Local Amphoe Refuse Marriage Registration

[thetruth revealer]

Since we are already planning our Wedding since several months, we inquired the legal requierements trough TWO Thai Friends , at the local Amphoe in Chiangmai.

We have explained in detail our situation , that the Spouse is 19 years old and which Nationality (ASEAN ).

The Instructions we received , trough our TWO friends , one of them is Working in Thai Government as well , another is Thai language Teacher, have explained that a `` Written consent of Parental Advice `` have to be performed and  MFA legalized, translated etc. , a part of the usual Marriage Capacity Affidavit etc.

So, finally we had all Documents required ready, and went to the local Amphoe for register the Marriage .

 

Surprisingly , they demanded the Spouse Parents to come PERSONALLY and sign ......

 

At the end , we couldnt get Married with Thai authorities and they insisted repeatedly .

 

Not to mention , what troubles they caused us because of their incompetence .

 

Now, what is the legal situation , if we want to file a Complaint against the responsable Amphoe Staff , because of incomplete and incorrect Instructions?

 

Im fully aware that there will be not change in their policy, but at least they can deal with their own incompetence , and hopefully get a nice a**kick .

 

 

Im sure, and i actually know, that sometimes they denied other Couples ( THAI - Foreigner) to get Marry and im just wondering if they can get trough with that whenever they feel like ???

 

Wouldnt they have to accept the Documents issued from our both Embassy , MFA legalized, translated into Thai language etc ??

 

Whats the legal situation, if denied Service at Thai Authorities????

 

What steps have to be taken , according Thai Law and what would possibly be the outcome??

 

 

Thanks and Greets

 

 

 

[Swiss1960]

Step one: try another Amphoe, they might not require the parents to be present.

Forget about complaining, unless you have prove (CCTV with audio, written statement) that you specifically asked about parents to be present and we're told "no"

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[thetruth revealer]

16 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

Step one: try another Amphoe, they might not require the parents to be present.

Forget about complaining, unless you have prove (CCTV with audio, written statement) that you specifically asked about parents to be present and we're told "no"

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Step one already done , Swiss1960 .

 

Inquiry in Bangrak Office resulted in the same , but at least with our first request .

Yes, we have proof of the written conversation from our Thai friend and other witness which inquired personally at the local Amphoe Office after beeing denied in the first instance.

 

(I wouldnt hesitate either to involve the witness in this case giving statements regarding their inquiry and result , given wrong and incomplete advices etc  )

 

 

What concerns me most is, if they was right according Thai law, to request the Spouse parents personally or should have accepted the "Written Consent of parental advice " and legal Documents issued from our both Embassy ????

 

( BTW, im also Swiss , sent you PN .)

Edited February 19, 2017 by thetruth revealer

[DavidOxon]

Just take her to Switzerland and marry her if it's so complicated here?

 

Personally I think the cosmos just did you a big favour !)

 

D

Edited February 19, 2017 by DavidOxon

[harrry]

You may find it easier to wait until her 20th birthday when she is an adult.  

Sometimes the ampur can seem as if they have been taking too many lessons from Yes Minister.

 

on second thoughts it could relate to the legal age in her country of nationality if it is not Thai.

As you  have not told us which nationality it is hard to help you.

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by harrry

[blackcab]

This is Thailand. You do get different answers from different people, for various reasons.

 

It's perfectly likely that last time they married a child they didn't need the parents to attend, and they advised you on that basis.

 

Since then there could be a new superior officer who decided they do want parental attendance. If that superior officer made that decision then the lower ranks cannot say anything, they have to strictly do as they are told.

 

By complaining all you will do is pressure the person on the bottom rung who has no authority to do anything. They can't even tell you who overruled them.

 

In terms of complaints, everything you can do is a waste if time unless you want to stick around a few years and pay to take the matter to the Administrative Court.

 

You have 3 options:

 

Bring the parents.

Wait until she is 20.

Go to another country where the age of consent is 19 or less.

[thetruth revealer]

18 hours ago, harrry said:

You may find it easier to wait until her 20th birthday when she is an adult.  

Sometimes the ampur can seem as if they have been taking too many lessons from Yes Minister.

 

on second thoughts it could relate to the legal age in her country of nationality if it is not Thai.

As you  have not told us which nationality it is hard to help you.

 

The law of her country doesnt matter in that case , because we provided her Embassy already " Written consent of parental  advice" , which is requiered to get the Marriage Licence in the first instance.

So far , thats NOT the problem.

Even pointing this out, they insisted to get her parents here.

And, regarding prior inquiry, we have the statement from the Amphoe that this "Written consent of parental  advice" would be accepted as well when legalized and authenticated and translated in thai.

 

Once we fullfilled, they denied.

 

Unclear, incomplete and half true informations from the person in Charge at Amphoe , and the loss of face thing is what causes us inconviniences and unnecessairy waste of time, money for Thai Translations and pacience.

 

 

TIT

[thetruth revealer]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

This is Thailand. You do get different answers from different people, for various reasons.

 

It's perfectly likely that last time they married a child they didn't need the parents to attend, and they advised you on that basis.

 

Since then there could be a new superior officer who decided they do want parental attendance. If that superior officer made that decision then the lower ranks cannot say anything, they have to strictly do as they are told.

 

By complaining all you will do is pressure the person on the bottom rung who has no authority to do anything. They can't even tell you who overruled them.

 

In terms of complaints, everything you can do is a waste if time unless you want to stick around a few years and pay to take the matter to the Administrative Court.

 

You have 3 options:

 

Bring the parents.

Wait until she is 20.

Go to another country where the age of consent is 19 or less.

First , to clarify , the pressure is on us , because the validity of the documents is limited .

y

Second, if the person in charge made a mistake , why not communicate it , to prevent similar situations.

Thirdly, i dont give a s**t if that person get asskicked, because we have to deal with that too and figure out however, because they misinformed us.

 

Loss of face ...blablabla

 

Luckely, we have another option, and dont need to to anything with thai authorities anymore.

 

Its about time , that certain people have to stand for what they failed and pay consequences.

 

Why would we have to adjust this mistakes caused from others  and nothing in return happens ???

 

 

BTW, Bangrak District Office , give us the correct instructions first time when we inquired there, just out of curiosity,after the denial in Chiangmai and insisted her parents to show up from begin.

 

So, why is it so difficult to tell this here in Chiangmai??????

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by thetruth revealer

[harrry]

The law of her country is what matters as this is what the law in Thailand requires.  Not a letter from her embassy dispensing with this.  This is Thailand and has laws.  Many of them regarding marriage and travel are restrictive and much of this is due to pressure on them to prevent human trafficing which can take many forms.  If these relate to marriage age they are fully entitle to enforce them as would Switzerland.

Edited February 20, 2017 by harrry

[blackcab]

4 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

First , to clarify , the pressure is on us , because the validity of the documents is limited .

y

Second, if the person in charge made a mistake , why not communicate it , to prevent similar situations.

Thirdly, i dont give a s**t if that person get asskicked, because we have to deal with that too and figure out however, because they misinformed us.

 

Loss of face ...blablabla

 

Luckely, we have another option, and dont need to to anything with thai authorities anymore.

 

Its about time , that certain people have to stand for what they failed and pay consequences.

 

Why would we have to adjust this mistakes caused from others  and nothing in return happens ???

 

 

BTW, Bangrak District Office , give us the correct instructions first time when we inquired there, just out of curiosity,after the denial in Chiangmai and insisted her parents to show up from begin.

 

So, why is it so difficult to tell this here in Chiangmai??????

 

 

 

Please talk to the best lawyer you can afford and insist the matter be presented to the Administrative Court.

 

Please keep us updated on your progress. It will be helpful to other people who have problems in the future.

[4evermaat]

Try another amphoe or province where they deal with foreigners more frequently.

Like somewhere in bangkok. Also, ask some of her friends who may have married foreigner what the process was.

BTW, what is the nationality of your fiancée?

[thetruth revealer]

1 hour ago, harrry said:

The law of her country is what matters as this is what the law in Thailand requires.  Not a letter from her embassy dispensing with this.  This is Thailand and has laws.  Many of them regarding marriage and travel are restrictive and much of this is due to pressure on them to prevent human trafficing which can take many forms.  If these relate to marriage age they are fully entitle to enforce them as would Switzerland.

The law of her Country doesnt restrict her based on her legal age of 19 ,  as i stated prior.

 

As well, the Amphoe denied, regardless what her Home Country says, and never refered to any 3.Countries Rules.

 

Otherwise the Embassy wouldnt issue the" Legal Capacity of Marriage"

 

Thailand has laws, yes, and as mentioned, the Bangrak District Office told us from begin what they required.

That her parents have to come personally. PERIOD.

 

The only mistake is that Chiangmai Amphoe Staff miscommunicated and misinformed us , by priorly stating they WOULD accept the "Written  Consent " and afterwords refused.

 

No need to justify or look outside , the mistake is obvious and there are quite a few Thai People involved pissed off this too.

 

 

 

 

 

If you dont understand the situation, im happy if you dont post any comments.

[junglechef]

What's the secret as to your fiancee's nationality?

 

Firstly it could be revelant. 

 

Secondly people who are trying to help you have asked a few time so it's only common courtesy to reply

 

You have brought this issue to public discussion and should act appreciative not uncooperative 

[harrry]

I have come to the conclusion that the girl is from Cambodia and the Guy is aged over 50 and thus prohibited by Cambodian law from marrying.  

I would be happy to find I am wrong but that would explain the reason the thai Government requires her parents presence to give consent.

[Norrad]

Ages are taken into account too. What is the age difference between the two of you? Two friends just got married with the girl being 18 and the boy 21 years old. I was asked to sign as a witness and no questions were asked regarding parents etc.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Norrad

[thetruth revealer]

1 hour ago, junglechef said:

What's the secret as to your fiancee's nationality?

 

Firstly it could be revelant. 

 

Secondly people who are trying to help you have asked a few time so it's only common courtesy to reply

 

You have brought this issue to public discussion and should act appreciative not uncooperative 

The focus is not on her Nationality .

 

Instead,  read my initial post NR.1.

Its a case of arbitray denial and misinformation from Thai Authorities , here in Chiangmai and nothing else, and therefore im seeking for bringing this to attention , with whatever outcome .

 

We spoke to the corresponding Embassy and they just said if the Amphoe wasnt aible to read in English whats the requierements of their country....

 

So , clearly , thats NOT the problem.

 

Do you know what a "Written consent of parental Advice" means ????

 

Harry : your assumption is wrong and it has nothing to do with her nationality, once again....

 

 

 

Is it really so hard to realize and accept  that the local Amphoe Staff in charge failed , and repeatedly ??

 

We was even told from said Amphoe Staff , that regardles what her Home Country rules are, in Thailand until the age of 20 the parents have to be present. once we had all ready legalized etc,  what the requiered initially.

So , how come they changed their mind , once we where there and fullfilling what they asked for ??? To much Kao niao ????

 

And thats not the problem either, but the misinformation, incomplete and misleading, inquired with 2 different  Thai Citizen in advance and afterwords another well reputated Thai which tried to fix the issue .

 

Without any success.

 

Im just wondering if such Official Person isnt liable for any mistakes ???

Whats the purpose , of such institution??????

 

See the point?

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by thetruth revealer

[thetruth revealer]

On 19.2.2017 at 11:48 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Step one: try another Amphoe, they might not require the parents to be present.

Forget about complaining, unless you have prove (CCTV with audio, written statement) that you specifically asked about parents to be present and we're told "no"

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

yes i have the conversation saved ....

 

 

BTW, i just found this right now;

 

Chapter II: Conditions of Marriage

Section 1448. A marriage can occur only when the man and woman have finished their seventeenth year of age. But the Court may, in case of having appropriate reason, permit them to marry before attaining such age.

Section 1455. Providing consent that the marriage may be made:

1. By written signature of the person providing consent in the Register at the time of registration of the marriage;
2. By a consent document stating the names of the parties to the marriage and signed by the person providing consent;
3. By verbal declaration before at least two witnesses in case of necessity.

The consent having been given cannot be revoked.

 

 

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/marriage-law-thailand.html

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by thetruth revealer

[junglechef]

39 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

The focus is not on her Nationality .

 

Instead,  read my initial post NR.1.

Its a case of arbitray denial and misinformation from Thai Authorities , here in Chiangmai and nothing else, and therefore im seeking for bringing this to attention , with whatever outcome .

 

We spoke to the corresponding Embassy and they just said if the Amphoe wasnt aible to read in English whats the requierements of their country....

 

So , clearly , thats NOT the problem.

 

Do you know what a "Written consent of parental Advice" means ????

 

Harry : your assumption is wrong and it has nothing to do with her nationality, once again....

 

 

 

Is it really so hard to realize and accept  that the local Amphoe Staff in charge failed , and repeatedly ??

 

We was even told from said Amphoe Staff , that regardles what her Home Country rules are, in Thailand until the age of 20 the parents have to be present. once we had all ready legalized etc,  what the requiered initially.

So , how come they changed their mind , once we where there and fullfilling what they asked for ??? To much Kao niao ????

 

And thats not the problem either, but the misinformation, incomplete and misleading, inquired with 2 different  Thai Citizen in advance and afterwords another well reputated Thai which tried to fix the issue .

 

Without any success.

 

Im just wondering if such Official Person isnt liable for any mistakes ???

Whats the purpose , of such institution??????

 

See the point?

 

 

 

So what's the secret of your fiancé  nationality? 

 

I and others have just said that it might be revelant, not that it's the focus. 

 

But it might be important. That why one asks for others opinions, as you've done here, to get their thoughts. 

 

I'm not even suggesting that you divulge where she's from, just inquiring why you're avoiding telling the country.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by junglechef

[thetruth revealer]

2 minutes ago, junglechef said:

So what's the secret of your fiancé  nationality? 

 

I and others have just said that it might be revelant, not that it's the focus. 

 

But it then again it might be important. That why one asks for others opinions, as you've done here, to get their thoughts. 

 

I'm not even suggesting that you divulge where she's from, just inquiring why you're avoiding telling the country.

 

 

And as i said , its NOT relevant. Because getting married under THAI LAW doesnt rely on other countries rules , but on THAI LAW only.

Understand ????

From my part, the tread can be closed since i found that the Law article doesnt state the Parents presence personally, i will take further actions .

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Topic closed at OP's request.