Thailand receives 2,000-year-old Tipitaka from Norway

 

BANGKOK, 17 February 2017, (NNT) - A 2,000-year-old Tipitaka has been presented to the Kingdom of Thailand by the Conservation Institute of Schoyen from Norway. 

The Tipitaka was enshrined at Wat Saket in Bangkok last night, with Minister attached to the Prime Minister’s Office Omsin Chiwaphruek chairing the ceremony. 

Also attending the event were Norwegian ambassador to Thailand Kjetil Paulsen, the abbot of Wat Saket, and representatives of the Conservation Institute of Schoyen. 

National Office of Buddhism Director Phanom Sornsin explained that the Tipitaka whose content was written on palm leaves was discovered on the mountains of Bamiyan in Afghanistan by the Conservation Institute. 

The director also disclosed that the Norwegian institute purchased the relic from a British merchant and decided to hand it over to Thailand, in order to tighten the bond between the two nations as well as preserve Buddhism.

 

-- nnt 2017-02-17

Guess they found it while they were cleaning out the garage at the library?

  With so much scheming and politics between countries at the moment, it's nice to see a simple goodwill gesture such as this 

6 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Guess they found it while they were cleaning out the garage at the library?

I guess you are wrong.

If it was found in Afghanistan why didn't they hand it back to Afghanistan..what's Thailand got to do with it ?

33 minutes ago, johng said:

If it was found in Afghanistan why didn't they hand it back to Afghanistan..what's Thailand got to do with it ?

I think the fear is that when the Taliban returns they will return to their old ways of destroying objects of idolatry, which they regard Buddhism to be. I don't think there is a Buddhist Temple in Afghanistan, and would be glad if I am wrong and somebody corrects me.

The Taliban, ISUL and others of similar ideology have been busy destroying ancient artworks throughout the Islam countries. Any culture before Islam is heresy according to  them. In Afghanistan they have already blown up and destroyed many ancient works of art. (not to mention Syria, Iraq and Yemen)  Whether these artworks should have been returned to India, Sri Lanka or Thailand is problematic. They have been returned to a majority Buddhist country and I am sure that they will be well looked after. And will increase prosperity for this particular wat.  

As a Norwegian I approve this gesture. It looks like we picked up the bill and handed it over to Thailand but we can afford it I guess.  Good job 

Quote

National Office of Buddhism Director Phanom Sornsin explained that the Tipitaka whose content was written on palm leaves was discovered on the mountains of Bamiyan in Afghanistan by the Conservation Institute. 

 

Please prove me wrong. This story doesn't add up at all.

 

More likely, colonial British-Indian looters during the Raj nicked the manuscript from Bamiyan in Afghanistan from a defunct Buddhist monastery. The stuff ended up in London and subsequently in a private collection of an eccentric  bus company owner in Oslo during the first part of the 20th century . The Norwegian Government obtained the document form this private collection and gave it to some temple in Thailand...

 

http://www.schoyencollection.com/about-schoyen-collection

Edited February 17, 20179 yr by Morakot

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

I think the fear is that when the Taliban returns they will return to their old ways of destroying objects of idolatry, which they regard Buddhism to be. I don't think there is a Buddhist Temple in Afghanistan, and would be glad if I am wrong and somebody corrects me.

 

Yes not correct, there are no Taliban in Oslo where it came from and no Taliban in Afghanistan either when it was taken from there aeons ago.

Edited February 17, 20179 yr by Morakot

I don't think you should be wanting to know who picked up the bill. Many countries hold stolen artworks. This includes many countries who hold Norse artworks. All should be returned to responsible countries. 

Morakot, do you truly believe that these ancient manuscripts will be cared for by the Taliban should they be returned to Afghanistan. The Taliban has been destroying these works of art for decades

6 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Morakot, do you truly believe that these ancient manuscripts will be cared for by the Taliban should they be returned to Afghanistan. The Taliban has been destroying these works of art for decades

Who said anything about returning?

 

There is no need to obscure the facts and make up some nonsense about "conservation" or what not .

 

It's debatable whether stolen  artefacts should remain in Oslo or moved to Bangkok. One thing for sure, making up a story will not help answering important questions like, who should be the rightful custodian of such objects at this time.

Edited February 17, 20179 yr by Morakot

Good show by Norway. It was mean of them not to give that mountain to Finland though.

Ok, Marakot. They should have been returned to the Taliban to burn. Or held like the Elgian? tablets in Britain. One thing for sure is that the Norse do not have any qualifications to own them.

7 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Ok, Marakot. They should have been returned to the Taliban to burn. Or held like the Elgian? tablets in Britain. One thing for sure is that the Norse do not have any qualifications to own them.

It don't think anyone "owns" them really. 

 

The question is who should be the custodian of it. Whether a temple in Bangkok or a private collection in Oslo, it's not for me to say. There are arguments for and against it.

 

And no, it should not be burned. People have a responsibility towards their fellow human being regardless whether they agree with each other's religious views nor not.

Edited February 17, 20179 yr by Morakot

57 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

The Taliban, ISUL and others of similar ideology have been busy destroying ancient artworks throughout the Islam countries. Any culture before Islam is heresy according to  them. In Afghanistan they have already blown up and destroyed many ancient works of art. (not to mention Syria, Iraq and Yemen)  Whether these artworks should have been returned to India, Sri Lanka or Thailand is problematic. They have been returned to a majority Buddhist country and I am sure that they will be well looked after. And will increase prosperity for this particular wat.  

One has to remember though that Thailand is home to many radical Islamic radicals, especially down south, safer than Afghanistan I'm sure but not totally.   Although I'm not Buddhist I totally respect them and fear for any historic demolition, religious or otherwise.     

Morakot, I believe we are on the same page as a different edition of a book. 

7 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Or held like the Elgian? tablets in Britain.

The worst part about this is that (we) the British not only stole them, but blatantly lied to the Greeks when they said you get them back when you have a proper museum built and know how to look after them. Very sad story...

Morakot, did not know you were British and am sorry for the example. But it is true that the Buddhist countries deserve to have some of the culture returned even though it may more resemble Indian Buddhism than Thai Buddhism. Not to worry mate, The manuscripts have a new home and a new point of homage

Not to worry Spiderorchid. I think you make a valuable point why they should be here and not In Norway.

Ok mate, all good to Marakot. In Australia, various religious artefacts were returned to traditional aborigines. From countries all around the world who had taken the heads, body parts and privates of the indigenous population to prove one theory or another. No one has the authority to ask what happened to the body parts. The boomerangs, fighting sticks, spears and other implements are held in Aboriginal museums. It is win win because the aboriginies have a basis for their culture, for the rest of us we can see a culture that is arguably 70,000 years old.

Better to have sent it to Taiwan , a country with a genuine interest in the preservation of Buddhist relics. Maybe that would have been too political.

On 2/17/2017 at 9:52 PM, Morakot said:

 

Yes not correct, there are no Taliban in Oslo where it came from and no Taliban in Afghanistan either when it was taken from there aeons ago.

No, the manuscript was originally found in Afghanistan, then taken to Norway. The question I was responding to was why it was not returned to Afghanistan.  It was not taken from Afghanistan aeons ago. It was taken from Afghanistan about twelve or fifteen years ago, after the Taliban had been expelled. If the Taliban had found it they would have destroyed it. The Taliban are certainly going to come back after the Americans leave. 

Edited February 20, 20179 yr by Acharn

On 2/18/2017 at 2:15 AM, Prbkk said:

Better to have sent it to Taiwan , a country with a genuine interest in the preservation of Buddhist relics. Maybe that would have been too political.

Depends. If the manuscript was in Pali it is more appropriate to be preserved in a country which follows the Theravada tradition. Taiwan is Mahayana. They revere other Sutras, in Sanskrit, more than the Pali scriptures, which they denigrate as the Small Vehicle. I don't know where the most current scholarship in Pali is being conducted.

Edited February 20, 20179 yr by Acharn

Some posters are talking semantics. The ancient Buddhist philosophy spread the Theravada tradition to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, the southern part of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia and so on. The Muslims wiped out most of that culture when they expanded their religion. Remnants of Theravada survive, mostly in Sri Lanka, Thailand,  Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, very southern Vietnam and India. Because of the political situation the manuscript cannot be returned to Afghanistan, Pakistan or India. So filter down and that leaves Thailand or Sri Lanka. In Sri Lanka, Buddhism has been commandeered by Hindu. That leaves Thailand. All countries north of Vietnam and India are Mahayana Buddhist and other various Chinese and Japanese versions. So the Norse made a good moral and political decision to send it to Thailand. I hope other nations that hold plundered artifacts also return the stolen goodies. 

On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Prbkk said:

Better to have sent it to Taiwan , a country with a genuine interest in the preservation of Buddhist relics. Maybe that would have been too political.

Or give it to the missing Abbot who vaporised.... he can use something better than an amulet these days....

5 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Some posters are talking semantics. The ancient Buddhist philosophy spread the Theravada tradition to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, the southern part of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia and so on. The Muslims wiped out most of that culture when they expanded their religion. Remnants of Theravada survive, mostly in Sri Lanka, Thailand,  Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, very southern Vietnam and India. Because of the political situation the manuscript cannot be returned to Afghanistan, Pakistan or India. So filter down and that leaves Thailand or Sri Lanka. In Sri Lanka, Buddhism has been commandeered by Hindu. That leaves Thailand. All countries north of Vietnam and India are Mahayana Buddhist and other various Chinese and Japanese versions. So the Norse made a good moral and political decision to send it to Thailand. I hope other nations that hold plundered artifacts also return the stolen goodies. 

Myanmar laos cambodia too low for u?

Mook 23, are you suggesting that Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia are Mahayana? Or perhaps that the Buddhist philosophy and the political situation is more stable than Thailand. Give those 3 countries time and perhaps they too could have been the recipients. But surely not now.

On 2/17/2017 at 11:54 PM, johng said:

If it was found in Afghanistan why didn't they hand it back to Afghanistan..what's Thailand got to do with it ?

Thailand is the home of Buddhism