shells and 'prisoners' captured by his legions. You may check your Suetonius (Gaius 46) for the reference.

 

You are posing another imaginary enemy. Where are these millions of riff-raff refugees that have come to American to lower wages and take American jobs in the local Arby's? Or are you conflating undocumented immigrants from Mexico with actual refugees as defined by the Geneva Convention, signed by the US?

[craigt3365]

42 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Im not talking about the hard working doctors, engineers and tech staff that come in legally every year….long may that continue.

 

Im referring to the millions of deadbeats who enter with nothing to contribute to the economy except displace jobs of honest blue collar americans.

 

That is a scourge that the Donald is trying to address.

And yet his ban included doctors, engineers and tech staff.  Not well thought out. 

 

So no, Trump is not addressing the real problems.  Which are very complicated and can't be done with a simple (and poorly planned) executive order.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Im not talking about the hard working doctors, engineers and tech staff that come in legally every year….long may that continue.

 

Im referring to the millions of deadbeats who enter with nothing to contribute to the economy except displace jobs of honest blue collar americans.

 

That is a scourge that the Donald is trying to address.

So these people come to the USA to work and yet they're deadbeats? Which is defined as

"an idle, feckless, or disreputable person.

synonyms:

layabout, loafer, idler, good-for-nothing, bum, sponger;  literarywastrel

[optad]

In terms of inconsistency, was any reference made regarding Saudi Arabia?

[Scott]

8 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Im not talking about the hard working doctors, engineers and tech staff that come in legally every year….long may that continue.

 

Im referring to the millions of deadbeats who enter with nothing to contribute to the economy except displace jobs of honest blue collar americans.

 

That is a scourge that the Donald is trying to address.

 

I am still mystified by what deadbeats you are talking about.   I haven't seen them.   I don't live around any of them.   I don't know one citizen who was fired and had an immigrant/refugee hired.   People who enter as immigrants are barred from receiving welfare payments.  

 

You might not like people coming in, but in general, I think the term deadbeat doesn't quite hit the mark.  

[Traveler19491]

14 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Please provide a quote and a link to Trump saying that his executive order was a Muslim ban during the Church leaders speech.

Trump called for a complete ban of Muslims on several occasions (http://time.com/4140670/trump-religious-leaders/). Trump's problem is his proclamation of his intent on numerous past occasions, and in the age of the Internet, information like that doesn't go away. Additionally, he stated publicly that Christian refugees would be given deferential treatment (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/01/28/trump-christian-refugees-priority/97175800/), a clear violation of the religious neutrality intent of the First Amendment. In fairness, I feel that this ban on Muslims originated primarily with Bannon, especially since it was he who overrode the objections of White House staffers to the inclusion of green card holders. The fact is that this is a ban based solely on religious affiliation and not on terrorist activities. Were that the case, then Saudi Arabia, home to 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers, would have been on the list of banned countries. Instead, none of the countries named in the ban have spawned a single terrorist who has attacked the US. All of the countries excluded have close business ties to Trump. A mere coincidence, I'm sure.

[Ulysses G.]

Just as expected, no quote and no link to this supposed statement about Trump's executive order. One link is to 2015 - long before the EO was even thought of - and the other was about giving the repressed Syrian Christian monority priority. The closest anyone has come was a statement about banning "Radical Islamic Terrorists." No one sane is going to object to that. LOL!

[craigt3365]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Just as expected, no quote and no link to this supposed statement about Trump's executive order. One link is to 2015 - long before the EO was even thought of - and the other was about giving the repressed Syrian Christian monority priority. The closest anyone has come was a statement about banning "Radical Islamic Terrorists." No one sane is going to object to that. LOL!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giuliani-says-Donald-Trump-wanted-Muslin-ban.html

 

Quote

 

Rudy Giuliani has admitted Donald Trump wanted his controversial immigration executive order to be a ban on Muslims.

The president had earlier denied the ban, which bars refugees and citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the US, was religiously motivated.

............

'I'll tell you the whole history of it: when he first announced it he said "Muslim ban",' the former New York City mayor told Fox News host Jeanine Pirro.

 

 

[craigt3365]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-registry-berlin-attack-twitter-you-know-my-plans-immigration-racism-a7489611.html

 

Quote

 

Donald Trump still wants to ban Muslims from US and build 'registry' despite backtracking after election

'You know my plans all along and I've been proven to be right - 100 per cent correct'

.......

The president-elect had been seen to backtrack on his hard-line anti-Muslim stance when his December 2015 statement pledging to temporarily suspend Muslim immigration disappeared from his website the day of the election.

 

"Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on," he said at the time.

 

 

From 2015, but he still said it.  Just backtracked due to pressure.  This was the genesis of the EO.  And his campaign rhetoric.  Which targeted almost every minority and anybody who spoke out against him. 

[Ulysses G.]

15 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giuliani-says-Donald-Trump-wanted-Muslin-ban.html

 

 

Nice try, but no cigar. The claim is that TRUMP said his executive order was a Muslim ban to church leaders and he DIDN'T. He has said a lot of things in the past, but this order was crafted to be legal and the Supreme Court will uphold it. The executive order is not a Muslim ban and he never told any church leaders any such thing. What he might have said to Rudy Giuliani is second hand information and not verifiable. 

 

22 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

"But he has blocked lots of moderate Muslims and said at the Church leaders speech that it was a Muslim ban."

Edited February 5, 2017 by Ulysses G.