Thai Neighbour Offer Property Ownership With Less Conditions

[Thaising]

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia on Wednesday said it will allow foreign nationals to buy residential properties worth more than 250,000 ringgit (2.5 million baht - 71,429 dollars) without approval in order to attract investors.

Under current rules, foreigners who want to invest in Malaysia's property market have to get approval from the government's Economic Planning Unit for properties valued at 250,000 ringgit and above.

"The new step is aimed at drawing foreign investors to buy residential units in the high-end category and is expected to bring about positive changes to the property and construction sectors," said a statement from the prime minister's office.

"The increase of investments in the property sector by foreign investors will also increase the inflow of foreign currency exchange," it added.

The ruling will be effective from Thursday, 21st December, and will not have any conditions on the usage of the property or the limit of units to be purchased, it said.

–

AFP

[jumnien]

This is a very smart move and will no doubt attract a few foreign investors. I doubt this will have any impact on people who are contemplating a move to Thailand. The reason for this is because quite frankly Malaysia is not Thailand and Malays are not Thais. Nothing negative about Malaysia meant here. It's just that in spite of all the difficulties of living in tropical Thailand, we do get to live with the Thai people, some of the most gentle and kind people on earth! Thailand is a very special place and I, for one, consider it a privilege to live here.

[Gary A]

I did spend quite a lot of time on Malaysia expat boards and looking at the second home scheme. If you are interested in Malaysia, I suggest you spend some time researching the plan. If you do not have the income or money to stay in Thailand, I assure you you won't be able to afford Malaysia. Also, if you buy a home in Mayaysia, look carefully at the conditions. If you decide to sell the home and leave, you may get some unpleasant surprises. I think I'll stay here.

[JonnieB]

I think most of us know that Malaysia has a nice attractive expat scheme, i.e. 5-year residency visas, relatively easy and secure land/house ownership rights for foreigners, good infrustructure, and good law and order. However, as anyone who has visited the country knows, it is a little bland, i.e. boring. Nice beaches, good food, good transport links (internal and external) but the sanook factor is much lower than Thailand. The increasing Islamisazion of the country surly bodes for even less sanook in the future (just ask that farang married couple vacationing in Lankawi recently who were raided by the religious police to verify that they were in fact married!!)

No for now, as long as the Thais will have us, I much prefer Thailand to Malaysia to live...visit Malaysia ok...but to live, I'll take a pass.

Edited December 22, 2006 by JonnieB

[Filer]

I think most of us know that Malaysia has a nice attractive expat scheme, i.e. 5-year residency visas, relatively easy and secure land/house ownership rights for foreigners, good infrustructure, and good law and order. However, as anyone who has visited the country knows, it is a little bland, i.e. boring. Nice beaches, good food, good transport links (internal and external) but the sanook factor is much lower than Thailand. The increasing Islamisazion of the country surly bodes for even less sanook in the future (just ask that farang married couple vacationing in Lankawi recently who were raided by the religious police to verify that they were in fact married!!)

No for now, as long as the Thais will have us, I much prefer Thailand to Malaysia to live...visit Malaysia ok...but to live, I'll take a pass.

My wife and I too have been looking again at Malaysia and its retirement package, since the Thai land/property ownership issues arose this last year and helped to unsettle our plans to retire permanently in Thailand this coming summer. We've known both countries well for some 25 years and although Malaysia increasingly has the better retirement package, on paper, the country simply lacks the special charm that makes Thailand a wonderful place to live in long term. So I agree with all the comments posted under this topic and it's great to see that others have come to the same conclusion as we have.

[johnnyk]

I've only had one visit to Malaysia and while I liked it on balance, it seemed to lack the easy going charm and sanuk found in Thailand.

Yes, I think it wins in the "checking boxes on a form" competition but there's more to life than a checklist.

As far as checklists go, Denmark is prolly heaven on earth...until you die of boredom after a year.

Edited December 31, 2006 by johnnyk

[astral]

There is considerable dis-satisfaction in the expat community here in Malaysia over the MM2H scheme

because the government keep moving the goal posts.

Read carfefully before you invest.

[thaigene2]

While I agree (more or less) with all of the above, this is good news in the sense that we could be seeing the begininng of Southeast Asian competition for expat residents - note the word 'residents' as opposed to 'visitors' as Thailand likes to refer to us.

IMHO, you cannot separate the visa issue from the property/condo ownership issue. Buyers are more savvy to the fact they must have a secure visa before buying anything. Maybe the Governments now realise they don't hold as many cards as they thought?

[astral]

note the word 'residents' as opposed to 'visitors' as Thailand likes to refer to us.

It is still only a word.

All they promise is a yearly visa for 5 years,

NOT residence...............

[thaihome]

While I agree (more or less) with all of the above, this is good news in the sense that we could be seeing the begininng of Southeast Asian competition for expat residents - note the word 'residents' as opposed to 'visitors' as Thailand likes to refer to us.

IMHO, you cannot separate the visa issue from the property/condo ownership issue. Buyers are more savvy to the fact they must have a secure visa before buying anything. Maybe the Governments now realise they don't hold as many cards as they thought?

Any competion Thailand would win without trying (which they are doing already). Strongly suggest that anyone considering or promoting Malaysia as an alternative to Thailand to live there for a year or so. I think the post above say it well.

There is also the small problem of the impending race war.

TH

[thaigene2]

I agree with both Astral and Thaihome (above). Whilst Thaihome has his eggs in the Thai property futures, his point is valid that the nearest competition isn't that great. And yes Astral - it is still not residency. But my point is that things are moving -- as competition heats/hots up and that must be seen as moving in the right direction -- e.g. eventual residency permits (whatever -10, 15 years) for people who want to retire here or can guarantee monthly income. Good for Thailand, more security for the expat who will surely be more confident in opening the wallet - and thus good for Thaihome and his other property buddies that talk up this forum.

[astral]

Residence in Malaysia is possible, but in the days Mahattir, it was within the gift of the PM............

Not sure now.

[JonnieB]

As most agree that even with all the paperwork hassles, Thailand still comes up on top of the heap when it comes to places to "retire" to in SE Asia. Indonesia and Philippines are fun to visit but to live...not nearly as attractive as the amenities and lifestyle available in Thailand. Philippines has a retirement scheme something similar to Malaysia's and on paper more attractive than Thailand's. Singapore is an interesting posibility but the cost of living there is about the same as farangland (but you get farang level service and quality...for good and bad) but if we wanted to spend that kinda money, we would stay home or retire to the Costa del Sol or someplace like that.

I can't put my finger on it about Malaysia...on paper it sounds great and a visit there is always nice but after a few days, it just gets so darn bland and boring. People are nice, things are clean and pretty efficient but there is no spice to living there. Also, at least to my experience, after you get outside KL and the capitol corridor, even though Malaysia on paper is much more advanced and richer than Thailand, many parts of the country seem very underdeveloped and downright rundown.

While here in Thailand things seem to get better and better (with some steps backwards along the way). In my home in Pattaya, new restaurants , shops, and clubs are always opening. There is a plethera of high-end and moderate places to eat and houses/condos to rent/buy. In a couple years, the shopping and entertainment options will really explode with the opening of the SFX-Major shopping center and the Central Pattaya Beach Mall. Both will have the usualy mix of department stores, restos, shops, theatres, and bowling alleys, and who knows what else. Pattaya will truely be on the map then.

We can maybe look forward to some easing-up of the property and visa issues in the future. I don't have any specific information but seems to me that something will eventually have to be done. If for no other reason, havingn all of us report every 90-days and renewing every 360 will some day get to be almost physically impossible.

[quiksilva]

From the BBC today:

Incidents may mar Malaysia's tourism bid

By Jonathan Kent

BBC News, Kuala Lumpur

Malaysia celebrates 50 years of independence this year and to mark the occasion it has launched Visit Malaysia Year 2007.

Visit Malaysia 2007 tourism banner in Kuala Lumpur

Malaysia is hoping for more than 20 million visitors this year

The country's palm-fringed beaches, affordably priced hotels, sprawling shopping malls, fantastic food and wildlife already make it one of Asia's premier destinations.

And this year its tourism authorities hope a big push will propel visitor numbers towards an astonishing target of 20 million.

But following an incident late last year, American Wayne Wright is far from convinced by the promise of Malaysian hospitality and the claim of its tourism slogan that it is truly Asia.

"I was walking in Chinatown," he told the BBC, "when a gentleman in very scruffy type clothes, nothing that you would associate with police or anyone in authority, walked up to me and asked me, "Can I see your passport?"."

Fearing a scam, Mr Wright refused and tried to move away.

"At that point he essentially lunged at me, grabbed me, put handcuffs on me really tightly and called for a few other people out in the crowd," he explained.

Mr Wright, a serving US Navy lawyer, says he protested that he was a US citizen and told the men who had grabbed him that his passport was in his hotel room, a matter of a few hundred meters away.

He was taken, shackled, through Chinatown and put into a caged truck used by the Malaysian immigration department.

'Worst experience'

There he met a second American, who had also been grabbed by men who refused to show any identification, Yahweh Passim Nam.

It became abundantly clear to Mr Wright and Mr Nam they had more in common than their nationality. Both they and every one of the 30 or so other people arrested in the same raid were black.

Wayne Wright

This was probably the worst experience I have had in my life

Wayne Wright

"At this time I'm knowing this is racial profiling, beyond a shadow of a doubt," said Mr Nam, an ex-US Navy serviceman and now a multi media engineer living in Vancouver, Canada.

"This is definitely some screwed up mission by some... militant group, trying to get Africans to take us somewhere," he said, adding that he feared for his life.

They were taken to an immigration detention centre where for almost 24 hours they say they were fed only bread and water, not allowed to go to the toilet and refused permission to contact the US embassy.

"I was treated inhumanely," said Mr Nam. "I felt like a dog, I felt like something worse than a dog."

Mr Wright agrees. "Honestly this was probably the worst experience I have had in my life," he said.

Both say that, when they were finally freed, immigration officers treated the matter as a joke, something that incensed them.

Morality patrol

Malaysia's Head of Immigration Enforcement Ishak Mohamad was approached by the BBC for comment, but was unavailable.

Nor would the prime minister's department comment, although a senior official privately cast doubt on the accounts of the two men.

Yahweh Passim Nam

Both Mr Nam (pictured) and Mr Wright had legitimate tourist visas

However not only do they appear to bear one another out, but they are also backed up by the US embassy, which confirmed it provided consular assistance to have them released from custody. No charges were filed against the men.

The incident does not appear to be isolated.

Several Africans approached on the streets of Kuala Lumpur by the BBC over the issue reported facing discrimination in Malaysia, whether it be people refusing to sit next to them on public transport, taxis refusing to stop for them through to harassment by police and immigration officers.

Nor have recent problems been confined to people of African origin.

In October, a couple in their 60s from the US state of Alaska were woken at 0200 with threats to break down the door of their rented holiday apartment on Langkawi Island.

It was an Islamic morality patrol, which under Malaysian law has widespread powers over Muslims' behaviour.

"When I opened the door I saw six men, in my face, yelling at me that they want to inspect the apartment, that I'm Muslim and that they're coming in," Randal Barnhart said.

He told the men he was not Muslim and refused to let them enter, but they persisted.

"They started yelling, 'We want to see your woman, we want to see your woman'," an angry Mr Barnhart recalled.

"So I asked Carole, who was just wearing a sarong to stand back 15 feet in the light so they could see that she is a white woman - my wife of 42 years."

Perhentian beach, Malaysia

Malaysia is renowned for its beautiful beaches and countryside

The intruders refused to leave without seeing a marriage certificate and were only persuaded to go after being shown the couple's passports.

Mr Barnhart says his wife suffered a nervous breakdown and returned to the US and he is currently pursuing legal action against the religious department.

But rather than disciplining the officers - who apparently broke the law by carrying out the raid without regular police in tow - local politicians defended them saying Mrs Barnhart was mistaken for a local Muslim because she liked to wear a sarong.

That assertion has been greeted with derision by some in Malaysia.

'Regrettable'

Malaysia's Tourism Minister Adnan Mansor defended the immigration department, pointing out that Malaysia has problems with illegal migration.

"Sorry to say especially there's a lot of Africans, black people, who come to our country and overstay," he said.

map

"What they did was just trying to clean up some of these people who've overstayed in our country."

Both Wayne Wright and Yahweh Passim Nam had not overstayed their welcome. They had legitimate tourist visas.

The minister says he is keen to repair the damage.

"Give us a chance and let us correct this," Mr Mansor said.

He has apologised to the Barnharts and acknowledges Malaysia has a problem with petty officials who readily abuse their power - a problem he says the government will address by re-educating them.

But it is not the kind of news the country needs on the cusp of its big tourism year.

Asta, the American Society of Travel Agents, described the incidents as regrettable.

"Authorities have an obligation to educate the local populace about the importance of tourism and their role and to be vigilant and protective of anti-tourist incidents," a spokesman told the BBC.

And more worrying still for Malaysians is that such incidents are merely symptomatic of a wider issue - public servants who are increasingly resistant to government control.

Newspaper columnist Dina Zaman says some Malaysians are looking to Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi to take a tougher line.

"They don't think he's authoritative enough," she believes.

"You need someone to actually sit down and say, 'Look you can't do this, you can't do that'. And yes, he's a nice man but with... the crime rate, all these things... it just makes you wonder whether he's too nice."

Millions of people will doubtless visit Malaysia during 2007 and most will have a very happy time.

But until Malaysia's bureaucracy wants to make sure they all do, some would-be visitors may be deciding to holiday elsewhere.

Hmm Malaysia? No thanks!