Source for Home Office UK

[candyman123]

Dear all members,

I need your help in finding very good links/sources to any forum pages on this site or any other sites that relate to problems we, expats face on a weekly, monthly, yearly bases trying to stay in Thailand with your family that does consist of a wife and 1 child.
Example, how difficult it is to keep a family life here, How it is hard to continue to live with your family while being treated as a guest in this country. And like my personal experience when last year I tried to reenter the country and nearly was refused new O visa because I didn't have all the paperwork or the rules have changed without my knowledge, or simply they do different requirements from one Thai consolute to another as different rules apply at one place and not another Thai embassy.

If you can help in replying to my request to use these links/sources of problems with what every expat has faced while living with their family here, that would be great to use for the Home Office back in the UK for my wife to apply for leave to remain on a 10-year route. 
You see I want to show the Home Office just how hard it is to live with your family here in Thailand when making a witness statement for application.

Thanks in advance for any help on this topic. Best Ady. 

[ubonjoe]

Not sure what problem you had on entry to the country. Can you clarify that.

I have been staying here for almost 10 years with my Thai wife and family without any problems. I am on my 9th extension of stay based upon marriage.

[OJAS]

I assume that your wife is Thai and that you are seeking to apply for her to remain in the UK for at least 10 years. As a general rule, I would say that the roadblocks which the British immigration powers-that-be place in the way of a Thai national wishing to live in the UK (even one with a British spouse) are infinitely more formidable than the ones which their Thai counterparts place in the way of us living in Thailand with our Thai spouses or (as in my case) on retirement.

[candyman123]

Hi Members,
I would just like some links to these kinds of problems that we have faced or still facing with trying to stay here in the country. I don't need any help with the Uk side of things as I am getting all that done and dusted. 

I know about some links to being retired here and what you need to do or qualify, like £800.000 in a Thai bank without touching the money. But being married and having the Non-O visa and married to a Thai woman is proving hard to find here on Thai visa forum site. I did spend about 1hr 30 min with only finding nearly 1 link that can be used as a case source to argue the point of just being a visitor and having to leave the country and doing the visa runs every 90 days or so to renew the visa. 
I am just wanting these sources to put forward to the courts of appeal and use them for my skeleton arguments.

Looking for these is proving hard. I know somewhere on here there is a forum on how a Thai woman married to a Non-Thai man doesn't have the weight or same rights as if a Thai man marries a Non-Thai woman and she can get residency a lot easier then I could.

Still looking but failing miserably...... 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

I did spend about 1hr 30 min with only finding nearly 1 link that can be used as a case source to argue the point of just being a visitor and having to leave the country and doing the visa runs every 90 days or so to renew the visa. 

You seem to writing about getting a multiple entry non-o visa. That is not the only option to stay here if married to a Thai.

As I wrote you can easily get a one year extensions of stay based upon marriage. You just need to show 400k baht in a Thai bank or proof of 40k baht income.

[Eff1n2ret]

If you want to quote a source for Thai immigration legislation this is from their website:-

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

As ubonjoe has just pointed out, an income of only 40k Baht per month is required if you are married to a Thai person (Section 2.18 in the document). The criteria for a retirement extension are in Section 2.22. It's very straightforward.

 

If you're looking to construct some sort of "right to family life" case in a UK immigration appeal, I claim no special expertise, but I'd say that ship sailed a long time ago. To try and argue that the rules for a spouse seeking residence in Thailand are more onerous than the qualifications for UK residence would be an uphill task. An income of 40k Baht, say £1k per month to live in Thailand compares very favourably with the minimum £18,600 annual income which you have to show to sponsor a spouse for residence in the UK, and that figure has now been ok'd by the Supreme Court.

 

Compared with the UK Immigration Rules, Thailand's are a model of simplicity. There are sometimes some issues with how individual officers or offices apply their procedures, but in general it's very easy for people to satisfy the requirements of Thai immigration law.

[candyman123]

Ubonjoe thanks, I did know this friend.

I think I am not explaining myself properly here, I need all the problems we have to face for just living and staying in the country and what we have to do to stay here.
I know about the £400.000 Thai Bht thing. But need sources and links to use as a point of argument on how things are with getting visas and can't stay in Thailand without having to renew visas, having to go out of the country every 90 days as a multiple entry clearance sytem. Things like this that other guys have complained or written on this site. then I can use these as skeleton arguments.

Becuase lets face it we are only still treated as a visitor and can't get residency unless we have shit loads of money or have a business that qualifies us to stay here on more permanent bases to remain in Thailand for an indefinitely unspecified period of time.

We as a married man can't get a full permanent residence unless we show things like money, business, the right papers and having to show we can speak and sing the national anthem in Thai.

[candyman123]

Yes, Eff1n2ret this kind of thing is what I am after and more. Thanks.  

[candyman123]

15 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

If you want to quote a source for Thai immigration legislation this is from their website:-

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

As ubonjoe has just pointed out, an income of only 40k Baht per month is required if you are married to a Thai person (Section 2.18 in the document). The criteria for a retirement extension are in Section 2.22. It's very straightforward.

 

If you're looking to construct some sort of "right to family life" case in a UK immigration appeal, I claim no special expertise, but I'd say that ship sailed a long time ago. To try and argue that the rules for a spouse seeking residence in Thailand are more onerous than the qualifications for UK residence would be an uphill task. An income of 40k Baht, say £1k per month to live in Thailand compares very favourably with the minimum £18,600 annual income which you have to show to sponsor a spouse for residence in the UK, and that figure has now been ok'd by the Supreme Court.

 

Compared with the UK Immigration Rules, Thailand's are a model of simplicity. There are sometimes some issues with how individual officers or offices apply their procedures, but in general it's very easy for people to satisfy the requirements of Thai immigration law.

 

There are sometimes some issues with how individual offices or offices apply their proceduers,  This is the kind of problems I am looking for.

[7by7]

 

20 hours ago, candyman123 said:

If you can help in replying to my request to use these links/sources of problems with what every expat has faced while living with their family here, that would be great to use for the Home Office back in the UK for my wife to apply for leave to remain on a 10-year route. 

Why the 10 year route?

 

Why not use the normal 5 year family route?

 

What is her current immigration status in the UK?

 

Are you saying that your wife has been refused FLR or ILR in the UK for some reason and you are now looking to for her to use Article 8 of the ECHR to apply for FLR or ILR due to 'exceptional circumstances' because you cannot live in Thailand with her due to Thailand's onerous immigration rules and procedures? (See section 9 of this guide)

 

 

[Eff1n2ret]

44 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

There are sometimes some issues with how individual offices or offices apply their proceduers,  This is the kind of problems I am looking for.

I doubt the Home Office will be impressed by anecdotal evidence based on the moaning of a few individuals on ThaiVisaForum. There is no general problem, and plenty of people live in Thailand for years on annual extensions without ever leaving the country. It's only your own case which will carry any weight. You say you "nearly" were refused an O visa, but presumably you got here all right. Next time, you'll take a little more care to get it right first time.

 

It's slightly illogical that you're complaining that you "can't get residency unless we have shit loads of money or have a business that qualifies us to stay here on more permanent bases to remain in Thailand" - but I guess that your problem in the UK is that you don't satisfy the (not extortionate) financial requirements for settlement there. The price for less exacting requirements to stay in Thailand is that we have to demonstrate that we qualify every year.

 

Unless you can demonstrate very compelling circumstances in your own personal case, I can't see the Home Office conceding some general principle that the Thai system of 1-year extensions for a large proportion of foreign residents is intrinsically unfair. If they did, they'd have to concede it in every case.

 

I'm not trying to put you down. I'm slightly concerned that if you are appealing a settlement refusal, presumably you have legal advice, and I'd question the ability or the probity of the lawyer that's set you off on this quest for the "evidence" you are seeking.

[candyman123]

Hi 7By7,

Yes, we are doing the 10-year route because I am currently self-employed and cannot guarantee the 18.600 per annum. So we are using  Article 8 of the ECHR to apply for FLR or ILR due to "exceptional circumstances" EX.1 of Appendix FM.
The best interests of any child in the UK affected by the decision because he is settled and attending school. and it would be exceptionally hard to make his return to Thailand and study 2 years behind his age group for the catch-up game.
The likely circumstances, the applicant’s partner and/or child would face in the applicant’s country of return. I would have to work away from Thailand like I did before in order to make ends meet. getting 40.000 Baht per month isn't ideal for a living in Thailand. Not everyone has loads of dosh to keep in the bank or spend..!

Anyway, we are going off track here as it's about gathering evidence to support our case.

So asking for information to help with our tribunal study, please. And just to add I have levelled out other routes to challenge the ruling.

I lived in Thailand for over 12 years and married for 10 of those years. yes, we can just live but not have a reasonable way of living or go on holidays. It was also costing $10.000 per term for my child's Education. where as you know being British our Education system is "FREE" :)
  

[candyman123]

This is mainly about our child's interest than anything we have discussed here. He would be better off living in England than Thailand. Please don't get me wrong here if it was my decision only.... I would have stayed in Thailand and work away to live like a king and pay for our child's Education that isn't good anyway.

Thailand is and still is a great place to live. (IF ONLY)

Wouldn't it be nice if we were recognised as a family unit and stop having being dictated too. 

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

I lived in Thailand for over 12 years and married for 10 of those years. yes, we can just live but not have a reasonable way of living or go on holidays. It was also costing $10.000 per term for my child's Education. where as you know being British our Education system is "FREE" :)

I cannot see the Home Office considering the inability to go on holidays as being exceptional circumstances!

 

Likewise your decision to pay $10,000 a term for school fees when much cheaper alternatives are available in Thailand.

 

12 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

Yes, we are doing the 10-year route because I am currently self-employed and cannot guarantee the 18.600 per annum.

You don't have to guarantee it; just show that you earned it during the last financial year (or previous two) prior to the application.

 

Also, for both FLR and ILR your wife's income can be used. Your child is at school, so she can easily find a part time job which would surely boost your combined earnings above the minimum.

 

Has she applied for FLR and been refused on financial grounds?

 

 

 

[candyman123]

A number of Thai women/men that were refused leave to remain visas when trying it in Thailand is very high don't quote me on this but I would say 95% of those were refused. When I was living there I would read all the time the problems family faced when trying down that route.

At least living in the UK we can have a better life while trying to keep the whole family together. We can only pray that in 18 months,2 years or however long it takes, my wife will be staying until the final outcome. 

[candyman123]

This request is only my witness statement as to my own personal hardship of living and having to work away from my wife and child to support them.
We are using the 9.3. A decision to grant leave to remain outside the Immigration Rules on the basis of exceptional circumstances and family life.

Every application gets refused by the Home Office. You then have to go to an appeal court whereby it can be overturned in Tier 1 or Tier 2.

So this is why I am asking for help please, not asking why this, if only this and what are you doing this for. This is 1 Bundle of skeletons of about 150 that we are compelled to do for our appeal. 

So please if you have any links/sources I would like to use them. Thank you for the help in my case.

[candyman123]

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I cannot see the Home Office considering the inability to go on holidays as being exceptional circumstances!

 

Likewise your decision to pay $10,000 a term for school fees when much cheaper alternatives are available in Thailand.

 

You don't have to guarantee it; just show that you earned it during the last financial year (or previous two) prior to the application.

 

Also, for both FLR and ILR your wife's income can be used. Your child is at school, so she can easily find a part time job which would surely boost your combined earnings above the minimum.

 

Has she applied for FLR and been refused on financial grounds?

 

 

 

 

My wife cannot work legally while waiting for her appeal, you know this. She would love to start work and earn money here in the UK. that would be great if she could show that while working she isn't relying on public funds. 

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

A number of Thai women/men that were refused leave to remain visas when trying it in Thailand is very high don't quote me on this but I would say 95% of those were refused. When I was living there I would read all the time the problems family faced when trying down that route.

Attempting to calculate the success rates from forums and social media is ridiculous. Those who fail often post about it; those who succeed rarely do. The actual statistics show that the majority of family settlement applications are successful; even after the rule changes in July 2012.

 

10 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

My wife cannot work legally while waiting for her appeal, you know this. She would love to start work and earn money here in the UK. that would be great

If she entered the UK as your spouse with a settlement visa under the family migration rules then she could have worked immediately and her income could have been used, alone or in combination with yours, for her FLR application.

 

I say 'if' because your posts are lacking in the information we need to help you; which is what I am trying to do!

 

You now seem to be saying she is appealing a refusal; a refusal of what, initial visa, FLR or ILR; and why was she refused?

 

If refused due to the financial requirement, are you aware that on 22nd Feb. the Supreme Court ruled on MM(Lebanon) and Others, R (on the application of ) v Secretary of State for the Home Department & Anor and confirmed the lower court's decisions that this does not breach Article 8?

 

Although their ruling did say that the rights of any children should be considered.

 

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

presumably you have legal advice, and I'd question the ability or the probity of the lawyer that's set you off on this quest for the "evidence" you are seeking.

Quite.

 

I believe that the requirements for a Thai marriage visa are not onerous enough to convince the tribunal that they are exceptional circumstances. You'll need a lot more than that; as any competent advisor should have already told you.

 

[candyman123]

Hi 7by7,

Though I do agree with you on some matters we have discussed here. This requirement/request I am seeking is just 1% of the appeal process as we have a Bundle made up of over 150 items of using for our case study.
So just asking for links to establish problems we can or could face while living in Thailand. Remember it will only be a small % of what we will use in the appeal courts here.

She arrived here under a family visit visa. why? because I knew that if we tried to go down the route of applying in Thailand for a leave to remain we could be refused and it would be very unlikely that we would get it by all accounts of what I have read and seen friends do. We wouldn't stand a hells chance if she applied in her own country.

Just remember this is only 1% of what I am trying to do in my BUNDLE/SKELETON and it wasn't from my immigration solicitor to ask for this. I am doing this extra stuff for my own arguments of why we want to live in the UK and not in Thailand. the family have to prove we are better off living here in the UK under Human Rights Article 8 appendix EX1 & EX2.

I had many obstacles while I was living in Thailand. 1, working away from my family. 2, having to leave the country every so often. 3, having a 63-page Passport filled up in no time and the headache in renewing it. Feeling how my child's Education was piss poor and paying out loads of money to try and get him the Education I feel he deserves. Let's face it we all know how the Education is in Thailand, don't we?
These are just some of many problems I faced on a daily basis. I would jump at the chance of returning to Thailand if I could stay and live with my family without working away from Thailand in order to have a better life, we all deserve to have this as Human beings.

[7by7]

21 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

She arrived here under a family visit visa. why? because I knew that if we tried to go down the route of applying in Thailand for a leave to remain we could be refused and it would be very unlikely that we would get it by all accounts of what I have read and seen friends do. We wouldn't stand a hells chance if she applied in her own country.

She couldn't have applied for leave to remain in Thailand; you can't apply to remain in the UK if you are not in the UK!

 

Why do you say  "We wouldn't stand a hells chance if she applied in her own country?"

 

Are you saying that she didn't apply for a settlement visa as your spouse because of what you had read posted on the internet by people who had applied and be refused?

 

Are you saying that you made an, inaccurate, assumption on the success rate and so didn't even try to do any proper research to see whether or not your wife and you did meet the requirements? Wouldn't have been difficult to do; a post in the visas and migration to other counties forum here would have got you the answers you need from myself or others.

 

Or are you saying she didn't apply for a settlement visa as your spouse because you knew for certain that you couldn't meet the financial requirement?

 

Even though you could afford $10,000 per term in school fees?

 

If so, you do have my sympathy; my views on this requirement are well known here.

 

However, if that is the case then it seems to me that a better way forward would have been for you to do what many have done before. Move to the UK, find a job paying at least £18,600 p.a. and after 6 months she applies for a settlement visa as your spouse.

 

As you could afford $10,000 per term in school fees for your child you must have had a very well paying job in Thailand, so I'm sure finding such a job in the UK would not have been too difficult for you.

 

However, you decided on this approach instead; so good luck to you. Please let us know how it turns out.

 

[candyman123]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

She couldn't have applied for leave to remain in Thailand; you can't apply to remain in the UK if you are not in the UK!

 

Why do you say  "We wouldn't stand a hells chance if she applied in her own country?"

 

Are you saying that she didn't apply for a settlement visa as your spouse because of what you had read posted on the internet by people who had applied and be refused?

 

Are you saying that you made an, inaccurate, assumption on the success rate and so didn't even try to do any proper research to see whether or not your wife and you did meet the requirements? Wouldn't have been difficult to do; a post in the visas and migration to other counties forum here would have got you the answers you need from myself or others.

 

Or are you saying she didn't apply for a settlement visa as your spouse because you knew for certain that you couldn't meet the financial requirement?

 

Even though you could afford $10,000 per term in school fees?

 

If so, you do have my sympathy; my views on this requirement are well known here.

 

However, if that is the case then it seems to me that a better way forward would have been for you to do what many have done before. Move to the UK, find a job paying at least £18,600 p.a. and after 6 months she applies for a settlement visa as your spouse.

 

As you could afford $10,000 per term in school fees for your child you must have had a very well paying job in Thailand, so I'm sure finding such a job in the UK would not have been too difficult for you.

 

However, you decided on this approach instead; so good luck to you. Please let us know how it turns out.

 

 

Yes, I will let everyone know our outcome in due course. You can apply to leave for remain while in the UK while on family visit visa if you want me to add prove of the source I can do this.
As I said I was working not in Thailand but outside of Thailand to achieve the money we were so accustomed to and pay for better Education for our son. But this is my point I was working away from my family and didn't have any family life with them.

I did my research over 2 years before we made the harsh decision on all plans for the move back to UK. it wasn't just weeks of planning it was months.
So I take it then know one will help in a small amount of request for links based on this reply and what other members are saying. OK looks like I have to do this kind of research without the members help, I just thought some members may help me because we help each other when someone is asking for that help, this is what the forum is all about isn't it? Am I wrong in asking for links/sources for my research?

Thanks any guys..!  
 

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

You can apply to leave for remain while in the UK while on family visit visa if you want me to add prove of the source I can do this.

Family visit visa holders cannot apply for FLR in the UK. In certain circumstances they can apply to remain in the UK; as your wife is doing. Where did I say that they couldn't?

 

18 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

As I said I was working not in Thailand but outside of Thailand to achieve the money we were so accustomed to and pay for better Education for our son

Doesn't matter where you were working. If you were working outside the UK and earning at least £18,600 p.a. for at least 6 months prior to the application and had a definite job offer in the UK starting within 3 months of returning to the UK and paying at least £18,600 p.a.; then you met the financial requirement!

 

To be honest, the more you post, the more it seems to me that you could have easily met the financial requirement in one way or another and so obtained a family settlement visa as your spouse for your wife. You would certainly need to have an income well in excess of £18,600 p.a. to "achieve (in the UK) the money (i.e. lifestyle) we were so accustomed  to" and even more if you wanted private schooling for your son.

 

Although you did say earlier that one reason for moving to the UK was to get free schooling for him.

 

23 minutes ago, candyman123 said:

So I take it then know one will help in a small amount of request for links based on this reply and what other members are saying.

The only evidence which will be acceptable is evidence of the requirements for you to live in Thailand with your wife, i.e. a marriage visa. You have been given a link to those

 

4 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

If you want to quote a source for Thai immigration legislation this is from their website:-

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 See also Residence Permit in Thailand from the RTE in London.

 

Anecdotal evidence of difficulties individuals may have had with the MFA or individual Thai immigration officers will be of no use to you.