Visa Difficult? So Now Farangs Feel What Asians Feel!

[junkofdavid2]

Hi!

I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

[jumnien]

Brilliant observation and I couldn't agree with you more.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Hi!

I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

I don't think it is easy to stay in LOS long term. There is a pile of paperwork that would put the average phone book to shame. It takes forever to do. I have to go and sign my name in a book every 90 days - for a reason that is still not apparent to me. And I can only stay a year at a time. It is very difficult to get residency and I doubt I could ever get a Thai passport. The residency and citizenship are also very expensive.

UK residency doesn't even require an interview - just fill in a form, enclose a couple of documents, send a cheque for a modest amount and that's it.

Oh, don't forget that they have access to the welfare state, free healthcare, social security and will be seen as equal citizens.

Not happy about the situation in LOS, then leave? That's just what I'm doing. Next country I work abroad in will be one that offers immigrants the same benefits as immigrants in my country.

[Roger Dodger]

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

[junkofdavid2]

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

180,000 sounds like a lot. Even more if you count the Filipinos (probably much more than the thais). However, it's small compared to the number who are denied outright in the US embassy, without any questions or explanations....

[jumnien]

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

My guess is that Thailand is willing to accept about 98% of Americans while the USA would accept about 5-7% of Thais.

[Roger Dodger]

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

My guess is that Thailand is willing to accept about 98% of Americans while the USA would accept about 5-7% of Thais.

My bad.. that is 120,000+ (THAIS, not Asians) in the state of California alone. But keep in mind that they are RESIDING. Many have become citizens. Many without marrying an American citizen.

Edited December 16, 2006 by Roger Dodger

[sbk]

Accepted as tourists.

Long term stay of spouses is much more difficult in Thailand than in the US. Obtaining green cards for the spouse of a US citizen is much easier than obtaining a visa and work permit for the spouse of a Thai. Obtaining citizenship is much easier for the spouse of a US citizen than for the spouse of a Thai.

[junkofdavid2]

Accepted as tourists.

Long term stay of spouses is much more difficult in Thailand than in the US. Obtaining green cards for the spouse of a US citizen is much easier than obtaining a visa and work permit for the spouse of a Thai. Obtaining citizenship is much easier for the spouse of a US citizen than for the spouse of a Thai.

I agree. I am talking about "tourists".

Yes, a lot of these "tourists" are not really tourists, and end up working... just like many farang "tourists" here.

Cheers,

David

[bmanly]

Accepted as tourists.

Long term stay of spouses is much more difficult in Thailand than in the US. Obtaining green cards for the spouse of a US citizen is much easier than obtaining a visa and work permit for the spouse of a Thai. Obtaining citizenship is much easier for the spouse of a US citizen than for the spouse of a Thai.

Agreed, I can walk into my nearest Thai Consulate and get a tourist visa for $45 over the counter pronto no questions asked. A Thai person wanting the same visa to come to OZ would find it much more difficult if not outright rejection. But then again my Thai wife of 17 years is an Australian citizen, carries an Australian passport and can buy all the land she wants, something that I will never be allowed to do in Thailand, I think her position is better than mine.

Edited December 16, 2006 by bmanly

[jeebusjones]

1. With over 11,000,000 international tourists a year, the Thai economy is dependent on foreign money. Without the billions of dollars a year coming from Western travelers, where would Thailand be? Not far above Laos or Cambodia is my guess. Asian tourists present peanuts to Western economies.

2. The average Western traveler is far wealthier than the average Thai, so there is little danger of the Westerner staying and stealing jobs from Thais, lowering wages etc... (Anyone want to work at Tesco for 6k baht a month?) The average Asian visiting a Western country, while doubtless wealthy by their own country's standards, still is not wealthier than the average Westerner. I'm not trying to offend anyone but it's a simple fact that everything is about money.

3. I am American so I will speak for the US. While it may be difficult to gain initial entry into the US, a person with a spouse or a company sponsor will find staying there in the long term to be relatively easy. One can even become a citizen after five years, giving them equal status to every other American. It is notoriously difficult to stay in Thailand for the long term and virtually impossible to become a citizen.

I find comparisons of Thailand's immigration policy to Western countries to be quite amusing. Thailand is dependent on tourist money, so they need to have a very open policy regarding short term visitors. They have seemingly done everything they can to prevent Westerners from staying here in the long term. The message is clear: Give us your money and get out!

Western countries are not dependent on tourist money. As such, they don't need to have an open policy regarding short term visitors. But I think you'll find that most Western countries are much more open to accepting foreigners for the long term, offering citizenship and other benefits that would be unheard of in Thailand.

Thailand is free to decide its own immigration policies. No one is arguing with this point. But don't try to justify Thailand's rules by comparing them to Western countries, because clearly there is absolutely no comparison to be made.

Edited December 16, 2006 by jeebusjones

[CRUNCHER]

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

I am sure your figures are correct, but what is the significance?

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

The OP is obviously a bit intense, but he has a good point(s)

[ovenman]

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

I still don't think this is a like-like comparison. More relevant might be the US citizen who wants to stay long-term in Mexico. This person can enter and stay in Mexico for a period of six months. At that point, this person can border hop into the US and back to Mexico for another six months period. Repeat this process as long as desired.

People pontificate as though the continuous thirty-day Thai border hopping de facto policy of the past was something unique and unheard of elsewhere. It's assuredly neither.

[soihok]

You can keep your Los Angeles.

Pile of poo

[aussiestyle1983]

It may be hard for Asians to get visas to countries in "Farangland" but once they have a migration visa of sorts, its alot easier for them to obtain PR and Citizenship than it us for us farangs to obtain Thai PR and citizenship. Our countries have fair laws and rules that make a clear path for people wishing to obtain PR and citizenship in the future if they chose that option but in Thailand it is alot harder to obtain PR and nearly impossible to obtain citizenship, which makes many people who have been here legally for many years feel uncertain about their futures here.

I have a 1 year visa to remain in Thailand and my wife has a migration visa to Australia so these new rules do not affect me nor will they affect our lives as we can up and go to "Farangland" whenever we want so dont think I am having a rant because I can not obtain a Thai visa.

[otherstuff1957]

Actually, a lot of us are aware of how difficult it is for a Thai to get a visa. I had to get a US tourist visa for my wife a couple of years ago and had to submit a small mountain of paperwork!

[junkofdavid2]

Actually, a lot of us are aware of how difficult it is for a Thai to get a visa. I had to get a US tourist visa for my wife a couple of years ago and had to submit a small mountain of paperwork!

Good for her. Likewise, there are "some" farangs who will be able to get a visa with a "small mountain of paperwork". Also likewise, many farangs will be denied, the same way many "legitimate" Asian tourists are denied by the US too.

[chuchok]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

[Roger Dodger]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

[junkofdavid2]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I agree with you. Following your logic, it would also be a "very good reason" for Thailand to make it hard for farangs to get visas, since just like many Asian tourists in America, many farangs find work illegally using the VOA with border runs.

I totally understand the "undesirable Asians" problem you have there, and I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name... the same as decent farangs who get embarrassed when they see their fellow countrymen acting undesirable too.

[Roger Dodger]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name...

Sorry David, you were saying how "###### hard" it is to get a visa....?

btw, only YOU can give you a bad name. Be careful not to do that buddy.

[chuchok]

There is a very good reason why Thai people sometimes find it hard to get overseas visas.They tend to overstay a lot more than most nations.

While immigration can be very tough,they do have their reasons.

That's right. David, If you could get a visa to a first world country, you'd see that we got our undesirables over there too.

I agree with you. Following your logic, it would also be a "very good reason" for Thailand to make it hard for farangs to get visas, since just like many Asian tourists in America, many farangs find work illegally using the VOA with border runs.

I totally understand the "undesirable Asians" problem you have there, and I am admittedly embarassed when I travel to the US (or even just Singapore!) where I see my fellow countrymen (i'm not Singaporean) acting uncivilized and giving me a bad name... the same as decent farangs who get embarrassed when they see their fellow countrymen acting undesirable too.

ya know,i reakon I would get embarrassed if I had to talk to you for more than say...2 seconds.

[Vespa]

Hi!

I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

The real joke is when you put Fox News on and they show Mexicans streaming over the borders of Texas and Arizona then popping out babies for free in US hospitals and claiming US citizenship for them and requesting the "right" to stay with their American Citizen child.

It has been a broken system for years.

The US Embassy is reaping in plenty of $ every day on these visa applications they so readily deny.

[LaoPo]

The OP has good points, very good!

Most of you are talking about the USA versus Thailand but I didn't see a post yet about 'Fortress Europe'....

It's extremely difficult for any Asian to get a tourist visa, even business Visa are hard to get. Some EU countries are more easy than others but in most cases it's extremely frustrating to get a Visa.

What visa for a -love-partner is concerned........it's a NIGHTMARE I tell you !

Basically it's more easy for any Westerner to get (if necessary at all) a visa for Thailand than for a Thai to get a visa for any Western country.

And: the latter counts for most Asian people with the exception of Japanese and South Koreans

LaoPo

[Roger Dodger]

The OP has good points, very good!

Most of you are talking about the USA versus Thailand but I didn't see a post yet about 'Fortress Europe'....

It's extremely difficult for any Asian to get a tourist visa, even business Visa are hard to get. Some EU countries are more easy than others but in most cases it's extremely frustrating to get a Visa.

What visa for a -love-partner is concerned........it's a NIGHTMARE I tell you !

Basically it's more easy for any Westerner to get (if necessary at all) a visa for Thailand than for a Thai to get a visa for any Western country.

And: the latter counts for most Asian people with the exception of Japanese and South Koreans

LaoPo

LaoPo, my friend, can you think of any reasons why this here might be so?

[The Dan Sai Kid]

JOD2, out of interest - what asian country are you from?

[soihok]

Hi!

I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

The real joke is when you put Fox News on and they show Mexicans streaming over the borders of Texas and Arizona then popping out babies for free in US hospitals and claiming US citizenship for them and requesting the "right" to stay with their American Citizen child.

It has been a broken system for years.

The US Embassy is reaping in plenty of $ every day on these visa applications they so readily deny.

Ah Mr Vespa the "ham shank",,,we,d wondered where you came from and now we know.

Does this post take on any secret critism of women from Issan?

You started it

Edited December 16, 2006 by soihok

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Hi!

I'm not here to say that this is some sort of "good revenge" on western people, as many of these farangs in this forum had nothing to do with their own country's visa rules applied towards Asians.

However, this is interesting:

Case: Farang complains that while he has lived here for years, he is "not" illegally working here, so Thai government ppl are imbacils by making it hard for ALL farangs to get visas.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

Even with our "complete documents" and proof that we are only going to visit your countries, your embassies deny us outright. We just take it with a grain of salt, accept that it's "your" country's "right and prerogative", and accept and admit that many of our fellow Asians decide to overstay in your countries to find illegal work, ... and so we just accept the USA visa denial.

Despite this, I've never heard of Farangs complaining that legitimate Asian tourists have a hard time getting visas in the West.

Well, wake up, smell the coffee! It's the same thing here in Thailand. So many farangs working illegally, and so Thai government makes it hard for "all" farangs, including "legitimate" ones.

The "legitimate" farangs complain that the "hard" rules shouldn't be applied to them, and that it should only be applied to the "non-legitimate" farangs.

These "legitimate" want the Thai government to go through the "painstaking trouble" of "carefully" studying each and every case of each and every farang and to make sure that it's applied to only the "bad" ones.

Well I agree with them.

However, following that logic, shouldn't Western governments such as yours also extend the same courtesy, and also go through the "painstaking trouble" of carefully studying each and every case of each and every Asian tourist, and make sure that only the "bad" ones are singled out???

Instead of also (just like the current Thai government) giving a difficult set of "blanket" rules for all Southeast Asians ??? (except Singapore passport)

I'm not saying that the current difficult set of rules is correct, nor am I saying that Farangs "deserve" this revenge (As I said earlier, it's your government who is doing this to Asians, not necessarily you directly).

I'm just showing the big picture, and that this is a mirror of what your Asian friends go through when applying for visas in your "first world" countries.

Point to ponder.

The real joke is when you put Fox News on and they show Mexicans streaming over the borders of Texas and Arizona then popping out babies for free in US hospitals and claiming US citizenship for them and requesting the "right" to stay with their American Citizen child.

It has been a broken system for years.

The US Embassy is reaping in plenty of $ every day on these visa applications they so readily deny.

Ah Mr Vespa the "ham shank",,,we,d wondered where you came from and now we know.

Does this post take on any secret critism of women from Issan?

You started it

Keep that argument there please.

[soihok]

[The Dan Sai Kid]