Help needed with circuit board

[irlguy1]

 
Other posters have already commented, but do have someone look at the physical meter to verify what capacity it's showing. It should have printing on it that indicates either 5(15) or 15(45).
 
@Crossy has previously posted about the meter sizes that you might find helpful:
 

5(15)

The first number is the calibration current, the second (in the parenthesis) is the maximum rated current. 

Your 5/15 has a maximum current of 15A (about 3300 Watts). 

Your 15/45 has a maximum current of 45A (about 9900 Watts).

and the meters are very robust, but long term overloads above about 150% of rated current may affect accuracy (and you can bet it won't read low).

This is our supply box, should we change our inside board to 50A or does this mean that 63A is ok ?



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[irlguy1]

Apparently the local villagers chipped in and bought a transformer further up but he doesn't want to buy one himself and have every bugger connecting to it as you know they will.

Any idea what a transformer would cost ?
Is it normal for them to stick in a big pole and expect the locals to be able to pay for the transformer?

Is their a way for him not to have to put a transformer on the public pole?

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[carlyai]

I think that if you buy a transformer yourself, then you can stick it on your land, and only use it yourself.
One friend I know in Chonburi did this.
PEA should have the answers.


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[Crossy]

1 hour ago, irlguy1 said:

This is our supply box, should we change our inside board to 50A or does this mean that 63A is ok ?

 

 

 

What is the meter marked as?

 

Are you on a permanent supply (will you need a PEA inspection)?

 

If you are on a 15/45 and don't need an inspection leave it as 63A.

[irlguy1]

 
What is the meter marked as?
 
Are you on a permanent supply (will you need a PEA inspection)?
 
If you are on a 15/45 and don't need an inspection leave it as 63A.

Will need to go up to the place and check. It's a new build house so it will need an inspection. Not on permanent yet still on temporary meter and double charge [emoji35]



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[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Will need to go up to the place and check. It's a new build house so it will need an inspection. Not on permanent yet still on temporary meter and double charge

 

 

 

They'll likely change the meter when you go permanent anyway.

 

Assuming you've applied for a 15/45, to get past the inspection you will need:-

• A 50A incoming breaker (our PEA man insisted that I remove the 63A I had installed).
• A whole house RCD.
• MEN implemented in the Thai manner (yes, even if you don't see multiple grounds), but talk to PEA.
• A 2.4m ground rod.
• Grounded outlets installed.

[outdoorbloke]

On 12/04/2017 at 5:37 AM, wayned said:

If you go to the office, this is a picture of what the distribution should look like (although the neutral wire is normally to top wire on the local distribution).

MEN Power Pole Connection.doc

So if I understand your diagram correctly the earth is on the higher voltage lines not the 220 v distribution is that correct

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, outdoorbloke said:

So if I understand your diagram correctly the earth is on the higher voltage lines not the 220 v distribution is that correct

 

No. If you have MEN the neutral of the 220V wires should be grounded, it's usually the top of the 2 (single-phase) or 4 (3-phase) wires and is often uninsulated.

 

The earth is often shared with the lightning protection tracer which is above the three HV lines.

[irlguy1]

 
They'll likely change the meter when you go permanent anyway.
 
Assuming you've applied for a 15/45, to get past the inspection you will need:-

• A 50A incoming breaker (our PEA man insisted that I remove the 63A I had installed).
• A whole house RCD.
• MEN implemented in the Thai manner (yes, even if you don't see multiple grounds), but talk to PEA.
• A 2.4m ground rod.
• Grounded outlets installed.

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[RichCor]

4 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

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I don't understand why they make the print so small on meters.

[irlguy1]

I don't understand why they make the print so small on meters.

Small space
Small print [emoji106]


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[irlguy1]

So an update, too many issues with the original board and couldn't get fuses or parts for it even from the shop that supplied it so now got a new board with RCD built in.
Everything was installed yesterday but when they turned on the shower all the lights dimmed. They realised today that they hadn't put the copper rod back in the ground and connected it so they did that and it seems ok now.
My question is this,
Should that have happened without the rod and was that the only reason it happened?
Should it all be safe and ok now?
Thanks


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[bankruatsteve]

Short answer: no.  You should re-check the shower's connection - both at the shower and the CU.

[irlguy1]

Short answer: no.  You should re-check the shower's connection - both at the shower and the CU.

 

All connections are good.

Anything else to check ?

All lights and everything else works fine since rod went in ?

Also as I mentioned it wasn't just the shower it was all showers and hot water heater in kitchen so unlikely they all had loose connections ?

 

 

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[Crossy]

Disconnect the rod from the CU (power off first).

 

Off load measure the voltage between the disconnected rod and the neutral and the voltage live - neutral.

Turn on the shower.

Measure again.

Report results here.

 

[bankruatsteve]

Also... are all the showers/heaters on the same circuit or separate?  Have they ever been subjected to flooding or other type of water exposure?  Is the ground part of 3-core cable or run separate?  

[irlguy1]

Disconnect the rod from the CU (power off first).
 
Off load measure the voltage between the disconnected rod and the neutral and the voltage live - neutral.
Turn on the shower.
Measure again.
Report results here.
 

Ok will tell him to do that.

In the meantime we went to PEA and asked about MEN and showed them a diagram and they hadn't a frickin clue [emoji20][emoji20]

So I have taken more pictures and yes I am aware they might be useless but it's the best I can get. Maybe one of you will see something. What I noticed was that on some of the poles they have a trunking with a cable in it from top of pole to the ground but I can't see high enough to know if it's a bare wire or what it's actually connected to and from.
Here are the pics maybe they will help.



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[Crossy]

That could well be a MEN dropper.

 

[wayned]

Mine runs down a yellow conduit the same way.  The question is is it connected to both the "static wire" on the top of the pole and the distributed neutral, or only the static wire.

[irlguy1]

Mine runs down a yellow conduit the same way.  The question is is it connected to both the "static wire" on the top of the pole and the distributed neutral, or only the static wire.

God only knows because the frickin PEA sure don't [emoji20][emoji20]
So don't know what to do now.
No idea how to set up the board


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[irlguy1]

Mine runs down a yellow conduit the same way.  The question is is it connected to both the "static wire" on the top of the pole and the distributed neutral, or only the static wire.

No clue
Hence my problems [emoji20]


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[irlguy1]

That could well be a MEN dropper.
 

Could [emoji24][emoji24]


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[irlguy1]

Also... are all the showers/heaters on the same circuit or separate?  Have they ever been subjected to flooding or other type of water exposure?  Is the ground part of 3-core cable or run separate?  

 

 

Brand new install so no flooding all new units and board.

 

Even when just one shower was turned on the lights dimmed but now the earth rod is connected and in the dirt everyone is fine no issues.

So just don't know if all ok or not.

 

Turns out dad in law has no volt meter so can't do as crossy suggested [emoji24]

Things are so much easier in Ireland [emoji17]

I just want a proper supply and not have him blow himself up.

 

Do u mean the ground from the box to the rod? That's just a separate wire as far as I know.

 

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[Crossy]

2 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

Could

 

 

 

OK "Is"

 

Without being able to see where the top goes it's impossible to be certain. Do you have a long lens or binoculars?

 

[Crossy]

That things improved when the rod was connected indicates a LOT of diverted neutral current.

 

This does not bode well for the integrity of the "proper" neutral, there's a high resistance somewhere which could be a problem soon.

 

[RichCor]

5 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

 

6 hours ago, wayned said:

Mine runs down a yellow conduit the same way.  The question is is it connected to both the "static wire" on the top of the pole and the distributed neutral, or only the static wire.

God only knows because the frickin PEA sure don't
So don't know what to do now.
No idea how to set up the board

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I see TWO Ground Wires running parallel to each other, to separate Earth Ground links.

 

But the question still stands, what points are they physically connected to on the top of the pole.  

 

My guess, that would need to be confirmed visually by someone there, would be that the Bare Wire is connected to the 'static wire' on the top of the pole (providing direct static and lightning protections) and the black coated wire running into the (not yet faded) Yellow PVC and connected to an Earth Ground Rod at the bottom is connecting to the 220v NEUTRAL line mid pole to provide one of may MEN bonded bridge connections.  Just can't make out from the image where either actually terminates up top the pole  :-(

 

Also, what @Crossy said in the above post...  If that's what's actually happening with the Neutral current, then whoa!! 

[irlguy1]

That things improved when the rod was connected indicates a LOT of diverted neutral current.
 
This does not bode well for the integrity of the "proper" neutral, there's a high resistance somewhere which could be a problem soon.
 

New update [emoji20]
The lights are still dimming when the shower or the hot water tap or the water pump goes on.
Strangely the air cons or anything else with high power usage have no effect.
I am stumped and all the local sparkies are clueless. One came over and said the house was too far from the main supply.
Sounds bull to me as everything else works no problem.
Really appreciate all the help guys but don't know what to do now.
Will find my binoculars tomorrow and check the outside poles again but MEN or no MEN would it cause the issues with the lights?
Is that a possibility or are these now two different problems??


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[Crossy]

A flicker of the lights when a big load comes on is nothing to worry about.

 

I doubt the installation is unsafe.

 

With no test gear there's not really much more you can do, if you are a long way from the transformer the supply may already be on the limit.

 

A simple multimeter will cost a few hundred Baht and could reveal exactly what's going on.

[wayned]

II have two of these plugged into outlets in my house as my voltage fluctuates a lot and some very strange things happen.  Available from Lazada, Aliexpress and eBay and maybe locally but never looked.

 

 

[wayned]

Picture didn't paste, try again in different format.

 

voltmeter.doc

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Crossy
Fixed the image :)