berybert Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 4 hours ago, redwinecheese said: I'll be glad to punch you in the face Be careful you don't damaged your nails dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) may nails already trimmed by the gossip 9 minutes ago, berybert said: Be careful you don't damaged your nails dear. may nails already trimmed by the gossip Edited February 14, 2017 by redwinecheese add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 2 hours ago, anotheruser said: You could just learn that single phrase to amuse yourself. Most people who speak Thai well, don't usually sit in bars for two hours being gossiped about. They are usually chatting away merrily in either language to someone, not playing a paranoid 'gotcha' game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The more I learn the less I want to learn. Ignorance is truly a bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGIR Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 "tones are not too important for semi intelligent Thais as long as you add a correct classifier for a word" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said: All of those things are just as easily achieved if you don't speak Thai also...as long as you're half decent looking and not too rude. While I agree that being kind and pleasant is always the right thing to do, it's no substitute for being able to communicate in the local language. No amount of super duper niceness is going to make a Thai girl suddenly fluent in English. And if for nothing else, I'd say being able to speak Thai is pretty darn important if you want to have a meaningful relationship with a typical Thai female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Berkshire said: While I agree that being kind and pleasant is always the right thing to do, it's no substitute for being able to communicate in the local language. No amount of super duper niceness is going to make a Thai girl suddenly fluent in English. And if for nothing else, I'd say being able to speak Thai is pretty darn important if you want to have a meaningful relationship with a typical Thai female. why would you want a 'meaningful relationship with a Thai female'? but seriously I think it's good to have a decent basic Thai but no need for in depth learning unless you 'want to'. Personally I get by with about 30% which i use for simple banter and questions etc. Trust me many girls do NOT want you to speak to much Thai as they think you may 'know too mut' 555 Edited February 14, 2017 by LannaGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, LannaGuy said: why would you want a 'meaningful relationship with a Thai female'? but seriously I think it's good to have a decent basic Thai but no need for in depth learning unless you 'want to'. Personally I get by with about 30% which i use for simple banter and questions etc. Trust me many girls do NOT want you to speak to much Thai as they think you may 'know too mut' 555 Your last sentence is the most common myth perpetuated by guys who can't/won't learn the local language. Pretty much every Thai I know are appreciative that foreigners make the effort to learn their language. If there are any Thai girls who actually fit that description, it would obviously be someone looking to scam you, e.g., girls who require a barfine. And even in that case, it would be a huge advantage to be able to "pretend" that you don't understand what they're talking about. Edited February 14, 2017 by Berkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermannor Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 To pretend not to understand Thai when in fact you understand it, I regard as gross dishonesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malt25 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, bermannor said: To pretend not to understand Thai when in fact you understand it, I regard as gross dishonesty. Dishonest !!! Bloody hell, they started it. It'll take another few generations before we even get close to em. & no, this isn't Thai bashing. I'm usually somewhat of an apologist if anything. Just sayin........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermannor Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 35 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Your last sentence is the most common myth perpetuated by guys who can't/won't learn the local language. Pretty much every Thai I know are appreciative that foreigners make the effort to learn their language. If there are any Thai girls who actually fit that description, it would obviously be someone looking to scam you, e.g., girls who require a barfine. And even in that case, it would be a huge advantage to be able to "pretend" that you don't understand what they're talking about. Why is trying to get a barfine or getting it a scam??? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Berkshire said: While I agree that being kind and pleasant is always the right thing to do, it's no substitute for being able to communicate in the local language. No amount of super duper niceness is going to make a Thai girl suddenly fluent in English. And if for nothing else, I'd say being able to speak Thai is pretty darn important if you want to have a meaningful relationship with a typical Thai female. We are talking as if no Thai women can speak English...yeah, if you go to the sticks to find a Thai women who is dead poor, sure, she may not have much grasp of the English language as she has never had opportunity. However, if you look for a highly educated Thai woman then the chances improve dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) From what I can see there are different levels of the Thai language...for example I used to work with two people who both had PhD's in the chemistry and maths field, however, they could not pass the 'Thai language' part to become a government official. They could pass the English part though lol. So sure we can learn the odd word here and there but i think it is truly difficult to grasp the language as a whole. Plus, most people who claim to speak Thai, generally cant. I showed my wife a video of a westerner who advertised teaching Thai to other westerners. She couldn't understand his accent without hearing it 3 times (she did pass the government test and scored the second highest Thai language score in all of Thailand so it's not as if shes an idiot with the Thai language)...and really, do us westerners need to learn it? I think most people can go through every day life pretty comfortably without it. From what i have heard, Thai conversations can be pretty dull, especially Thai meetings. So does the effort of learning it (some people aren't actually physically wired to be able to learn it - another variable), really reward you enough to bother going through it? Just living here without any effort is enough for you to get by. Speaking Thai does not improve the meaningfulness of a relationship unless the Thai person cannot speak your language. If that is the case, then I cant see the point of the relationship to begin with. ***Not to mention all the cultural/religious/political clashes that could potentially come about. Edited February 14, 2017 by wildewillie89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnaturally Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Conversely, Im here awhile because I get an income from the USA to compensate me for an 8 week coma I sustained. For most of my first year I didnt have a problem because everyone, pretty much, spoke English. I have moved to an area where virtually no one does. I was weak language skillswize to begin with and the head injury affects mu memory and attention. I feel isolated sometimes plus, I have a lot I want to learn and a lot to say. Bottom line: How can I get myself to be able to communicate decently and, maybe more important, understand whats being said around me? (Ive had some issues w thieves) thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 hours ago, faraday said: Quite agree with you op, & when 'they' don't understand english, just shout at them. Not sure if your comment is in jest, but I am aware of an American guy (a Ph.D. holder with quite some accomplishments in medical research) who moved here on early retirement, died here about 15 years later, died pauper, family in US didn't want to know, had no friends, quite an unpleasant man. In 14 years he learned zero Thai, he make a conscious decision on arrival that he would not learn Thai. He abused taxi drivers every day. He would give them long details of where he wanted to go, in English and because they didn't understand what he was saying he would get angry and thump the dashboard etc. His abuse included saying things, in English very loudly and very slowly and several times, then a comment to anybody travelling with him 'see I said it loud and 4 times and he still doesn't understand because he's stoopid' (sic). He ate alone 99% of the time because nobody would sit with him and be embarrassed by his abuse to waiters etc. He was barred from at 2 restaurants near his apartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenifer d Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 10 hours ago, bermannor said: So, either communication is not a big thing for you or you expect others to learn your language. Welcome Massa! i am so glad you said this; my sentiments exactly- one of my pet peeves in my 7 1/2 years here is others who have lived here longer than i not saying much more than hello, thank you, and 1 Chang or 1 Sing (btw, it's Sing, NOT Singha, ala it's not Suvharnabhumi, but pronounced Suvanabhum) -the refusal to even attempt to learn the language when one settles in a foreign country is nothing short of an arrogant colonial attitude (even were i to live in Sweden, for intance, even though English is required 2nd language, i would immediately start learning Swedish any which way i could)- my Thai neighbors and friends say i speak quite well (i myself say that i understand most of what's said, and maybe speak about 20-30%; my friends laughingly correct that to "hasip percent"; i can also read and write it, however not nearly well enough for my taste, good thing i have 2 Thai dictionaries by my side and friends more than willing to help me learn more) i've heard ALL the lame excuses (many of them on TVF here and other threads) and each and every one is just BS rationalization of laziness, arrogance, and cultural imperialism- i myself am 60 years old, and i find that my efforts are rewarded every day in myriad different ways; and when i misspeak, whomever i am talking with corrects me with a smile... re classifiers, they are generally not as important as the right initial consonant and vowel tone; even with improper tone, one will be understood because the other options would not make sense in context i consider myself to be fortunate and blessed to have started a whole new life here in a place where i am now quite well-known and well-liked; of course the fact that i am an accomplished musician helps quite a bit in that... ok, let the sh*tstorm begin let's see what excuses THIS response dredges up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, scorecard said: Not sure if your comment is in jest, but I am aware of an American guy (a Ph.D. holder with quite some accomplishments in medical research) who moved here on early retirement, died here about 15 years later, died pauper, family in US didn't want to know, had no friends, quite an unpleasant man. In 14 years he learned zero Thai, he make a conscious decision on arrival that he would not learn Thai. He abused taxi drivers every day. He would give them long details of where he wanted to go, in English and because they didn't understand what he was saying he would get angry and thump the dashboard etc. His abuse included saying things, in English very loudly and very slowly and several times, then a comment to anybody travelling with him 'see I said it loud and 4 times and he still doesn't understand because he's stoopid' (sic). He ate alone 99% of the time because nobody would sit with him and be embarrassed by his abuse to waiters etc. He was barred from at 2 restaurants near his apartment. I forgot one point - the man concerned was always convinced that his stand to refuse to learn Thai would impress people. So stupid for an educated person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, scorecard said: He was barred from at 2 restaurants near his apartment. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, jenifer d said: i am so glad you said this; my sentiments exactly- one of my pet peeves in my 7 1/2 years here is others who have lived here longer than i not saying much more than hello, thank you, and 1 Chang or 1 Sing (btw, it's Sing, NOT Singha, ala it's not Suvharnabhumi, but pronounced Suvanabhum) -the refusal to even attempt to learn the language when one settles in a foreign country is nothing short of an arrogant colonial attitude (even were i to live in Sweden, for intance, even though English is required 2nd language, i would immediately start learning Swedish any which way i could)- my Thai neighbors and friends say i speak quite well (i myself say that i understand most of what's said, and maybe speak about 20-30%; my friends laughingly correct that to "hasip percent"; i can also read and write it, however not nearly well enough for my taste, good thing i have 2 Thai dictionaries by my side and friends more than willing to help me learn more) i've heard ALL the lame excuses (many of them on TVF here and other threads) and each and every one is just BS rationalization of laziness, arrogance, and cultural imperialism- i myself am 60 years old, and i find that my efforts are rewarded every day in myriad different ways; and when i misspeak, whomever i am talking with corrects me with a smile... re classifiers, they are generally not as important as the right initial consonant and vowel tone; even with improper tone, one will be understood because the other options would not make sense in context i consider myself to be fortunate and blessed to have started a whole new life here in a place where i am now quite well-known and well-liked; of course the fact that i am an accomplished musician helps quite a bit in that... ok, let the sh*tstorm begin let's see what excuses THIS response dredges up I think many people just know their limitations...I for one used to study Japanese and found i could converse and write about my weekend in Japanese quite easily (formal study). Chinese and now Thai are different matters as I find the tones hard (no formal study, just hanging out with people). Being a musician would probably benefit you with a tone language. Generally speaking, my family believe now that i can comprehend the topics of discussions but not the finer details. And as stated earlier, my tone when speaking I know myself isn't good at all. The same way that the majority of Thai dont believe many westerners tones aren't that crash hot, they are just polite. On a different note many people know that picking up a new language is just too far beyond what they are capable of. To call them arrogant i think is arrogant in itself...especially when a simple brain scan can now tell you if you're likely to succeed at learning the language. Maybe you fail at running marathons as you havent got the physical make up for it and you know that you will fail as you have tried and tried before....are you arrogant for not trying if you move to a community where you need to run a lot? lol. The Journal of Neuroscience published a report that was in a news story: Learning a second language is far easier for some adults than others because of innate differences in how the various parts of the brain "talk" to one another. The difference is so striking that researchers can even predict who will succeed in language skills, and who will fail, simply based on brain scans. Scientists at McGill University in Canada found that if left anterior operculum and the left superior temporal gyrus communicate more with each other at rest, then language learning is easier. "These findings have implications for predicting language learning success and failure," said study author Dr Xiaoqian Chai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 2 hours ago, bermannor said: To pretend not to understand Thai when in fact you understand it, I regard as gross dishonesty. That's the best way to get to know really quickly what they truly think about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madusa Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Normally when I try to find out the level of English of a Thai lady, I will ask her if she understood what I have just said, that is , "Making Love is having fun without laughing". This sentence is the yardstick every Expat or Newbie arriving in Thailand should use. Edited February 14, 2017 by madusa correct a letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwinecheese Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 8 hours ago, elgordo38 said: ????? suck it up buttercup and a good scrub down as well to go with it. Don't look a gift gal in the mouth. What other personal things are you complaining about. Forget it I will just let my vivid imagination run wild. Can you please speak common English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, redwinecheese said: Can you please speak common English Quote When I date some girls some do really personaol things like cutting my finger nails unquote, Besides your spelling and use of words lets leave common English lie. There is the fact that Thai ladies are very concerned about a man their mans appearance. Suck it up enjoy some pampering do you have issues about pampering? If so I can understand. I enjoy being doted on again maybe you have issues with this. She will gladly scrub your back trim your nails nasal hairs etc. lay back and enjoy it don't turn it into a personaol issue. A little cheese with your whine.???? Edited February 14, 2017 by elgordo38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1xer Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 My life would be very different if I did not possess an understanding of Thai. When visiting my family I would feel very isolated if I could not understand what is going on. I know my tonal renditions are often way off but I seem to get by and my mispronunciation often causes merriment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, wildewillie89 said: We are talking as if no Thai women can speak English...yeah, if you go to the sticks to find a Thai women who is dead poor, sure, she may not have much grasp of the English language as she has never had opportunity. However, if you look for a highly educated Thai woman then the chances improve dramatically. The level of education has zero to do with strong English skills. You are aware that Thai universities teach in the Thai language, correct? So a Thai female with a PhD may speak less English than an uneducated bargirl. Unless they majored in English, attend an international school, or got their post-grad degree overseas, most educated Thai females are not going to be real proficient in English. And frankly, they don't need to be, living in Thailand. Edited February 14, 2017 by Berkshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermannor Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 11 hours ago, georgemandm said: You are so wrong you need the tones ok and yes you can get pass as you say but , most Thais will not understand you if you not give them the right tone . Been trying to lean thai for 7 years off and on and it is very hard . Just started back at thai school last Sunday and it was great to get back in to it . I for one love talking thai and if I am in a foreign country I think you most lean there language . Yes Massa, but your "ok" doesn't make your statement more convincing! Or have you been a drill sergeant? need = too important ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermannor Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 11 hours ago, redwinecheese said: You must come to Thailand and so does everybody, because words cannot describe the people over here. I assume you mean the farang expats ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Berkshire said: The level of education has zero to do with strong English skills. You are aware that Thai universities teach in the Thai language, correct? So a Thai female with a PhD may speak less English than an uneducated bargirl. Unless they majored in English, attend an international school, or got their post-grad degree overseas, most educated Thai females are not going to be real proficient in English. And frankly, they don't need to be, living in Thailand. There is differences in English, those who are educated are proficient in written English, those who are not and have experience talking to 20 different guys each night are proficient in English conversation. Those who are educated can speak the English they are proficient in writing, just lack confidence as they haven't 20 guys a night to speak to. I am well aware of having a PhD and not being able to speak English due to confidence, however, to even pass their application to receive a PhD they have to one, present the reasoning as to why they want to be a PhD student in English (at a Thai university), and two, to get into any sort of credible university you must pass the English test. Do badly on the English component part of the Bachelor entrance exam and you go to a poor university. And as we all know it is really only the top 4 or 5 universities in Thailand that can actually be considered as half decent academic institutions. The rest will give you a Masters for free just so they can use your name as advertisement (as happened with someone i know recently). If they are highly educated, they do need English....I've had my appendix out and a few dog bites in the last few months, and vaccinations for my baby (every doctor i have seen under 35 (which is 6 or 7 doctors can speak English just fine). I live in a city with barely any Westerners. When Thai officials have conferences in Malaysia or other neighbouring countries, they send over officials who speak, wait for it, English! Also, depending on your own interests to have a decent conversation with someone there needs to be some level of education. Educated people are always willing to try and improve and get those opportunities. I am sure many bar girls conversations are limited due to lack of opportunity/education, if they had the opportunity they wouldn't be a bar girl to begin with. The university entrance score for English is like 26%....which kind of demonstrates where the educated people are. At the top universities. Unless, of course, they spend their weekends drinking with farang, but that is not my personal preference for the type of girl i would meet lol. Of course, you can find bar girls and taxi drivers who speak perfect English, but is that really the relationship you want....it may be, who am i or anyone else to judge. But in saying that you can also find many educated, government, private company girls who speak just as good from their education and commitment to learning (rather than meeting 1000s of men). And that is where interesting conversations will come from my previous experience when i was meeting a lot of people. In saying all that it is a sad situation. I would say only 5% of Thai families recognise the importance of English in getting either a government job or a good university to get a good private job and get their kids to study it early, whilst their brains are young and easier to wire up. I have worked with someone who majored in English and speaks zero English lol. It isn't the education necessarily in Thailand, unfortunately, it is where the education occured that makes the difference...hence the 'level of education;. Edited February 15, 2017 by wildewillie89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1xer Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I know a number of Thais who are graduates and many have good degrees. Their skill in English is in reading and writing, few are confident in speaking the language unless their work brings them into regular contact with falangs.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 17 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said: There are highly educated people in my office in California and believe me I hear inane, banal and ignorant comments all the time. I certainly don't need to understand similar trivia in another language Why would you think everybody is the same as your colleagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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