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Torrent Probs after True Upgrade


KyopoBKK

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After plenty of tweaking my VPN, router and BitTorrent client, the final and working solution was encrypting outgoing connections through uTorrent itself.
Changing my IP, DNS and/or ports didn't cut it, as TRUE is most likely traffic shaping from the source. Luckily, uTorrent let's you set up an encryption that has finally done it.

Here's how:
" 4. Enabling Protocol Encryption

Some ISPs (Internet Service Providers) actively interfere with P2P activities in order to reduce their bandwidth requirements. This causes uTorrent and other file sharing download speeds to become slow. To avoid this, BitTorrent has introduced an encryption protocol to prevent ISPs from identifying BitTorrent traffic.
Go to Options > Preferences > BitTorrent (or uTorrent). Set Outgoing under Protocol Encryption to Enable, check "Allow incoming legacy connections".
Some ISPs have extremely aggressive throttling methods and for those users it might be necessary to set outgoing to Forced; however this will greatly reduce the number of peers you can connect to. Enabled is sufficient for most users."

As for now, problem solved!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm bumping this to ask if anyone else has had the same problem. I'm on True ADSL 13MB/1MB in BKK and they recently offered a free new upgrade to 30MB/5MB VDSL.

 

Our building does not have VDSL yet, but they came round to give me a new ADSL/VDSL compatible router  (a Humax HV100-02--a model so obscure , when you search on it you get only about 50 Google entries).

 

On the old Zyxel router I could get torrent downloads for popular torrents at about the max theoretical speed for 13 MBps ( that is about 1.6 mbits/sec)

 

ON the new Humax I can get the theoretical speed of around 30MB, and download, for example you tube videos using a downloader add on at about the theoretical max speed for 30MB, that is about 3.75 Mbits/sec.

 

But torrents won't download anymore: I'm getting 11kilobits per sec on popular torrents now.  What's more, starting the torrent program seems to lock up the router, slowing it to the point where loading single web pages takes minutes, or times out. This doesn't stop if I exit the torrent app. Only if I restart router does it come back to normal speed.

 

I was using Vuze, which I know is bloated, but worked fine to the point the router was changed. However if I change to a memory light torrent client like Transmission or qBittorrent (I'm on a Mac) with the new router  the same thing happens- when I start a torrent client there are no real downloads  ( 9-11 kbits/s)and everything slows to the point where web access is effectively gone, and this persists after the torrent client is shut down

 

I tried putting the old router back, but using this now only gives  me 3MB speeds. I noticed on the new router my internet log in name has been changed, and so I presume has the password but I can't see it, so I assume the new speeds are somehow associated with the new login information. 

 

Does anyone have any idea how changing a router in a single day can compromise both torrent downloads and internet access whenever the torrent client is turned on?

 

I don't believe it's traffic shaping as it started on the day of the router change, and I have been downloading torrents for years.

 

Ant ideas???

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12 hours ago, partington said:

But torrents won't download anymore: I'm getting 11kilobits per sec on popular torrents now.  

Does this happen 24/7? I found that since True upgraded us from ADSL to DOCSIS we cannot use torrents in afternoons/evenings. Other times they work fine.

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Since I started this topic, here's what eventually solved my problem - most of the time anyway.
Using a VPN that allows "Protocol Encryption", e.g. ExpressVPN, is a given when torrenting.
Rotate your server location regularly, and find out which one is the fastest at any given time.
(Singapore, Hong Kong and Malaysia if you are located in LOS)
On top of that, throttling your dl speed to a level that is acceptable for TRUE Online. In my case, that was 1.6mbps.
You can see a speed graph in your torrent client and adjust levels accordingly.
In the end, this was the only scenario that worked for me.

 

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4 hours ago, KyopoBKK said:

Since I started this topic, here's what eventually solved my problem - most of the time anyway.
Using a VPN that allows "Protocol Encryption", e.g. ExpressVPN, is a given when torrenting.
Rotate your server location regularly, and find out which one is the fastest at any given time.
(Singapore, Hong Kong and Malaysia if you are located in LOS)
On top of that, throttling your dl speed to a level that is acceptable for TRUE Online. In my case, that was 1.6mbps.
You can see a speed graph in your torrent client and adjust levels accordingly.
In the end, this was the only scenario that worked for me.

 

I'm grateful for the suggestion, but I've always had my torrent app set at encryption, and the problems started literally with the new router, in a day, and haven't shown up in the last four years a single time. I think most of the reason for all those advertisements on torrent sites urging you to use encrypted VPNs for torrents is to avoid warning letters from ISPs, or having your door kicked down by the FBI-neither of which will happen in Thailand until long after I have left these shores.

 

In fact I have a VPN (Witopia), and using it doesn't make any difference, the router still slows up, and speeds are 10 times less than I got the day before I got the new router. With the old set-up I could download a torrent at 1.2Mbits/s and watch a you tube video at 720p simultaneously. Now I get torrents downloading at 11Kbits/s and can't open a newspaper page on the browser at the same time...

 

 I'm aware that True  throttle some types of traffic, and had myself noticed variable speeds depending on the time of day but the idea they would start throttling encrypted torrent traffic to 10kiB/s on the very  same day as my new router was set up is hard for me to accept.  

 

And this does not explain at all why browsing  and all other internet contact functions are also slowed since browsing is not through torrent ports, and browsing comes back instantly to normal by simply restarting the router.

 

 Unless the way True throttle is to simply close off all internet traffic whether sniffed out as torrent packets and/or torrents port mediated, or not, and turn throttling off within a second of me restarting my router this is not the actual reason. (Although having said that maybe this IS how they do it, I am not knowledgeable enough to know).

 

This is almost certainly a router settings/ handling /hardware problem?

Edited by partington
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6 minutes ago, partington said:

I'm grateful for the suggestion, but I've always had my torrent app set at encryption, and the problems started literally with the new router, in a day, and haven't shown up in the last four years a single time. I think most of the reason for all those advertisements on torrent sites urging you to use encrypted VPNs for torrents is to avoid warning letters from ISPs, or having your door kicked down by the FBI-neither of which will happen in Thailand until long after I have left these shores.

 

In fact I have a VPN (Witopia), and using it doesn't make any difference, the router still slows up, and speeds are 10 times less than I got the day before I got the new router. With the old set-up I could download a torrent at 1.2Mbits/s and watch a you tube video at 720p simultaneously. Now I get torrents downloading at 11Kbits/s and can't open a newspaper page on the browser at the same time...

 

 I'm aware that True  throttle some types of traffic, and had myself noticed variable speeds depending on the time of day but the idea they would start throttling encrypted torrent traffic to 10kiB/s on the very  same day as my new router was set up is hard for me to accept.  

 

And this does not explain at all why browsing  and all other internet contact functions are also slowed since browsing is not through torrent ports, and browsing comes back instantly to normal by simply restarting the router.

 

 Unless the way True throttle is to simply close off all internet traffic whether sniffed out as torrent packets and/or torrents port mediated, or not, and turn throttling off within a second of me restarting my router this is not the actual reason. (Although having said that maybe this IS how they do it, I am not knowledgeable enough to know).

 

This is almost certainly a router settings/ handling /hardware problem?

Go back to the beginning of this thread, you might notice that we had the same problem to start with.
I went through hours of research, conversations with VPN customer care and reset my router.
At the moment, my solution works for me; obviously it could change any minute and speed still goes to 0 a few times/day but not nearly as often as it used to.
FYI once VPN and torrent client are running, speed is down generally to about half of TRUE's normal speeds of 30/5mbps.

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2 hours ago, KyopoBKK said:

Go back to the beginning of this thread, you might notice that we had the same problem to start with.
I went through hours of research, conversations with VPN customer care and reset my router.
At the moment, my solution works for me; obviously it could change any minute and speed still goes to 0 a few times/day but not nearly as often as it used to.
FYI once VPN and torrent client are running, speed is down generally to about half of TRUE's normal speeds of 30/5mbps.

Well I appreciate that you had a similar problem-if not exactly identical -my torrents never got up to any speed at all, they don't go to 3Mbits/s and fall down to 0 like yours. Also the method you said  worked for you

 

"Changing my IP, DNS and/or ports didn't cut it, as TRUE is most likely traffic shaping from the source. Luckily, uTorrent let's you set up an encryption that has finally done it."

 

cannot be my solution since I have had the same setting switched on in my torrent client for the last four years at maximal encryption!

 

As part of my theory there is a router problem: here is a log extract. This to me suggests something is faulty here.  I have no idea what this means, and this extract was from a period where torrents were off and my speed was normal!!!

 

017-04-08 14:26:25 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:26:25 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:26:44 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:26:44 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:27:03 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:27:03 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:27:22 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:27:22 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:27:41 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:27:41 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:28:00 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:28:00 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:28:20 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:28:20 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:28:39 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:28:39 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:28:58 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:28:58 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:29:17 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:29:17 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:29:36 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:29:36 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:29:55 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:29:55 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:30:14 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:30:14 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:30:34 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:30:34 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:30:53 daemon.warn [PPP]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
2017-04-08 14:30:53 daemon.err [PPP]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery
2017-04-08 14:32:32 local0.warn [NTPclient]: Synchronized to server: 
2017-04-08 14:32:32 local0.warn [NTPclient]: Synchronized to server: 
2017-04-08 14:32:32 local0.warn [NTPclient]: Synchronized to 

Edited by partington
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1 hour ago, muratremix said:

Seedbox is best way to torrent.

Online.net has servers from 8.99 eur / month and VPS from 2.99 eur / month at scaleway.

Why bother torrenting at home?

Dont you use torrent to get stuff on and off a seedbox ? The OP would have the same problem as he has now.

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Dont you use torrent to get stuff on and off a seedbox ? The OP would have the same problem as he has now.

I download files from seedbox via http or even better, https ;)

Using singapore relay server if necessary (instead of using proxy or vpn) to increase speed.

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Just as a follow-up this is definitely a specific router problem in the Humax, either because it's no good in general or my particular one is faulty.

 

In my old router I used UPnP to allow the torrent program to send out and receive torrent data. Once UPnP is enabled in router and torrent application this basically allows the program to open the specific ports in the router that allow it to send incoming data to your computer without compromising the rest of the firewall.

 

Using the UPnP logging function in my torrent app shows that the connection to the internet via UPnP is being repeatedly lost and restablished every few minutes with this message:

 

UPnP: Lost connection to service 'WANIPConnection' on UPnP device '192.168.1.1'

 

It keeps having to re-establish the link and I think this is slowing it down . I don't really know much about this but it seems to be the router either is not handling UPnP properly, or is itself losing connection every few minutes. However streaming works fine when torrent app is not on, without any interruptions, for 1080p videos lasting more than an hour on YouTube for example, so I don't think the router is really losing connection. It's something in the way it's handling UPnP.

 

I tried port forwarding in the router to try to avoid using UPnP (replaces UPnP function by setting the router up so it will allow incoming and outgoing data on specific ports on your computer that you tell it to-you have to then tell your torrent app to use these ports only)  but I had little success.  The ports I entered did  not allow data to go through, and testing them showed they were still closed. There are of course no instructions for port forwarding on the True site for this router, but it didn't seem very different from other routers online. However I never got specifying my own access ports to work.

 

So I've gone back to UPnP.  I think the router is crappy, but just have to accept that my upgrade in speed from 13MB to 30 MB has resulted in my torrent download speed (most of what I use the internet for) being reduced 10-fold. TIT. I'll just have to download overnight instead of in 15 minutes after deciding what I want to watch...

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just though I'd give you my experience and maybe it will help.

 

I recently got a new cable modem from True and haven't had any problems with torrents.

 

I'm using the Transmission torrent client with Linux and Express OpenVPN.  Transmission set for prefer encryption and it doesn't matter if UPnP is enable or disabled on the router or in Transmission.

 

I did have to set the router firewall to "Low" or else it blocked ports for the VPN and Transmission.  It took me a while to figure out why the VPN was really slow, so check the firewall settings on the router.  If anything, my Torrent speeds have almost tripled from ADSL so there's definitely a problem with your setup or configuration somewhere.  It shouldn't be something you have to live with.

 

I just did some more testing and without the VPN connected I haven't been able to download torrents at all, even with port forwarding, UPnP, and the firewall configured.  Like you said, it looks like the problem is in the router but using a VPN gets past it.

Edited by Ludacris
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I am not on cable, but VDSL. so do not think your experience is exactly applicable - I do not have a cable router.

 

My experience has improved with learning how this router functions. At the moment it takes my torrents a very long time to start and to accumulate peers and seeds, so for the first 30 -40 minutes or so I get 1kb/s downloads. Then something seems to click in, and speeds go up markedly, to the point where popular torrents with fast swarms can get to 2Mbps, which is fine for me. 

 

With my previous router fast torrents started fast within 30 seconds, and reached max theoretical speed in a few minutes, and also running the torrent client did not slow down other internet functions at all. With this router torrents can take 40 mins to get going, and all other internet traffic is basically blocked.  I think the router is no good and can't handle the traffic, but having learnt that I have to wait 40 min for a torrent to get going, I can live with it!

 

 

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1 hour ago, RichCor said:

@partington,

rather than rely on UPnP, can't you set an open a port forward on your Router and use that in your Torrent application?

 

 

Please read post 42 where I describe doing this and it not working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

At the moment I do not feel I have a serious problem, as I can download at 2-3Mbps, it merely takes a long time to start. 

 

I can also load web pages, in fits and starts, with most timing out.

 

I believe that the firmware or hardware in this no-name router is buggy and just can't handle the multiple in-out connections needed for torrent traffic without freezing up.

 

Lowering max number of connections per torrent to 30 didn't seem to make much difference, so I don't see a way around it, but also can live with a wait before my torrents download.

Edited by partington
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I don't understand most of the jargon, but after they upgraded me to VDSL with the Humax router, my torrent speed varies wildly but usually works fine and much faster than before.  Unless I'm eager to watch something then it barely works at all......

 

However, very often, it is impossible to browse while downloading regardless of the torrent download speed.  Pages simply won't open.  Others in my building have a similar problem.  Is it the router?

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38 minutes ago, partington said:

Please read post 42 where I describe doing this and it not working!!!!

 

As you said, probably a crappy router to begin with.

 

I''m assuming you've configured your computer with a Static IP address, and you disabled UPnP in the application, and tried various port addresses (both low and high). 

 

edit

...and you're not running AntiVirus software that controls the firewall (blocking incoming and/or outgoing ports).

Edited by RichCor
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3 hours ago, RichCor said:

 

As you said, probably a crappy router to begin with.

 

I''m assuming you've configured your computer with a Static IP address, and you disabled UPnP in the application, and tried various port addresses (both low and high). 

 

edit

...and you're not running AntiVirus software that controls the firewall (blocking incoming and/or outgoing ports).

Yes did all the things you mention, have always had static IP on all my network as it only has three things in it and I set  router DHCP pool to exclude the static ones. I also checked ports were not in use by any other program before choosing  which ones to forward, and I have a Mac so have never had any anti-virus program installed .

 

It is the Humax router :  my previous ADSL ZTE one could download  torrents instantly at 1-2Mbps and simultaneously stream Youtube videos without buffering and surf with instant page loading.

 

This Humax one cannot do either even when the torrent is downloading at 1-3kbps. It isn't even the downloading bandwidth - its handling the in /out peer to peer traffic .

Edited by partington
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Check the router and see if it has any security filters enabled.

I've had issues in the past with "anti-hacking protection" or Firewall 'levels' that caused havoc with p2p sharing apps.
 
It would be nice if someone with the same model router running p2p could give you input.
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Check the router and see if it has any security filters enabled.

I've had issues in the past with "anti-hacking protection" or Firewall 'levels' that caused havoc with p2p sharing apps.
 
It would be nice if someone with the same model router running p2p could give you input.

 

Entirely turning off all security /firewall settings in the router does not change the behaviour described though I only did this for one hour just in case.

Edited by partington
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@partington have you tried

1:Lowering the maximum peers per torrent and overall peers

2: limit download speed to say 70% and upload speed to say 10%

3: on the router see if there is a setting for maximum UDP and or TCP ports
Look into commands to lower the UDP and TCP connection timeouts.
With many "consumer" grade routers there is not enough memory and CPU power to handle the many thousands of simultaneous connections that torrent clients like to open
This can result in the ADSL link becoming saturated and or the router cant cope.

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8 minutes ago, johng said:

@partington have you tried

1:Lowering the maximum peers per torrent and overall peers

2: limit download speed to say 70% and upload speed to say 10%

3: on the router see if there is a setting for maximum UDP and or TCP ports
Look into commands to lower the UDP and TCP connection timeouts.
With many "consumer" grade routers there is not enough memory and CPU power to handle the many thousands of simultaneous connections that torrent clients like to open
This can result in the ADSL link becoming saturated and or the router cant cope.

OK I know it's a hassle reading posts but just a few posts ago I describe cutting maximum number of peers/seeds to 30 per torrent and it making no difference, and that even when downloading at 1-3kb/s ( 0.1% of maximum download speed) the router is still clogged. I have reduced total connections and individual connections down to lowest possible and slowly increased, so have probably reached a balance point .

 

I do  know the router can't handle the simultaneous connections needed--that is the problem!

 

  I don't know what you mean by "maximum" UDP and TCP ports - only one port is used at a time for the in-out connections on my torrent client.

 

 I will check to see if there is a timeout control for UDP/TCP connections, and see if reducing it makes a difference though.

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And upload speed did you reduce that along with the download speed throttle ?

my maximum peers is set in transmission client at 5 per torrent , 15 overall and limited to 2 torrents
downloaded at a time
maximum TCP/UDP connections set on the router to 2000 (default 4096) also set timeouts to something like 1 hour instead of 3 days.

Maximum UDP and TCP ports that the router handles simultaneously (not torrent specific) the connections come in/out from the internet on many ports but the router has to keep track of them all and "route" them to one ip and port number (your torrent client) this takes memory and cpu power.

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19 hours ago, ricklev said:

I don't understand most of the jargon, but after they upgraded me to VDSL with the Humax router, my torrent speed varies wildly but usually works fine and much faster than before.  Unless I'm eager to watch something then it barely works at all......

 

When I was testing a 30/10 Mbps FTTH plan from a local cable provider, I found they apparently had very little bandwidth to outside Thailand, or at least various speed tests showed that.  I would get full 30/10 Mbps speed within Thailand, but barely 25% of that with sites outside Thailand, including Singapore.

 

However, when I would download via torrents, I would occasionally see huge spikes in download speed, and when I looked at the location of the seeds, I would find there would be one or two Thailand seeds.  The Thailand seeds took advantage of the 30 Mbps within-Thailand speed, whereas when all seeds were outside Thailand, I would barely get 4Mbps.

 

Maybe something similar is in play with your wildly varying torrent speeds?

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2 hours ago, johng said:

And upload speed did you reduce that along with the download speed throttle ?

my maximum peers is set in transmission client at 5 per torrent , 15 overall and limited to 2 torrents
downloaded at a time
maximum TCP/UDP connections set on the router to 2000 (default 4096) also set timeouts to something like 1 hour instead of 3 days.

Maximum UDP and TCP ports that the router handles simultaneously (not torrent specific) the connections come in/out from the internet on many ports but the router has to keep track of them all and "route" them to one ip and port number (your torrent client) this takes memory and cpu power.

So what speeds do you get on good torrents with these settings and what is your nominal internet speed?

 

I am actually not that inconvenienced by my crappy router, as I know I can get up to reasonable speeds, and I can simply download torrents when I'm not surfing or viewing streams.  It's worse than  before in terms of convenience, but if I wait long enough my speeds are fine now, so I'm going to leave it alone!

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So what speeds do you get on good torrents with these settings and what is your nominal internet speed?
 


My ADSL speed is 12 Mbps down 600 Kb/s up
I have an "always on" torrent client running on a NAS server and the download speed is limited to
500Kb/s 10Kb/s upload.
By throttling the torrents I can stream local IPTV @ 6 Mbps and "overseas" IPTV @ 2-3 Mbps and have the torrents slowly but surely downloaded with enough left over for WWW and email etc.
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1 hour ago, johng said:

 


My ADSL speed is 12 Mbps down 600 Kb/s up
I have an "always on" torrent client running on a NAS server and the download speed is limited to
500Kb/s 10Kb/s upload.
By throttling the torrents I can stream local IPTV @ 6 Mbps and "overseas" IPTV @ 2-3 Mbps and have the torrents slowly but surely downloaded with enough left over for WWW and email etc.

 

Fair enough, very interesting.

 

My nominal speed is 30M down /5M up, and as I said if I run a good torrent for about 30 minutes it will suddenly click into 2.5-3Mbps download speed, which is more than enough for me, especially if I run them at night when I'm not doing any other internet stuff.

 

My initial dismay at this new Humax router was that I thought the initial speeds of 5kbps down for torrents was as fast as it was ever going to get...

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51 minutes ago, Ludacris said:

Have you tried with a VPN yet?

I have a [edit - my mistake- I said it was free but it isn't-cost is a few dollars US a month]  VPN -Witopia- using this is always much slower  for torrents than without, so I haven't pursued it further: I know this is not a result of a firewall problem as the torrent client I have tells me if ports are closed, and they aren't.

 

 I can get 2-3Mbps torrent downloads, meaning I can download a 1hr HD video in 15 minutes or so, and I can cope with the resulting sluggish internet by timing my torrent downloads to when I am not doing other things, so it's really OK.

 

I know the problem is the  Humax router, and it is the capacity of the router to handle multiple in/ out connections . I could solve it by buying my own router but it's not serious enough for that.

 

As you are on cable rather than  VDSL, and this is a completely different system and router I think your problems have a different source than mine.  I think perhaps you are being strongly throttled by True, and encrypting your traffic via VPN may disguise it enough to escape this?

Edited by partington
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