Thai Address with US credit cards and bank.

[Aguda]

I have been planning a move to Thailand for a few years and recently read a few posts on Thai Visa recommending to maintain a home country address so as not to have banking problems. I currently bank with Charles Swabb and have  Discover and Capital One credit cards. What is the consensus of you the users? Will I be making a mistake giving the banks my Thai address ? Do I need to utilize a mail forwarder, or will the banks accept my Thai address ?  Thank you in advance for your responses.

[Langsuan Man]

The consensus  is that the best option is to use a relatives US address if that is possible

 

Unfortunately mail forwarders can easily be identified since they  must register with the United States Postal Service.  Using one after  you have established an account is usually never a problem but could would cause problems trying to open a new account later on

 

Using a Thai address once you have opened an account seems to be acceptable but some have reported that when they change address to Thailand their bank and brokerages suddenly put limits on their accounts

 

As usual,  you mileage may vary  

[CaptHaddock]

Do not give your banks your Thai address ever.  If you can help it.  Use a mail forwarder in a no-income-tax state instead of converting your relative into an unpaid mail forwarder.  My basic charge at St. Brendan's Isle is $20/month plus additional charges for specific services.  They are very professional, far better than any of my relatives would be.

 

Open lots of account while you still have a bona fide US residence and change the address to your mail forwarder before you leave so that if any bank questions you you can still prove US residence.

 

If you were to provide a foreign address some banks may not make an issue of it now, but at any point in the future when their policies change you will be unable to take it back.  The brokerages care more than the banks even now.  Just imagine after the next 9/11 type incident and a revised Patriot Act, when further strictures are placed on expats, among others.  Best to keep under the radar as much as possible. 

 

When I say "lots" of accounts I mean way more than you think you will need because you may not be able to open one later.  Get a few checking accounts with billpay features and useful additional services like Popmoney.  Get as many no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee credit cards as you can and make sure that you have charges on every one of them every month so that they don't cancel you for inactivity.

 

I knew all of this before I left and still regret not opening more checking accounts.

[Aguda]

Thank you for your responses, I hadn't realized that using the Thai address would possibly make things difficult. I guess the search is on for a mail forwarder in a tax free state as I don't want to impose on family and friends. I know many would be willing but over time it may become burdensome. My intention was to close all but two of my international  fee-free cards, but I guess I will keep them all open as well as my local credit union. Had never heard of Popmoney, I will have to open an account with them, is there much difference from Paypal as I already use them? I appreciate your taking the time to respond!

[CaptHaddock]

12 minutes ago, Aguda said:

Thank you for your responses, I hadn't realized that using the Thai address would possibly make things difficult. I guess the search is on for a mail forwarder in a tax free state as I don't want to impose on family and friends. I know many would be willing but over time it may become burdensome. My intention was to close all but two of my international  fee-free cards, but I guess I will keep them all open as well as my local credit union. Had never heard of Popmoney, I will have to open an account with them, is there much difference from Paypal as I already use them? I appreciate your taking the time to respond!

Popmoney is direct bank-to-bank transfers.  Paypal may provide similar services, but I don't trust Paypal.  If your bank supports Popmoney you don't need to open an account directly with them, although that is also an option.

 

Open more brokerage accounts, too, Vanguard, for example.

 

My mail forwarder, sbimailservice.com, is located in Florida.  Good price, good service.

 

Do your research now and plan it out.  Once you're over here your options will be limited.

[Aguda]

14 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

Open more brokerage accounts, too, Vanguard, for example.

 

My mail forwarder, sbimailservice.com, is located in Florida.  Good price, good service.

 

Do your research now and plan it out.  Once you're over here your options will be limited

Sound advise, I hadn't considered opening another brokerage account. sbimailservice.com looks promising, but don't know if I want to become a Florida resident. I will check out similar mail forwarders in my state, Georgia. Thanks for your advise CaptHaddock.

[Langsuan Man]

Getting a mail forwarding company has nothing to do with you residence status. You can maintain your Georgia residence by keeping your Driver's license updated and voting by absentee ballot

Where the mail is forwarded means nothing. I have lived in VA, WA, and NJ and my mail forwarding company is in California

Mine costs me $14 monthly and that plan allows 30 outside scans and 5 inside scans per month. The scans are sent via E-mail and I decide which I want opened, or forwarded to me by snail mail

Postscanmail.com

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[CaptHaddock]

19 minutes ago, Aguda said:

Sound advise, I hadn't considered opening another brokerage account. sbimailservice.com looks promising, but don't know if I want to become a Florida resident. I will check out similar mail forwarders in my state, Georgia. Thanks for your advise CaptHaddock.

Setting up a mail forwarding address does not establish residency in that state.  In any case FL has no income tax.  The same cannot be said of Georgia.  It is crucially important for you to look up the tax domicile rules for Georgia and make sure that you are not still liable for state income tax after you have expatted.  If that sounds preposterous to you, then you have a lot of homework to do.

 

There have been lots of threads about what-should-I-do-before-expatting.  You should look them up re: vpns, voip phone service, tax domicile, mail forwarders, Thai banks, etc.

[ballbreaker]

Lived in Thailand since 2003 at which time bank, brokerage and credit cards accounts were given my Thailand address. Since 2003 I have never had US address and never any problems. After a few years I cancelled all but 2 credit cards because they were never used.

Sent from my SM-G750F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Aguda]

23 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

Setting up a mail forwarding address does not establish residency in that state.  In any case FL has no income tax.  The same cannot be said of Georgia.  It is crucially important for you to look up the tax domicile rules for Georgia and make sure that you are not still liable for state income tax after you have expatted.  If that sounds preposterous to you, then you have a lot of homework to do.

 

There have been lots of threads about what-should-I-do-before-expatting.  You should look them up re: vpns, voip phone service, tax domicile, mail forwarders, Thai banks, etc.

I appreciate your warnings, and have done a lot of research and planning. In my case I won't be working so only income is from Social Security and it won't be taxed in Georgia. My Roth IRA deductions will be exempt because of after tax contributions. Only will tap into the 401K for emergencies as it is taxable. Already have the VOIP and VPN covered and will get a  Thai bank account once I arrive and get settled. Charles Schwab Bank is very expat friendly http://international.schwab.com/public/international/us_investing/us_expat_essentials  I haven't heard of anyone with problems with their accounts. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to respond!

[CaptHaddock]

36 minutes ago, Aguda said:

I appreciate your warnings, and have done a lot of research and planning. In my case I won't be working so only income is from Social Security and it won't be taxed in Georgia. My Roth IRA deductions will be exempt because of after tax contributions. Only will tap into the 401K for emergencies as it is taxable. Already have the VOIP and VPN covered and will get a  Thai bank account once I arrive and get settled. Charles Schwab Bank is very expat friendly http://international.schwab.com/public/international/us_investing/us_expat_essentials  I haven't heard of anyone with problems with their accounts. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to respond!

The Schwab account for US residents is better than the one for expats.  I would sign up for that one now while you can still qualify, rather than accept the more limited, expat version.  I expect that you can change your US residential address to your mail forwarder after opening the account, but I do not have a Schwab account myself and am not speaking from experience here.

 

You will be taking Required Minimum Distributions from the 401k at age 70.5, but it looks like Georgia has a partial tax exemption on 401k distributions.  So, Georgia taxes may not be a big issue unless your RMDs are quite large.  If it were me I would still cut all ties to Georgia, because there is no upside to maintaining tax domicile there, except maybe voting.

 

The best Thai bank for US expats is Bangkok Bank, because it alone has an ABA number and can receive ACH transfers from US banks, for which they charge a reasonable fee.  It's even possible to have your SS benefits paid directly to BKK Bank, but most of us feel it is more convenient to receive SS into a US bank and then do an cheap ACH transfer to BKK Bank.

 

If you are in a low tax bracket you can do conversions from the 401k to a Roth IRA up to the top of your bracket and protect yourself not only from future taxes, but also from future RMDs. 

[elgordo38]

Does anyone have a contact email address for Popmoney. I went to their website poorly designed. Are they just a USA entity or world wide. Another thing they do not declare. You can PM if you have an answer. 

[Suradit69]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:33 AM, CaptHaddock said:

Do not give your banks your Thai address ever.  If you can help it.  Use a mail forwarder in a no-income-tax state instead of converting your relative into an unpaid mail forwarder.  My basic charge at St. Brendan's Isle is $20/month plus additional charges for specific services.  They are very professional, far better than any of my relatives would be.

I have used a friend's address for years for bank, credit cards and brokerage account.

 

I can't remember the last time they had to mail me anything. Everything I do with the bank, credit cards or brokerage is done on line, including tax forms and such.

 

I also have Quicken and with a single click, usually every few days, my latest account information is updated. And my bank and brokerage send me emails regarding activity and credit card will contact me by email if there is suspicious activity. Fortunately I have never experience unauthorized use of the cards and by either checking on line or using Quicken you can see what charges and payment have taken place.

 

With the us credit cards I occasionally go online and tell them I'll be "traveling" in Thailand for a few months if I plan to use the cards here, which I seldom do.

 

Really I can't see the need for anyone to forward mail to you except every 3 or 4 years my friends send me my new credit card when the old ones expire.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Suradit69

[DineshR]

Good info here. I myself have been here since 2003 and have maintained US residence in California through my driver's license, but have all my mail forwarded through a mail forwarding service located in NJ. I've used them since 1993 ever since I was an expat. Good advice on opening as many bank accounts and getting good credit cards prior to using the mail forwarding address. And Bangkok Bank is my choice as well.  For credit cards, the best one I've found is Chase - their exchange rates have been the best I've seen for traveling - they give you the closest rate to the market and no foreign transaction fees. But for expenses in Thailand, better use a local card. Good luck !

[Dan5]

I've lived in Thailand for quite a few years using American banks accounts and credit cards. For some of them I use an American address ( a forwarder) and some my Thai address. It doesn't seem to make any difference. 

 

Though I always maintain one with a Thai address. This is because occasionally a bank or financial service wants a proof of address and the statement can be used for it. Otherwise, its kind of difficult since Thai mail is addressed in Thai. I had one bank that wouldn't even accept a certified translation. They require something addressed in English.

 

But you mentioned Charles Shwab. Brokerage accounts can be big problems. Many brokerage firms don't want to be bothered with the extra work in complying with US regulations for off shore accounts and they will just suspend or cancel your account if they discover you don't live in the USA.

[CaptHaddock]

6 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Does anyone have a contact email address for Popmoney. I went to their website poorly designed. Are they just a USA entity or world wide. Another thing they do not declare. You can PM if you have an answer. 

I have received email from [email protected], but I don't know if they will respond to email directed there.  Their website is a little clunky.  I am pretty sure it is US only.  Popmoney has several advantages.  Money transferred goes directly into the bank account of the recipient.  There is no actual account at Popmoney that holds money, unlike Paypal.  That also means that the ACH transfer is one hop of only three days.  In addition, you can set up recurring automatic transfers if you wish.

 

Many banks, such as Citibank, support Popmoney transfers through their own websites.  Others like USAA only support initiating transfers through their mobile app.  This means that if there is a problem with a transfer you deal with your bank in resolving it, not Popmoney, just as you would with a SWIFT transfer.

 

You can open an account directly on Popmoney's website.  I believe this is true even if your bank does not offer Popmoney services since it just uses ACH which all US banks support. 

[elgordo38]

5 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

I have received email from [email protected], but I don't know if they will respond to email directed there.  Their website is a little clunky.  I am pretty sure it is US only.  Popmoney has several advantages.  Money transferred goes directly into the bank account of the recipient.  There is no actual account at Popmoney that holds money, unlike Paypal.  That also means that the ACH transfer is one hop of only three days.  In addition, you can set up recurring automatic transfers if you wish.

 

Many banks, such as Citibank, support Popmoney transfers through their own websites.  Others like USAA only support initiating transfers through their mobile app.  This means that if there is a problem with a transfer you deal with your bank in resolving it, not Popmoney, just as you would with a SWIFT transfer.

 

You can open an account directly on Popmoney's website.  I believe this is true even if your bank does not offer Popmoney services since it just uses ACH which all US banks support. 

Thanks a bunch

[CaptHaddock]

4 hours ago, DineshR said:

Good info here. I myself have been here since 2003 and have maintained US residence in California through my driver's license, but have all my mail forwarded through a mail forwarding service located in NJ. I've used them since 1993 ever since I was an expat. Good advice on opening as many bank accounts and getting good credit cards prior to using the mail forwarding address. And Bangkok Bank is my choice as well.  For credit cards, the best one I've found is Chase - their exchange rates have been the best I've seen for traveling - they give you the closest rate to the market and no foreign transaction fees. But for expenses in Thailand, better use a local card. Good luck !

I do not have a Thai credit card and pay all local expenses in THB with one of our US credit cards.  There is no advantage to having a Thai credit card and the very significant disadvantage that you are liable for all charges made on your Thai credit card including fraudulent ones if the Thai bank decides to hold you accountable for them.  As you know, US card holders have statutory protection against fraudulent charges.

 

I have had fraudulent charges twice in the past on my Amex card, on one occasion it was $10,000.  No way am I assuming liability of that scale for something beyond my control.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Captain above gave very good advice in his various posts, and I concur.

 

The best course for Americans is to keep their U.S. accounts registered with a U.S. address, and never bring any foreign address into the picture. Going foreign may work OK for some time with some existing accounts, but in the end, it's likely to come back and bite you in the a* in one way or another.

 

And when it comes to opening new accounts, a lot of institutions won't even want to talk with you if you're trying to use a foreign address.

 

I've been using a mail forwarding service in no income tax state for many years as my U.S. address, and never had any problem/issue with any financial entity rejecting such an address. Most of the time, in terms of financial stuff, the main and kind of important things that need to get forwarded are the new cards that have to be issued every few years. And you really don't want to be losing those renewals or have your aunt forget where she put the envelope.

 

As for residency and state income tax liability, each state has its own often different rules. And all I can say is, you're better off to have no official ties (voter reg., DL, etc.) with any state that has a state income tax, unless you're very clear that having such ties isn't an opening to have their taxing entity declare you a "resident."

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, in terms of the details the OP stated in his original post, in my experience, Capital One is one of the most fussy financial institutions when it comes to foreign addresses, and refusing to open or threatening to close such accounts.

 

And for brokerages, if your account gets classed as having a foreign address, to the best of my knowledge, that results in the brokerage typically limiting the kinds of investments (specifically, U.S. mutual funds) that you can purchase within the account in order to avoid violating a particular U.S. securities law.

 

And for Schwab, as noted above, if someone is going to be opening a new account with them, you really want it to be opened as a domestic U.S. account and not a foreign account (Schwab does have a division that specifically handles accounts based outside the U.S.).   One reason is, the U.S. Schwab brokerage accounts basically have no required opening balance, whereas to open a foreign account with them, it's typically a minimum $10,000 to open. I believe there are some other differences as well between their U.S. and foreign status accounts.

 

 

[ByblosYuNaiSoi]

What I did - it worked fine for me for 3 years. 

 

- I used my sister's US address, but did ALL BUSINESS ONLINE, completely paperless, so she never had to forward a thing.

- I told my US credit union and Capital One credit card that I was going to spend some time in Thailand, but never gave them an address in Thailand. For our purposes, I was resident in the USA.

- I paid all bills possible with the credit union bill pay service, including the Capital One credit card.

- I opened a Bangkok Bank current account, so I could withdraw cash without the fees I incurred from my credit union. Bangkok Bank has a New York branch, so I could fund my account at no charge via ACH transfers in the USA.

- I kept a savings account at Discover Bank, with which I funded my credit union and Bangkok Bank accounts.

 

CAVEAT Bangkok Bank: I could transfer TO my Thai account easily, but I was not allowed to transfer money OUT of Thailand from my BKK Bank account. Thus, I was forced to clean that account out with my ATM card, incurring fees. *sigh*

[Si Thea01]

I've had absolutely no problem with my bank accounts but then I'm from the land down under, it might be a lot different to the good old US of A.  They have my Thai address, as does the Australian Government, for tax purposes, and my new cards and all correspondence reach me without problem.

 

The only difficulty I experienced was when I wanted to down grade one of my credit cards, the new one had to be posted to an Australian address but this was overcome by sending it to a friend, who then forwarded it to me by registered mail.   I also do all my transactions via internet banking directly to my Thai bank, whilst all my statements are forwarded via the internet. All Sabai, sabai.

[Aguda]

Thank you everyone for all the great information in your responses. I thought I had all arrangements in place so need to get busy in arranging a mail forwarder and tax free residency. I want my relocation to go as smoothly as possible so plan to get everything in place  soon. Thanks again !

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, ByblosYuNaiSoi said:

What I did - it worked fine for me for 3 years. 

 

- I used my sister's US address, but did ALL BUSINESS ONLINE, completely paperless, so she never had to forward a thing.

- I told my US credit union and Capital One credit card that I was going to spend some time in Thailand, but never gave them an address in Thailand. For our purposes, I was resident in the USA.

- I paid all bills possible with the credit union bill pay service, including the Capital One credit card.

- I opened a Bangkok Bank current account, so I could withdraw cash without the fees I incurred from my credit union. Bangkok Bank has a New York branch, so I could fund my account at no charge via ACH transfers in the USA.

- I kept a savings account at Discover Bank, with which I funded my credit union and Bangkok Bank accounts.

 

CAVEAT Bangkok Bank: I could transfer TO my Thai account easily, but I was not allowed to transfer money OUT of Thailand from my BKK Bank account. Thus, I was forced to clean that account out with my ATM card, incurring fees. *sigh*

 

And how did you handle it when the time came for your banks to issue new debit or credit cards by mail because the existing ones had reached their expiration dates? Or you never got that far in your 3 years?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, Si Thea01 said:

I've had absolutely no problem with my bank accounts but then I'm from the land down under, it might be a lot different to the good old US of A.  They have my Thai address, as does the Australian Government, for tax purposes, and my new cards and all correspondence reach me without problem.

 

Australian banking and U.S. banking. Not the same banks. Not the same rules or policies.

[Si Thea01]

36 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Australian banking and U.S. banking. Not the same banks. Not the same rules or policies.

Just a comparison between the two, that's why I said it might well be different between the there and Oz. 

[sikishrory]

In australia holding an account with a foriegn address opens you up to "foriegn resident withholding tax" which the bank itself deducts for the ATO. It may be a minimal amount depending what exactly you are doing with the account. 

Not America but perhaps something to check on as there are some similarities with US and Aus tax systems.