Pigs

[Khonwan]

Some excelent posts Khinwan, thanks

What do you think of Moo Bha ? if often though about keping a few on a small scale as I assume that their higher selling price could mean better profit. Quite a few of the thais around here say they are difficult to keep, but you go to any hilltribe village and a large percentage of the houses have them.

I might take you up on that vist offer as I'm not far from you and get up that way fairly often as I have another friend living near Mae Wong, I'm in Tak Far southern end of Nakhon

Thanks Ramdom. I'd be delighted to have you visit. I just noticed yesterday that there is a chap (I can't recall his name/handle) who lives in Klong Lan Pattana (I think that's at Klong Nam Rai, if my wife is not mistaken). I assume that's the friend you may mean. If so I'm around 75km from him; 20km after Baan Khao Chon Kan. I'll PM you the details. I haven't contacted that chap yet but was saying to my wife yesterday that I must visit him since he is so close. You are around 170km from me (I'm 100km from Big C).

Moo Pha (wild boars): We often get the opportunity to eat 100% moo pha from the forest, 2 metres behind our house. A couple of locals shoot and trap them quite regularly, despite the fact that my only close neighbour is the forest rangers station! My wife did previously try her hand at breeding and growing moo pha while I was occupied by my cattle. These were around 80% pure moo pha (as are normally farmed). She looked after them for nearly one year; had around 25 at peak. Waste of time! Other Thais around here who have tried agree. Fatten them like domestic pigs (moo baan) and customers complain the meat is, funny enough, just like moo baan (and why then should they fork out extra money?). Feed them naturally and the (live-pig buying) customer complains they are too thin. They are wild muscular animals in the wild that don't get the opportunity to deposit much fat!

I expect you could make a go of it if you fed/managed them naturally, slaughtered & butchered them, and marketed the meat in the cities (where the meat commands a much higher value). Build strong walls extending under the ground should anyone wish to try farming moo pha - they are true escape-artists who just love your neighbours crops!

[Somtham]

Sorry Somtham, I don't have a digital camera or scanner, but I'll describe it for you. Each of my pens is 4m x 4m. This size is suitable for 12 - 13 pigs based on their needs at around 100kg. Squeezing in more will cause them to grow slower due to excessive heat.

My concrete is 50mm thick (no rebar); it has a 3% slope; it has a hard-brushed finish to prevent the pigs slipping. Each pen is walled to 800mm high consisting of two rows of the normal building blocks (typically 3-4 baht each) and two rows of the ornamental blocks (costing around 6-7 baht). We use the solid blocks on the bottom to prevent waste migrating to adjoining pens (basic hygiene) and the open, or ornamental, blocks above to assist air flow. I do not use gates. A shallow ditch outside carries the waste to a pond - there is no smell since very dry waste or very wet waste has none.

Each pen has a bathing area one block high (200mm) at one corner (bottom of slope to drain to ditch) measuring 2m x 1.6m x 1m x 2m. You could simply use 2m x 1.2m but the shape I have described makes it easier to wash the pens. I fill these with water in very hot weather, which allows the pigs to wallow and cool off. The water is changed each day. I have two 3-inch pvc pipes in each corner for this. No need for a valve - just push an elbow joint on to the outside end when filling and remove it when emptying.

The higher the roof, the cooler - the local back-yard pig raisers have roofs too low for me to fully stand up in. Their facilities are therefore very hot and often rancid.

Each pen has three drinkers: one at 350mm from the ground, one at 450mm, and one at 550mm.

I have a circular self-feed trough in the middle of each pen, which can accommodate around 50kg of feed (a bag of commercial feed is usually 30kg). I feed ad-lib. These troughs cost around 2,000 baht for the stainless-steel versions that I use.

Hang nets to keep birds out. Also hang ... can't recall what you call it in English ('slim' in Thai) ... 50-70% sun shade. This is not for shade - use it to keep out drafts in cold weather and open it otherwise to allow normal airflow.

Hang one of those electric insect killers for night use - very effective (around 600 baht). I get loads of insects (many of them biting pests) that I then feed to my fish. I prefer to replace the UV lights inside them with normal white lights to provide low but usable luminance during the night - still kills all the mosquitoes, etc.

More important than all the above:

1) Buy only from good breeders (albeit local) - check their pigs are achieving 100+ kg no later than 23 weeks of age.

2) Feed only commercial pig-feed, unless you want to try your hand at producing your own, which I don't recommend (involves a very good understanding of essential amino acids, and their balanced to each other, etc. I used to make cattle feed regularly but wouldn't consider pig feed at this time). Your neighbours may well feed their pigs with waste food and agricultural by-products - this will not produce lean meat. If buying piglets at 30 days of age, I feed 30kg of 20% crude protein (cp), followed by 60kg of 18% cp, then 60kg of 16% cp, and finally 60kg of 14% cp.

I should point out that I've only been doing this for 9 months, so I'm still a novice. Have raised beef-cattle for a number of years prior to this though.

You are welcome to visit should you be anywhere near me - I live in Mae Wong, Nakhon Sawan.

Some of my favourite websites:

http://www.thepigsite.com/

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/pigs/940.html

http://purdue.porkgateway.org/web/guest/home

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/swine/index.html

http://mark.asci.ncsu.edu/PIGPEN.HTM

http://www.dit.go.th/diteng/contentdet.asp...1201&ID=322

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

Khon Wan - thanks for the great description. I think I get the jest of it except maybe the irregular shaped, 2m x 1.6m x 1m x 2m, bathing area. I have a dentist appointment in BKK this coming Monday and would like to stop by your place on the way back Monday afternoon. If this is ok PM me a map and a phone number.

There's a very large pig farm not to far from us. Someone has told me it is owned by CP so I need to get by there and check if they sell piglets. If so, the quality should be good. They may also purchase the fattened pigs.

rgrds

[Khonwan]

You’re welcome Somtham. This is my third attempt to reply to you. 1st got lost in cyberspace! 2nd got lost when my PC froze (1st time this has happened to me whilst using XP). Hopefully 3rd time lucky.

I thought that shape might throw you. A better man than me would have described it more adequately I’m sure.

I look forward then to seeing you on Monday, if you can make it. It will probably take you 4-5 hours to drive the 345km from downtown Bangkok to my place. My village is a bit off the beaten track, right up where Nakhon Sawan, Uthai, Tak, and Kampaengphet meet. I’ll PM details and route-map to you.

As I stated in a previous post, I too am interested in talking with CP along the same lines you mention – I’ll be interested to learn how you get on with them.

[Somtham]

You’re welcome Somtham. This is my third attempt to reply to you. 1st got lost in cyberspace! 2nd got lost when my PC froze (1st time this has happened to me whilst using XP). Hopefully 3rd time lucky.

I thought that shape might throw you. A better man than me would have described it more adequately I’m sure.

I look forward then to seeing you on Monday, if you can make it. It will probably take you 4-5 hours to drive the 345km from downtown Bangkok to my place. My village is a bit off the beaten track, right up where Nakhon Sawan, Uthai, Tak, and Kampaengphet meet. I’ll PM details and route-map to you.

As I stated in a previous post, I too am interested in talking with CP along the same lines you mention – I’ll be interested to learn how you get on with them.

Third time is the charm. Got it. You described the shape fine it's just when I drew it out on paper it looked funny and was trying to figure out why. Doesn't matter, I'll come see for myself.

I've been to Khlong Lan many times and the Mae Wong National Forest once but both are in KPP. When I check map Magic I cannot see you Ban. Nokorn Sawan, Amphur Mae Wong...Tambon??? Look forward to your PM.

rgds

[Khonwan]

You’re welcome Somtham. This is my third attempt to reply to you. 1st got lost in cyberspace! 2nd got lost when my PC froze (1st time this has happened to me whilst using XP). Hopefully 3rd time lucky.

I thought that shape might throw you. A better man than me would have described it more adequately I’m sure.

I look forward then to seeing you on Monday, if you can make it. It will probably take you 4-5 hours to drive the 345km from downtown Bangkok to my place. My village is a bit off the beaten track, right up where Nakhon Sawan, Uthai, Tak, and Kampaengphet meet. I’ll PM details and route-map to you.

As I stated in a previous post, I too am interested in talking with CP along the same lines you mention – I’ll be interested to learn how you get on with them.

Third time is the charm. Got it. You described the shape fine it's just when I drew it out on paper it looked funny and was trying to figure out why. Doesn't matter, I'll come see for myself.

I've been to Khlong Lan many times and the Mae Wong National Forest once but both are in KPP. When I check map Magic I cannot see you Ban. Nokorn Sawan, Amphur Mae Wong...Tambon??? Look forward to your PM.

rgds

Hi Somtham - I've PM'd you now. Yes, it's a bit confusing that the main entrance to Mae Wong National Park is in Kamphaengphet but Amphur Mae Wong is in neighbouring Nakhon Sawan. Used to be a king-amphur under Amphur Lat Yao, but no longer. I'm in Baan Yot Hoy Kaew, Tambon Mae Lay (also spelled Lai and Ley). The national park is, I think, fairly split between both provinces. There is now a very nice entrance in Mae Lay at Kaeng Lang Nock Yung (Peacock Rapids), 20km from me. My house is on the boundary of the park next to a forest ranger station. See you soon.

[OneeyedJohn]

Mhu Baa, we had a beautiful boar(200 Kgs called Lennox) and 2 females fully grown in a walled pasture of 3 Rai lots of Mango , Yamyai and banana trees, grass everywhere. Quite a pleasant plot. After 2 years peaking at 67 animals the place was a desert in the dry season and a total mudbath in the Wet season.

We tried to fence off portions to segregate the mothers but if Lennox was horny there was no stopping him.

We mistakenly de-bollocked the young males in the beginning, as one does with pink pigs, but this stunted their growth.

They do not put on weight quickly enough, and after several instances of mothers eating their newborn, we sold the lot.

They take an awful lot of catching & killing

[RamdomChances]

Thanks Ramdom. I'd be delighted to have you visit. I just noticed yesterday that there is a chap (I can't recall his name/handle) who lives in Klong Lan Pattana (I think that's at Klong Nam Rai, if my wife is not mistaken). I assume that's the friend you may mean. If so I'm around 75km from him; 20km after Baan Khao Chon Kan. I'll PM you the details. I haven't contacted that chap yet but was saying to my wife yesterday that I must visit him since he is so close.

Cheers Mate, I got your PM, Yea that sound like Billd766 in Klong Lan , don't bother trying to get in touch until after christmass...he'll be down here

Nakhon Sawan seems to be getting more than its fair share of Falang farmers...it's the falnag farming hub

[Khonwan]

Thanks Ramdom. I'd be delighted to have you visit. I just noticed yesterday that there is a chap (I can't recall his name/handle) who lives in Klong Lan Pattana (I think that's at Klong Nam Rai, if my wife is not mistaken). I assume that's the friend you may mean. If so I'm around 75km from him; 20km after Baan Khao Chon Kan. I'll PM you the details. I haven't contacted that chap yet but was saying to my wife yesterday that I must visit him since he is so close.

Cheers Mate, I got your PM, Yea that sound like Billd766 in Klong Lan , don't bother trying to get in touch until after christmass...he'll be down here

Nakhon Sawan seems to be getting more than its fair share of Falang farmers...it's the falnag farming hub

Been in touch with Billd766 already - actually, he PM'd me after my reference to him above. He said he may try to pop in on me on the way down to you tomorrow. Can't come down to you myself tomorrow as have friends coming from Bangkok.

Bill just called me there - then he got you on another line. Funny old world!

[Somtham]

Mhu Baa, we had a beautiful boar(200 Kgs called Lennox) and 2 females fully grown in a walled pasture of 3 Rai lots of Mango , Yamyai and banana trees, grass everywhere. Quite a pleasant plot. After 2 years peaking at 67 animals the place was a desert in the dry season and a total mudbath in the Wet season.

We tried to fence off portions to segregate the mothers but if Lennox was horny there was no stopping him.

One Eye - Perhaps if you had called Lennox moo Pa (wild boar) instead of mhu Baa (crazy or insane pig) he may have behaved differently.

Sorry, I couldn't pass that one up. Merry Christmas

[Somtham]

As I stated in a previous post, I too am interested in talking with CP along the same lines you mention – I’ll be interested to learn how you get on with them.

Yesterday my wife and I went for a drive in search of the local CP pig farms. First farm turned out to be just 2 km from where we live. At this farm they do the breeding and rear the piglets to 5 kg. My wife politely introduced us to the manager. His comments, "no we don't sell the piglets, this is a closed farm, no you can't look around, no we don't have time to talk." Ouch. Ok, on the road again.

We went about another 10 km and found the CP growout farm. We were met at the front door outside the building by what appeared to be office staff. Again, my wife introduced ourselves. Her comment, "yes, I know, the manager already called me and no you can't look around." Ouch again! She also said there were some farms in the village down the road and maybe we should go there.

Down to the village we go. There were about 10 buildings and we stopped to talk to a lady that was working out in front of one of them. She was very friendly and let us look around, take pictures, and answered questions. It turns out this village used to be rice paddy. CP came in and convinced these folks to raise pigs. CP built the buildings for them, a cost of B1.1M/building, gives them the piglets, gives them the vaccinations, gives them the feed, and transfers the pigs when they're market size. The lady ran 2 of the buildings and had just recently sold off her pigs. The buildings held about 500 pigs per. This last run CP paid her B1.60 per kg for her services. She said the next batch would be bought back at B1.90 per kg. She said the pigs are somewhere between 70-105 kg when CP picks them up.

So let's say she has pigs at 85kg. CP gives her the piglet at 5kg so she adds 80kg over the 6 month period she rears it. 80 * 1.6 = B128 per pig!! I believe ~B1000 / pig is what you had mentioned you were making after pig purchase and feed was deducted.

Wow, what a wonderful business model CP has going for them. No need to purchase land, no employee headaches, no employee benefits, minimal management required, and only pay 13% of market value for the finished product!! Good luck doing business with these guys.

Here's a few pics of the setup at the farm.

View from outside

View of new feeders installed

View of one pen housing 42 pigs. Size ~11m x 4m

View inside

Khon wan - see you later this morning. We'll give you a call when we head out.

rgds

[Issangeorge]

Somtham, it is true that CP are making out like bandats, but the pig farmer is not doing to bad herself, for no investment and thus no loans she is makinng 128baht/pig*500=64,000bahtfor six months*2=128,000baht for 0ne year or 10,666 baht per month, probably about 3 or 4 times what the average villager is making. Issangeorge.

[Jeff1]

Somtham, it is true that CP are making out like bandats, but the pig farmer is not doing to bad herself, for no investment and thus no loans she is makinng 128baht/pig*500=64,000bahtfor six months*2=128,000baht for 0ne year or 10,666 baht per month, probably about 3 or 4 times what the average villager is making. Issangeorge.

Im sure one person is not doing all the work. I would also like to find someone to work for 4 times less that amount. I don't think so.

[JungleBiker]

Somtham, it is true that CP are making out like bandats, but the pig farmer is not doing to bad herself, for no investment and thus no loans she is makinng 128baht/pig*500=64,000bahtfor six months*2=128,000baht for 0ne year or 10,666 baht per month, probably about 3 or 4 times what the average villager is making. Issangeorge.

Somtham said the lady had two buildings and I think he meant to say there were 500 pigs per.... (building?). If so, then your numbers above should be doubled, i.e. she's making >20K per month, right? But as Jeff suggests we really need to know how many people are taking care of the 1,000 pigs.

[Somtham]

Somtham, it is true that CP are making out like bandats, but the pig farmer is not doing to bad herself, for no investment and thus no loans she is makinng 128baht/pig*500=64,000bahtfor six months*2=128,000baht for 0ne year or 10,666 baht per month, probably about 3 or 4 times what the average villager is making. Issangeorge.

Somtham said the lady had two buildings and I think he meant to say there were 500 pigs per.... (building?). If so, then your numbers above should be doubled, i.e. she's making >20K per month, right? But as Jeff suggests we really need to know how many people are taking care of the 1,000 pigs.

You're both correct. She has 2 buildings but is only workingf one of them. For some reason, my wife and I couldn't understand, CP is running the second building themselves. It is her land but they're running it. Maybe because they just installed the new PP feeders and re-did the cement work in that second building and they want to study it. Anyway, the calcs IG did are correct....~B10K/month is what she is pocketing. Also, the lady was 46 years old and doing all the work herself. No helpers. When we pulled up she was in the process of changing some PVC pipe that fed the the cooling system.

Regardless of her B10k/month which around here puts her on par with any rice farmer, Cp is still making a killing on the service she provides.

rgds

PS- Khun naKHONsaWAN - thanks for your hospitality today. your place is wonderful and the wife and I talked about the mountain views all the way hone. Khrap khun mak khrap.

[SanukJoe]

Thanks Somtham for your excellent report! Very informative and I know now why my wife always says: NO CP!! She buys from small farms, looks at the pigs and circumstances and decides whether or not to buy.

Joe

[OneeyedJohn]

Thanks Somtham for the insight and pictures.

My wife was at a local farm this week where the pig excrement was utilised for gas / electricity, if I understand her correctly. You didn't mention how this 500 pig lady deals with hers.

Also out of interest, what happens to the buildings once you decide you don't want to continue with CP ?

BaBaBoBong John

[Somtham]

Thanks Somtham for the insight and pictures.

My wife was at a local farm this week where the pig excrement was utilised for gas / electricity, if I understand her correctly. You didn't mention how this 500 pig lady deals with hers.

Also out of interest, what happens to the buildings once you decide you don't want to continue with CP ?

BaBaBoBong John

There is a concrete channel that runs the length of the building perpendicular to the individual pig pens that collects the daily poop. I thought this then ran behind all of the buildings into a fish pond but the wife is telling me this morning that they collect the dung at the last building and process it for electricity. One of those things I'll have to check out on the next trip out there!

I think if you don't want to continue with CP they simply put a contract out on you and then find someone to take your land and continue. Just kidding. I have no idea what they do but I would guess you have to sign a long term contract. I can't see CP putting up a B1.1M building without some protection. Again, I'll ask on the next trip.

Here's a pic of the poop channel in the pen.

rgds

[Jeff1]

Thank you all for the great information on this subject that I also have a interest in.

What I like best on this thread is that the ego's are left behind and there is a good exchange of ideas.

This is what I / we are planning to do and are now at the concrete pouring stage.

Not so much for the money, but for the employment of my wifes family. If I get a few pork chops a week out of the deal, im a happy guy.

However, I have already learned alot from this thread and I think that after a few more weeks of "pig" banter I wil be able to make the choice or a better one.

My main concern is the waste. Going into the pond, would that not affect the fresh water table? Im thinking that a liner of some sort would be needed. Any information on this aspect of pig raising would be very helpful.

[Nawtilus]

Would like to know about the electricity conversion also.

I visited a farm a long time ago which was setup almost the same as above. The waste flowed into sevral ponds and it stunk to hi heaven thats for sure.

[Somtham]

My main concern is the waste. Going into the pond, would that not affect the fresh water table? Im thinking that a liner of some sort would be needed. Any information on this aspect of pig raising would be very helpful.

Because it is an organic material and will decompose it should not have any effect on the water table. As mentioned in earlier posts there is a limit on how much you can put into the pond before suffocating everything. FAO recommends 0.5-1.0 pigs/100 sq meters of pond surface area for intensive fertilization. So thats a lot of pond area for a small number of pigs. I think all of my ponds totalled only amount to about 2500sqm so I would be capped at 25 pigs if all of the dung is put into ponds.

I think Khon Wan may have mentioned EM in one of his posts. My worker today told me he was reading a Thai magazine on raising pigs and they mentioned adding 1 part EM to 100 parts of drinking water for the pigs reduced or eliminated odors. Worth looking into.

rgds

Nawtilus - Was the smell coming from the pig pen? the ponds? or both?

[Khonwan]

Somtham, it is true that CP are making out like bandats, but the pig farmer is not doing to bad herself, for no investment and thus no loans she is makinng 128baht/pig*500=64,000bahtfor six months*2=128,000baht for 0ne year or 10,666 baht per month, probably about 3 or 4 times what the average villager is making. Issangeorge.

Somtham said the lady had two buildings and I think he meant to say there were 500 pigs per.... (building?). If so, then your numbers above should be doubled, i.e. she's making >20K per month, right? But as Jeff suggests we really need to know how many people are taking care of the 1,000 pigs.

You're both correct. She has 2 buildings but is only workingf one of them. For some reason, my wife and I couldn't understand, CP is running the second building themselves. It is her land but they're running it. Maybe because they just installed the new PP feeders and re-did the cement work in that second building and they want to study it. Anyway, the calcs IG did are correct....~B10K/month is what she is pocketing. Also, the lady was 46 years old and doing all the work herself. No helpers. When we pulled up she was in the process of changing some PVC pipe that fed the the cooling system.

Regardless of her B10k/month which around here puts her on par with any rice farmer, Cp is still making a killing on the service she provides.

rgds

PS- Khun naKHONsaWAN - thanks for your hospitality today. your place is wonderful and the wife and I talked about the mountain views all the way hone. Khrap khun mak khrap.

Hi Somtham - Thanks for your kind comments. We thoroughly enjoyed your visit and look forward to meeting up with you again. I promised you I would provide some details of medications I use on my pigs.

My experience of local District Thai vets over several years of breeding cattle has led me to form a very poor impression of them. Those I have experienced demand payments they are not entitled to, display poor knowledge / skills / interest, and are frequently unavailable. Should you wish to raise pigs, or any other livestock, you should be prepared to learn the basics yourself. The Internet is, thankfully, an invaluable resource. Additionally, profit margins on pigs simply don’t lend themselves to vet fees. For these reasons then, I will post how I treat ailments in my pigs.

Caution: I am not a doctor, veterinarian, pharmacist or similarly trained person so please satisfy yourself first before following my use of the following injectible medications.

For diarrhoea: Tylosine 20% (1cc / 10kg), Lincomycin (1cc / 10kg), Tiamulin 20% (1cc / 20kg). I now generally prefer to use Tiamulin, and would use only Tiamulin should any blood be presented in the diarrhoea).

For wounds and general infections: Oxycline (oxytetracycline; 1cc / 10kg).

For sprained legs and skin allergies: Dexon-A (dexamethasone; 0.5-2cc).

For pain / fever: Novacilin (dipyrone; 1cc / 10kg).

For de-worming: Ivermac-F (invermectin; two strengths: 1% - 1cc /33kg; 1.5% - 1cc / 50kg).

For antidote to invenomation by snake, centipede, scorpion or allergic shock to a vaccine: Chlorpheniramine Maleate (1cc / 1kg; must be injected immediately as death normally occurs within a few minutes).

For loss of appetite: Catosal 10% (1cc / 10kg).

A powder pour-on treatment for maggot infested wounds: Negasunt.

These medications are all readily available at most animal feed shops and are sold OTC (over the counter – no need for prescriptions).

Please (Somtham et al) feel free to comment / advise / correct should you disagree with my medications regime (particularly should any vet/pharmacist be reading this).

I currently vaccinate against Aujeskies Disease (aka Pseudorabies), and Classical Swine Fever. The local breeders usually advise to vaccinate against the latter some two days after you buy 30-day-old piglets but I follow other guidelines advising vaccination at between 6 and 8 weeks of age. Most rearers will probably also vaccinate against Foot and Mouth Disease.

All of the above are inexpensive costing around only a few baht per pig treatment (shop around though - retail prices vary greatly).

[Nawtilus]

Somtham....lol, well it was a bit hard to distinguish as it was just generally rotten all over the place. But the ponds were just behind the pens, so closea dn hard to tell which area, I presume both from the look of the ponds.

[chownah]

Because it is an organic material and will decompose it should not have any effect on the water table.

This was speaking about pig manure......but......it will pollute the water table if dumped without precautions. It will put nitrates (among other things) into the ground water. I suppose that if noone uses the ground water then its a non-issue so long as the ground water doesn't emerge in a nearby stream (which often happens) in which case it could wreak havoc with the riparian ecology.......probably best to handle the manure properly.

Chownah

[Somtham]

Hi Somtham - Thanks for your kind comments. We thoroughly enjoyed your visit and look forward to meeting up with you again. I promised you I would provide some details of medications I use on my pigs.

Thanks for the detailed med info. This will help me keep things straight along with the pics I took of the bottles. I have about 200 sq meters cleared now but still not sure that we'll go the pig route. The uncle was over for a party yesterday and he used to raise about 30 pigs at a time in the moo baan until his sisters made himstop because of the stench. He said eh barely made any money and keeps pushing me to raise chicken layers above the fish ponds. I've read a fair amount about that and love the idea but......that danm bird flu keeps me from doing it. Who knows, one of these days I might just throw caution to the wind and go for it.

Again, thanks for the med info and hopefully we'll see you and the missus this month.

Nawtilus Posted Today, 2007-01-02 19:27:14

Somtham....lol, well it was a bit hard to distinguish as it was just generally rotten all over the place. But the ponds were just behind the pens, so closea dn hard to tell which area, I presume both from the look of the ponds.

Yeh, I understand. My ponds can get a bit foul from time to time if I don't stay on top of them with water addions/changes and that's just with fish inthem...no dung!!!

rgds

[Issangeorge]

My main concern is the waste. Going into the pond, would that not affect the fresh water table? Im thinking that a liner of some sort would be needed. Any information on this aspect of pig raising would be very helpful.

Because it is an organic material and will decompose it should not have any effect on the water table. As mentioned in earlier posts there is a limit on how much you can put into the pond before suffocating everything. FAO recommends 0.5-1.0 pigs/100 sq meters of pond surface area for intensive fertilization. So thats a lot of pond area for a small number of pigs. I think all of my ponds totalled only amount to about 2500sqm so I would be capped at 25 pigs if all of the dung is put into ponds.

I think Khon Wan may have mentioned EM in one of his posts. My worker today told me he was reading a Thai magazine on raising pigs and they mentioned adding 1 part EM to 100 parts of drinking water for the pigs reduced or eliminated odors. Worth looking into.

rgds

Nawtilus - Was the smell coming from the pig pen? the ponds? or both?

A few years ago in Walkerton Ontario Canada the water supply got contaminated with e coli and many people died and many more got sick. The water system was closed down for weeks. They figure it got contaminated from all the comercial pig farms in the area. Issangeorge.

[Somtham]

A few years ago in Walkerton Ontario Canada the water supply got contaminated with e coli and many people died and many more got sick. The water system was closed down for weeks. They figure it got contaminated from all the comercial pig farms in the area. Issangeorge.

George - here is a link to a paper discussing what caused the problem in Walkerton and is a good read. http://geography.ssc.uwo.ca/faculty/baxter...WSandT_2003.pdf

The problem was not dumping dung from 1 pig per 100 sq meters of fish pond for fertilization.

Here's a quote from the report "The pathogens (E. coli 0157:H7 and C. jejuni)

causing the Walkerton outbreak were attributed to contamination of the shallow (5–8 m)

well #5 arising from cattle manure from a nearby farm following a period of heavy spring

rainfall."

There were also numerous other deficiencies and complacencies found in the water treatment facilities.

rgds

[plachon]

Thanks Somtham for the insight and pictures.

My wife was at a local farm this week where the pig excrement was utilised for gas / electricity, if I understand her correctly. You didn't mention how this 500 pig lady deals with hers.

Are you sure it is electricity they're generating and not just biogas (methane)? I would have thought the set-up costs of the former would make it prohibitive, whereas the latter is relatively low-capital investment to feed a house's gas needs. Still cheaper to buy cylinders of propane though.

[Filur67]

Any1 know where to sell these pigs, after 100Kg. I planing and building for 300 sows. I have heard that i can sell to CP, but dont know if they pay good. Any1 have a better option?

/Jonny

[RamdomChances]

I'm not a doctor either but fully agree with what you say about anyone keeping animals need's to familarise themselfs with the medicens for usual treatments as the standard of vet's here is very hit and miss, people should be aware that there is a withholding period on the meat with many of the injections i.e you can not sell the meat for human consumption for x number of day after injecting, generaly it will say on the bottle. I've anotated you post with some extra bit's, the withholding periods are for milk but will give you a general idea....check the bottle first, they usualy come with an information leaflet

Caution: I am not a doctor, veterinarian, pharmacist or similarly trained person so please satisfy yourself first before following my use of the following injectible medications.

For diarrhoea: Tylosine 20% (1cc / 10kg), Lincomycin (1cc / 10kg), Tiamulin 20% (1cc / 20kg). I now generally prefer to use Tiamulin, and would use only Tiamulin should any blood be presented in the diarrhoea).

For wounds and general infections: Oxycline (oxytetracycline; 1cc / 10kg). Witholding period of about a week, can also be used for a duche after birthing if they have any vaginal infections, mix with water and applly with big syringe and tube. Also helps some eye problems, put a few cc in a syringe and carefully squirt into the eye (without the needle attatched) morning and afternoon.

For sprained legs and skin allergies: Dexon-A (dexamethasone; 0.5-2cc). no witholding period

For pain / fever: Novacilin (dipyrone; 1cc / 10kg). no witholding period

For de-worming: Ivermac-F (invermectin; two strengths: 1% - 1cc /33kg; 1.5% - 1cc / 50kg). withholding period of 45 days (mabye a month for meat) has to be injected subcutainesuly (SP)i.e under the skin, not into the muscle, you can by cheaper "ivermac" copies for less then half the price

For antidote to invenomation by snake, centipede, scorpion or allergic shock to a vaccine: Chlorpheniramine Maleate (1cc / 1kg; must be injected immediately as death normally occurs within a few minutes).

For loss of appetite: Catosal 10% (1cc / 10kg). Catosal is also a genral "pick me up" can be given to mothers just after birth to aide recovery and also used along with other medicans to aide recovery of sick animals, Phosphrotoinc is another medicen with simular properties

A powder pour-on treatment for maggot infested wounds: Negasunt. You can get spray on Oxycline witch comes in an airesol can and is a deep purple coulor, which is very good and easy to use, sometimes we use both, negasunt first then the spray

These medications are all readily available at most animal feed shops and are sold OTC (over the counter – no need for prescriptions).

I might anotate this a bit later as there are some others as well but it would mean walking upto the farm to get the bottles If I have'nt comented on anything it's cause I have'nt used it

[Khonwan]

Any1 know where to sell these pigs, after 100Kg. I planing and building for 300 sows. I have heard that i can sell to CP, but dont know if they pay good. Any1 have a better option?

/Jonny

That's certainly a large operation you are planning; should provide you with perhaps 800 pigs for slaughter per month. I don't think that CP would buy them, unless perhaps you are purchasing the sows from them. You can certainly truck them to the few large slaughterhouses. What experience do you already have in pig farming?