UK passport renewal

[Sheryl]

Please keep it civil and on topic.

[sjbrownderby]

Given that I applied for the new passport on April 3rd and the new passport was issued on April 7th.......and the fact that my visa stamp had to be transferred into the new passport before I could cross the border out of Thailand there would be a lot of explaining to do if I had used my old passport to travel outside the country after my new passport had been issued. Someone in immigration might pick up on this when the visa stamp was transferred to the new passport, all of the travel dates would be there to see clearly. So even if you could get away with travelling outside the country when you are waiting for your new passport you would not neccessarily know the date your new passport was issued and may find yourself having to answer awkward questions about why you used your old passport after the date your new one had been issued. Is it worth the hassle?

[sanemax]

Cancellation of a UK PP happens when the corner is cut off , until then, it is still valid

[Upnotover]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Cancellation of a UK PP happens when the corner is cut off , until then, it is still valid

No it isn't.

 

"You can’t travel with it after you’ve applied for a new one - but you will be able to keep your existing passport for ID purposes."  (HMPO)

 

It is cancelled in the UK passport database when the renewal application is received.  However this information is not shared outside the UK.

[sjbrownderby]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Cancellation of a UK PP happens when the corner is cut off , until then, it is still valid

Yes, but is the Thai visa and stamp still valid in the old passport after the new passport has been issued? Official advice given is not to use the passport for travel, only for ID purposes as officially you have to carry your passport with you all of the time here.. 

[Mattd]

From what I can gather from the data available on the WWW, then it appears that when an application for a replacement passport is received by the IPS, then the process includes cancelling the passport in the UK passport database, however, the passport appears to remain valid for travel to countries other than UK until such time that you receive the new passport and VFS cut as per the instructions from the UK Passport Office, the way it is cut differs on the type of passport.

This then indicates to all immigration authorities worldwide that the passport is no longer valid, the only country that seemingly can access the UK passport DB is the UK, hence why travelling to the UK could be an issue.

 

Where an application for a replacement passport is submitted, or the accompanying passport is still valid (e.g. because it is full), the document should be cancelled and a note made on the system (see also Passports containing visas, below). Cancellation should be done when the new issue is authorised and not before.

Passports should be cancelled as follows:

E-passports (version 2) – the bottom right corners of: a) the front cover & b) the biodata page must all be cut off, making sure that the right hand side of the Machine Readable Zone (MRZ) has been cut through, except in the case of faulty passports. The back cover of the new style passport must be left uncancelled.

E-passports (version 1)) – the top right corners of: a) the front cover  the back cover & c) the biodata page must all be cut off, making sure that the Machine Readable Zone (MRZ) has been cut through except in the case of faulty passports.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Mattd

[sanemax]

42 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

Yes, but is the Thai visa and stamp still valid in the old passport after the new passport has been issued? Official advice given is not to use the passport for travel, only for ID purposes as officially you have to carry your passport with you all of the time here.. 

Yes, the Visa inside the PP are still valid .

The PP is still valid as well, until the corner is cut off

[sanemax]

46 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

No it isn't.

 

"You can’t travel with it after you’ve applied for a new one - but you will be able to keep your existing passport for ID purposes."  (HMPO)

 

It is cancelled in the UK passport database when the renewal application is received.  However this information is not shared outside the UK.

If no one knows that the PP has been cancelled with in the UK , you will still be able to travel with it whilst abroad , which, I have done so

[sjbrownderby]

37 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, the Visa inside the PP are still valid .

The PP is still valid as well, until the corner is cut off

I think I worded that badly. I should have asked if the multi-entry visa is still legally valid in the old passport for travel outside Thailand if a new passport has been issued.

The fact that you did use your passport for travel outside Thailand does not make it legal. Perhaps you were lucky but things can happen that could put your status in Thailand in jeopardy so therefore your experience should not be taken as advice to others that it is okay to do it.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, sjbrownderby said:

IThe fact that you did use your passport for travel outside Thailand does not make it legal. Perhaps you were lucky but things can happen that could put your status in Thailand in jeopardy so therefore your experience should not be taken as advice to others that it is okay to do it.

  I wasnt illegal, the old PP is only cancelled when the corner is cut off , at Trendy , they ask your written permission whether they can cut the corner off the old one, when giving you the new one .

   Until that corner is cut off, it is still legal a travel document .

[sjbrownderby]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

  I wasnt illegal, the old PP is only cancelled when the corner is cut off , at Trendy , they ask your written permission whether they can cut the corner off the old one, when giving you the new one .

   Until that corner is cut off, it is still legal a travel document .

So why does Her Majesty's Passport Office tell you that: "You can’t travel with it after you’ve applied for a new one - but you will be able to keep your existing passport for ID purposes"  Either Her Majesty's Government website is correct or you are and I am talking in the legal sense here. You got away with it which does not make it legal and so therefore I reiterate that your experience should not be taken as advice to others unless you can prove that you are legally correct.

 

[sanemax]

34 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

So why does Her Majesty's Passport Office tell you that: "You can’t travel with it after you’ve applied for a new one - but you will be able to keep your existing passport for ID purposes"  Either Her Majesty's Government website is correct or you are and I am talking in the legal sense here. You got away with it which does not make it legal and so therefore I reiterate that your experience should not be taken as advice to others unless you can prove that you are legally correct.

 

There was recent thread here on TV, where someone contacted the PP office in the UK and they stated that the old PP is only cancelled when the corner is cut off and its still valid for travel  whilst the new application is in process

  

[Geordie59]

On 20/03/2017 at 2:55 PM, OJAS said:

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/renewing_new/adult

Making your application

You must apply in person. If you’re unable to, someone else can go on your behalf. You must bring photo ID with you.

Bring original supporting documents and a colour photocopy of each one. The original documents will be returned to you.

You must also bring your current passport with you when you apply, and a full colour photocopy of the entire passport (every page including blank pages).

You can’t travel with it after you’ve applied for a new one - but you will be able to keep your existing passport for ID purposes.

You’ll need to book an appointment by email. Include your first name and last name and 3 alternative dates and times. You will receive an email confirming your appointment.

UK Visa Application Centre
The Trendy Office Building,
28th Floor,
Sukhumvit Soi13,
Klongtoey-Nua,
Wattana,
Bangkok
10110,
Thailand

Email: [email protected]

Now if the above post doesn't clarify the issue for you I don't know what will.

As to the glasses issue - why not just take thew things off to avoid risking the photos being refused when they are processed in the UK? You will not get a refund and will have to start the process from scratch.

And to those who say you can apply online - that service is only available if you are in the UK. If you don't believe me go to the government website and start entering your data. After the 4th or 5th step you will get the message above.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Geordie59
Additional data.

[MiKT]

3 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

Given that I applied for the new passport on April 3rd and the new passport was issued on April 7th.......and the fact that my visa stamp had to be transferred into the new passport before I could cross the border out of Thailand there would be a lot of explaining to do if I had used my old passport to travel outside the country after my new passport had been issued. Someone in immigration might pick up on this when the visa stamp was transferred to the new passport, all of the travel dates would be there to see clearly. So even if you could get away with travelling outside the country when you are waiting for your new passport you would not neccessarily know the date your new passport was issued and may find yourself having to answer awkward questions about why you used your old passport after the date your new one had been issued. Is it worth the hassle?

 

I am curious about the transfer of stamps before you can travel out of Thailand?

 

When I have renewed before (more than once) I simply took both passports with me (the old one with the corner cut-off) until it was time to get a new visa and only then was it put into my new passport. Years ago they used to tie the old blue ones together with a red ribbon.

 

This time I had to get a new passport because every page of the old one is filled up with stamps and visa's even though it is only 5 years old and has another 5 years validity to go; so is this a recent innovation or only one particular to specific exit points? Some of the land exits ask for whatever they feel like, regardless of central policies. Or is my memory failing me? I have so many visas from different countries I can't keep track any more.

 

Just to be safe, when I get the new passport back I will pop into the local immigration office, see what they say and post it here.

 

I think from the above posts that you could travel on your old passport whilst waiting for a  new one if it was still date valid during the period you travelled, unless you travelled to the UK  who (presumably) would have you in the computer system. But even then what could they do? They could not stop you going in. Charge you with using a false passport maybe? Or make you queue in the Non-EU line!

Edited May 4, 2017 by MiKT

[sjbrownderby]

31 minutes ago, Geordie59 said:

As to the glasses issue - why not just take thew things off to avoid risking the photos being refused when they are processed in the UK? You will not get a refund and will have to start the process from scratch.

The point I was making was about trusting information from a visa company which is contrary to that shown on a UK government website (and then later confirmed by phone call) and then the visa company arguing that they are correct despite official information to the contrary. How is it possible to trust these companies? I have heard of some visa companies who charge more than 15000 THB for visas which would normally cost 2000THB..................would you trust them?

[Anon999]

On 03/05/2017 at 8:03 PM, MiKT said:

 

Took mine in to Trendy this morning and only 15 mins with no problem, although I printed out the application form and filled it in in black before I went, I did not download the payment form; but they just gave me a new one with no fuss.

 

However, anybody thinking of going should check their local photo copying facilities before they go.

You have to make a colour copy every page of your old passport and I got ripped of for 15Baht a copy in the photo shop on the ground floor as I could not do it before. But some other nationalities were getting charged 20 Baht per copy in the same shop, so not so bad. Although they did take a good photo of me to the regulation grey background colour for a reasonable price.

 

Also I am curious about my existing passport, they did not clip the corner and said they will only do this when the new one is returned in 4 weeks(ish). But I don't suppose they actually inform the Thai immigration that your passport is no longer valid, so any reason why you could not go out to another country and then return before your new passport is ready to pick-up?

 

As all passport data is now online it is accessible worldwide. There is a note that I cannot immediately find that says clearly that your old passport is now only good for ID purposes and you cannot use it to travel out of the country as GOV.UK cancel the old one online when creating a new passport. When scanned at the border it will show up as invalid/cancelled.

[Anon999]

On 20/03/2017 at 1:39 PM, MiKT said:

Just 5 minutes ago I was checking the UK Gov site for passport renewal and your statement  "You can’t wear sunglasses or tinted glasses. You can wear reading glasses but your eyes must show fully through clear lenses without glare or reflections"  is quite correct. This is fully corroborated by the illustrations that show acceptable and non-acceptable photographs. 

 

The Visa company must be misreading the site.

 

But since (unlike a driving licence) it does not matter much you can send photo's of you not wearing specs if that makes it easier.

 

MPR

 

 

 

 

The best strategy is to ignore the passport  renewal companies. They are only interested in how much the next sucker can be relieved of. Their knowledge of the regulations is not good, to put it politely. 

 

Renewing a passport is easy unless you are unfortunately dyslexic. The forms are straightforward and everything is clearly spelt out. What you need to provide is also well covered and easy to follow. And the credit/debit card form is easy to complete as well and clearly states the payment will be taken in GBP and as most will have a UK bank account that should not be difficult.

 

Submitted my renewal application at 15:20 on 26th April and it was back at Suvarnabhumi by midnight on Saturday 6th May with the VFS signing as received at 08:13 on Monday 8th. With the total cost £106.01 it is not expensive, however, the cost of two flights plus taxis at least doubles that amount even using the promo flights. However, quick and efficient with good service by pleasant staff.

 

 

[MiKT]

19 minutes ago, Anon999 said:

As all passport data is now online it is accessible worldwide. There is a note that I cannot immediately find that says clearly that your old passport is now only good for ID purposes and you cannot use it to travel out of the country as GOV.UK cancel the old one online when creating a new passport. When scanned at the border it will show up as invalid/cancelled.

Aha, maybe you are right, but I don't think it gets canceled until they issue the new one in the UK, after they have cashed your money, not when you apply at Trendy.

 

Also I don't think that worldwide databases actually exist, some of the countries I have worked in have stone age immigration systems. Plus I don't actually believe that LOS has a great system; after all, if your name is Boss you can come and go as you please.

 

But its all a bit academic really, if you actually have to travel when waiting for your new passport you can get an emergency document from the Embassy.

 

[Upnotover]

26 minutes ago, Anon999 said:

As all passport data is now online it is accessible worldwide. There is a note that I cannot immediately find that says clearly that your old passport is now only good for ID purposes and you cannot use it to travel out of the country as GOV.UK cancel the old one online when creating a new passport. When scanned at the border it will show up as invalid/cancelled.

Whilst the passport is cancelled in the UK the database this is not shared with the whole world.  So despite it being no longer valid it could still be used to cross borders.  But as it takes only 2 or 3 weeks to replace you would have to be pretty badly organised to need to use the old one.

[Anon999]

3 minutes ago, MiKT said:

Aha, maybe you are right, but I don't think it gets canceled until they issue the new one in the UK, after they have cashed your money, not when you apply at Trendy.

 

Also I don't think that worldwide databases actually exist, some of the countries I have worked in have stone age immigration systems. Plus I don't actually believe that LOS has a great system; after all, if your name is Boss you can come and go as you please.

 

But its all a bit academic really, if you actually have to travel when waiting for your new passport you can get an emergency document from the Embassy.

 

Remember this is the UK passport office for UK citizens, not Thai or other nationalities and that a debit or credit card payment takes just seconds to execute. With the turn round so fast now, in my case 12 days including 2 weekends and MayDay, just 7 working days and I believe that is was received in Newport on 1st May. It would have to be a sudden emergency it needing to travel out of Thailand. Yes correct an emergency travel doc if need be but very expensive too!

[Anon999]

8 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Whilst the passport is cancelled in the UK the database this is not shared with the whole world.  So despite it being no longer valid it could still be used to cross borders.  But as it takes only 2 or 3 weeks to replace you would have to be pretty badly organised to need to use the old one.

Just because the corner is not clipped doesn't mean you could cross borders as the application is entered into the VFS system in Thailand so should be available to immigration and passport control.

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Whilst the passport is cancelled in the UK the database this is not shared with the whole world.  So despite it being no longer valid it could still be used to cross borders.  But as it takes only 2 or 3 weeks to replace you would have to be pretty badly organised to need to use the old one.

That's straight out of the bloke-in-a-pub handbook. A passport is like an ATM card; Once cancelled at head office it cannot be used anywhere electronically.

Edited May 9, 2017 by evadgib

[Upnotover]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That's straight out of the bloke-in-a-pub handbook. Your passport is like an ATM card-Once cancelled at head office it cannot be used anywhere electronically full stop.

whereas the bloke at gov.uk says....

 

"At present we are not sharing our database with the authorities of other countries. "

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

whereas the bloke at gov.uk says....

 

"At present we are not sharing our database with the authorities of other countries. "

A cancelled ppt will flag immediatley. What do you think happens next?

[Upnotover]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

A cancelled ppt will flag immediatley. What do you think happens next?

Not outside of the UK it wont.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

Not outside of the UK it wont.

In that case give it a try...

Edited May 9, 2017 by evadgib

[Upnotover]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

How could it happen IN uk?

? Because the UK has its own database perhaps?

[Psimbo]

Its a shame that a renewal means two trips to Bangkok. The US and other Embassies do outreach programs in Phuket but not the UK.   

 

I was able to renew my other Commonwealth passport by EMSing it each way to the embassy (10 days in total). 

 

Even if the initial application was in person it wouldn't be that difficult to EMS the new passport back. Two trips to Bangkok for a 20 minute turn around is a PITA.

 

As I am stamped in on the other passport at present I wonder if there will be any difficulties renewing my UK passport next year?

 

I will probably have to produce the other passport to show I am here legally. 

 

I may just send the passport back to the UK to renew it from an address there ( not illegal as I'm not stamped in on it).

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Anon999 said:

Just because the corner is not clipped doesn't mean you could cross borders as the application is entered into the VFS system in Thailand so should be available to immigration and passport control.

Do you have a reference to show the VFS and Thai immigration systems are now linked? I must admit to being quite surprised. I have known people to use their old passports for local travel within the region while waiting for the new passport. However, this was a couple of years ago when processing of passport renewals took a lot longer than now.

[jwest10]

On 20/3/2560 at 2:21 PM, meatboy said:

i renewed my uk.passport not long ago,i used keyvisa pattaya,i saw what you read and my previous passport had me wearing glasses.

so i sent photo,s with and without,they will sort it out,oh my new passport has me WEARING GLASSES.

 

Yes mine does not expire for a while and yes Keyvisa comes highly recommended indeed and yes sent me form already. So I shall be using them.