Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well it's a glass half full / half empty discussion.

 

Scotland seems to have similar attributes to other small (population) Northern European countries. I don't see why Scotland could not emulate their successes.

 

Yes there would be great upheaval, but I think where there's a will. Tax rises with increased benefits, tax allowances would be the way to go.

 

Maybe SNP should organise weekend tours to Scandinavia to show the numpties what it's all about ?

Well in all honesty this is what us posters probably mean about SNP supporters seeming somewhat naive about economics: a tax rise with increased benefits does not add up to a cut, as it merely maintains a budget imbalance.  Scotland would have to impose quite swingeing austerity measures, more on par with Southern Europe than Norway.

 

Another unintended consequence could be the loss of Shetland Islands which would likely seek to become a UK protectorate like Falkland Islands.

 

It is time for SNP to stop spinning and actually do some groundwork imo.

[7by7]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Tax rises with increased benefits, tax allowances would be the way to go.

 

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all

(George Harrison)

 

Sure to appeal to one very vocal Scottish independence supporter and SNP member, Sean Connery, and entice him home from his tax haven; not!

 

Guaranteed to see a flow of business people, entrepreneurs etc. south of the border at a time when Scotland would need such people most.

[Grouse]

So, I guess I'm in a minority? ?

[SheungWan]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well it's a glass half full / half empty discussion.

 

Scotland seems to have similar attributes to other small (population) Northern European countries. I don't see why Scotland could not emulate their successes.

 

Yes there would be great upheaval, but I think where there's a will. Tax rises with increased benefits, tax allowances would be the way to go.

 

Maybe SNP should organise weekend tours to Scandinavia to show the numpties what it's all about ?

 

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, I guess I'm in a minority? ?

 

You could/should be the next leader of the Labour Party.

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, I guess I'm in a minority? ?

Until  Rudy gets out of bed.

 

But in all honesty it probably isn't much of a rosy picture in any developed economy. This isn't really about the ghastly Tories, or Brexit, or party politics.  In the 70's it was about cheap competition from developing countries.  Now it's about cheap competition from developing androids!

[RuamRudy]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:10 PM, transam said:

What resources...?

You should not confuse your lack of knowledge with confirmation. 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You should not confuse your lack of knowledge with confirmation. 

Confirmation of what...?

[RuamRudy]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:22 PM, citybiker said:

IIRC didn't you recently mention & raise the question 'why Scotland shouldn't be accepted by the Eu'?
(Unless there is a thread & I've missed it)

Not aiming to be pedantic but that could be classed as going off topic...

 

If I recall correctly, it was, once again, trying to correct the falsehood about Scotland being either vetoed by Spain or, unlike every other recent EU applicant, being made to wait until Turkey joined before their application could be dealt with. 

 

On 4/14/2017 at 8:22 PM, citybiker said:

As to Scotland's future, I understand the SG want to run its own affair's, obviously Scottish devolution will never be sufficient however the constant belittlement of Westminster & blocking anything constructive and progressive is beyond tiresome and particularly childish, 

 

What constant belittlement? Would you prefer that an opposition sat on its hands and allowed the government to act as it pleased? Is the function of an opposition not to actively challenge a government where it believes it is failing the electorate? 

 

On 4/14/2017 at 8:22 PM, citybiker said:

it's well known behind the scenes that Sturgeons being pressured by Salmon (unofficially) which explains her independence proposal speech, and attempting to simply interfere with the Brexit timetable deserved the blatant Churchill sign.

Is it? I would love to hear more. I was of the impression that, in attempting to influence the Brexit vote, she was reflecting the will of the Scottish people, those who elected her and her party to represent them. 

 

[RuamRudy]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:16 PM, nontabury said:

Not at all. But it would not be Independence,if they were then to join the EU.

 In fact it would be less independence than what Scotland enjoys now. And let's not forget that the Beurocrats in Brussels intend to increase integration between member states, transferring more and more powers from the member states to Brussels.If you think Scotland's gets a raw deal now,contrary to what is fact. You will find that if  Scotland leaves the UK to join the EU. It will be jumping out of the frying pan,into a very big fire.

Everything you wrote is conjecture filtered through the prism of a Brexit supporter - time will tell which of us is right, but my money is not on you. 

 

As for your most recent sh!tpost, this is actually incorrect. If our representatives cannot be considered as speaking for their electorate, how does TM have the authority to lead us into this Brexit tragedy?

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Confirmation of what...?

Deeks wrote that Scotland had 'great resources and can go it alone easily' to which you pithily replied, 'what resources..?'

 

I was merely pointing out, your lack of knowledge, while sad, is not a reflection on the reality of the Scottish economy. 

[RuamRudy]

On 4/15/2017 at 4:57 PM, nontabury said:

I don't know. But if you go on population and everything else is equal. their ought to be  12 times more English than Scots. Though as I've already pointed out to you, one cabinet consisted of 16 Scots 2 English and 1 Welsh. I think it's called 'The tail wagging the dog'  yet still complaining their underrepresented and exploited by those nasty English people.   

 Who has mentioned 'nasty English people'? Only you, repeatedly. 

 

This is how UKIP won Brexit and the unionists won the last indyref - repeat the same lies constantly until they sticks in peoples' minds and they assume them to be true. Shameful but sadly typical of today's rotten, baseless politics. 

[RuamRudy]

14 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's the incredible debt that Scotland would have to assume that makes misery inevitable for the first decade.  I think it could be upwards of 130% of GDP.  There would have to be massive cuts.  It's not glass half full at all imo.

 

What's more being part of EU would put constraints on how Scotland can deal with its problems, whereas the rest of UK is much more free.

 

Apart from that, yes, without a doubt it can flourish.  But there's no simple way of cutting that debt free, other than default.

How would you calculate that debt, the substance of it being so intangible? 130% of GDP? Where do you get those figures? 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Deeks wrote that Scotland had 'great resources and can go it alone easily' to which you pithily replied, 'what resources..?'

 

I was merely pointing out, your lack of knowledge, while sad, is not a reflection on the reality of the Scottish economy. 

What do you know about my lack of knowledge......?

 

And as for your "sad" comment, well I reckon folk like you who want to break up a union of a small island that the world envies at their achievements over many centuries is sad...In fact you or your ilk haven't got a clue what will happen to the ordinary Scots folk, the SNP hasn't told them anything. Your ilk want to cuddle the Brussels lot who themselves ain't got a clue......GREECE....Next thing might be Turkey, wow, you can look forward to that and the sales of kebabs soaring in Scotland...

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

What do you know about my lack of knowledge......?

 

And as for your "sad" comment, well I reckon folk like you who want to break up a union of a small island that the world envies at their achievements over many centuries is sad...In fact you or your ilk haven't got a clue what will happen to the ordinary Scots folk, the SNP hasn't told them anything. Your ilk want to cuddle the Brussels lot who themselves ain't got a clue......GREECE....Next thing might be Turkey, wow, you can look forward to that and the sales of kebabs soaring in Scotland...

I know only what you write - and I find it sad that you openly know so little about the Scottish economy, yet you post so much about keeping this unknown thing as part of the UK, like sone trophy on the mantle shelf.

 

I find it utterly bemusing that so many brexiters harp on about how the SNP 'has not told them anything' without showing a hint of irony or shame. Would you care to tell us when the details of the Brexit settlement were announced prior to the referendum? 

[nontabury]

We have two Scots on this forum arguing for seperation.

 One lives in Manila, while the other lives in Thailand,this is after spending many years living in Sheffield.  So what do the Scots,who actually live in Scotland think. Well here's one, explaining the meaning of democracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nontabury]

37 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I know only what you write - and I find it sad that you openly know so little about the Scottish economy, yet you post so much about keeping this unknown thing as part of the UK, like sone trophy on the mantle shelf.

 

I find it utterly bemusing that so many brexiters harp on about how the SNP 'has not told them anything' without showing a hint of irony or shame. Would you care to tell us when the details of the Brexit settlement were announced prior to the referendum? 

  

So you accuse Transam of knowing absolutely nothing about the Scottish economy. So let's ask the local council leader, about her expert knowledge of this subject. Surely she can provide clear, thorough and knowledgeable  answers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

You could/should be the next leader of the Labour Party.

What, in Scotland?

[transam]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I know only what you write - and I find it sad that you openly know so little about the Scottish economy, yet you post so much about keeping this unknown thing as part of the UK, like sone trophy on the mantle shelf.

 

I find it utterly bemusing that so many brexiters harp on about how the SNP 'has not told them anything' without showing a hint of irony or shame. Would you care to tell us when the details of the Brexit settlement were announced prior to the referendum? 

Brexit came about because the UK KNOWS what the EU is about because we have had decades of crap thrown at us from Brussels for decades........Do you understand that.....?

 

SNP has said nothing about a planned rosy future nothing, because they don't know, just want to STILL be watched over by Brussels......

SNP wants to give up OUR nuclear deterrent that has kept them under an umbrella for decades....They ain't got a clue...

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

We have two Scots on this forum arguing for seperation.

 One lives in Manila, while the other lives in Thailand,this is after spending many years living in Sheffield.  So what do the Scots,who actually live in Scotland think. Well here's one, explaining the meaning of democracy.

 

 

 

 

 

If there was any doubt about the definition of Numpty, this is a great exemplar 

[RuamRudy]

35 minutes ago, transam said:

Brexit came about because the UK KNOWS what the EU is about because we have had decades of crap thrown at us from Brussels for decades........Do you understand that.....?

 

SNP has said nothing about a planned rosy future nothing, because they don't know, just want to STILL be watched over by Brussels......

SNP wants to give up OUR nuclear deterrent that has kept them under an umbrella for decades....They ain't got a clue...

Spare us the Daily Express diatribe of lies, conjecture and hyperbole. The SNP has provided much more detail for an independent Scotland than any Pro-brexit snake oil salesman like Farage ever provided about the idiocy the larger part of the union was seduced into believing. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

If there was any doubt about the definition of Numpty, this is a great exemplar 

The audience applauded...?

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, transam said:

Brexit came about because the UK KNOWS what the EU is about because we have had decades of crap thrown at us from Brussels for decades........Do you understand that.....?

 

SNP has said nothing about a planned rosy future nothing, because they don't know, just want to STILL be watched over by Brussels......

SNP wants to give up OUR nuclear deterrent that has kept them under an umbrella for decades....They ain't got a clue...

You are correct about V8s but sadly wrong about the EU

 

I am actually strongly in favor of retaining the nuclear deterrent

 

NS has clearly stated that future plans including currency arrangements will be put to the people before the referendum.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, transam said:

The audience applauded...?

Correct! What do you conclude from that?

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Spare us the Daily Express diatribe of lies, conjecture and hyperbole. The SNP has provided much more detail for an independent Scotland than any Pro-brexit snake oil salesman like Farage ever provided about the idiocy the larger part of the union was seduced into believing. 

I don't read The Express.......I don't follow UKIP.......Try again...

[transam]

Just now, Grouse said:

Correct! What do you conclude from that?

 

 

Same as you..

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You are correct about V8s but sadly wrong about the EU

 

I am actually strongly in favor of retaining the nuclear deterrent

 

NS has clearly stated that future plans including currency arrangements will be put to the people before the referendum.

So I am wrong about the EU because you have business interests in the EU....Gawd...

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

We have two Scots on this forum arguing for seperation.

 One lives in Manila, while the other lives in Thailand,this is after spending many years living in Sheffield.  So what do the Scots,who actually live in Scotland think. Well here's one, explaining the meaning of democracy.

 

Until you know the extent of my ties, familial, financial and commercial, with Scotland, I am not sure that you are in any position whatsoever to tell me what I may know about how Scots feel within the union, especially as you only seem to have your fake Facebook friends to tell you what is going on there. 

 

But independence is about what all people of Scotland want, not just the Scots. As these people testify to:

 

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't read The Express.......I don't follow UKIP.......Try again...

Well you sound like you write for it. 

 

As for UKIP, I never said you did - and it appears more and more people are connecting the dots and turning from them. My point still stands - UKIP offered nothing post Brexit .

[transam]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well you sound like you write for it. 

 

As for UKIP, I never said you did - and it appears more and more people are connecting the dots and turning from them. My point still stands - UKIP offered nothing post Brexit .

Not good practice to post your assumptions about folk unless you know stuff...

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

So I am wrong about the EU because you have business interests in the EU....Gawd...

So my opinions are invalid because currently I have no business interests in the EU? I lived in mainland EU countries for many years, was employed there and had a subsidiary in Erlangen, Germany. Gawd indeed!