Woman claims rape at Bangkok massage parlor and says police refused to prosecute

[cheechee]

1 minute ago, Sakeopete said:

Assuming you are not gay would you ask for a male masseuse? I know most hetero males wouldn't. 

Customers w penis and customers with a hole there are not the same.  MEN are not WOMEN and women are not men.  got it.

[Toshiba66]

I agree with Senior Player above about the spelling mistakes. Even the Hotel Name is spelt wrong. Takes the edge of the facts.

[Graemej100]

6 hours ago, colinneil said:

Rape is a terrible crime, and should never go unpunished.

Reading this thread, something not quite correct.

She went for a massage ok, but females available to provide the service and she chose male. WHY?

 

Why not? Should she not be able to choose"?  And please do not moralise if you choose to answer.

[thenoilif]

2 minutes ago, cheechee said:

Customers w penis and customers with a hole there are not the same.  MEN are not WOMEN and women are not men.  got it.

 

Why do I find this extremely ironic?

[gdgbb]

4 minutes ago, Sakeopete said:

Assuming you are not gay would you ask for a male masseuse? I know most hetero males wouldn't. 

There's no such thing as a male masseuse; a masseuse is a woman, a masseur is a man.

[gdgbb]

1 minute ago, thenoilif said:

 

Why do I find this extremely ironic?

Who knows?  Can't see any irony in it.

[nuakmuaynina]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

agreed- especially near Patpong!!! what was she expecting?!?!?!?!?

don't know if she actually wanted "full monty", but ignorance is NO excuse...

if i want a REAL massage, i ALWAYS choose another female-

the ONLY time i want a male to massage me is if i WANT him to "touch me ALL over"

 

 

Well as another female I don't call BS.

 

You are assuming way too much here. 

From the story she was told no females were available, and getting massage from a guy isn't unheard of in the west.  

 

She might not know the ins and out of the red light district.

 

Even if she did, no still is no. 

 

From my own experience in Thailand, sometimes it is hard to tell if a place is legit or not, sometimes its obvious but not always. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sakeopete]

14 minutes ago, cheechee said:

Customers w penis and customers with a hole there are not the same.  MEN are not WOMEN and women are not men.  got it.

LOL what century are you from? Anyways thanks for clearing up the penis and hole issue for me :-)

 

[Sakeopete]

13 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

There's no such thing as a male masseuse; a masseuse is a woman, a masseur is a man.

Thanks glad to know the grammar police are still active. I stand corrected.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Well as another female I don't call BS.
 
You are assuming way too much here. 
From the story she was told no females were available, and getting massage from a guy isn't unheard of in the west.  
 
She might not know the ins and out of the red light district.
 
Even if she did, no still is no. 
 
From my own experience in Thailand, sometimes it is hard to tell if a place is legit or not, sometimes its obvious but not always. 
 
 
 
 
 

She lives and works in Thailand although is returning to the UK soon. She also can speak and read Thai.

[nuakmuaynina]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

She lives and works in Thailand although is returning to the UK soon. She also can speak and read Thai.

I too have lived in Thailand and also speak Thai....not mastered reading as of yet though.

 

But even so. I stand by what I said. 

 

Unless you go seeking it or its glaringly obvious it sometimes is hard to tell, if you are not a frequenter of that type of place. 

 

My ex husband used to point them out to me, if he hadn't I'd never know. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

Too much "victim blaming" on here ... not everybody is worldly-wise, some people only see the good in others.

[brewsterbudgen]

I too have lived in Thailand and also speak Thai....not mastered reading as of yet though.
 
But even so. I stand by what I said. 
 
Unless you go seeking it or its glaringly obvious it sometimes is hard to tell, if you are not a frequenter of that type of place. 
 
My ex husband used to point them out to me, if he hadn't I'd never know. 
 
 

I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to counter some of the objectionable posts that are portraying her as a gullible or naive tourist, instead of someone who has been pinned down and forcibly violated.

[gdgbb]

21 minutes ago, Sakeopete said:

Thanks glad to know the grammar police are still active. I stand corrected.

Nothing to do with grammar, simply a gender distinction which is very relevant in this thread.

[redwinecheese]

9 minutes ago, smedly said:

who says she was naked ?

 

you sound like you are very familiar with these types of places - not everyone is like you - male or female

Of course you have to be naked in oil massage, you seem you don't get OP point of view 

[Thomas Hannah]

7 hours ago, Thechook said:

I'm a man and prefer a massage by a female and never been raped.

But you can pay for the extras,and dream.

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, thenoilif said:

What is wrong with some of you? I understand that TV does attract more than its fair share of men who have been disenfranchised by Western feminism but give this lady a break.

 

The woman reported it as a rape. I would think in this day and age we would assume she was telling the truth first and take things at face value and stop adding your own narrative to promote some bitter misogynistic agenda. It's not like this guy is some famous athlete or celebrity

 

Patpong is a very touristy location now and most of the massage shops on Silom Rd and Surawong are not rub and tugs. I frequent them for a foot massage or an oil and the majority do not try anything. Some will provide extra services but you usually have to prod them for it. Since certain events, they have become even more conservative about it as police are seemingly cracking down on this sort of thing.

 

I also often see foreigners, mostly backpackers stopping in for a foot, Thai or oil massage with no desire for anything sexual. 

 

And regardless of what services she did ask for, if it got to a point where she didn't want things to go any further and said 'stop' or 'no' than it ends there. Anything the guy does after that is rape and I typically don't find that being held down against your will as part of a typical massage even in this area of the city.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly, because of too many false rape accusations made by women against men in the past, it cannot automatically be assumed women are telling the truth first and take them at face value. I describe it as the boy who cried wolf syndrome, whereas those who have lied and even put innocent men into prison have made it difficult for the genuine victims of rape, unless a case of rape is obvious, woman has injuries, beaten or was drugged.

 

The problem is that these reports, as in the OP, are usually just the bare facts (excuse the pun) with many details left out, so we don`t get a clear picture to what happened and the situation involved. So I can only say; in this case I really don`t know.

[Senior Player]

9 minutes ago, nuakmuaynina said:

 

Well as another female I don't call BS.

 

You are assuming way too much here. 

From the story she was told no females were available, and getting massage from a guy isn't unheard of in the west.  

 

She might not know the ins and out of the red light district.

 

Even if she did, no still is no. 

 

From my own experience in Thailand, sometimes it is hard to tell if a place is legit or not, sometimes its obvious but not always. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, nuak, but I feel compelled to comment on your post. You yourself have made a big assumption after declaring the OP has stepped over the line by making one themselves. Especially on the matter of "getting a massage from a guy isn't unheard of in the west" and "she might not know the ins and out of the red light district."

 

Firstly, she's not in the west so any correlation to what goes on back home in one's own home country should never be nonchalantly imposed on your host country, especially when visiting a developing country like one such as Thailand. It's up to the individual to educate themselves on crime, no-go-areas, scams, customs, the dos-and-don'ts, and to be fully aware of recent news stories whereby a serious crime has befallen a previous unlucky tourist. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

 

As for "not knowing the ins and outs of a red light district", what's there to know? It's a district that is nefarious and is mostly run by criminal gangs or their syndicate families, whilst tending to attract the worst the city has to offer in terms of nefarious business practices. It's the same the world over. Going into any country or city's red light district is risky, and should not be treated as a tourist-friendly attraction, which I know many travellers add to their must-see list like it's Times Square or Regent Street. Now, I'm aware that Patpong has cleaned itself up a bit, it's less shabby than it was 20 years ago.... but.... it's still a red light district. Don't matter how you dress it up, put a gloss on it, it's still a notorious and worldwide-renown sex district. Safety is not guaranteed. Other such places are Soi Cowboy and the Nana Plaza. It's advisable to any newcomers to always have ones wits about them and their guard up when visiting these areas, and it's up to the traveller to be aware of what's going on around them. Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world. Same happens to countless female backpackers when trekking across India. It seems many young females are either ignorant or under the belief it won't happen to them. It does, it will and it'll happen again and again. Not everyone, because not every girl will put themselves in harms way. I just hope this particular girl can get over this terrible crime against her.

[novo58]

It would seem that many TV members have only ONE image of the term "Rape".

In some countries physical contact with a female without her express consent can be considered ...rape.

A male does not have to remove his clothes to commit ................................rape.

The western concepts of rape and sexual assault have a very fine line between them.

 

Any contact by this  man without her consent is not only illegal but also immoral. 

She expected a massage..............he offered more and it was not consented to. he obviously did not ASK he just made an

( incorrect) assumption as to what was wanted................or he simply wanted to fulfill HIS fantasy.

 

Either way the only person in the wrong is HIM.

[orchidlady]

I'm a female and I prefer a male for massage, not because I want stronger pressure-exact opposite. Maybe it's just me, but with arthritis,, injured knee and having had back surgery before, I want a softer massage. After numerous oil massages here and in other Asian countries,  over 8 years, the Thai (and other Asian ) women have thin, bony hands and fingers. It hurts when they apply some pressure. When you tell the men soft (bao bao) maybe because of their innate strength, they give me a much softer massage. With their bigger hands, I don't get pain from their larger, non-bony hands. I also find the men don't talk with the other masseuses working on the next table (in cheaper places with only dividing curtain). I also cover my top with towel made to cover like a crop top and towel covering my butt. The masseur puts a towel over me and just opens the part they are working on.

[thenoilif]

41 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Sadly, because of too many false rape accusations made by women against men in the past, it cannot automatically be assumed women are telling the truth first and take them at face value. I describe it as the boy who cried wolf syndrome, whereas those who have lied and even put innocent men into prison have made it difficult for the genuine victims of rape, unless a case of rape is obvious, woman has injuries, beaten or was drugged.

 

The problem is that these reports, as in the OP, are usually just the bare facts (excuse the pun) with many details left out, so we don`t get a clear picture to what happened and the situation involved. So I can only say; in this case I really don`t know.

 

I would agree if there was a time where a woman's word when it comes to rape was generally taken seriously but it went from women not being able to report it at all, to not being believed if they did, to only being believed sometimes. 

 

What we are seeing with this very incident is not dissimilar to what women face in the West. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cyberfarang]

3 minutes ago, orchidlady said:

I'm a female and I prefer a male for massage, not because I want stronger pressure-exact opposite. Maybe it's just me, but with arthritis,, injured knee and having had back surgery before, I want a softer massage. After numerous oil massages here and in other Asian countries,  over 8 years, the Thai (and other Asian ) women have thin, bony hands and fingers. It hurts when they apply some pressure. When you tell the men soft (bao bao) maybe because of their innate strength, they give me a much softer massage. With their bigger hands, I don't get pain from their larger, non-bony hands. I also find the men don't talk with the other masseuses working on the next table (in cheaper places with only dividing curtain). I also cover my top with towel made to cover like a crop top and towel covering my butt. The masseur puts a towel over me and just opens the part they are working on.

Depends on how old you are. If a lady customer is elderly with a body like a wrinkly potato sack then maybe a masseur will only be too happy to oblige and keep her covered up as much a possible, but if a woman customer is young and attractive then maybe a masseur will succumb to his male desires and step over the line. This even happens with doctors and male university teachers.

 

There is never, ever any excuse for men that rape women, but women must still share some responsibility for their own safety, such as; not to get high on drink or drugs leaving themselves blotto and out of their senses and not to place themselves in vulnerable situations believing that others have the same moral principles as they do and will not try to take advantage of that vulnerability. For example; if I were to walk around in a rough part of town carrying 100000 baht in cash, credit cards, cell phone, my passport and then get robbed, I must share some of the responsibility because I would had placed myself as a victim waiting to happen. No excuses for criminals, but common sense should play a part in this as well.

[billybog]

If your theory held true....than all men in Thailand should be massaged by males. maybe this woman just wanted a male masseurse. that doesnt mean she wanted to be raped. What you have said is pure racist.

[scubascuba3]

A big error to go to Patpong for a legit massage. I was in Borneo once with a farang girlfriend, we were about to have a massage in a shop, the guy went straight to my gf, i said no lady only, potential problem averted. A guy in that situation will take advantage if he can.

[wakeupnation]

The problem here is the woman coming to Thailand and *expecting* the same rules and feminist treatment she receives in the west. Thailand is not a western country. Sometimes people need to go though these experiences to understand the difference between Canada, US, UK, Australia, etc. She's lucky she's not visiting an Arab country, she may have been drugged up on heroin, taken out the back door, and forced into the prostitution circuit never to be heard from again.
Just wait until the immigration numbers amass more in our countries. This type of thing will become more common. All in the name of "equality* and *diversity*, we'll be able to compete with the 3rd world.

[Italian guy]

12 hours ago, colinneil said:

Rape is a terrible crime, and should never go unpunished.

Reading this thread, something not quite correct.

She went for a massage ok, but females available to provide the service and she chose male. WHY?

You seem to reason like the Thai police, nothing to be proud of! A woman should have the right to chose a masseuse or a masseur as she likes. A professional masseur shouldn't behave like that. If she was your daughter or your girlfriend what would you say?

[redwinecheese]

1 hour ago, wakeupnation said:

lucky she's not visiting an Arab country, she may have been drugged up on heroin, taken out the back door, and forced into the prostitution circuit never to be heard from again.

over the topic comment 

Edited March 13, 2017 by redwinecheese

[Dumbastheycome]

There  are   Massage  Parlors  and there are  parlors. 

Once inadvertently went to  one of the  latter  and  had a  lady boy masseuse. Was  surprised  when  about  30  minutes into what I had expected  would  be a  genuine  massage I was  asked   why  I was  was  not   up? When I said I only   get  up for  my wife the  masseuse declared  a sudden headache and left ! I did  not  pay even though the  massage was (  until  that point ) conventional but abandoned. Management  had  no problem with  that. 

 

 

[redwinecheese]

I am a man and if a lady wants me to do her oil massage I think that is a good sign to do her all the way unless I am blind 

Edited March 13, 2017 by redwinecheese

[cyberfarang]

5 minutes ago, Italian guy said:

You seem to reason like the Thai police, nothing to be proud of! A woman should have the right to chose a masseuse or a masseur as she likes. A professional masseur shouldn't behave like that. If she was your daughter or your girlfriend what would you say?

I agree a woman or anyone else should have the right to choose whatever suits their preferences, but that doesn`t always mean they are making the right choices.  Knowing this to be a third world country where professionalism takes on a whole different concept to what we consider as professional conduct in the west, I would say; please think this over and don`t do it as you know it makes sense.