Appeals Court upholds death penalty for Koh Tao murders

[Khun Han]

41 minutes ago, bannork said:

I don't think the PM ever said that. It was a policeman .

I remember many of  those who were convinced the headman's relatives were involved boldly stating the raping and killings of tourists would continue on the island as the mafia there thought they were untouchable. Seems they were wrong on that account.

 

There have been several rather bizarre deaths connected to Koh Tao since the murders of David and Hannah.

[Thingamabob]

Terrible, but entirely as expected. 

[Khun Han]

35 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

It was stated that the DNA found on an LM cigarette butt that the Burmese had smoked 30 - 50 metres away matched the semen inside Hannah

 

Where is this semen that was allegedly found inside Hannah?

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

And you believe every word coming from a  "police source". So if you do, what is wrong with the statements coming from the initial police investigate who was conveniently replaced when he kicked off the investigation - or doesn't that suit you as being worthwhile as it was probably true. 

I don't say anything!  I am just wanting to find out.  But yes it does strike me as odd that whenever someone asks reasonable questions and seeks to be establish facts, there is a wave of accusation that they are being naive or worse.

 

The simple truth, again, is that you, me, and everyone else on this board is not in a position to know the facts.  Thus, we can only really rely on what the judge thinks.  So, yes, it does really depend on whether you regard the police and judiciary having a malign agenda in this case.

 

You may be right.  I don't know.  But so far what has been presented is little more than hope, gut feeling, sentiment, and personal prejudice against authorities, and people want to cherry pick stories from the media according to their viewpoint.

 

It's a sorry state of affairs. I can say almost for certain this would have been kicked out of court in UK, regardless.  But rather unfortunately for the Burmese 2, this is Thai jurisdiction. A great many posters don't seem to understand that. 

 

I can only repeat my hunch is that all the attackers are not behind bars, but the two that are not as innocent as most would like them to be.  But I do not express this as fact, or bully others for not believing what I want them to believe.

 

I hope, I wish, that they are innocent.  Not a legal defence unfortunately.

[bannork]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

There have been several rather bizarre deaths connected to Koh Tao since the murders of David and Hannah.

Nothing resembling the deaths of Hannah and David. Most involved abuse of drugs or drink.

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, bannork said:

Nothing resembling the deaths of Hannah and David. Most involved abuse of drugs or drink.

 

Yes, it's hard to imagine the likes of Luke Miller causing a certain island hiso to lose face and go into a murderous rage by rebuffing his amorous advances, isn't it? On the other hand, it's easy to imagine such types talking about the case and saying the wrong thing to the wrong person, and then...........but I'm speculating of course.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Khun Han

[sanemax]

44 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Myanmar-workers-DNA-matches-semen-found-Koh/36077

 

 

That is what the Police claimed , although they didnt allow any independent testing to be done and they didnt provide any evidence or show the percentage possibility of it being a match to the Burmese . The Thai Police initially said that the DNA probably wasnt Thai , but Burmese . Although its scientifically impossible to ascertain whether the DNA with either Thai or Burmese . The RTP then said it was a 100 % match to the Burmese , although scientifically, its not posible to have a 100 % DNA match . I wish you would read previous posts in this thread

"A one page report with a table of DNA results, with no guidance to interpretation, no assumptions or limitations, no chain of custody, no conclusions, handwritten alterations, no discernible standard to what the report adheres, is not a suitable document to provide to a court.”  

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by sanemax

[mommysboy]

I also have the rather uncomfortable feeling that the rather blind protestations on this board  and others have worsened their situation.  Everyone knows Thais do not like to be outed, and that the result is exactly what would have been predicted: a deep entrenchment and reluctance to handle the matter in any way that does not prove their rightness. 

 

You may have unwittingly made matters worse for them.

 

I don't think it is so pervasive, because UK officials were able to oversee the evidence to some extent. 

[Artisi]

Regarding the 2 brutal deaths of the English backpackers on Koh Tao, I would think that any information related to this incidence coming from the island after the "fix" was enacted must be treated as exactly what it is - BS of the first order. 

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I don't say anything!  I am just wanting to find out.  But yes it does strike me as odd that whenever someone asks reasonable questions and seeks to be establish facts, there is a wave of accusation that they are being naive or worse.

 

The simple truth, again, is that you, me, and everyone else on this board is not in a position to know the facts.  Thus, we can only really rely on what the judge thinks.  So, yes, it does really depend on whether you regard the police and judiciary having a malign agenda in this case.

 

You may be right.  I don't know.  But so far what has been presented is little more than hope, gut feeling, sentiment, and personal prejudice against authorities, and people want to cherry pick stories from the media according to their viewpoint.

 

It's a sorry state of affairs. I can say almost for certain this would have been kicked out of court in UK, regardless.  But rather unfortunately for the Burmese 2, this is Thai jurisdiction. A great many posters don't seem to understand that. 

 

I can only repeat my hunch is that all the attackers are not behind bars, but the two that are not as innocent as most would like them to be.  But I do not express this as fact, or bully others for not believing what I want them to believe.

 

I hope, I wish, that they are innocent.  Not a legal defence unfortunately.

 

There is no dna evidence linking the two convicted to the crime, only police hearsay that there is.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

I also have the rather uncomfortable feeling that the rather blind protestations on this board  and others have worsened their situation.  Everyone knows Thais do not like to be outed, and that the result is exactly what would have been predicted: a deep entrenchment and reluctance to handle the matter in any way that does not prove their rightness. 

 

You may have unwittingly made matters worse for them.

 

I don't think it is so pervasive, because UK officials were able to oversee the evidence to some extent. 

 

UK officials were not allowed to oversee any evidence.

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

There is no dna evidence linking the two convicted to the crime, only police hearsay that there is.

That's interesting.  What was the dna evidence presented to the court that ultimately sealed their fate?  Either it was sound or it wasn't.

 

By that I mean:

1. It has to be 100% attributable to them.

2. It cannot be incidental.

3. Obviously, it cannot be introduced after the fact.

Edited March 2, 2017 by mommysboy

[joecoolfrog]

22 hours ago, greenchair said:

Yahoo. Guilty as sin. 

Justice was served for hannah who was left lying on the beach with her brain smashed to bits and violated in the worst possible way. 

I hope people give a thought for her whilst dishing out sympathy for those 2 sods. 

Well done thai police. 

Neither you or indeed any of us know if they are guilty or not. What we do know is that the investigation was a complete shambles , consequently the verdict is hugely questionable.

[Khun Han]

Just now, mommysboy said:

That's interesting.  What was the dna evidence presented to the court that ultimately sealed their fate?  Either it was sound or it wasn't.

 

"A one page report with a table of DNA results, with no guidance to interpretation, no assumptions or limitations, no chain of custody, no conclusions, handwritten alterations, no discernible standard to what the report adheres, is not a suitable document to provide to a court.” 

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

"A one page report with a table of DNA results, with no guidance to interpretation, no assumptions or limitations, no chain of custody, no conclusions, handwritten alterations, no discernible standard to what the report adheres, is not a suitable document to provide to a court.” 

Ok. 

 

What are your credentials to analyse forensic information?  Didn't the defence do its job?

 

Since the conviction was based solely on dna evidence, wasnt any rationale provided by an expert that enabled the judge to make a decision?

[NeoDinosaw]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I have been through all the comments here, more than once and it seems that for some, reality is something that only other people grasp.

The majority of people do not believe that the two Burmese are guilty.

The majority of people understand that if the match is not 99.99%, the person the DNA came from has to be from someone else.

The majority of people understand that the same results in a UK court would have been sufficient for exoneration. Not 99.99%, not you.

Sadly a couple of posters cannot understand that a partial match is worth absolutely nothing, and will deny the truth till their dying breath.

I am wondering if those people are in the same nursing home, bereft of a nurse to wipe away the seemingly constant flow of dribble away from their mouths.

I would need 100% match in the DNA to claim they were from the same person

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

I would need 100% match in the DNA to claim they were from the same person

That wouldnt be possible, as it only goes up to 99.999999%

Theres always a possibility that someone could have the same DNA as you .

Thats why Courts give a percentage possibility of the DNA being yours , something that the Thai courts didnt go .

[nuakmuaynina]

This whole thing stinks.

 

Shame on Thailand.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Neither you or indeed any of us know if they are guilty or not. What we do know is that the investigation was a complete shambles , consequently the verdict is hugely questionable.

If the evidence was on trial it would be found guilty. 

[DiscoDan]

It's easy to spot the trolls on here they are the ones who have nothing to back up their statements, some are so desperate they even claim.there is no dna match even though the defense has never claimed this.

 

She also did not supply the full documentation of the results she gathered in her forensic testing, citing a policy that bars scientists from providing investigative officers with detailed graphs of a person’s genetic makeup.  -http://www.thephuketnews.com/more-forensic-evidence-available-for-re-test-witness-reveals-53331.php#sthash.Kb9y9fSP.dpuf

[balo]

They will not get the death penalty in Thailand , it will be changed to life in prison for sure. 

 

Regarding if they are guilty or not , I have already made my opinion clear.   Both the B2 and other people that were at the scene that night could have done it.  We have no clear evidence suggesting they didn't do it .  We only have partial DNA evidence and that was not good enough was it ? 

No new evidence have surfaced. If you belive the real killers are still at the island or somewhere else please continue to believe that but you can not be sure B2 are innocent.

 

. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Ok. 

 

What are your credentials to analyse forensic information?  Didn't the defence do its job?

 

Since the conviction was based solely on dna evidence, wasnt any rationale provided by an expert that enabled the judge to make a decision?

That quote was by Thailands leading DNA specialist, you would have know n that if you had read the whole thread.

   The defence asked for it to be interdependently verified, which was refused by the Judge.

   The defence asked for a sample of the DNA , but the RTP clammed that there was none available . All used up !!!!!!

   The Judge is either incompetent or he wanted a guilty verdict

[davidstipek]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:35 AM, Marvo said:

That's a real nugget of a story there FXE!

Was   Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen the guy who was swiftly taken off the case?

Yes! and never explained fully why he was....!!!

 

Quoting:http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

 

""The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

He also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

Instead the police will eliminate all these mafias, he said.

Meanwhile a police source said  the police are also looking into the cooperation of those who helped to arrange the suspect to escape. They also will be arrested.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jai Dee
duplicate information removed

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, khunken said:

No I just posted my opinion. You wanted questions answered - get off your lazy arse & go and do some research that is if you really want to learn rather than troll.

Opinion, sentiment, hope, belief- everyone wants them to be innocent, including me.  But all you provide is one set of arguments, rather than the overall picture, and not a lot of fact at that.  of course the defence rubbishes prosecution evidence: that is their job!!

 

And when someone touches the surface, you react like a kid bandying around insults.

 

 

 

[DiscoDan]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That quote was by Thailands leading DNA specialist, you would have know n that if you had read the whole thread.

   The defence asked for it to be interdependently verified, which was refused by the Judge.

   The defence asked for a sample of the DNA , but the RTP clammed that there was none available . All used up !!!!!!

   The Judge is either incompetent or he wanted a guilty verdict

 

You are telling lies the judge never said that, it was the defense who declined to retest the DNA.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/12/25/1451042373/

 

"However the defense team eventually abandoned the idea of a retest, saying they were unsure whether the dna remnants would still make for an accurate retest "

 

You might want to get your dictionary out and see what the definition of remnants is. 

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Opinion, sentiment, hope, belief- everyone wants them to be innocent, including me.  But all you provide is one set of arguments, rather than the overall picture, and not a lot of fact at that.  of course the defence rubbishes prosecution evidence: that is their job!!

 

And when someone touches the surface, you react like a kid bandying around insults.

 

 

 

 

A bit like yourself when you made the snarky remark about my credentials when you failed to spot that I was quoting from Thailand's leading forensics expert.

[khunken]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Opinion, sentiment, hope, belief- everyone wants them to be innocent, including me.  But all you provide is one set of arguments, rather than the overall picture, and not a lot of fact at that.  of course the defence rubbishes prosecution evidence: that is their job!!

 

And when someone touches the surface, you react like a kid bandying around insults.

 

 

 

Are you stalking me? I never claimed to post any overall picture - that's in your tiny mind. Insults? No - I've very patient with you and certainly could have posted real insults which are frowned upon by the mods.

Go and stalk someone else sonnyboy as I've better things to do than deal with a troll.

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

 

You are telling lies the judge never said that, it was the defense who declined to retest the DNA.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/12/25/1451042373/

 

"However the defense team eventually abandoned the idea of a retest, saying they were unsure whether the dna remnants would still make for an accurate retest "

 

You might want to get your dictionary out and see what the definition of remnants is. 

 

Remnants in this instance referring to the 'amplified' dna that was offered by the police for re-testing. But you knew that anyway, and just saw yet another opportunity to misrepresent.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

You are telling lies the judge never said that, it was the defense who declined to retest the DNA.

The prosecution has argued that DNA evidence is central to its case, but the Thai court turned down requests from defence lawyers for the evidence to be independently tested

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thai-beach-killings-forensic-expert-claims-dna-found-on-alleged-murder-weapon-of-two-britons-in-koh-10496068.html

 

  Would you care to opologise for calling me a liar ?

 

[DiscoDan]

15 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The prosecution has argued that DNA evidence is central to its case, but the Thai court turned down requests from defence lawyers for the evidence to be independently tested

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thai-beach-killings-forensic-expert-claims-dna-found-on-alleged-murder-weapon-of-two-britons-in-koh-10496068.html

 

  Would you care to opologise for calling me a liar ?

 

If they were not allowed to independently retest the dna evidence then how did they test the hoe ?

 

No opology needed 

 

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/defence_team_reverse_demands_to_retest_dna_found_on_body_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4204183