Woman claims rape at Bangkok massage parlor and says police refused to prosecute

[sandemara]

Not just the police, but many contributors here seem to want to blame the victim of rape. Why?   People wanting to justify rape of defenceless, vulnerable females in any circumstances cause just as much harm as any rapist. Rape is not just a sexual offence, it derives from a need for power, dominance - extreme, brutal bullying

[jenifer d]

20 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Entirely based upon what you prefer, I note.

 

Given you are two distinct individuals, your shared gender gives your personal opinion no extra weight in this instance.

on the contrary- it gives me the extra weight of being the only one who can TRULY empathize and/or completely understand the various possibilities and probabilities of the situation...

and as for what i personally prefer, i am solidly and unabashedly bisexual;

if i want a massage i go to another female, if i want a "massage" w/"extras", i go to a male...

[jenifer d]

12 hours ago, juice777 said:

 

And who chooses who's going to massage you if there no sex involved. I never been in a Thai legitimate massage shop where they give you a choice anyway. So I doubt they asked her to choose anyway. Its hard for me to answer this question because I am not a woman, but wouldn't it be bad manners to ask for a different person to massage you? When you are assuming it's a normal respectable place.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

one ALWAYS can choose; and no, it is NOT bad manners...

and speaking as a woman, were it actually rape, unless it was at gunpoint (which it was when i was raped- in the West, not here) i would be kicking and hitting and  screaming bloody murder- and were it REALLY rape, i would demand justice, not money!!!

[smedly]

10 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

one ALWAYS can choose; and no, it is NOT bad manners...

and speaking as a woman, were it actually rape, unless it was at gunpoint (which it was when i was raped- in the West, not here) i would be kicking and hitting and  screaming bloody murder- and were it REALLY rape, i would demand justice, not money!!!

one of your problems of which there seem to be many is that you are simply accepting the police and the establishments version of events, I don't. One thing the police are very good at here is telling stories.

 

It would be interesting to know who actually owns this place, my guess would be someone working in the building were she went to report the assault

[brewsterbudgen]

Strange how people are so quick to believe a trashy Thai tabloid's version of the events!

[claffey]

1 hour ago, sandemara said:

Not just the police, but many contributors here seem to want to blame the victim of rape. Why?   People wanting to justify rape of defenceless, vulnerable females in any circumstances cause just as much harm as any rapist. Rape is not just a sexual offence, it derives from a need for power, dominance - extreme, brutal bullying

I disagree with your view. Many of the posters here have lived here a long time. We all know that it's not safe for a western woman to be in certain places at certain times. Does that mean a woman deserves to be raped? No it doesn't. But many western females seem oblivious to the dangers. They don't deserve to be attacked but they put themselves in vulnerable positions. For example, Thai women rarely wear bikinis to beaches. Then a western girl comes on holidays with a tight bikini and , well, large melons! Obviously Thai men will start looking at her. She then leaves the beach at 7pm and walks through the jungle to get back to her small hut. She is attacked on the way... Was it her fault? No but she placed herself in a silly, vulnerable position due to a lack of cultural awareness and common sense ( in terms of Thailand and not her home country)... 

[smedly]

17 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

and THIS update:

 

There is a report on this story in Thairath today 13/03/17 which gives more details and a different version of events emerges.

 

why do you keep spamming this news report and how many times have you mentioned your "rape at gunpoint" on this thread.

 

Honestly I think you need to settle yourself down go and spend the day at the beach far away from the internet and relax

 

you have made it clear that you believe the report from the police and the businesses version of events, we got it, now go and relax

[AGareth2]

If she wants to bring a charge of rape she needs to prove she was raped

calling people rapists and getting them locked up is serious

why will she not go to hospital?

if you have been raped would you accept a few thousand baht compensation?

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by AGareth2

[steven100]

A woman goes into a Patpong massage parlour,  asks to be massaged by a male masseur, then goes to the police claiming rape .....

 

hmmmmm .......

[brewsterbudgen]

A woman goes into a Patpong massage parlour,  asks to be massaged by a male masseur, then goes to the police claiming rape .....
 
hmmmmm .......

She says only male masseurs were available. In any case, does the fact the alledged rapist is a masseur mean that it is acceptable to rape clients?

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

She says only male masseurs were available. In any case, does the fact the alledged rapist is a masseur mean that it is acceptable to rape clients?

certainly not ...   as mentioned .. she needs to have proof that she was raped, so she should go to a hospital.  If she screamed out ... why weren't other staff alerted  ?? ... and normal action would be to run in.  ?  TIT ....  if you wish to press charges against any thai you better make sure you have all bases covered, T's crossed and i' s dotted otherwise you'll get nowhere every time.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

why do you keep spamming this news report and how many times have you mentioned your "rape at gunpoint" on this thread.

 

Honestly I think you need to settle yourself down go and spend the day at the beach far away from the internet and relax

 

you have made it clear that you believe the report from the police and the businesses version of events, we got it, now go and relax

Were you there?  It seems you need to get away from this thread. You appear to be stressed/obsessed with being her advocate and believing the story even though more information has come out on what a scam it is.  Relax, come to Pattaya, i'll buy you a Pina Colada.

[thenoilif]

2 hours ago, jenifer d said:

as a female, i told you that my BS detector was going off on this one-

now the truth comes out, it sounds like the girl & her bf are scam artists!!!

 

so all of you defending this woman's honor, what say you now???

GUARANTEED that if it was TRULY rape, she wouldn't have left w/o saying something and/or going to police immediately!!!

 

i HAVE been raped- at gunpoint- and i didn't dare tell anybody as it was someone whom i KNEW and he had HUGE Crip LA street gang connections-

but anything short of gunpoint and a known gang associate? no way am i getting raped or it goes unreported!!!

 

"so all of you defending this woman's honor, what say you now???"

I will continue to make the same point in that the benefit of the doubt (given absence of definitive facts) should be  given as the majority of these situations do end up turning out to be rape. In this case, and we still don't know what really happened, if she does end up being a scammer than it becomes a criminal situation on her part and things change but to assume that we shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to alleged rape victims to the point that they dont' feel free of guilt from reporting it is not the right way to go IMOP.

 

1 hour ago, claffey said:

I disagree with your view. Many of the posters here have lived here a long time. We all know that it's not safe for a western woman to be in certain places at certain times. Does that mean a woman deserves to be raped? No it doesn't. But many western females seem oblivious to the dangers. They don't deserve to be attacked but they put themselves in vulnerable positions. For example, Thai women rarely wear bikinis to beaches. Then a western girl comes on holidays with a tight bikini and , well, large melons! Obviously Thai men will start looking at her. She then leaves the beach at 7pm and walks through the jungle to get back to her small hut. She is attacked on the way... Was it her fault? No but she placed herself in a silly, vulnerable position due to a lack of cultural awareness and common sense ( in terms of Thailand and not her home country)... 

5

In that last sentence you say its not her fault but then basically say that it happened because she put herself in that situation due to a lack of knowledge so are you not saying it is her fault? This is the exact argument that the officials make when these incidents occur.

 

Your example and the situation that we are discussing in this thread are not cases of wandering out into some untamed  wilderness unprepared. One is a massage parlor and the other is a beach and both are highly explored territories that have been frequented by foreign women for decades. Foreign tourists have always worn bikinis on beaches here and in some cases I've seen them sunbath topless. I am also sure that 100s if not 1000s of foreign women have derobed and been massaged by Thai men without the inclination of being pleasured sexually. None of these women are opening themselves up to rape the same as a businessman wearing a nice suit and strolling down a sidewalk isn't asking to be robbed. Thailand doesn't promote itself as a dangerous place to visit, it doesn't have laws against women getting massages from men, and it doesn't restrict women from wearing bikinis on the beach, in fact it promotes all of this through its tourism trade.

 

The issue here is not with the victims, its with criminals, sociopaths who don't have respect for other people or the laws of their country. Its all on them and the last time I checked the inmates aren't running the asylum

[Senior Player]

17 hours ago, nuakmuaynina said:

 

Yes she isn't in the west, but many people who come to Thailand don't bother to grasp an understanding local knowledge,  and lots of people do not know the ins and outs of the red light district, beyond the fact they exist.  Why would somebody, if its not something they go seeking out or want to have any knowledge of? 

 

Beside which its still no excuse. rape is rape whether it happens in the red light district or not.

That's my point, nuak, that people can't be bothered to read up on places that they're visiting. In other words, there's lots of lazy, stupid and ignorant people that come to Thailand that know zip about the culture and zip about anything. In fact they're blissfully ignorant and live in some kind of vacuous bubble. But, hey, that no longer seems to be the case here, now does it? What was once a very sketchy story posted on another expat forum has now been expanded on, and I withdraw any sympathy I once had for this lady.

 

Besides, your remark about "rape is rape" is not strictly true or indeed accurate, especially when it's only an allegation, whereby we have to take her word without knowing the full story. It would seem the accused is guilty because of an allegation, because she's a woman and women never lie about rape, according to you. 

 

In my first post, I questioned the absence of the boyfriend. The updated story fills in this missing part of the jigsaw. Unless there's more to this story than meets the eye I'm going to file it under "scam artist" and be done with it. There's nothing more despicable in my book than a woman who falsely claims rape when she hasn't been. 

Any credibility that this lady and her friend had went out the window when she assaulted the hotel staff and had to be arrested by them.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Senior Player

[Xaos]

Apparentely british woman is a con artist

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1027445937328898?view=permalink&id=1442066312533523

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[brewsterbudgen]

Apparentely british woman is a con artist

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1027445937328898?view=permalink&id=1442066312533523

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Yes, in the opinion of the misogynists trolls...

[gdgbb]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

were you there ?

Why do you ask?  I didn't need to be there in order to read reports about the incident and express an opinion about them.

[Senior Player]

After reading a little bit more on the subject, I'm still unsure about the truth. It is strange that the massage parlour would pay out a sum of money if she was a scam artist. Surely they'd tell her to get on her bike? Reading some of her messages that have been posted it seems that there was a big misunderstanding at Le Méridien Hotel, whereby she thought they were giving her a complimentary buffet meal due to her previous ordeal. Apparently she told the staff what had happened before and in her muddled state of mind thought they were offering them a complimentary meal. I dunno, this whole story is all over the place. It could be true, then it could be a lie. I guess the police medical results will tell us the truth.

[brewsterbudgen]

After reading a little bit more on the subject, I'm still unsure about the truth. It is strange that the massage parlour would pay out a sum of money if she was a scam artist. Surely they'd tell her to get on her bike? Reading some of her messages that have been posted it seems that there was a big misunderstanding at Le Méridien Hotel, whereby she thought they were giving her a complimentary buffet meal due to her previous ordeal. Apparently she told the staff what had happened before and in her muddled state of mind thought they were offering them a complimentary meal. I dunno, this whole story is all over the place. It could be true, then it could be a lie. I guess the police medical results will tell us the truth.

Her latest Facebook post is an apology to the hotel for the fracas, and thanking them for assisting her in her traumatised and distressed state following the rape.

[rwdrwdrwd]

5 hours ago, jenifer d said:

on the contrary- it gives me the extra weight of being the only one who can TRULY empathize and/or completely understand the various possibilities and probabilities of the situation...

and as for what i personally prefer, i am solidly and unabashedly bisexual;

if i want a massage i go to another female, if i want a "massage" w/"extras", i go to a male...

 

No it does not, because not all women are the same, they do not all share the same preferences, fears, trust levels, judgement or reaction to emotionally stressful situations.

 

Just because you associate the selection of a male masseur with getting your rocks off does not mean that all women do.

I get massages from women all the time without wanting or expecting sex, whereas some men simply wouldn't get a massage that didn't include sex. I'm confident there are plenty of female human beings that take a similar approach to massages, and that they don't all have identikit preferences and outlooks (thank god).

Edited March 14, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed as well as the multiple posts quoting it. 

[Senior Player]

54 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Her latest Facebook post is an apology to the hotel for the fracas, and thanking them for assisting her in her traumatised and distressed state following the rape.

Interestingly, if you go to Xaos link above, scroll down to some of the comments below it, someone has posted a couple of screenshots of her message boards between friends that state what I've just repeated. I believe these messages have now been deleted but are still visible on the posted screenshots. I can't see the Facebook apology myself, maybe that, too, has been removed? It also mentions that she's at the British Embassy awaiting the medical results. I don't know whether they're fake messages by a troll. Can't see why someone would do that?

 

But like I said before, it's odd that the massage parlour would be willing to make a payout if there wasn't some truth to her allegations. It certainly hasn't made the allegations go away, apart from giving them some legal leverage to sue her if she continues to press her case. This whole Le Méridien business has only added to the confusion, and it's a shame she neglected to mention it in her original post to the expat forum, as it doesn't paint her in a very good light. As someone else said, she really needed to sit down and make sure she'd dotted all her i's and crossed all her t's before posting her allegations on a forum. She's no newbie ST traveller, but someone who's been working and living here, and can apparently speak the lingo. I'm just surprised by her naivety.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Senior Player

[Italian guy]

21 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I agree a woman or anyone else should have the right to choose whatever suits their preferences, but that doesn`t always mean they are making the right choices.  Knowing this to be a third world country where professionalism takes on a whole different concept to what we consider as professional conduct in the west, I would say; please think this over and don`t do it as you know it makes sense.

Ok, reformulated this way your points seem a lot more reasonable and I agree with you. See, being the father of two daughters I can't help thinking "what if one day my daughter is in a situation like that?". I will try my best to teach them to stay safe and use their best judgement but at the same time I go literally mad when I read things like this. 

[Dogmatix]

It seems that she was told there were no female masseuses available. It is a pity she didn't just leave and walk down the street a few yards to find another similar establishment where she could have got a female masseuse but young backpackers are often naive and have a false sense of security.  It sounds like this was a genuine and brutal rape.  Most of the male masseurs in that area are there for gay tourists.  They may actually be hetero themselves but they know very well that young farang backpacker chicks are not looking for sex with a sleazy male masseur.  They have much better choices and this one was with her boyfriend.  Nevertheless, I am not surprised at the disgusting attitude of Thai police.  Although there are honourable exceptions, the force as a whole is simply depraved and corrupt.  

[rwdrwdrwd]

4 hours ago, Crkza said:

Dont belive in her. She's a Femenist. She Belives in Rape Culture. So she claims the Male massager raped her by JUST MASSAGING HER!  Belive me. And she is trying to destroy our Thailand. Damn. also she doesnt even call the cops. the cops just said it.

 

Oh right well if the cops SAID it then that's definitely case closed isn't it.

As for the rest of your post.. probably would have been better to leave it under the bridge when you nipped out. How can you possibly claim to know exactly what's gone on or what her motivations are.

Edited March 14, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[steven100]

11 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Her latest Facebook post is an apology to the hotel for the fracas, and thanking them for assisting her in her traumatised and distressed state following the rape.

Has she lost the plot ...   ?  was she trying to con the police into believing her story   ?

 

When she said she yelled and screamed ' no' to the masseur .... why didn't other staff run into the room to see what was happening  ?    that would be the normal reaction I would think .....  

It all sounded fishy to me ......

[AGareth2]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

It seems that she was told there were no female masseuses available. It is a pity she didn't just leave and walk down the street a few yards to find another similar establishment where she could have got a female masseuse but young backpackers are often naive and have a false sense of security.  It sounds like this was a genuine and brutal rape.  Most of the male masseurs in that area are there for gay tourists.  They may actually be hetero themselves but they know very well that young farang backpacker chicks are not looking for sex with a sleazy male masseur.  They have much better choices and this one was with her boyfriend.  Nevertheless, I am not surprised at the disgusting attitude of Thai police.  Although there are honourable exceptions, the force as a whole is simply depraved and corrupt.  

she is not a young backpacker

[steven100]

59 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Has she lost the plot ...   ?  was she trying to con the police into believing her story   ?

 

When she said she yelled and screamed ' no' to the masseur .... why didn't other staff run into the room to see what was happening  ?    that would be the normal reaction I would think .....  

It all sounded fishy to me ......

can someone answer my question .....When she said she yelled and screamed ' no' to the masseur .... why didn't other staff run into the room to see what was happening  ?    that would be the normal reaction I would think ..... 

[brewsterbudgen]

can someone answer my question .....When she said she yelled and screamed ' no' to the masseur .... why didn't other staff run into the room to see what was happening  ?    that would be the normal reaction I would think ..... 

According to her original posts on the now deleted FB thread, it took place in a room on one of the upper floors, so presumably no one could hear her.

[Jessica Siobhan]

Hi,  Just to clarify a few things (I'm not here for an argument and please do not troll / interrogate me, I have had a horrific few days):

 

I went to the hospital for a post-rape examination

I am taking the course of PEP medicine

I took the morning after pill

I am in constant communication with my Embassy.

 

Please don't believe everything you read on the media, I was not personally asked if any of these accusations were correct before they were published with my name.