Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[transam]

So RR, as you seem to be one of the few here that want's Scot's to leave the union, can you tell me why a small tax paying populous want's to leave...Forget about the oil because that has a life span, forget about shield thumping...Your thoughts...?

[RuamRudy]

So RR, as you seem to be one of the few here that want's Scot's to leave the union, can you tell me why a small tax paying populous want's to leave...Forget about the oil because that has a life span, forget about shield thumping...Your thoughts...?

I don't think that the size of our nation should be relevant. There are plenty examples of successful countries with similar or smaller populations so this clearly has no bearing on Scotland.

As for the actual reason, it is much like any political or philosophical conviction - it is borne from a complicated mix of life experience, conviction, beliefs, interpretation of events and situations, and myriad other influencing factors.

Unfortunately, to try to nail it down into a single paragraph would be impossible.

Can you explain why you think the union is so important?

Another - if the union didn't exist, would we want to create it now with the same rules?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I don't think that the size of our nation should be relevant. There are plenty examples of successful countries with similar or smaller populations so this clearly has no bearing on Scotland.

As for the actual reason, it is much like any political or philosophical conviction - it is borne from a complicated mix of life experience, conviction, beliefs, interpretation of events and situations, and myriad other influencing factors.

Unfortunately, to try to nail it down into a single paragraph would be impossible.

Can you explain why you think the union is so important?

Another - if the union didn't exist, would we want to create it now with the same rules?

What small nations have been successful if no oil came into their equation....?

 

SNP Scots seem to want a union with the Germans, why is that...?

 

The union is important because of our together history and the respect we have from way bigger countries...

 

Rules...Are you saying Mr & Mrs Scotland are treated different to Mr & Mrs English/Welsh now....?

 

 

[RuamRudy]

What small nations have been successful if no oil came into their equation....?
 
SNP Scots seem to want a union with the Germans, why is that...?
 
The union is important because of our together history and the respect we have from way bigger countries...
 
Rules...Are you saying Mr & Mrs Scotland are treated different to Mr & Mrs English/Welsh now....?
 
 

Why would we put aside a key factor of our economic outlook? Volatile it may be, but I see no reason to ignore it. But if you want examples, look to New Zealand, which has a relatively small oil and gas industry. Or maybe check Wikipedia for a list of countries by population.

History would not change because of contemporary politics - independence is not a rejection of that. As for respect, that comes through actions.

Rules - I wouldn't put it in quite such a loaded way as you did, but clearly the Scottish position on Brexit meant naught in the bigger picture. Why would we enter into a partnership where our views would be respected only if they matched those of the larger partner?

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Why would we put aside a key factor of our economic outlook? Volatile it may be, but I see no reason to ignore it. But if you want examples, look to New Zealand, which has a relatively small oil and gas industry. Or maybe check Wikipedia for a list of countries by population.

History would not change because of contemporary politics - independence is not a rejection of that. As for respect, that comes through actions.

Rules - I wouldn't put it in quite such a loaded way as you did, but clearly the Scottish position on Brexit meant naught in the bigger picture. Why would we enter into a partnership where our views would be respected only if they matched those of the larger partner?

NZ has a different climate where they provide stuff from that climate....

 

Brexit was well after Scots Independence vote....

 

You have avoided my question, are Scots folk treated differently to English or Welsh...To make it more clear....NHS, Social Security, unemployment benefits, state pension,even Royal Mail deliveries...

 

I am sure you will tell me where Scots don't get the same...Would like to hear...

 

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I don't think that the size of our nation should be relevant. There are plenty examples of successful countries with similar or smaller populations so this clearly has no bearing on Scotland.

As for the actual reason, it is much like any political or philosophical conviction - it is borne from a complicated mix of life experience, conviction, beliefs, interpretation of events and situations, and myriad other influencing factors.

Unfortunately, to try to nail it down into a single paragraph would be impossible.

Can you explain why you think the union is so important?

Another - if the union didn't exist, would we want to create it now with the same rules?

 

So in other words,you cannot provide an answer to his question.

[RuamRudy]

NZ has a different climate where they provide stuff from that climate....
 
Brexit was well after Scots Independence vote....
 
You have avoided my question, are Scots folk treated differently to English or Welsh...To make it more clear....NHS, Social Security, unemployment benefits, state pension,even Royal Mail deliveries...
 
I am sure you will tell me where Scots don't get the same...Would like to hear...
 
 

And Scotland doesn't produce 'stuff'? The very fact that this is an argument from a fellow Brit is disturbing. Have you actually tried to learn something about the Scottish economy? Do you really think that we don't produce 'stuff'?

What has Brexit got to do with the problem, other than exemplify it?

The NHS is a devolved matter, and it works very well in comparison to yours because NHS England is being fed to the wolves. The next 3 are reserved matters so we have no say in them. The last is a private company. I am not sure what you are getting at, but let's focus on one - Social Security. This week a government we rejected has imposed the Rape Clause on our country despite universal revulsion at it.

As for not getting the same, you are completely missing the point. It is not about getting something different from the rest; it is about getting what we want. We have made it clear - we want to be in Europe. We want a socially responsible government that works to better the lives of everyone who contributes to society, not just those at the top.

England has rejected that as an option for the future and I respect that, but I don't see why Scotland should have to follow where it doesn't want to go.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And Scotland doesn't produce 'stuff'? The very fact that this is an argument from a fellow Brit is disturbing. Have you actually tried to learn something about the Scottish economy? Do you really think that we don't produce 'stuff'?

What has Brexit got to do with the problem, other than exemplify it?

The NHS is a devolved matter, and it works very well in comparison to yours because NHS England is being fed to the wolves. The next 3 are reserved matters so we have no say in them. The last is a private company. I am not sure what you are getting at, but let's focus on one - Social Security. This week a government we rejected has imposed the Rape Clause on our country despite universal revulsion at it.

As for not getting the same, you are completely missing the point. It is not about getting something different from the rest; it is about getting what we want. We have made it clear - we want to be in Europe. We want a socially responsible government that works to better the lives of everyone who contributes to society, not just those at the top.

England has rejected that as an option for the future and I respect that, but I don't see why Scotland should have to follow where it doesn't want to go.

I never said Scotland doesn't produce stuff....Think you should stop twisting..

 

From reading your post you are just a get away from England guy....A Shield basher that does not have clue what will happen if Scotland goes alone...Thankfully YOUR referendum showed that Scots do not want to take YOUR risk..

 

So what other small countries are doing well without oil....?

 

You know, have free NHS, social security, all that stuff...

[Basil B]

On 10/04/2017 at 0:45 PM, RuamRudy said:

Lord Ashcroft suggests that you are wrong:

Lord Ashcroft...  

 

Hardly think that Tax Dodger to be capable of presenting any thing credible...

 

[RuamRudy]

I never said Scotland doesn't produce stuff....Think you should stop twisting..
 
From reading your post you are just a get away from England guy....A Shield basher that does not have clue what will happen if Scotland goes alone...Thankfully YOUR referendum showed that Scots do not want to take YOUR risk..
 
So what other small countries are doing well without oil....?
 
You know, have free NHS, social security, all that stuff...

Then you need to help me understand better - what did you mean when you highlighted the fact that New Zealand produces 'stuff'?

My position is nothing about shields but about a fairer, more equitable society. I think, however, that it is you who is stuck in some romanticised notion of a time long passed.

I take it you haven't bothered to do any research about country sizes? Well how about Austria?

We don't get free NHS, social security etc. We do have tax payers just like England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

[RuamRudy]

Lord Ashcroft...  
 
Hardly think that Tax Dodger to be capable of presenting any thing credible...
 

So what credible source did you use to come to the conclusion that most Scots must be sick of the SNP?

[sandyf]

On 4/9/2017 at 5:48 PM, transam said:

You want to go your separate way it seems....Cut off your head to spite your nose....And folk like you will take Scotland to the pits......If Scots wanted out of the union they would have voted that way, they didn't, even with Scot folk canvassing immigrants to vote against Scots..

 

Deplorable actions....

So you believe that despite the fact that Scotland's GDP per capita would rank it 8th among the EU member states it would be a non viable entity.

 

It is very easy to assume that because people voted to remain in the union that they did not want independence, it couldn't possibly be a case of wanting independence but not on the terms being presented. I understand that it is difficult for many to acknowledge that the Scottish referendum was based on a 650 page white paper rather than verbal rhetoric.

[DILLIGAD]

Then you need to help me understand better - what did you mean when you highlighted the fact that New Zealand produces 'stuff'?

My position is nothing about shields but about a fairer, more equitable society. I think, however, that it is you who is stuck in some romanticised notion of a time long passed.

I take it you haven't bothered to do any research about country sizes? Well how about Austria?

We don't get free NHS, social security etc. We do have tax payers just like England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Do you really feel that Scotland would get a fairer, more equitable society when run from Brussels ?


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[RuamRudy]

23 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Do you really feel that Scotland would get a fairer, more equitable society when run from Brussels ?


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I don't believe that the UK is now run from Brussels so I see no reason to expect an independent Scotland to be so.

[transam]

29 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't believe that the UK is now run from Brussels so I see no reason to expect an independent Scotland to be so.

So what does Brussels do....?

[DILLIGAD]

So what does Brussels do....?

I will resist posting the Pythons/Romans UTube!

 

 

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[DILLIGAD]

I don't believe that the UK is now run from Brussels so I see no reason to expect an independent Scotland to be so.

In that case why do you think Britain wants Brexit?


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[transam]

59 minutes ago, transam said:

So what does Brussels do....?

Hmmmmm, nobody is going to tell me what Brussels does then.....?

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

In that case why do you think Britain wants Brexit?


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Absolutely no idea - I actually know very few Brexiters, and those few I do know all conform to the same type of personality, but I try to avoid stereotyping people so I will resist the urge to suggest that there is one fundamental set of reasons. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Absolutely no idea - I actually know very few Brexiters, and those few I do know all conform to the same type of personality, but I try to avoid stereotyping people so I will resist the urge to suggest that there is one fundamental set of reasons. 

You can tell us, we are I think all grown up folk...

 

Whilst you are here, tell me what Brussels does that Scotland (SNP) wants...?

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, transam said:

So what does Brussels do....?

This is a thread about Scotland, so it makes more sense to point out the powers that are in London, not Brussels - these will be transferred to an independent Scotland. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

This is a thread about Scotland, so it makes more sense to point out the powers that are in London, not Brussels - these will be transferred to an independent Scotland. 

That is a very weak answer.........Try again please..

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

You can tell us, we are I think all grown up folk...

 

Whilst you are here, tell me what Brussels does that Scotland (SNP) wants...?

Having witnessed many a spat on here, I am not sure I am so optimistic. 

 

As I am not a member of the SNP, I cannot answer for them. For me personally, I want full control of Scottish affairs, both domestic and international, to reside in Edinburgh, as simple as that. In what way would Brussels make a power grab from Edinburgh?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

That is a very weak answer.........Try again please..

Not at all - you are making a play to stir up controversy by going off topic. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Having witnessed many a spat on here, I am not sure I am so optimistic. 

 

As I am not a member of the SNP, I cannot answer for them. For me personally, I want full control of Scottish affairs, both domestic and international, to reside in Edinburgh, as simple as that. In what way would Brussels make a power grab from Edinburgh?

I think you don't understand how things work being a member of the EU.............

[transam]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Not at all - you are making a play to stir up controversy by going off topic. 

Typical reply from someone who does not have the answers...

[DILLIGAD]

Absolutely no idea - I actually know very few Brexiters, and those few I do know all conform to the same type of personality, but I try to avoid stereotyping people so I will resist the urge to suggest that there is one fundamental set of reasons. 

I believe the reason U.K. agreed to Brexit is the exact same reason you want to take back control within Scotland. To be able to 'sign-off' our own laws/trade deals and secure our borders from freeloaders rampaging across Europe.

I seriously worry that what you want, will ultimately damage your lovely country & people.

 

 

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[7by7]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

I understand that it is difficult for many to acknowledge that the Scottish referendum was based on a 650 page white paper rather than verbal rhetoric.

 How many Scots do you think actually read and fully considered those 650 pages before voting?

 

How many based their vote upon verbal rhetoric from whichever side they supported?

 

I suspect very few of the former, and a multitude of the latter.

[RuamRudy]

27 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

I believe the reason U.K. agreed to Brexit is the exact same reason you want to take back control within Scotland. To be able to 'sign-off' our own laws/trade deals and secure our borders from freeloaders rampaging across Europe.

I seriously worry that what you want, will ultimately damage your lovely country & people.

 

 

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So would you be in favour of Scottish independence if it was to remain outside the EU?

[deeks]

This may be the main ploy, Now that the UK has left the EU is Scotlands chance to become wholly independent, they have great resources and can go it alone easily.

I wonder if a referendum to join the EU would win once they leave the UK.