British PM anticipates call for Scottish independence referendum - report

[webfact]

British PM anticipates call for Scottish independence referendum - report

REUTERS

 

New British Prime Minister Theresa May meeting First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon at Bute House in Edinburgh, Scotland, July 15, 2016. REUTERS/James Glossop

 

(Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May is developing a secret strategy in the belief that Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is two weeks away from demanding a second referendum on Scottish independence, The Courier newspaper in Dundee, Scotland reported on Tuesday.

 

May's aides and the Conservative Party are laying the groundwork for talks with Scottish National Party ministers over a second constitutional vote, the newspaper reported. (http://bit.ly/2kjAULl)

 

A 2014 referendum on Scottish independence resulted in a victory for the "no" campaign.

 

(Reporting by Rama Venkat Raman in Bengaluru)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-08

 

[Laughing Gravy]

. Get out of the EU first and if Scotland want out then let them. I have some serious doubts to the paper in Dundee and its credibility. For me it is all about Sturgeon and not the Scottish people.

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I have some serious doubts to the paper in Dundee and its credibility.

Do you have any reason to suggest that the Courier is not credible source of journalistic integrity?

[jpinx]

Here we go again

[nakhonandy]

Sturgeon can't demand anything! More bs reporting.

 

Only Parliament can decide if there is to be a referendum.

I would think, no chance.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Here we go again

 

Sadly, the world has not got any more tolerant since 2014. The first indyref wasn't the prettiest of sights, but Brexit and the US election showed just how ugly and partisan politics is becoming. I fear that the next indyref will be uglier still.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Do you have any reason to suggest that the Courier is not credible source of journalistic integrity?

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[RuamRudy]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

I thought you were Scottish. OK I will spell it out. Dundee was the first to vote yes in the 2014 Scottish referendum for leave. The Dundee courier campaigned extensively to leave the UK. Does that make it a bit easier. 

 

I think that I understand what you are inferring - you don't like the idea of Scottish indpendence so you question the credibility of a very well established and highly respected newspaper which reports on the matter. Am I correct? 

 

You may question its political agenda, but to suggest that is has no credibility because its politics do not align with yours is a touch arrogant, would you not agree?

 

[Laughing Gravy]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think that I understand what you are inferring - you don't like the idea of Scottish indpendence so you question the credibility of a very well established and highly respected newspaper which reports on the matter. Am I correct? 

 

You may question its political agenda, but to suggest that is has no credibility because its politics do not align with yours is a touch arrogant, would you not agree?

 

Actually you are wrong. If the majority want independence then have it you and the Scottish people have my blessing. What is arrogant is assuming. I will admit that I personally feel the Scotland would be better off with the UK. So no I don't agree with you and if the Scottish want to join the EU, if they get independence, well more fool them.

 

I actually deleted the post within a few seconds but if you want to go accusing false assumptions then go ahead.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually you are wrong. If the majority want independence then have it you and the Scottish people have my blessing. What is arrogant is assuming. I will admit that I personally feel the Scotland would be better off with the UK. So no I don't agree with you and if the Scottish want to join the EU, if they get independence, well more fool them.

 

I actually deleted the post within a few seconds but if you want to go accusing false assumptions then go ahead.

Let's put aside the issue of independence and focus on your post, deleted or not (although it still appears on my screen).

 

You wrote:

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I have some serious doubts to the paper in Dundee and its credibility.

I do not want to suggesy that you know nothing about Dundee, its people or its local newspaper but without being able to lend weight to your statement, how can I conlcude that your statement is made with anything other than arrogance and prejudice? I am willing to accept this was not the case if you can show me what gives you serious doubts about he credibilty of the paper.

[Laughing Gravy]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Let's put aside the issue of independence and focus on your post, deleted or not (although it still appears on my screen).

 

You wrote:

I do not want to suggesy that you know nothing about Dundee, its people or its local newspaper but without being able to lend weight to your statement, how can I conlcude that your statement is made with anything other than arrogance and prejudice? I am willing to accept this was not the case if you can show me what gives you serious doubts about he credibilty of the paper.

So are you suggesting that the courier doesn't support Scottish independence.  If that is the case that would be strange considering the majority of the people and the first council to come through with a yes vote was in Dundee. Frankly as I have said, if Scotland want out then let them have it but don't assume my political views, when they are clearly wrong. Just ask me I will tell you them.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-29267985

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/215653/poll-shows-support-independence-since-brexit-vote/

http://reshare.ukdataservice.ac.uk/852443/

 

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So are you suggesting that the courier doesn't support Scottish independence.  If that is the case that would be strange considering the majority of the people and the first council to come through with a yes vote was in Dundee. Frankly as I have said, if Scotland want out then let them have it but don't assume my political views, when they are clearly wrong. Just ask me I will tell you them.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-29267985

 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/215653/poll-shows-support-independence-since-brexit-vote/

http://reshare.ukdataservice.ac.uk/852443/

 

 

I am not suggesting that at all. As with just about every newspaper in the country, the Courier has an editorial position. You explicitly questioned its credibility based upon that editoral position. Just so we are clear, here is the definition of credibility:

 

cred·i·bil·i·ty

ˌkredəˈbilədē/

noun

noun: credibility

the quality of being trusted and believed in.

"the government's loss of credibility"

synonyms:

trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; More reputation, status "does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"

• the quality of being convincing or believable.

  "the book's anecdotes have scant regard for credibility"

  synonyms:

  plausibility, believability, tenability, probability, feasibility, likelihood, credence; More authority, cogency "the whole tale lacks credibility"

another term for street credibility.

 

 

So, you have serious doubts about its trustworthiness and integrity. I think it is not unfair of me to ask you to elaborate on why you think that one should not trust the Courier or its journalists to have integrity.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am not suggesting that at all. As with just about every newspaper in the country, the Courier has an editorial position. You explicitly questioned its credibility based upon that editoral position. Just so we are clear, here is the definition of credibility:

 

cred·i·bil·i·ty

ˌkredəˈbilədē/

noun

noun: credibility

the quality of being trusted and believed in.

"the government's loss of credibility"

synonyms:

trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; More reputation, status "does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"

• the quality of being convincing or believable.

  "the book's anecdotes have scant regard for credibility"

  synonyms:

  plausibility, believability, tenability, probability, feasibility, likelihood, credence; More authority, cogency "the whole tale lacks credibility"

another term for street credibility.

 

 

So, you have serious doubts about its trustworthiness and integrity. I think it is not unfair of me to ask you to elaborate on why you think that one should not trust the Courier or its journalists to have integrity.

Good luck with whatever you want. I really have better things to discuss.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Good luck with whatever you want. I really have better things to discuss.

 

A referendum has not even been called and already people are jumping in with both feet, making absurd and baseless allegations and using inflammatory language (incorrectly!) to try to discredit opposing views. As I said earlier, I have serious fears that any future referendum will lead to some very ugly scenes, much of that because of hyperbole and downright lies from all sides of the debate.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nakhonandy said:

Sturgeon can't demand anything! More bs reporting.

 

Only Parliament can decide if there is to be a referendum.

I would think, no chance.

 

She can request, but you are correct - Westminster would need to approve any future referendum.

I expect that the SNP's strategy will be to garner a groundswell of populist support and use that to suggest a popular mandate is being wilfully ignored.

[jpinx]

This just the normal political "dealings". May will promise to have talks about a consultation  about another referendum, as long as the SNP vote with May's side in getting the various acts through parliament without too much turbulence.  If Sturgeon has another angle, she might ask for stronger assurances, but it's difficult to see how the SNP can offer anything to May, other than their votes in Westminster.   More devolution would be something the SNP should work with, rather than yet another referendum. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, jpinx said:

More devolution would be something the SNP should work with, rather than yet another referendum. 

 

More devolution seems like a pragmatic approach, but I can see that causing problems with the more dogmatic independence supporters who fear that a compromise might mollify the less militant Nats and lead to an acceptance of a new UK status quo.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

A referendum has not even been called and already people are jumping in with both feet, making absurd and baseless allegations and using inflammatory language (incorrectly!) to try to discredit opposing views

Just for the record it is the article and paper you are defending that stated The Scottish first minister has demanded a second referendum. See below.

 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Minister Nicola Sturgeon is two weeks away from demanding a second referendum on Scottish independence, The Courier newspaper in Dundee, Scotland reported on Tuesday.

 

[terryw]

There is increasing evidence that opposition to the SNP in Scotland is growing. Their poor management  of education, the health service and increases in taxes are the main focus of opposition. Demanding a Referendum because of Brexit is simply a smokescreen for the self inflicted problems caused by the SNP.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

She can request, but you are correct - Westminster would need to approve any future referendum.

I expect that the SNP's strategy will be to garner a groundswell of populist support and use that to suggest a popular mandate is being wilfully ignored.

 

Nothing can be ignored until it is formally requested, which it hasn't been. Reported rhetoric, demands and threats are simply ways to sell newspapers and feed the appetite of those who already share the same views.

 

I expect Sturgeon will do nothing until the polls and her researchers assure her of a very good chance of winning. I suspect, given all her previous rhetoric and demands, and then somewhat cooling off that doesn't look favorable at the moment. 

 

The interesting point this time could be a groundswell of opinion in other parts of the UK. People are waking up to the idea that less than 10% of a countries population can't dictate the future to the other 90% no matter how they dress it up. Ironically, many of that 90% would give the minority nationalists their wish as they are fed up with the continual shenanigans and moaning from certain elements. That would be very unfair on the majority of Scots who voted to stay part of the union.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

14 minutes ago, terryw said:

There is increasing evidence that opposition to the SNP in Scotland is growing. Their poor management  of education, the health service and increases in taxes are the main focus of opposition. Demanding a Referendum because of Brexit is simply a smokescreen for the self inflicted problems caused by the SNP.

 

Whilst independence and yet another referendum would distract from their poor performance, and stir up the emotional element in sections of their supporters, and cover up the fact that future EU membership would prove very difficult, their aim as always been independence.

If support was growing they'd have been making much more noise, demands and threats about it. Now, they're still unsure of victory and running out of options.

[RuamRudy]

57 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That would be very unfair on the majority of Scots who voted to stay part of the union.

 

 

Without wishing to be a pedant, that should 'majority of Scottish residents' because if we are talking about Scots as those born in Scotland, the majority of those voted to leave the UK.

 

Still, the overall majority was to stay - at that moment in time. This morning @britainelects (sorry, cannot link to it) tweeted the results of their most recent survey: excluding don't knows, support for independence is at 49%. Happy days....

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, terryw said:

There is increasing evidence that opposition to the SNP in Scotland is growing. Their poor management  of education, the health service and increases in taxes are the main focus of opposition. Demanding a Referendum because of Brexit is simply a smokescreen for the self inflicted problems caused by the SNP.

 

@britainelects tweeted their latest poll this morning - 49% leave

[khunken]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Nothing can be ignored until it is formally requested, which it hasn't been. Reported rhetoric, demands and threats are simply ways to sell newspapers and feed the appetite of those who already share the same views.

 

I expect Sturgeon will do nothing until the polls and her researchers assure her of a very good chance of winning. I suspect, given all her previous rhetoric and demands, and then somewhat cooling off that doesn't look favorable at the moment. 

 

The interesting point this time could be a groundswell of opinion in other parts of the UK. People are waking up to the idea that less than 10% of a countries population can't dictate the future to the other 90% no matter how they dress it up. Ironically, many of that 90% would give the minority nationalists their wish as they are fed up with the continual shenanigans and moaning from certain elements. That would be very unfair on the majority of Scots who voted to stay part of the union.

 

 

No it wouldn't be unfair as they voted to be part of a union within the EU.

BTW if you think 'dictation' of the few never happened before, look up the Malvinas where about 0.004% 'dictated' to the rest of the UK.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Makes good cake,Dundee.

[flyvnsky]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Without wishing to be a pedant, that should 'majority of Scottish residents' because if we are talking about Scots as those born in Scotland, the majority of those voted to leave the UK.

 

 

 

Not wishing it, but to be even more of a pedant, I am a Scot, using your definition, born in Scotland, but now living elsewhere.  I would have voted against Scotland leaving the UK if given a vote.  How do you know the majority of Scots voted to leave the UK when I and other Scots living outside Scotland could not vote?   And in any case what relevance is this in a Thai Forum?

[onthesoi]

10 minutes ago, flyvnsky said:

 

Not wishing it, but to be even more of a pedant, I am a Scot, using your definition, born in Scotland, but now living elsewhere.  I would have voted against Scotland leaving the UK if given a vote.  How do you know the majority of Scots voted to leave the UK when I and other Scots living outside Scotland could not vote?   And in any case what relevance is this in a Thai Forum?

Why should you be given a vote concerning a country you don't live in? 

 

Regarding relevance, you might want to check the forum section in which you're posting.

[mrfill]

46 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Makes good cake,Dundee.

And comics - The Beano, Dandy, Topper, Beezer, Victor etc

[jpinx]

9 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Why should you be given a vote concerning a country you don't live in? 

 

Regarding relevance, you might want to check the forum section in which you're posting.

Why should you be given the vote in a country you *do* live in?  Look around you ... 

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Sadly, the world has not got any more tolerant since 2014. The first indyref wasn't the prettiest of sights, but Brexit and the US election showed just how ugly and partisan politics is becoming. I fear that the next indyref will be uglier still.

I wanted the UK to remain in tact at the time of the last referendum. Now, after the referendum and all that I think Scotland would be better off part of the EU

 

For info, my father was born in Banchory, so clearly a highland Scot. My mother was born in Co Durham. So I consider my self half Scottish.