U.S. Navy strike group to move toward Korean peninsula - U.S. official

[kowpot]

5 hours ago, baboon said:

How? You just mentioned they are isolationist. The only aggression they show is towards those who won't let them be.

I know of no one that has attacked N. Korea.  Even during the Korean war,  the North crossed the line first.

[kowpot]

5 hours ago, baboon said:

Just like Western countries, then.

How many foreign countries have the DPRK attacked?

1  S. Korea

[baboon]

1 minute ago, kowpot said:

1  S. Korea

South Korea cannot be counted as a foreign country. 

[kowpot]

Just now, baboon said:

South Korea cannot be counted as a foreign country. 

Really?  What would you call them then?   The U.S. calls Canada and Mexico foreign countries.

[sirineou]

Just now, boomerangutang said:

It's hard to say.  for comparison, Zimbabwe isn't a nuke country, but the rest of the world has somewhat/somehow accepted Mugabe being in charge.  Heck, Britain's Queen even honored him with a State visit.

the operative word here would be non-aligned,

I am sure if Mugabe became a big enough problem , attempts would have being made to remove him.

Of course that's not to say they would be successful. Many non aligned nations have successfully resisted "regime change" , case and point Castro in Cuba, tough at a great cost to the Cuban people. 

Of-course there are other variables involved, but IMO having a few Nukes does not hurt. 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, kowpot said:

Really?  What would you call them then?   The U.S. calls Canada and Mexico foreign countries.

I would call them one half of a country called Korea, populated by Koreans who speak Korean and divided by foreign powers.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

I would call them one half of a country called Korea, populated by Koreans who speak Korean and divided by foreign powers.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Quote

The Korean War (in South Korean Hangul: 한국전쟁; Hanja: 韓國戰爭; RR: Hanguk Jeonjaeng, "Korean War"; in North Korean Chosŏn'gŭl: 조국해방전쟁; Hancha: 祖國解放戰爭; MR: Choguk haebang chǒnjaeng, "Fatherland Liberation War"; 25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953)^[36][38] began when North Korea invaded South Korea.^[39][40] The United Nations, with the United States as the principal force, came to the aid of South Korea. China came to the aid of North Korea, and the Soviet Union gave some assistance.

 

The mess was created when Korea was divided up.  But the invasion was done by the North.  Supported by the USSR and China.

[baboon]

16 minutes ago, kowpot said:

I know of no one that has attacked N. Korea.  Even during the Korean war,  the North crossed the line first.

What does it matter who did? It was Koreans striving to reunite Korea.

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, kowpot said:

Really?  What would you call them then?   The U.S. calls Canada and Mexico foreign countries.

I would call them Partitioned.

North and south Korea are no more foreign countries as East and west Germany were.

North and south Korea are one country partitioned by the liberating countries after WW2 , The North was liberated by the Russians and a communist system was imposed on them, the south my the Americans with a Capitalist system.

 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

 

The mess was created when Korea was divided up.  But the invasion was done by the North.  Supported by the USSR and China.

A country cannot invade itself. Sure, you know as well as I do it was something of a proxy war, but this is not the fault of the Korean people. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

What does it matter who did? It was Koreans striving to reunite Korea.

Absolutely right, everything else is semantics based on perspective.

I am sure the North Koreans did not consider them selves as invaders but as liberators, as would the South Koreans if they ever attempted a military solution to the problem. I am also sure that if the North did not posses Nukes the south with US help wouldd have attempted a military solution.

[baboon]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Absolutely right, everything else is semantics based on perspective.

I am sure the North Koreans did not consider them selves as invaders but as liberators, as would the South Koreans if they ever attempted a military solution to the problem. I am also sure that if the North did not posses Nukes the south with US help wouldd have attempted a military solution.

...and so here we are now in 2017. One of the powers instrumental in causing this huge mess in the first place, threatening people whose fault this whole sorry situation was not.

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

Bombing the crap out of a country and destroying its infrastructure tends to cause just a tiny bit of suffering in itself.

What infrastructure?

 

We are talking about North Korea here. The vast majority of the populace are suffering and have been for decades.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

...and so here we are now in 2017. One of the powers instrumental in causing this huge mess in the first place, threatening people whose fault this whole sorry situation was not.

The same situation existed  between West and East Germany and was only  resolved by the fall of the soviet Union. In this situation the North is propped up  by China ,

I dont believe it could survive on it's own.

As China is evolving in to  Hybrid  Capital/Communism  the current political situation in North Korea becomes unsustainable IMO. and would be advisable for them to start implementing a system comparable to China.

Perhaps start with economic development zones in N. Korea.  With the possession of Nuclear weapons, an internal implosion could be vary dangerous for the area.

 

 

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The same situation existed  between West and East Germany and was only  resolved by the fall of the soviet Union. In this situation the North is propped up  by China ,

I dont believe it could survive on it's own.

As China is evolving in to  Hybrid  Capital/Communism  the current political situation in North Korea becomes unsustainable IMO. and would be advisable for them to start implementing a system comparable to China.

Perhaps start with economic development zones in N. Korea.  With the possession of Nuclear weapons, an internal implosion could be vary dangerous for the area.

 

 

They already do have economic development zones:

http://38north.org/2014/12/rfrank121614/

[baboon]

16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What infrastructure?

 

We are talking about North Korea here. The vast majority of the populace are suffering and have been for decades.

What infrastructure? Well, the housing they live in, their places of work, shops, airports, power and sewage treatment plants, you know, that kind of stuff. Or do you think they all live under a huge sheet of western donated tarpaulin and eat one another?

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

They already do have economic development zones:

http://38north.org/2014/12/rfrank121614/

Perhaps then we should help foster those ,  Perhaps incited of sending war ships we should be sending cargo ships.

 

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Perhaps then we should help foster those ,  Perhaps incited of sending war ships we should be sending cargo ships.

 

Hmm. But where are the profits for the military industrialists and the distraction factor for politicians rather closer to home who are busy making a complete backside of their / our nations?

No, far better for them to turn the average decent human beings against one another like desperate rats. And we thank them for it.

[kowpot]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I would call them one half of a country called Korea, populated by Koreans who speak Korean and divided by foreign powers.

I would guess you haven't spent a lot of time in Korea.  Try even going to N. Korea. Let me know how easy it was to get a visa. Oh, and don't leave your handler. That will land you in a N. Korean prison. 

 Having spent a long time in S. Korea. I will tell you. The majority of the Koreans don't think the same way you do. Sure, they would all love for there to be 1 Korea. But, they are not willing to give up the good life to get there.

Edited April 9, 2017 by kowpot

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, kowpot said:

I would guess you haven't spent a lot of time in Korea.  Try even going to N. Korea. Let me know how easy it was to get a visa. Oh, and don't leave your handler. That will land you in a N. Korean prison. 

 Having spent a long time in S. Korea. I will tell you. The majority of the Koreans don't think the same way you do. Sure, they would all love for there to be 1 Korea. But, they are not willing to give up the good life to get there.

I have been to the DPRK and obtaining the visa was not difficult at all.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

I would call them one half of a country called Korea, populated by Koreans who speak Korean and divided by foreign powers.

                  I don't agree.  Things change over time.   There are majorities of populaces in both countries who want a united Korea.  The main impediment is the N.Korean leader and his minions at the top. The Kims are such control freaks that they're impossible to negotiate with.  

 

                   A united Korea would be somewhat like when the two Germanies united.  It was obvious to everyone at that time that W.Germany would be dominant because it dominated in every viable way.  Similarly, if the 2 Koreas united, it would have to be S.Korea which dominated the reconciliation.  Kim doesn't want to lose any of his absolute power, so as long as there's a deranged boy-king in charge there, it won't happen. 

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                  I don't agree.  Things change over time.   There are majorities of populaces in both countries who want a united Korea.  The main impediment is the N.Korean leader and his minions at the top. The Kims are such control freaks that they're impossible to negotiate with.  

 

                   A united Korea would be somewhat like when the two Germanies united.  It was obvious to everyone at that time that W.Germany would be dominant because it dominated in every viable way.  Similarly, if the 2 Koreas united, it would have to be S.Korea which dominated the reconciliation.  Kim doesn't want to lose any of his absolute power, so as long as there's a deranged boy-king in charge there, it won't happen. 

The post you are quoting me on was in response to an assertion that the DPRK had attacked a foreign country called South Korea. The Korean War began after two years (if I remember correctly) after the division of the country into the two camps. I don't imagine all that much had changed in two years...

[55Jay]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

What does it matter who did? It was Koreans striving to reunite Korea.

If the S. Koreans were so willing, why was a military invasion necessary? 

 

N. Korea was dealt a shitty hand after WW2.  But they went with what they got with Russia.  S. Korea went with what they got with the Americans.  S. Korea has done well.  N. Korea has not. 

 

Best direct that anger and resent where it belongs.  Russia.  And China.  Not the Americans.  Or S. Korea.

Edited April 9, 2017 by 55Jay

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

If the S. Koreans were so willing, why was a military invasion necessary? 

 

N. Korea was dealt a shitty hand after WW2.  But they went with what they got with Russia.  S. Korea went with what they got with the Americans.  S. Korea has done well.  N. Korea has not. 

 

Best direct that anger and resent where it belongs.  Russia.  And China.  Not the Americans.  Or S. Korea.

No, the anger should be directed against ALL the outside powers that used the country and people of Korea for their own ends.

There was no invasion. Again; a country can not invade itself.

[mamypoko]

Header should read   U.S. Navy strike group to move toward China   check

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

If the S. Koreans were so willing, why was a military invasion necessary? 

 

N. Korea was dealt a shitty hand after WW2.  But they went with what they got with Russia.  S. Korea went with what they got with the Americans.  S. Korea has done well.  N. Korea has not. 

 

Best direct that anger and resent where it belongs.  Russia.  And China.  Not the Americans.  Or S. Korea.

Who said the South Koreans were willing?

Both sides want to unite the country , the argument is , under which system.

North Korea (or at least its leaders) want to unite Korea under a Communist system , and South Koreans want to Unite the country under a Capitalist system.  

[baboon]

8 minutes ago, mamypoko said:

Header should read   U.S. Navy strike group to move toward China   check

Now that is plain frightening. Jesus!

[mamypoko]

36 minutes ago, baboon said:

Now that is plain frightening. Jesus!

Fear not, good sir. It's just a move between one of two rational actors. The US is giving China some cover to maneuver.  

[tonray]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Who said the South Koreans were willing?

Both sides want to unite the country , the argument is , under which system.

North Korea (or at least its leaders) want to unite Korea under a Communist system , and South Koreans want to Unite the country under a Capitalist system.  

 

Hmmm...let's see, do I want to eat grass or a steaming bowl of BibimBap when I'm hungry ? I think the choice is pretty clear

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

 

Hmmm...let's see, do I want to eat grass or a steaming bowl of BibimBap when I'm hungry ? I think the choice is pretty clear

Grass , right?