British PM anticipates call for Scottish independence referendum - report

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Good luck with whatever you want. I really have better things to discuss.

I wouldn't get into an arguement with RR without having a pretty watertight position. I think he has defended the integrity and credibility of the Courier rather well.

 

Now to the issue....

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, terryw said:

There is increasing evidence that opposition to the SNP in Scotland is growing. Their poor management  of education, the health service and increases in taxes are the main focus of opposition. Demanding a Referendum because of Brexit is simply a smokescreen for the self inflicted problems caused by the SNP.

Whereas everything is MUCH better in England ?

[7by7]

55 minutes ago, flyvnsky said:

Not wishing it, but to be even more of a pedant, I am a Scot, using your definition, born in Scotland, but now living elsewhere.  I would have voted against Scotland leaving the UK if given a vote.  How do you know the majority of Scots voted to leave the UK when I and other Scots living outside Scotland could not vote?  

 

The power to decide all the details of the referendum were handed over by Westminster to the Scottish Parliament.

 

The Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Act 2013 was an Act of the Scottish Parliament, not the UK one.

 

It was the Scottish Parliament, i.e. the SNP and their allies, who decided that all residents in Scotland aged 16 or over, regardless of nationality, who were on the electoral register could vote.

 

It was the Scottish Parliament, i.e. the SNP and their allies, who decided that Scottish ex pats, even if they were on the electoral register in Scotland as overseas voters, could not vote.

 

Who introduced the Bill which became the Act into the Scottish Parliament? Nicola Sturgeon.

 

So now you now who to blame for your being unable to vote in the referendum.

 

55 minutes ago, flyvnsky said:

And in any case what relevance is this in a Thai Forum?

This is the World News forum

Quote

Thai Visa World News, selected Breaking News stories from around the world which are globally trending or could impact the Thailand lifestyle.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by 7by7
Correct typo

[onthesoi]

34 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Why should you be given the vote in a country you *do* live in? 

Why should the electorate be allowed to vote? ..is that a trick question?

 

 

4 hours ago, terryw said:

There is increasing evidence that opposition to the SNP in Scotland is growing.

Link to evidence?

 

I only ask because the snp currently have a dominance in Scotland that other parties can only have wet dreams about!

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by onthesoi

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Whilst independence and yet another referendum would distract from their poor performance, and stir up the emotional element in sections of their supporters, and cover up the fact that future EU membership would prove very difficult, their aim as always been independence.

If support was growing they'd have been making much more noise, demands and threats about it. Now, they're still unsure of victory and running out of options.

Not really. In terms of performance, Scotland is about average (excluding London - who voted remain)

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05795/SN05795.pdf

[7by7]

Although some recent polls have shown that the support for independence in Scotland, having fallen post referendum, is now on the rise, the following, dated 27/1/17, is interesting.

 

Why have the polls not shown a shift towards Scottish independence?

Quote

Nicola Sturgeon is trying to convince unionist Remain voters to now back independence, YouGov finds that the first minister's strategy is being offset by Leave voters who backed independence now wanting to remain a part of the UK

 

[maxtwo]

If there's a referendum the entire uk should vote not just Scotland.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

mrfill

When i was at the Calledonian,we used to eat out in the evenings.There was a restaurant on Princes st called Desperate Dans.The dandy i think.On the board above the door was a picture painted od Dan, Ma,and another character.Dan was holding his garden fork and trowel,and there was a big cow pie.The paintings were true to life of the comics characters.The food served was of huge portions and good.The menu's also had Dan et al on them and the menu's name for the food was things like.'Dans big pie etc.

It was a great place.Unfortunately DC Comics or whoever it was who owned the comic,decided to sue the owner for copyright and they closed him down.Lousy bastards.I never read another dandy after that.I was 28.

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

I wouldn't get into an arguement with RR without having a pretty watertight position. I think he has defended the integrity and credibility of the Courier rather well.

 

Now to the issue....

That is a matter of opinion. It was the Courier mentioning a second referendum not me. I didn't realize you cared so much.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is a matter of opinion. It was the Courier mentioning a second referendum not me. I didn't realize you cared so much.

Well I'm 50% Scottish as my father was a Scot. I have also bought a place in Edinburgh. 

[RuamRudy]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well I'm 50% Scottish as my father was a Scot. I have also bought a place in Edinburgh. 

Not only a Scot, but a Scot from Banchory, no less - you are almost Scottish aristocracy.

[Saraphee]

15 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Makes good cake,Dundee.

Overrated in my opinion.

[jpinx]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Not only a Scot, but a Scot from Banchory, no less - you are almost Scottish aristocracy.

It was the Scottish Lords, Lairds and landowners who sold out to the English!  That was the origin of the brogue shoe so much liked by the gentry - it had a hole for every time they shot themselves in the foot. 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Saraphee

You are entitled to your opinion.I like it.

[Baerboxer]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Without wishing to be a pedant, that should 'majority of Scottish residents' because if we are talking about Scots as those born in Scotland, the majority of those voted to leave the UK.

 

Still, the overall majority was to stay - at that moment in time. This morning @britainelects (sorry, cannot link to it) tweeted the results of their most recent survey: excluding don't knows, support for independence is at 49%. Happy days....

 

But Scots born in Scotland but not living in Scotland were denied a vote. And that was done for a reason I suspect. Especially as polls among Scot expats, including the many that live in other parts of the UK suggested they would mainly vote to stay in the UK.

The age was lowered, again deliberately as polls suggested young people were more likely to vote to leave.

 

Now, since Brexit vote, non Scots living in Scotland have received personal letters warning them they must vote to leave the UK in a future referendum or Westminster will kick them out. (There is an issue that the SNP illegally created and hold that data base of foreign nationals too).

 

So yes you can try and fix the electorate rules, as much as you like, and then claim that it was fair. Sounds like the SNP approach.

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Not really. In terms of performance, Scotland is about average (excluding London - who voted remain)

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05795/SN05795.pdf

 

That link is about economic growth. Try researching performance on health, social services, education, welfare, police and crime etc etc. The areas where SNP have control for considerable years and the old "blame Westminster" is wearing thin.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Why should the electorate be allowed to vote? ..is that a trick question?

 

 

Link to evidence?

 

I only ask because the snp currently have a dominance in Scotland that other parties can only have wet dreams about!

 

 

The SNP results in the last Scottish parliament elections were worse than the previous. Have to rely on the greens now,

 

Problem in the UK, in general, very little credible political parties. The Tories moving to the right and lovely Victorian values (bring back the workhouses),  Labor lost, totally lost and with a time warped leader, and the Liberals who've done a disappearing act. 

 

However, voting for the SNP to run aspects of the country, now quite significant aspects, is different than voting to leave the Union - as we say at the once in a generation previous referendum.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The power to decide all the details of the referendum were handed over by Westminster to the Scottish Parliament.

 

The Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Act 2013 was an Act of the Scottish Parliament, not the UK one.

 

It was the Scottish Parliament, i.e. the SNP and their allies, who decided that all residents in Scotland aged 16 or over, regardless of nationality, who were on the electoral register could vote.

 

It was the Scottish Parliament, i.e. the SNP and their allies, who decided that Scottish ex pats, even if they were on the electoral register in Scotland as overseas voters, could not vote.

 

Who introduced the Bill which became the Act into the Scottish Parliament? Nicola Sturgeon.

 

So now you now who to blame for your being unable to vote in the referendum.

 

This is the World News forum

 

 

Of course there was never any suggestion that this was done to try and stack the electorate with people who would vote the way the SNP wanted and exclude those who might not. Nope, no suggestion at all!

 

Thank you, again, for posting the actual facts btw.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

Whereas everything is MUCH better in England ?

 

No it isn't. Nor in Wales, or Northern Ireland. 

 

So what's your point?

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That link is about economic growth. Try researching performance on health, social services, education, welfare, police and crime etc etc. The areas where SNP have control for considerable years and the old "blame Westminster" is wearing thin.

 

 

 

Welfare is a reserved matter; the rest - challenging issues that the government is making variable strides in improving. For example, NHS England is in a woeful condition compared to North of the border; education standards, on the other hand, are not as impressive as those in the rest of the UK. Recorded crimes are dropping although the reorganisation of Police Scotland is proving o have some bedding issues. I.e. like any government, not all in the garden is rosy - what is your point exactly? Scots need to achieve  level of performance that no other government can muster?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Not only a Scot, but a Scot from Banchory, no less - you are almost Scottish aristocracy.

You are too kind ?

 

Clan Donnachaidh!

 

"Fierce When Roused"

 

So watch out!  ?

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

I wouldn't get into an arguement with RR without having a pretty watertight position. I think he has defended the integrity and credibility of the Courier rather well.

 

Now to the issue....

 

Credibility - a word that can be applied to many things, such is the power of the English language.

 

The Courier is a pro independence editorial newspaper with a circulation largely in a pro independence area. It's choice of words, like all newspapers, are chosen to put forward its own editorial policies and points as forcibly as they can.

 

Unless of course, you believe everything you read in every newspaper - must be interesting if you read the Guardian, the Mail and couple of regional ones.

 

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You are too kind ?

 

Clan Donnachaidh!

 

"Fierce When Roused"

 

So watch out!  ?

 

Grouses - so enjoy the glorious 12th!

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

The SNP results in the last Scottish parliament elections were worse than the previous. Have to rely on the greens now,

 

Bear in mind that the electoral system used for Holyrood is actually designed to make it nigh on impossible for any single party to get a majority. That they had one previously totally defied the odds; that they are still way ahead of the other parties is a remarkable achievement.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Why should you be given a vote concerning a country you don't live in? 

 

Regarding relevance, you might want to check the forum section in which you're posting.

 

So you think all the American expats who recently voted in their countries presidential election should be denied the right to vote because they no longer reside there?

And all British, French, Germans etc the same.

 

Whereas you also think that anyone living in any country should be allowed to vote?

 

That's what you're saying?

[Baerboxer]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

Bear in mind that the electoral system used for Holyrood is actually designed to make it nigh on impossible for any single party to get a majority. That they had one previously totally defied the odds; that they are still way ahead of the other parties is a remarkable achievement.

 

So, in a very positive way, you agree. They lost votes last time from the time before. Which may indicate the electorate aren't so happy about their performance?

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Credibility - a word that can be applied to many things, such is the power of the English language.

 

The Courier is a pro independence editorial newspaper with a circulation largely in a pro independence area. It's choice of words, like all newspapers, are chosen to put forward its own editorial policies and points as forcibly as they can.

 

Unless of course, you believe everything you read in every newspaper - must be interesting if you read the Guardian, the Mail and couple of regional ones.

 

Credibility is from the Latin - credo, I believe. 

 

Much misused as "incredible" 

[Grouse]

52 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No it isn't. Nor in Wales, or Northern Ireland. 

 

So what's your point?

The point that I was trying to make is that the UK low tax, low benefit economy is out of line with European social democratic norms.

 

Lets take Denmark as an example. The Danes pay MUCH higher taxes, have MUCH better services and by all accounts are much happier ( we'll leave the issue of the Muslim migrant scourage on one side). I think the Scots would be happier with a similar set up rather than Westminster transatlantic, misery. I may be wrong.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The point that I was trying to make is that the UK low tax, low benefit economy is out of line with European social democratic norms.

 

Lets take Denmark as an example. The Danes pay MUCH higher taxes, have MUCH better services and by all accounts are much happier ( we'll leave the issue of the Muslim migrant scourage on one side). I think the Scots would be happier with a similar set up rather than Westminster transatlantic, misery. I may be wrong.

And of course the sad thing about Brexit is that many of those who voted for change are going to get exactly that. But it won't be the kind of change they actually want. The Con Party are likely to deliver increased inequality, even poorer services and increased unhappiness ?

 

You can see the glint in their their eyes as they "uphold democracy" while all the time turning Brexit into a tool to line their own pockets. B*st**ds.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Grouse

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So, in a very positive way, you agree. They lost votes last time from the time before. Which may indicate the electorate aren't so happy about their performance?

 

Of course - people have high expectations of their governments so it is to be expected that they will shed some support as their term progresses. They are still showing impressive poll numbers for a party in their second term. Whether they can sustain that into a third term may never be clear...