Prostitution

[mazo]

In view of a recent post entitled "Service Girl Accuses German Of Not Paying" i want to ask what do you think would hapen if the police did there job and stoped all of the Prostitution in Thailand. What would hapen considering the amounts of money it generates for a lot of people but on the other hand it being detrimental to those concerned and Thailand as a whole and all the other negative things that go with it crime ect. So what do you think would hapen to Thailand if it stoped tomorrow would tourism go down or up ? would thai pepole be beter of or worse of ? what would all the prostitutes do ?. I know there is more to Thailand than Prostitution but to say it is illegal in places like pattaya its like a major industry. This is only a hypothetical question because i can not see it ending any time soon unless the new government does something to affect the standrad of living in Thailand. So dont take it to seriously please

Edited December 13, 2006 by mazo

[kayo]

It wouldn't happen.

I mean, technically (if we believe the previous gov't) there is NO prostitution in Thailand right?

But let's imagine that there was prostitution on a wide scale - completely obliterating the public's perception of thailand, due to the sheer numbers of tourist who come to thailand purely for this fictional prostitution - and the country wanted to take action on the illegal trade.

The only sensible manner would be to de-criminalise it. Maybe not legalise it, but de-criminalise it.

Then enforce certain minor laws, Sweden or HOlland do.

But then the gov't could also put its weight and money behind also providing a more structured and caring approach towards the industry, thereby allowing for much more (never total) care of both the customers, the girls, the industry, and the public's perception.

I won' elaborate too much now, cos it's late where I am, but I'll come back here tomorrow.

[mazo]

It wouldn't happen.

I mean, technically (if we believe the previous gov't) there is NO prostitution in Thailand right?

But let's imagine that there was prostitution on a wide scale - completely obliterating the public's perception of thailand, due to the sheer numbers of tourist who come to thailand purely for this fictional prostitution - and the country wanted to take action on the illegal trade.

The only sensible manner would be to de-criminalise it. Maybe not legalise it, but de-criminalise it.

Then enforce certain minor laws, Sweden or HOlland do.

But then the gov't could also put its weight and money behind also providing a more structured and caring approach towards the industry, thereby allowing for much more (never total) care of both the customers, the girls, the industry, and the public's perception.

I won' elaborate too much now, cos it's late where I am, but I'll come back here tomorrow.

That would be the sensible answer but Thailand could never admit that it had a problem because of the face thing. The government deals with the problem by ignoreing it because to admit would bring shame

[bmanly]

ISo what do you think would hapen to Thailand if it stoped tomorrow would tourism go down or up ?

As someone who travels far and wide I would say tourism would decline, why? Because all the so called "sex tourists" will simply go elsewhere like Cambodia and the Phillipines. I know guys who come here 4 times a year 2 weeks at a time who are well off, they pay 1,000 to 1,500 baht a night for a room and spend big in bars and night clubs and on the girls, money is no problem for them. These guys would go elsewhere to find this action if it wasn't here, that would have to have an impact on the economy.

The so called "normal tourists" will keep on coming the same as they do now, that will only increase with or without prostitution. When a "normal tourist" decides to come to Thailand prostitution is usually the last thing on their mind. There is so much to do in this country that it is of no consequence whether it's here or not. In my case it doesn't matter, I will be coming here for a long time yet with or without it, cheers.

[britmaveric]

Hmmmmm well most of the prostitution is thai/thai - I'd find it difficult to stop. It's ingrained in thai society for better or worse, from lowest society to highest - even the govt.

I dont see a problem as long as its adults and its smth they want to pursue.

[john b good]

If as suggested prostitution was stopped (100%) that would put around two million predominately females "out of work"

Thailand could then not claim to have the lowest unemployment rate in the world could it?

It should either be legalised (or decriminalised) and this would also mean that the BIB's would have a large slice of their income cut overnight.

Same should be the case for gambling. Open it up. It works everywhere else in the world (or leastaways it is better)

Edited December 14, 2006 by john b good

[Tammi]

ISo what do you think would hapen to Thailand if it stoped tomorrow would tourism go down or up ?

As someone who travels far and wide I would say tourism would decline, why? Because all the so called "sex tourists" will simply go elsewhere like Cambodia and the Phillipines. I know guys who come here 4 times a year 2 weeks at a time who are well off, they pay 1,000 to 1,500 baht a night for a room and spend big in bars and night clubs and on the girls, money is no problem for them. These guys would go elsewhere to find this action if it wasn't here, that would have to have an impact on the economy.

The so called "normal tourists" will keep on coming the same as they do now, that will only increase with or without prostitution. When a "normal tourist" decides to come to Thailand prostitution is usually the last thing on their mind. There is so much to do in this country that it is of no consequence whether it's here or not. In my case it doesn't matter, I will be coming here for a long time yet with or without it, cheers.

I think not - at least while Mrs. Hun Sen is around.

[Little Black Duck]

It wouldn't happen.

I mean, technically (if we believe the previous gov't) there is NO prostitution in Thailand right?

But let's imagine that there was prostitution on a wide scale - completely obliterating the public's perception of thailand, due to the sheer numbers of tourist who come to thailand purely for this fictional prostitution - and the country wanted to take action on the illegal trade.

The only sensible manner would be to de-criminalise it. Maybe not legalise it, but de-criminalise it.

Then enforce certain minor laws, Sweden or HOlland do.

But then the gov't could also put its weight and money behind also providing a more structured and caring approach towards the industry, thereby allowing for much more (never total) care of both the customers, the girls, the industry, and the public's perception.

I won' elaborate too much now, cos it's late where I am, but I'll come back here tomorrow.

I think your on the right track Kayo..

In West Australia they have a containment Policy,, Its limited to certain areas where it doesn't effect the main flow of general public..There are legal Bordellos in Kalgoolie (the gold mining area) seems kins of appropriate hey..

Where's Terry 57 when you need him ????

[PhilHarries]

In view of a recent post entitled "Service Girl Accuses German Of Not Paying" i want to ask what do you think would hapen if the police did there job and stoped all of the Prostitution in Thailand.

Is this in addition to doing their job stopping drug use, traffic violations, gambling, extortion, theft etc etc?

OK, it is a hypothetical question not to be taken seriously.

Firstly, you need to define prostitution.

If a man meets a woman and she agrees to sex but only in return for 1000 Baht, that is prostitution.

But if a man meets a woman and she agrees to sex for no financial gain except that the man makes a 1000Baht contribution to her taxi fare home in the morning and other sundry expenses, does that constitute prostitution?

In either case, should the police intervene, neither party is going to admit to an illegal act. They are in luuurve (at first sight) and it's up to the policeman to prove otherwise. Even if the police witness the man giving the woman money in the morning they will claim it is nothing more than a gift.

But OK, ignoring the complications, we have defined prostitution.

Assemble the storm troopers and perform a mass raid on Pattaya. Close down the beer bars, gogo bars, karaoke joints, massage parlours, night clubs, discos, escort services etc etc. Sweep the streets clean of any potential hookers and patrol them 24/7.

Job done? No, many of my colleagues have been propositioned in restaurants, department stores, hotels and even Don Muang duty free shop. On top of that sweeping the hookers off the streets is going to p1ss off a hel_l of a lot of female tourists and normal living Thai women who inevitably get caught up as well.

Could always do as in Viet Nam where it is illegal for a man and woman to be together in a bedroom after 10pm unless they are legally married. That works very well as anyone who has been to Vung Tau will tell you, not.

No, as much as the moral majority brigade stamp their feet and throw hissy fits the world's oldest profession will continue to ply it's trade.

Unless someone wants to turn Thailand into another North Korea ahere tourists are escorted around like flocks of sheep and allowed only to meet selected, party member, citizens or Saudi Arabia

[Fun2Fun]

It wouldn't happen.

I mean, technically (if we believe the previous gov't) there is NO prostitution in Thailand right?

But let's imagine that there was prostitution on a wide scale - completely obliterating the public's perception of thailand, due to the sheer numbers of tourist who come to thailand purely for this fictional prostitution - and the country wanted to take action on the illegal trade.

The only sensible manner would be to de-criminalise it. Maybe not legalise it, but de-criminalise it.

Then enforce certain minor laws, Sweden or HOlland do.

But then the gov't could also put its weight and money behind also providing a more structured and caring approach towards the industry, thereby allowing for much more (never total) care of both the customers, the girls, the industry, and the public's perception.

I won' elaborate too much now, cos it's late where I am, but I'll come back here tomorrow.

In Sweden its not illegal to be a prostitute, but on the other hand it is illegal to purchase services from a prostitute.

[wilko]

You can'y STOP prostitution, only drive it underground, and that is where the criminal element gets a foothold.

THe trade in Thailand is relatively crime free as there is little opportunity for crime to make the big bucks it likes.

[John]

prostitution can not be stopped

[Chang_paarp]

The discussion here seems to be centred on the "immoral practices" for the western male, these are only a relatively small % of the overall prostitution industry in Thailand. The industry that is geared for the locals and the asians is larger in number and value than the the segment aimed at the falang. As a result it is doubtfull that the industry will be eliminated by the powers that be.

[Buckwheat]

For those concerned,

The English translation of the Thai law concerning this issue can be found here...

http://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/WEBTEXT...63/E96THA01.htm

[Matt1036]

IMO TOURISM WOULD FALL.

Thailand's errr "alleged" sex industry - the one that supposedly caters to tourists that is - has long itself been a tourist attraction - take a walk along Bangla Rd in Phuket any night and see the tourists "experiencing" the seedy sights or along Walking Street Pattaya where they are brought by the busload and pose for their photos outside the Neon light a-go-go bars or to visit a show at Polo.

Wander down Patpong and see the huge market that thrives there nightly - how does it survive? who is its clientele? how many cheap watches would the average sex tourist buy anyway?

If no girl in any of these places left the bar with a farang again it would not affect tourism in the short term. Most tourists to these places are not there to hire a girl they are there to look at the men who do. The so-called sex tourist has long ago become a tourist attraction himself.

Someone mentioned Kalgoorlie Western Australia - the "starting stalls" there - an Aussie version of the windows of Amsterdam - are also a Government recognised tourist attraction.

[wilko]

Some people seem to be ignoring that the western part of the industry is only a smal part of ti

[wilko]

I've just given the Prevention of Prostitution Act a quick once over and I can't see any reference to prostitution being illegal....a lot of activities stemming from it but not the act itself..

[PhilHarries]

The discussion here seems to be centred on the "immoral practices" for the western male, these are only a relatively small % of the overall prostitution industry in Thailand. The industry that is geared for the locals and the asians is larger in number and value than the the segment aimed at the falang. As a result it is doubtfull that the industry will be eliminated by the powers that be.

Some people seem to be ignoring that the western part of the industry is only a smal part of ti

Totally agree with you both but when anybody starts on about prostitution or the "sex industry" in Thailand they inevitably are focussing, generally out of ignorance, on the western male oriented side of the business. The truth, the big picture, is as you point out somewhat different but this truth doesn't fit in with the picture various groups try to portray.

Regardless of which side of the business you look at the conclusion to the question is the same.

Even if, by waving some mighty magic wand, all the social and economic injustices could be erased there would still be those that want that little bit more. And if that little bit more could be earned in air conditioned hotel rooms rather than in rice paddys that is how a section of society will earn it.

That's how it's been since the year dot which is why it's called the oldest profession.

[alexth]

Hmmmmm well most of the prostitution is thai/thai - I'd find it difficult to stop. It's ingrained in thai society for better or worse, from lowest society to highest - even the govt.

I dont see a problem as long as its adults and its smth they want to pursue.

How convenient..."Let's do it and even more, let's encourage it, <deleted>, thais do it too...". No wonder you're so in love with Pattaya

[Jingthing]

Prostitution exists in rich countries and poor countries. It is also a major part of the economy of such world cities as Paris, Amsterdam, Rio, Mexico City, Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc. etc. Thailand could shut down the obvious venues such as go go bars, beer bars, and even harass street prostitutes, but short of a total police state with death penalties, they couldn't eliminate widespread prostitution. There is too much an incentive for the sellers.

By allowing such obvious venues, Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence that is much more common in other countries such as the US. In effect, allowing such open venues is de facto legalization.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Jingthing

[Tammi]

Prostitution exists in rich countries and poor countries. It is also a major part of the economy of such world cities as Paris, Amsterdam, Rio, Mexico City, Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc. etc. Thailand could shut down the obvious venues such as go go bars, beer bars, and even harass street prostitutes, but short of a total police state with death penalties, they couldn't eliminate widespread prostitution. There is too much an incentive for the sellers.

By allowing such obvious venues, Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence that is much more common in other countries such as the US. In effect, allowing such open venues is de facto legalization.

Please, where can I find the statistical report?

[alexth]

Prostitution exists in rich countries and poor countries. It is also a major part of the economy of such world cities as Paris, Amsterdam, Rio, Mexico City, Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc. etc. Thailand could shut down the obvious venues such as go go bars, beer bars, and even harass street prostitutes, but short of a total police state with death penalties, they couldn't eliminate widespread prostitution. There is too much an incentive for the sellers.

By allowing such obvious venues, Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence that is much more common in other countries such as the US. In effect, allowing such open venues is de facto legalization.

Please, where can I find the statistical report?

Do you need a report for that???

[jumnien]

I am not an anti-prostitution crusader in the slightest - to each his own. But I think the statement "Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence" is very naive at best. In any culture, when you mix alcoholism, addiction, mafia, drug dealing, and power and money, and desperation and greed, you get more that a bit of violence. The life of a prostitute in Thailand is less violence-free than the average "gotta get my rocks off" farang is willing to suspect. Just an opinion.

[PhilHarries]

Prostitution exists in rich countries and poor countries. It is also a major part of the economy of such world cities as Paris, Amsterdam, Rio, Mexico City, Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc. etc. Thailand could shut down the obvious venues such as go go bars, beer bars, and even harass street prostitutes, but short of a total police state with death penalties, they couldn't eliminate widespread prostitution. There is too much an incentive for the sellers.

By allowing such obvious venues, Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence that is much more common in other countries such as the US. In effect, allowing such open venues is de facto legalization.

Please, where can I find the statistical report?

Do you need a report for that???

Some people need a statistical report before they can go for a sh1t! It's a wonder they can get their pants on in the morning without written instructions.

[simon43]

I know guys who come here 4 times a year 2 weeks at a time who are well off, they pay 1,000 to 1,500 baht a night for a room and spend big in bars and night clubs and on the girls, money is no problem for them

[\quote]

If money is no problem to them, then why are they being so tight-fisted to pay only 1,500 baht a night for a room? Thats only about 20 quid for heavens sake! Not really contributing much to the Thai economy are they?....

Simon

[alexth]

Prostitution exists in rich countries and poor countries. It is also a major part of the economy of such world cities as Paris, Amsterdam, Rio, Mexico City, Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc. etc. Thailand could shut down the obvious venues such as go go bars, beer bars, and even harass street prostitutes, but short of a total police state with death penalties, they couldn't eliminate widespread prostitution. There is too much an incentive for the sellers.

By allowing such obvious venues, Thailand has largely divorced the connection between prostitution and violence that is much more common in other countries such as the US. In effect, allowing such open venues is de facto legalization.

Please, where can I find the statistical report?

Do you need a report for that???

Some people need a statistical report before they can go for a sh1t! It's a wonder they can get their pants on in the morning without written instructions.

And some people should really get out more before going for a sh1t! It's like the real tests, first you read the theory and than you practice

[suiging]

Twenty odd years ago I used to run an SDS ( Special Duties Squad ) team against prostitution in Mong Kok, the red light area for locals in Hong Kong.

One thing for sure that no matter how many girls I would load into the lorry on any given night, the following day the same number of new comers would take their place.

The laws of supply and demand will always prevail. What the Govt should do in my humble opinion, is to accept this fact and re-direct it's efforts to educate the girls in how to look after themselves financially as well as medically.

The Issan farm girls have to live and for many of them there is little choice in the profession they choose. Start small collective banks and loan agencies run by the girls themselves much the same as the wonderfully successful schemes run for lady subsistance farmers in India/africa, then at least they will have something to work for rather than boyfriends/husbands of whatever creed who abuse and rip the poor sods off

Edited December 16, 2006 by suiging

[suiging]

PS.

Perhaps our beloved mods would consider moving this topic to the Samui, Phbucket, or just about anywhere other than here.

I'm sure folk on those forums would love to have their say ?????

[Ulysses G.]

'simon43' date='2006-12-16 08:33:34' post='1034570']I know guys who come here 4 times a year 2 weeks at a time who are well off, they pay 1,000 to 1,500 baht a night for a room and spend big in bars and night clubs and on the girls, money is no problem for them

If money is no problem to them, then why are they being so tight-fisted to pay only 1,500 baht a night for a room? Thats only about 20 quid for heavens sake! Not really contributing much to the Thai economy are they?....

Simon

Mostly because 1,500 baht will get one a really nice room in Pattaya. Why squander money that could be used on an extra non-traditional massage?

Edited December 16, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[pumpuiman]

I read in a lonely planet guide that tourists account for only 5% of the prostitution in Thailand, and that 75% of Thai men visit a prostitute once a week.