Testosterone Therapy for Weight Loss

[tropo]

16 hours ago, dontoearth said:

      What would a study on 'healthy normal weight young men.' have to do with fat loss for older overweight individuals.  NOTHING!  

You're right - the topic floated off course somewhat.

 

It is worth noting here, in case anyone else is listening and ready to attack... Most of us on this forum are old or getting there LOL. Many of us have subpar testosterone levels and boosting those low numbers will really help with losing fat. Gaining muscle is very beneficial, as one of the nasty "features" of getting old is sarcopenia (loss of muscle tissue). In reality just holding onto muscle is a worthwhile pursuit. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by tropo

[dontoearth]

On 6/8/2017 at 7:39 PM, robblok said:

That is strange what you are talking about is not something I have ever heard about. Only when stopping do people lose muscle.. or if they train less. Strange anyway .. can't discount your experience. I have always held on my muscle with TRT.

     With the theme your mileage may vary, I am 61.  I also used a 10 week time release testosterone formula called Neibedo.  I think the Neibedo kicked in during the two weeks of muscle gain.  Time release drugs are not the exacting mechanism they are advertised to be at all.  My body had completely rejected Androgel not absorbing ANY of it at all.  Secondly,  people in my age group are in a battle to hang on to what they have.   Getting some growth is almost underheard at this age.  I was shocked I got any muscle growth and not at all surprised that it didn't last very long.  And this experiment is all about whether or not testosterone will cut fat deposits and aid in weight loss.  I should know in about 2 weeks if it really had any effect when I go thru another set of measurements.

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     With the theme your mileage may vary, I am 61.  I also used a 10 week time release testosterone formula called Neibedo.  I think the Neibedo kicked in during the two weeks of muscle gain.  Time release drugs are not the exacting mechanism they are advertised to be at all.  My body had completely rejected Androgel not absorbing ANY of it at all.  Secondly,  people in my age group are in a battle to hang on to what they have.   Getting some growth is almost underheard at this age.  I was shocked I got any muscle growth and not at all surprised that it didn't last very long.  And this experiment is all about whether or not testosterone will cut fat deposits and aid in weight loss.  I should know in about 2 weeks if it really had any effect when I go thru another set of measurements.

Do you mean to say you got injected just once ? .. then I do get why you did not get much out of it. Time release for such a long time is not really reliable. 

[dontoearth]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Do you mean to say you got injected just once ? .. then I do get why you did not get much out of it. Time release for such a long time is not really reliable. 

Bayer Pharmaceuticals produces a new product called Nebido  and they swear it is reliable as a shot every 10 weeks.    However, they ask the second shot be given at 6 weeks and my doctor did not do that because he wanted to wait until just before I left Thailand for the year for my second shot.    So I didn't get the follow up at 6 weeks on the initial injection.  So my protocol was not exactly what the manufacture specified.

from the Nebido

Pharmacokinetic studies have shown that Nebido^® maintains testosterone levels within the physiologic range. The recommended administration regime consists of one loading dose 6 weeks after the initial injection followed by intervals of 10 to 14 weeks (usually 3 months The initial short interval (loading dose) i

[black fox]

a friend has just told me of a clinic on soi buachow that will give you an injection of testosterone for about 300 baht or you can take your own and they do it for you, originally started reading up about testosterone cos i wanted to lose weight well ive now lost 11 kilo;s and i feel a iot better but my libido needs to be woken up so i might go and speak to them in the next day or so.

[dontoearth]

          Another update:   I am ready to say the following!  Testosterone is not for weight loss at all.  

          My weight is now the same as when I started the program about 13 weeks ago.  

          On the other hand it has changed the weight composition considerably.    My fat has gone from 27.5% down to 22.7%.  That is very impressive.   My Muscle mass has gone up from 60.6  Kilo to 64.4 kilos.  Again an impressive gain.  Actually almost not believable.  I did get the measurements from a reliable scale.  However, the muscles will shrink right back at my age.  I already saw a 2 week lag in testosterone that caused all the muscle mass to just sort of disappear,  as I was waiting for a new shot.    

           I know some will post nonsense about more training and eating but frankly I am at MAX. I am 61 years old and have my own full-time personal trainer.  I make the gym 5 days a week and stay on a high protein diet.  Those of us in my age group are just not likely to have that much muscle response anymore.  Just the way it is!  I don't see any miracles coming along.  I don't think staying on testosterone shots long term is a good solution.  It might be the only one but still not good.

           So  I won't know for a few months.  Long after I leave thailand, if the fat loss triggered by testosterone last.  If it does then TRT has a place in an over all health program as fat loss is usually the real goal for most people even tho.' they have no way to measure that other than a scale giving them total weight.   I was lucky enough to have a Tanita Body Composition Analyzer available to me when ever I wanted at Olympic Health Club here in Bangkok.  I don't know about Thailand but in the US bodyfat scales are pretty cheap and easy to come bye.  I know people will tsk tsk and insist u have to get DEXA scan at only the most expensive hospitals, but these small scales operate in a close proximity to DEXA and do give you valuable data overtime.  

           This  post will not satisfy body builders or athletes.  It is not intended too.    

          This post is aimed at OVERWEIGHT GRUMPY OLD MEN.  Thanks.

[JSixpack]

On 6/19/2017 at 8:21 AM, dontoearth said:

 I don't think staying on testosterone shots long term is a good solution.  It might be the only one but still not good.

 

Good progress. Now we know what not to do, if we didn't know before. It can't possibly be the "only one."

[moe666]

If your testosterone is down guess what staying on test. is the only option. Remember there is a few more benefits than just losing fat and gaining muscle, has been shown to lower cholesterol, a better mental well being. 

If your Dr. said you would die without it would you not continue to take it

[robblok]

          Another update:   I am ready to say the following!  Testosterone is not for weight loss at all.  
          My weight is now the same as when I started the program about 13 weeks ago.  
          On the other hand it has changed the weight composition considerably.    My fat has gone from 27.5% down to 22.7%.  That is very impressive.   My Muscle mass has gone up from 60.6  Kilo to 64.4 kilos.  Again an impressive gain.  Actually almost not believable.  I did get the measurements from a reliable scale.  However, the muscles will shrink right back at my age.  I already saw a 2 week lag in testosterone that caused all the muscle mass to just sort of disappear,  as I was waiting for a new shot.    
           I know some will post nonsense about more training and eating but frankly I am at MAX. I am 61 years old and have my own full-time personal trainer.  I make the gym 5 days a week and stay on a high protein diet.  Those of us in my age group are just not likely to have that much muscle response anymore.  Just the way it is!  I don't see any miracles coming along.  I don't think staying on testosterone shots long term is a good solution.  It might be the only one but still not good.
           So  I won't know for a few months.  Long after I leave thailand, if the fat loss triggered by testosterone last.  If it does then TRT has a place in an over all health program as fat loss is usually the real goal for most people even tho.' they have no way to measure that other than a scale giving them total weight.   I was lucky enough to have a Tanita Body Composition Analyzer available to me when ever I wanted at Olympic Health Club here in Bangkok.  I don't know about Thailand but in the US bodyfat scales are pretty cheap and easy to come bye.  I know people will tsk tsk and insist u have to get DEXA scan at only the most expensive hospitals, but these small scales operate in a close proximity to DEXA and do give you valuable data overtime.  
           This  post will not satisfy body builders or athletes.  It is not intended too.    
          This post is aimed at OVERWEIGHT GRUMPY OLD MEN.  Thanks.

I find it funny that you talk about weight loss. Its never about weight loss but about fat loss. Losing weight if it muscle is bad because muscle contributes to metabolic rate.

The fact that you saw muscle go away while waiting for a new shot means the 10 week period just is too long. Reason they advertise with 10 weeks is that people hate injections.

I think you had good results. I also think that there will be losses when you stop. Just see how it goes.

You lost loads of fat congrats.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

If your testosterone is down guess what staying on test. is the only option. Remember there is a few more benefits than just losing fat and gaining muscle, has been shown to lower cholesterol, a better mental well being. 

If your Dr. said you would die without it would you not continue to take it

Yes, we may as well go down in style, feeling and looking better. "Long term" is no longer an option for a 61 years old man anyway.

 

Rather, I'd be saying (at age 61), if you don't intend to keep doing it, don't start. Starting and then stopping is worse than not starting at all.

Edited June 20, 2017 by tropo

[dontoearth]

21 hours ago, moe666 said:

If your testosterone is down guess what staying on test. is the only option. Remember there is a few more benefits than just losing fat and gaining muscle, has been shown to lower cholesterol, a better mental well being. 

If your Dr. said you would die without it would you not continue to take it

   You won't die from low testosterone but taking endless high supplements of testosterone increases your risk of prostrate cancer considerably.  So there is a down side to this!  I think in this whole discussion I mentioned the risk of prostrate cancer several times but no one else acknowledged it.  So caution!  

[dontoearth]

19 hours ago, tropo said:

Yes, we may as well go down in style, feeling and looking better. "Long term" is no longer an option for a 61 years old man anyway.

 

Rather, I'd be saying (at age 61), if you don't intend to keep doing it, don't start. Starting and then stopping is worse than not starting at all.

      Why would trying it and then possibly not continuing be worse than not starting at all?

[HidyHo]

1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

   You won't die from low testosterone but taking endless high supplements of testosterone increases your risk of prostrate cancer considerably.  So there is a down side to this!  I think in this whole discussion I mentioned the risk of prostrate cancer several times but no one else acknowledged it.  So caution!  

I think you are being a bit dramatic here.  A person with low testosterone can choose TRT in educated and responsible manner (to lower the risks involved).  Neither TRT nor periodic checkups/test are that costly and it can help to significantly increase the quality of life.

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, HidyHo said:

I think you are being a bit dramatic here.  A person with low testosterone can choose TRT in educated and responsible manner (to lower the risks involved).  Neither TRT nor periodic checkups/test are that costly and it can help to significantly increase the quality of life.

     Throughout the entire post  I have advocated exactly that.   A TRT program with a doctor getting regular test and check-ups.  I was addressing the numerous post here where people advocated doctoring themselves cheaply with shots for a few 100 baht.

      Since the TRT therapy was only approved a few years back no one has any real world data yet on the long term risk.   In the US we have had endless problems with 'safe therapy' causing real damage to the population.   People can point to the fen-fen disaster for weight loss.  

       At the very beginning of this post I linked the prescribing information of the testosterone at the manufacturer's website.    Almost no one reads this stuff so I am pretty sure very few people are making educated and responsible decisions about the program.  

        Anyone who was unaware of the possibility of prostrate cancer surely was not educated or responsible.

       

 

 

 

[tropo]

      Why would trying it and then possibly not continuing be worse than not starting at all?

Exogenous testosterone shuts your own production down .... and fast! This can be difficult to recover from. If you're only trying it out I hope you have a baseline that you can aim for once you're through experimenting. What I said is the truth. It is better to never start than start and then stop.

 

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[tropo]

   You won't die from low testosterone but taking endless high supplements of testosterone increases your risk of prostrate cancer considerably.  So there is a down side to this!  I think in this whole discussion I mentioned the risk of prostrate cancer several times but no one else acknowledged it.  So caution!  

New research dispels that theory. It's old dogma that uninformed doctors hold onto.


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[dontoearth]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

Exogenous testosterone shuts your own production down .... and fast! This can be difficult to recover from. If you're only trying it out I hope you have a baseline that you can aim for once you're through experimenting. What I said is the truth. It is better to never start than start and then stop.

 

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      Unfortunately, my baseline is BELOW the scale.   On the 250-1100 scale I am at 65.    I had already tried Androgel which failed to raise my t-score a single point after 3 and a half months.   So I was looking for TRT quite some time ago.

[tropo]

        Anyone who was unaware of the possibility of prostrate cancer surely was not educated or responsible.
 

I would have said the opposite.


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[dontoearth]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

I would have said the opposite.


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      Well I know I should never trust my doctor for medical advice.    Thanks Tropo.  I would not even have considered the possibility that the prostrate cancer and testosterone link had failed to prove out after my doctors long 'scare' speech.  I guess I should have gone to Dr. Google.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647137/

 

 

[tropo]

      Well I know I should never trust my doctor for medical advice.    Thanks Tropo.  I would not even have considered the possibility that the prostrate cancer and testosterone link had failed to prove out after my doctors long 'scare' speech.  I guess I should have gone to Dr. Google.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647137/
 
 

I remember reading that study years ago. It's a bit like flies on garbage... and concluding they made the garbage. With low testosterone levels you're probably more susceptible to cancer. I think the important thing is to keep levels within the normal human physiological range.


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[tropo]

      Unfortunately, my baseline is BELOW the scale.   On the 250-1100 scale I am at 65.    I had already tried Androgel which failed to raise my t-score a single point after 3 and a half months.   So I was looking for TRT quite some time ago.

I have no doubt you are a good candidate for permanent TRT. I'm 58 and in a similar position. I started with research on the prostate cancer link. I'm out and about right now but will send you some good reading on this later.

 

 

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[DavidSr]

On 21/06/2017 at 10:43 PM, tropo said:

I have no doubt you are a good candidate for permanent TRT. I'm 58 and in a similar position. I started with research on the prostate cancer link. I'm out and about right now but will send you some good reading on this later.

 

 

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Hi, my case is similar to you and I am desperate for some TRT treatment in Thailand, should be travelling next month. I am thinking of buying pharma grade Test E for a cycle and also Andriol for maintenance. Do you know where I can find these two drugs legit in Thailand? I heard even at the pharmacy they sell fake stuff.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, DavidSr said:

Hi, my case is similar to you and I am desperate for some TRT treatment in Thailand, should be travelling next month. I am thinking of buying pharma grade Test E for a cycle and also Andriol for maintenance. Do you know where I can find these two drugs legit in Thailand? I heard even at the pharmacy they sell fake stuff.

Bayer Testoviron Depot (enanthate) is available OTC everywhere. It comes in boxes of 20 x 1ml ampules. Boxes used to retail for about 3000 - 3200 - perhaps they are higher now. Most pharmacies will sell you single ampules. I wouldn't bother with Andriol. It's useless and expensive. I've tried a lot of that in the past and it never got my levels up.

[DavidSr]

56 minutes ago, tropo said:

Bayer Testoviron Depot (enanthate) is available OTC everywhere. It comes in boxes of 20 x 1ml ampules. Boxes used to retail for about 3000 - 3200 - perhaps they are higher now. Most pharmacies will sell you single ampules. I wouldn't bother with Andriol. It's useless and expensive. I've tried a lot of that in the past and it never got my levels up.

 

Thanks for the quick reply tropo. I am familiar with the criticism about Andriol's effectiveness but wanted to try them first before injecting. Is Andriol easy to find like Testoviron?

 

I should be going to Bangkok or Phuket and heard that most pharmacies in the tourist areas sell these drugs fake, is that true? Buying fake stuff is a huge concern for me, specially if I decide to inject after trying Andriol... Last but not least, do you recommend any doctors/clinics/hospital to seek for TRT?

 

Cheers

 

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, DavidSr said:

 

Thanks for the quick reply tropo. I am familiar with the criticism about Andriol's effectiveness but wanted to try them first before injecting. Is Andriol easy to find like Testoviron?

 

I should be going to Bangkok or Phuket and heard that most pharmacies in the tourist areas sell these drugs fake, is that true? Buying fake stuff is a huge concern for me, specially if I decide to inject after trying Andriol... Last but not least, do you recommend any doctors/clinics/hospital to seek for TRT?

 

Cheers

 

 

3

If you want to absolutely sure it's the real deal, then get it from a big pharmacy such as Fascino. The price is about the same. Andriol is easily available most anywhere. Make sure they keep it refrigerated. Andriol has a very short half-life, so you'll need to take it multiple times per day and you'll probably need at least 4 caps to see any difference in your testosterone levels, and they quickly fade away not long after you've taken them.

 

There is a TRT clinic in Pattaya (I think it was discussed earlier on this thread), but it's very expensive.  

Edited June 27, 2017 by tropo

[DavidSr]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

If you want to absolutely sure it's the real deal, then get it from a big pharmacy such as Fascino.  

Just read that Boots is another reliable pharmacy

[tropo]

3 hours ago, DavidSr said:

Just read that Boots is another reliable pharmacy

Yeah, they've probably got it too.

[black fox]

recently i had two testoterone injections at a local clinic so yesterday i went for a check on my levels when i went back this morning they told me the level was 15 and it should be between 3and 8 now im confused about whether its dangerous or not,if anyone can tell me more i would be grateful.

[robblok]

6 hours ago, black fox said:

recently i had two testoterone injections at a local clinic so yesterday i went for a check on my levels when i went back this morning they told me the level was 15 and it should be between 3and 8 now im confused about whether its dangerous or not,if anyone can tell me more i would be grateful.

 

It is not dangerous many bodybuilders have much higher levels then this. Its not good i you keep this up long. It might be that the inject gives the test of too fast. Just check it again later to see if they levels are high all the time. 

[dontoearth]

9 hours ago, black fox said:

recently i had two testoterone injections at a local clinic so yesterday i went for a check on my levels when i went back this morning they told me the level was 15 and it should be between 3and 8 now im confused about whether its dangerous or not,if anyone can tell me more i would be grateful.

Check again in a week or two.  The testosterone moves thru the body to be absorbed.  It will be normal again.  Did you get a measurement BEFORE you took the shot?  You should know your baseline.  If you are not deficient you should not be using this stuff!