Which is better HGH or Testosterone injection

[Prad]

I am 64 years old generally in Good health,Gymming daily for 40 mins. I am type 2 Diabetic,maintain a good diet etc.

Since last year I am totally impotent and now Viagra also does not help much.

I have been advised by one  Doctor to use Testosterone Gel and HGH injection.

The other doctor told me to go in for Testosterone injection .

I am a bit confused and scared to try these options.

So I would like the opinions of Good samaritans  who have practical experience with any of the above treatment .

Secondly what precautions and side effects I can expect from this line of action.

Please serious advisors will be  appreciated .

Trollers are also welcome 

[moe666]

Testosterone is needed for the old johnson but that is not a sure fire fix. You can also take some zinc up to 90 ml per day. But get some blood work done first and see what your problem is. you need general work up, testosterone, DHT, and estrogen at a min. Find out what you levels are and then go from there. 

 

The reason for zinc is that it block amrotese which converts testosterone to estrogen but get your blood work up first

[robblok]

Ok, ill bite... HGH is expensive and I have used the good stuff.. i did not notice much at all. I had the good stuff and I will never use it again. I just had to try because it was so hyped up and I hoped it would help me shed fat easier.

 

Testosterone on the the other hand is something that does help and is far cheaper, if your in the gym a lot you will see more results even from a low dose (that is assuming you got low testosterone, it has no use to add a low dose if your own levels are high enough)

 

Did the Dr's have you do some blood test to confirm your testosterone levels ?

[nisakiman]

Did you try anything other than Viagra? There are other products on the market for ED that might work where Viagra doesn't. Can't remember the names of them, because I usually delete all the spam in my inbox without reading it, but I seem to remember there are a few, chemically different alternatives available. Might be worth a try. Google is your friend. Just search 'ED'.

[tropo]

I read that viagra is only successful in 48% - 81% of men and varies according to the cause of the erectile dysfunction.

 

That means it will not work for a large number of users.

 

For a doctor to suggest hormone replacement of any type without first testing your hormone levels is ridiculous. 

 

There are many causes of erectile dysfunction, and experimenting with testosterone and HGH does not seem like a very good approach. You could be lucky and find that testosterone replacement will do the trick. Testosterone gel is not very effective if your testosterone levels are very low.

 

Here's a good article to start off with, but there are many articles to be found online:

 

http://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/guide/diagnosing-erectile-dysfunction

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, tropo said:

 

...For a doctor to suggest hormone replacement of any type without first testing your hormone levels is ridiculous. ...

 

 

+1

 

You need a thorough work up. Consult a doctor specializing in erectile dysfunction.

 

Given your contributing health issues, might benefit fro mother treatments not mentioned such as penile implant etc.

 

There is no substitute for a careful evaluation by a specialist in the filed.

 

Where in Thailand do you live?

[Prad]

Thanks for all the positive response ,yes I did all check ups as suggested by the Doctor.

All were normal like SHBG,PSA,ESTRADIOL,PROLACTIN, FSH & LH ,CORTISOL,

EXCEPT TESTOSTERONE WAS - 330 (LAST CHECK UP 6 MONTHS BEFORE WAS 300 pg/ml ).

FREE T IS NORMAL LEVEL AND ALSO T3,T4,TSH ALL ARE WITHIN NORMAL RANGE.

YES ZINC IS BELOW NORMAL RANGE : 53.47 ( RANGE IS 75-291 ).

MY PROBLEM NO MORNING ERECTION TOTALLY LIMP.

i CONSULTED 2 DOCTORS, ONE SUGGESTED TESTOSTERONE INJECTION.

Whereas the other told me : Zinc supplement, Tests gel, and HGH injection .

This is my dilemma.

I am confused between the 2 options ,

Yes I live in Huahin.

Again Thanks for the support and advise

[tropo]

56 minutes ago, Prad said:

Thanks for all the positive response ,yes I did all check ups as suggested by the Doctor.

All were normal like SHBG,PSA,ESTRADIOL,PROLACTIN, FSH & LH ,CORTISOL,

EXCEPT TESTOSTERONE WAS - 330 (LAST CHECK UP 6 MONTHS BEFORE WAS 300 pg/ml ).

FREE T IS NORMAL LEVEL AND ALSO T3,T4,TSH ALL ARE WITHIN NORMAL RANGE.

YES ZINC IS BELOW NORMAL RANGE : 53.47 ( RANGE IS 75-291 ).

MY PROBLEM NO MORNING ERECTION TOTALLY LIMP.

i CONSULTED 2 DOCTORS, ONE SUGGESTED TESTOSTERONE INJECTION.

Whereas the other told me : Zinc supplement, Tests gel, and HGH injection .

This is my dilemma.

I am confused between the 2 options ,

Yes I live in Huahin.

Again Thanks for the support and advise

 

You're still in the normal range for total and free testosterone, which means testosterone is probably not the reason for your problem. i.e. It should work. 

 

I found this article very helpful with regards to testosterone.

 

http://elitemensguide.com/testosterone-levels-by-age/

 

Please bear in mind we are not doctors here, so we're just giving opinions.

[oxo1947]

1 hour ago, Prad said:

Thanks for all the positive response ,yes I did all check ups as suggested by the Doctor.

All were normal

Are they all normal for a 64 year old-?--because that's not what you want is it..?

To be a normal 64 year old.

I haven't paid much attention to the Testo gel, as I have always injected--but the reports coming from friends (especially Americans where it seem to be the choice of doctors there) is making me look at it again.

 

.

Off subject I know--but how the world has changed, there are still people in USA serving large prison sentences for something that is now widely excepted to have benefits for you and is prescribe by most family doctors there.

[Sheryl]

Well for certain you should take some zinc supplementation! Possible help with the impotence aside,  low zinc levels weaken the iimmune system and can lead to more frequent and or more severe respiratory and GI infections.

 

As to testosterone and HGH:

 

- use of HGH for ED is not approved by any medical authority I am aware of, it is strictly "off label" and the risks of it are not fully known.

 

- T supplementation on the other hand has pretty solid backing provided no contraindications and that baseline levels are low. This can include being at the lowest end of normal range as is the case for you.  

 

If you opt to try T replacement make sure you have excluded prostate cancer first (digital rectal exam and PSA) and then have periodic checks. Testosterone supplementation does not cause cancer but it can speed the growth of some types of prostate cancer if it already exists.

 

with any HRT (or for that matter any medication) it is prudent to use the least amount needed for the desired result.

 

the dermal route (e.g. Androgel) offers severall advantages over injectable: more steady blood levels (with injections you get a big spike and then a dip) and easier to fine tune/titrate dosage .

 

If you try T and find no improvement in function even after T levels have come up to say middle range then I would not recommend trying to boost any higher but rather that you invest in a trip to Bangkok to see a specialist in ED.

 

Make sure you diabetes is well controlled.

 

Also -- very important and perhaps I should have mentioned first -- there are many medications which by themselves can cause ED and given that you have multiple chronic medical conditions it could be that this is  the culprit. Medications for high blood pressure in particular can do this and often a change from one class of antihypertensive to another will help.

[Prad]

53 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Well for certain you should take some zinc supplementation! Possible help with the impotence aside,  low zinc levels weaken the iimmune system and can lead to more frequent and or more severe respiratory and GI infections.

 

As to testosterone and HGH:

 

- use of HGH for ED is not approved by any medical authority I am aware of, it is strictly "off label" and the risks of it are not fully known.

 

- T supplementation on the other hand has pretty solid backing provided no contraindications and that baseline levels are low. This can include being at the lowest end of normal range as is the case for you.  

 

If you opt to try T replacement make sure you have excluded prostate cancer first (digital rectal exam and PSA) and then have periodic checks. Testosterone supplementation does not cause cancer but it can speed the growth of some types of prostate cancer if it already exists.

 

with any HRT (or for that matter any medication) it is prudent to use the least amount needed for the desired result.

 

the dermal route (e.g. Androgel) offers severall advantages over injectable: more steady blood levels (with injections you get a big spike and then a dip) and easier to fine tune/titrate dosage .

 

If you try T and find no improvement in function even after T levels have come up to say middle range then I would not recommend trying to boost any higher but rather that you invest in a trip to Bangkok to see a specialist in ED.

 

Make sure you diabetes is well controlled.

 

Also -- very important and perhaps I should have mentioned first -- there are many medications which by themselves can cause ED and given that you have multiple chronic medical conditions it could be that this is  the culprit. Medications for high blood pressure in particular can do this and often a change from one class of antihypertensive to another will help.

 

[Prad]

Thanks Sheryl for  the precise and to the point reply .

Well so HGH is out for me now.

I forgot to mention I am type 2 Diabetic ( 2 Tabs Metaformin 500mg a day ).

Fasting Range ( 130-140 )

Prostrate physical check did say slight enlarged ,PSA blood check up normal.

No other medical complications.

Exercise at The Gym -40 mins weight training daily ( without fail )

Well Can you suggest a good ED specialist in Bangkok ,before I take the final plunge for Testosterone injection.

Again thanks for your reply.

Rgds

Prad

[moe666]

Try the zinc but get liquid zinc from Iherb as the zinc in tablet form can be hard to absorb, take no more than 90ml a day. I had been taking the tablet form for years and thought I was ok but saw a naturpathic Dr. and found out I was not absorbing the zinc. The easy way to tell if you have enough zinc is the taste test. Put some liquid in water taste it if it taste like water not enough, if there is a strong taste then you have enough and should not have to add it to diet.

[Sheryl]

Redoxan readily available in Thailand is effervescent tab that dissolves in water. Zinc + vit C.

[moe666]

27 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Redoxan readily available in Thailand is effervescent tab that dissolves in water. Zinc + vit C.

 

Need to check the sugar content, these products usually have lots of sugar

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Prad said:

Thanks Sheryl for  the precise and to the point reply .

Well so HGH is out for me now.

I forgot to mention I am type 2 Diabetic ( 2 Tabs Metaformin 500mg a day ).

Fasting Range ( 130-140 )

Prostrate physical check did say slight enlarged ,PSA blood check up normal.

No other medical complications.

Exercise at The Gym -40 mins weight training daily ( without fail )

Well Can you suggest a good ED specialist in Bangkok ,before I take the final plunge for Testosterone injection.

Again thanks for your reply.

Rgds

Prad

 

Prof. Somboon Leungwattanakij  at Bangkok Hospital

 

As this hospital is affiliated with Bangkok Hua Hin Hospital it might be possible to have any needed follow-up tests etc down done there and sent to him for his review.

[robblok]

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Well for certain you should take some zinc supplementation! Possible help with the impotence aside,  low zinc levels weaken the iimmune system and can lead to more frequent and or more severe respiratory and GI infections.

 

As to testosterone and HGH:

 

- use of HGH for ED is not approved by any medical authority I am aware of, it is strictly "off label" and the risks of it are not fully known.

 

- T supplementation on the other hand has pretty solid backing provided no contraindications and that baseline levels are low. This can include being at the lowest end of normal range as is the case for you.  

 

If you opt to try T replacement make sure you have excluded prostate cancer first (digital rectal exam and PSA) and then have periodic checks. Testosterone supplementation does not cause cancer but it can speed the growth of some types of prostate cancer if it already exists.

 

with any HRT (or for that matter any medication) it is prudent to use the least amount needed for the desired result.

 

the dermal route (e.g. Androgel) offers severall advantages over injectable: more steady blood levels (with injections you get a big spike and then a dip) and easier to fine tune/titrate dosage .

 

If you try T and find no improvement in function even after T levels have come up to say middle range then I would not recommend trying to boost any higher but rather that you invest in a trip to Bangkok to see a specialist in ED.

 

Make sure you diabetes is well controlled.

 

Also -- very important and perhaps I should have mentioned first -- there are many medications which by themselves can cause ED and given that you have multiple chronic medical conditions it could be that this is  the culprit. Medications for high blood pressure in particular can do this and often a change from one class of antihypertensive to another will help.

This is the only part i disagree with if you take test E for a longer period blood levels will stabilize (there are nice graphs for that) its far more efficient cost and takes up far better then a creme.  (it just means one injection a week)

 

Test E has a half life of a week (of if) of if that is too much you could go for test P the half life is 2-4 days. Sure the first weeks the blood values rise and fall but after a few weeks it stabilizes (that is the nature of longer half life).

 

There are other disadvantages for creams you fail to mention:

 

Quote

 disadvantages of transdermal administration: There exist numerous concerns and disadvantages when transdermal administration of creams and gels are concerned. The first and foremost issue of concern is the problem of skin-to-skin contact with the individual who is utilizing the topical gel or cream, which can often result in the transference of Testosterone from the TRT patient to the other individual. This can pose problems involving contact with the TRT patient’s wife or girlfriend, or close contact involving children and babies. The risks that might arise from this transference can involve unexpected signs of pubertal development in children, and virilization in women who have been in physical contact with the patient using TRT gels/creams. Skin-to-skin contact is not the only possible method of transference, as unwashed clothing, bed sheets, pillows, etc. can also contain remnants of the substance if it has come into contact with areas of the body that the topical gel or cream has been rubbed on to. Although most Testosterone gels are designed for rapid absorption into the skin whereby the area applied will dry fairly quickly, there is still an inherent risk of transference involved. The other concern involving transdermal administration is the issue regarding increased rates of aromatization into Estrogen of the Testosterone being applied. Clinical studies have demonstrated that a higher body fat percentage will present a higher risk of Estrogenic side effects[2]. This is because the aromatase enzyme is highly abundant in adipose tissue (fat), and so it stands to reason that the higher an individual’s body fat percentage is, the greater the rate of aromatization of androgens into Estrogen will result. If Testosterone is being applied topically to be absorbed dermally (through the skin), it must pass through sub-dermal fat tissue where it can be prone to increased rates of aromatization.

 

 

 

[1] Testosterone Action Deficiency Substitution 2nd Edition. E. Nieschlag H.M. Behre (Eds.) Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg New York (1998)

 

 

 

[2] Aromatization of androstenedione and 19-nortestosterone in human placental, liver, and adipose tissues (abstract). Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 62 (1986:18-25

[3] Long-Term Testosterone Gel (AndroGel) Treatment Maintains Beneficial Effects on Sexual Function and Mood, Lean and Fat Mass, and Bone Mineral Density in Hypogonadal Men. Christina Wang, Glenn Cunningham, Adrian Dobs, Ali Iranmanesh, Alvin M. Matsumoto, Peter J. Snyder, Thomas Weber, Nancy Berman, Laura Hull and Ronald S. Swerdloff. Wang et al. 89 (5): 2085

[4] Gel Study Group 2000 Comparative pharmacokinetics of two doses of transdermal testosterone gel versus testosterone patch after daily application for 180 days in hypogonadal men. Swerdloff RS, Wang C, Cunningham G, Dobs A, Iranmanesh A, Matsumoto A, Snyder P, Weber T, Berman N, and T J Clin Endocrinol Metab 85:4500–4510

[5] Pharmacokinetics of transdermal testosterone gel in hypogonadal men: application of gel at one site versus four sites. Wang C, Berman N, Longstreth JA, Choapoco B, Hull L, Steiner B, Faulkner S, Dudley RE, Swerdloff RS 2000 J Clin Endocrinol Metab 85:964–969

Edited February 16, 2017 by robblok

[oxo1947]

22 hours ago, Prad said:

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by oxo1947

[moe666]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

This is the only part i disagree with if you take test E for a longer period blood levels will stabilize (there are nice graphs for that) its far more efficient cost and takes up far better then a creme.  (it just means one injection a week)

 

Test E has a half life of a week (of if) of if that is too much you could go for test P the half life is 2-4 days. Sure the first weeks the blood values rise and fall but after a few weeks it stabilizes (that is the nature of longer half life).

 

There are other disadvantages for creams you fail to mention:

 

The aromatization can be taken care of by zinc supplamentation. also when I first started using t gel I was informed rub it in until surface is dry and also in the morning. Never a problem with girl friends absorbing any T. As I was told do not expect miracles changes will be slow to come and small.

 

Also another problem with any T supplementation is a higher level of DHT this needs to be checked and can be controlled with finasteride although 5 mg is recommended start with 1mg and work up if necessary

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The aromatization can be taken care of by zinc supplamentation. also when I first started using t gel I was informed rub it in until surface is dry and also in the morning. Never a problem with girl friends absorbing any T. As I was told do not expect miracles changes will be slow to come and small.

 

Also another problem with any T supplementation is a higher level of DHT this needs to be checked and can be controlled with finasteride although 5 mg is recommended start with 1mg and work up if necessary

How do you measure the amount of gel ? just curious dosing with a needle is quite exact and easy (if you have half a brain)

 

I just take something else against the estrogen (aromatization)... the finastride I am not so sure about as one of the side effects could be a bad sex life.  (1 in 10) So far no problems with hair loss.. DHT is what causes that. But I might get finastride just in case. Just hope I wont be one of those 10 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

The aromatization can be taken care of by zinc supplamentation. also when I first started using t gel I was informed rub it in until surface is dry and also in the morning. Never a problem with girl friends absorbing any T. As I was told do not expect miracles changes will be slow to come and small.

 

Also another problem with any T supplementation is a higher level of DHT this needs to be checked and can be controlled with finasteride although 5 mg is recommended start with 1mg and work up if necessary

 

 

How do you determine how much finasteride you need? Do you have regular DHT blood tests? I take 1mg per day to prevent hair loss and that is all that is required. I've been on it for just over 6 months and my hair looks better already. A 5mg dose is recommended for prostate enlargement.

 

I would not recommend the OP go anywhere near finasteride. It is a known libido killer and in regard, it's very effective. 1mg per day drops my libido way down. I have to choose between luxurious hair or sex LOL.  

 

I doubt testosterone gel would push testosterone levels high enough to have a problem with high DHT. If you inject testosterone it could become a problem.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by tropo

[Lannig]

FYI my doctor has told me that Testosterone injections after 65 are not recommended because they are a known risk factor for prostate cancer.

People who need monthly injections due to insufficient testosterone levels (e.g. after testicular cancer surgery) usually stop getting them after 65. That's what an urologist from a large government hospital has told me anyway.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

How do you measure the amount of gel ? just curious dosing with a needle is quite exact and easy (if you have half a brain)

 

I just take something else against the estrogen (aromatization)... the finastride I am not so sure about as one of the side effects could be a bad sex life.  (1 in 10) So far no problems with hair loss.. DHT is what causes that. But I might get finastride just in case. Just hope I wont be one of those 10 

 

Don't be so sure about the hair loss not being a problem. It often disappears too slowly to notice, over years. The disappearance usually starts with thinning out on top, so that's even harder to see. You might not notice it until you see a difference in photographs from years ago.

 

With the information you have, and still a good hairdo, you should think about taking precautions. At least have your DHT tested. Hair lost doesn't always return, even with finasteride. Of course, it's complicated by the fact that most men experience hair thinning as they age, but injecting testosterone to the point of maintaining supraphysiological or high normal levels is a sure way to speed up the process.

[moe666]

7 minutes ago, tropo said:

How do you determine how much finasteride you need? Do you have regular DHT blood tests? I take 1mg per day to prevent hair loss and that is all that is required. I've been on it for just over 6 months and my hair looks better already. A 5mg dose is recommended for prostate enlargement.

 

I would not recommend the OP go anywhere near finasteride. It is a known libido killer and in regard, it's very effective. 1mg per day drops my libido way down. I have to choose between luxurious hair or sex LOL.  

 

I doubt testosterone gel would push testosterone levels high enough to have a problem with high DHT. If you inject testosterone it could become a problem.

 

Yes I know for prostate trouble they recommend 5mg. The original studies were preformed on health men and It took up to 5 mg of finasteride to bring down there DHT. I use 1mg to control my DHT and it works but for others it could be higher. Typically DHT is 5 times stronger than T. Men who have high levels of DHT will suffer from male pattern baldness, a great deal of body hair, as well as a elevated sex drive. When you use finesteride you will experience a drop in sex drive until your body stars using T for one of its rolls. The drop can take 3 to 6 months to change. A few years ago when I discovered my PSA was over 10 I started on 1mg of finesteride and it brought down my PSA to 2.5. I cannot remember my DHT levels nor have the test for a fast check. I use a cream with 10 percent T and my levels are around 800 from a low of 250. Got to do your blood work. Tropo hopefully your libido will return, mine has and no need for helpers

[moe666]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

How do you measure the amount of gel ? just curious dosing with a needle is quite exact and easy (if you have half a brain)

 

I just take something else against the estrogen (aromatization)... the finastride I am not so sure about as one of the side effects could be a bad sex life.  (1 in 10) So far no problems with hair loss.. DHT is what causes that. But I might get finastride just in case. Just hope I wont be one of those 10 

I use a one quarter oz measuring spoon for a dose it comes with the cream I use. I wouldn't worry about the finastride  unless your DHT and PSA levels are high. Do you have abuntant body hair as that can be a marker for someone with high DHT along with male pattern baldness

[tropo]

29 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Yes I know for prostate trouble they recommend 5mg. The original studies were preformed on health men and It took up to 5 mg of finasteride to bring down there DHT. I use 1mg to control my DHT and it works but for others it could be higher. Typically DHT is 5 times stronger than T. Men who have high levels of DHT will suffer from male pattern baldness, a great deal of body hair, as well as a elevated sex drive. When you use finesteride you will experience a drop in sex drive until your body stars using T for one of its rolls. The drop can take 3 to 6 months to change. A few years ago when I discovered my PSA was over 10 I started on 1mg of finesteride and it brought down my PSA to 2.5. I cannot remember my DHT levels nor have the test for a fast check. I use a cream with 10 percent T and my levels are around 800 from a low of 250. Got to do your blood work. Tropo hopefully your libido will return, mine has and no need for helpers

 

My PSA is 0.9. I know my prostate must have been (or is) slightly enlarged due to a lighter urinary flow. I haven't had it inspected yet, but my urination is getting better after 6 months on 1mg per day of finasteride.

 

I don't want to drop my DHT too much as I need it to build or maintain muscle mass.

 

How long did it take to get your libido back?

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Don't be so sure about the hair loss not being a problem. It often disappears too slowly to notice, over years. The disappearance usually starts with thinning out on top, so that's even harder to see. You might not notice it until you see a difference in photographs from years ago.

 

With the information you have, and still a good hairdo, you should think about taking precautions. At least have your DHT tested. Hair lost doesn't always return, even with finasteride. Of course, it's complicated by the fact that most men experience hair thinning as they age, but injecting testosterone to the point of maintaining supraphysiological or high normal levels is a sure way to speed up the process.

True.. it might happen unnoticed.. might look into it.. just hope I am not 1 out of the 10 with low libido.. I would hate that. 

[tropo]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

True.. it might happen unnoticed.. might look into it.. just hope I am not 1 out of the 10 with low libido.. I would hate that. 

 

I don't know about this 1 in 10. I've spent some time on forums discussing the use of finasteride and it seems a lot more prevalent than that. Take a look at old photos and compare. Right now I'd recommend taking some clear photos of the top of your head, so you have a reference. Take some photos with your hair wet and dry. Also check how much your hairline recedes on the forehead.

 

 

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't know about this 1 in 10. I've spent some time on forums discussing the use of finasteride and it seems a lot more prevalent than that. Take a look at old photos and compare. Right now I'd recommend taking some clear photos of the top of your head, so you have a reference. Take some photos with your hair wet and dry. Also check how much your hairline recedes on the forehead.

 

 

I looked into it.. not on forums, but on the side effects it said 1 in 10... probably in their interest to say one in 10 instead 5 in 10... but that was what i read. 

 

Actually my hairline on my forehead has not receded it was something i was always really conscious about because it looked the way it looked early in life. Back of the head might be different.. but need to look into it. 

[tropo]

31 minutes ago, robblok said:

I looked into it.. not on forums, but on the side effects it said 1 in 10... probably in their interest to say one in 10 instead 5 in 10... but that was what i read. 

 

Actually my hairline on my forehead has not receded it was something i was always really conscious about because it looked the way it looked early in life. Back of the head might be different.. but need to look into it. 

 

I wasn't paying close attention - I wish I was. We don't often get a bird's eye view of the top of our heads. Of course there's no way to know if it's from too much DHT, or just a slow progression of male pattern baldness.