webfact Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Israel moves to mute mosques' call to prayer over loudspeakers By Jeffrey Heller REUTERS The minaret of a mosque is seen in the Palestinian neighbourhood of Beit Safafa in Jerusalem March 8, 2017. REUTERS/Ammar Awad JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A law to muffle mosques' amplified calls to prayer in Israel and occupied East Jerusalem won preliminary approval on Wednesday in a charged parliamentary session where Arab legislators denounced the measure as racist. Supporters of the bill say it is aimed at improving the quality of life of people living near mosques who have been losing sleep. The calls usually begin sounding a little before 5 A.M. through loudspeakers mounted on minarets Opponents say the legislation, sponsored by right-wing parties, impinges on the religious freedom of Israel's Muslim minority. Arabs make up almost 20 percent of the population and have long complained of discrimination. Two versions of law won initial approval and will go to committee for further discussion before any final vote in parliament, in what could be a lengthy process. "You are committing a racist act," said Ahmed Tibi, an Arab lawmaker, told supporters of the legislation. The proposed law refers in general terms to "houses of worship", but it has been dubbed the "muezzin law" by the Israeli media, referring to the man who chants the Muslim call to prayer. One of the bills would ban a summons to worship via loudspeakers between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. That would effectively mute one of the five daily calls emanating from mosques. The second proposal would bar amplification in residential areas at all hours and impose a 10,000 shekel ($2,700) fine for violations. "This is a social-minded law that aims to protect citizens' sleep, without, God-forbid, harming anyone's religious faith," legislator Motti Yogev, one of the bill's sponsors, said during a debate punctuated by shouting matches between the bill's backers and detractors. Tzipi Livni, a leader of the centre-left Zionist Union party and a former foreign minister, said "proud Israelis" should join together in opposing legislation that would only "spread hate and ignite tensions" between Muslims and Jews. During the heated debate, Arab legislator Ayman Odeh rose from his seat, with a copy of the bill in his hands. "This law will not be implemented, I am tearing it up," he said, as pieces of paper fell to the floor. He was ejected from the chamber. Israel has said it is committed to protecting the religious rights of all faiths and battling discrimination against its Arab citizens. But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked outrage during a 2015 election when he urged his supporters to go to the polls because Arabs were "voting in droves". Under the proposed law, East Jerusalem, which Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war and annexed in a move that is not recognised internationally, would be included in the ban. But since the measure covers only residential areas, al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site and located in a religious compound in Jerusalem's walled Old City, would be exempt. ($1 = 3.6845 shekels) (Editing by Maayan Lubell, Larry King) -- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andaman Al Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Oh dear. There could be trouble brewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaibah Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Though it is kinda interesting to hear the call to prayer, it gets old very quickly. Seems each mosque tries to out do the other, and they get louder and louder. 5am is just too early! They should go back to the way it use to be done. A man with hands cupped around his mouth. Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveAustin Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Quote Opponents say the legislation, sponsored by right-wing parties, impinges on the religious freedom of Israel's Muslim minority. Arabs make up almost 20 percent of the population and have long complained of discrimination. So 80% of non-Muslims have to put up with it for the sake of the few? That it is Islam all over I'm afraid; that non-followers get subjected to the racket whether they like it or not. This is one time I agree with Israel. This should happen all over the world, at least in places that have a majority of other folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 They should get alarm clocks with the calls to prayer as a bell. If everyone gets one, there would be no need to the Mosques to call everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I must say it can be very annoying I know when I'm in Jakarta they drive me nutz but it IS Jerusalem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherstuff1957 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 My wife grew up in southern Thailand (NST) and she used to cover her head with a pillow when the local mosque would go off early in the morning and think 'why can't they just shut up and let me sleep!'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the guest Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Must admit it makes sense, I'm sure the Muslims already know when to go to the mosque, given that they must pray at least 5 times a day. In many countries in Europe they cannot use the loud speakers as it constitutes as noise pollution, and of course a nuisance to those that are not Muslims of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 It really makes sense, the one version of the law banning it at certain hours. Why would religion be allowed to bother everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuang Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 What kind of muslim you are if you need to be told to to for prayers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeniau96 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Amplification did not exist in time of Mohammed, it is not mentioned in the Koran or the Hadidth. The old fashioned way of muezzin vocally calling to prayer has a certain charm and would be far more acceptable to all, even late sleepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen087 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, craigt3365 said: Though it is kinda interesting to hear the call to prayer, it gets old very quickly. Seems each mosque tries to out do the other, and they get louder and louder. 5am is just too early! They should go back to the way it use to be done. A man with hands cupped around his mouth. Perfect. I experienced the multiple 'calls to prayer' on a trip to Indonesia. Indeed it does get very old very quickly. I most definitely second your motion, Craig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlover Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, chuang said: What kind of muslim you are if you need to be told to to for prayers.... I'm guessing you haven't lived in an Islamic country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlover Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, sanemax said: They should get alarm clocks with the calls to prayer as a bell If everyone gets one, there would be no need to the Mosques to call everyone They already exist. Such clocks are readily available for sale in M. E. countries. Incidentally, a similar law was passed in Egypt back in Mubarak's time. Mosques were required to hook up one centralized prayer call that went out simultaneously, thus eliminating the ripple effect of competing calls. Needless to say, it didn't work! Edited March 9, 2017 by Moonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 On many occasions when I have traveled to Muslim countries that blast the call to prayer over the loudspeaker, it has always struck me that it is a false call to prayer. Or a rather draconian call to prayer. It is so intrusive, and somehow feels like the opposite of a call to the Divine. If one needs to be compelled in this fashion, how much does the actual prayer mean to the Divine? Five times a day? Regardless of what you are doing? What does it mean? I am a believer, though I believe in more of a positive sustaining force throughout creation, as opposed to the formal view of God. But, I consider the relationship a person of faith develops with the Divine to be very personal. And when a loudspeaker is telling you it is time to pray, I am sorry, but something is wrong with the faith, quite possibly, or the way it is being interpreted or practiced. I have never been a fan, nor a supporter of ritual. You either mean it, or you don't. And if you do not mean it, it does not mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Organised religions usually have a political component. That is to say they try to garner power and resources for their community and reduce the power and resources of their rival religions. My viewpoint is currently Islam is the most politically aggressive organised religion. Blasting the call to prayer at 5 am and then 4 more times each day serves a number of their political goals. I am not a fan of the Jewish state but I think all countries should apply noise pollution laws to these calls to prayer and all other religious caucophonies and non-religious too! Religious freedoms, my arse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 It's really uncalled for. Tradition dies hard, but this is one that should croak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukjim Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 8 hours ago, daveAustin said: So 80% of non-Muslims have to put up with it for the sake of the few? That it is Islam all over I'm afraid; that non-followers get subjected to the racket whether they like it or not. This is one time I agree with Israel. This should happen all over the world, at least in places that have a majority of other folk. Years ago in another country I cut the wires to their speakers and the local police just smiled and ignored me as I done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Completely agree with this. There should be no loud speaker for any kind of announcements unless there's an emergency. If you don't know when prayer is, set a reminder on your phone. Or, if you believe banning the announcements is wrong, maybe we can have some atheists on a loud speaker dispelling religion with evidence and science. To be fair, right? You wanna believe in whatever you want then go nuts. But without evidence, it's a personal belief which should be kept purely that - personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) This is a trivial matter and something that most reasonable people would agree is a reasonable restriction, especially in any nation states not dominated by Islam. Of course as it's something about an ISRAELI policy, we get the usual predictable noise motivated by the worse kind of UNREASONABLE bias against the one state in the world with a majority demographic of Jewish people. It's quite clear the obsessive Israel demonization agenda would find some way to trash Jews and Israel if a non-Jew got a parking ticket. The hatred we get, again and again, on any thread touching on Israel is so incredibly TRANSPARENT. Edited March 9, 2017 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, rkidlad said: Completely agree with this. There should be no loud speaker for any kind of announcements unless there's an emergency. If you don't know when prayer is, set a reminder on your phone. Or, if you believe banning the announcements is wrong, maybe we can have some atheists on a loud speaker dispelling religion with evidence and science. To be fair, right? You wanna believe in whatever you want then go nuts. But without evidence, it's a personal belief which should be kept purely that - personal. I agree there is no practical need for the calls to prayer. Obviously it is seen as a cultural need in many Islamic nations. Especially in these days of smartphones which everyone has, I reckon there are call to prayer apps that personalize the calls to practicing Muslims. In my visits to Islamic nations, I have felt the Muslim calls to prayer were part of the exotic local color, but I'm sure I would feel differently if I lived in a place with them especially during sleepy times. It's not Islamophobic to feel that religious people should be able to do their thing, but some respect for the public that isn't into it isn't out of line. Edited March 9, 2017 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jingthing said: I agree there is no practical need for the calls to prayer. Obviously it is seen as a cultural need in many Islamic nations. Especially in these days of smartphones which everyone has, I reckon there are call to prayer apps that personalize the calls to practicing Muslims. but it is not about that and you know it! why they did not ban loudspeaker call for prayers and events of jews then and only muslim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmac10 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 No doubt in my mind this is how muslims take over neighbourhoods. In Bali they are building mosques and immediately the loudspeakers are cranked up to 11 and within a few months the hindus begin to sell up and move out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I think these loud speakers are a way for one mosque to compete with another. The louder they are, the more followers they have, the more????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just now, craigt3365 said: I think these loud speakers are a way for one mosque to compete with another. The louder they are, the more followers they have, the more????? If so, better pastries would work even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, robblok said: Of course, i hate church bells as much as I hate the call to prayer, there should be no sound pollution from religion. But secular clock bells are cool ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Galactus said: why they did not ban loudspeaker call for prayers and events of jews then and only muslim? Jews are not called to prayer , so thats why it wasnt banned, because it doesnt happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Galactus said: plus, you have to ask yourself; why there are lots of people criticizing Israel? sure it is not for nothing, is that true? have you ever tries to read and understand what those critics are saying? even once? Why didnt people criticise Saudia Arabia when they banned late night Mosque calling ? Was it because it was hardly reported because no one cared about them doing it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fvw53 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 9 hours ago, binjalin said: I must say it can be very annoying I know when I'm in Jakarta they drive me nutz but it IS Jerusalem I had the same experience in Jakarta : my hotel room window on the 15th floor faced immediately a minaret...I suspect there was only a recording, an amplifier and loudspeaker and no real person behind the noise ...I went nearly nuts very early morning and so should the guy if he was really present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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