Dipterocarp Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 21 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: This says more about society nowadays. Everyone has such a highly-strung sense of entitlement and readiness to take offence that they can't tolerate the slightest inconvenience - even when offered adequate compensation. What is wrong with them? I would have just shrugged and got off. True. I was on a United flight recently where a man boarded dropping eff bombs at a Cabin Attendant and there were plenty of older people and children around looking shocked. He was a gold member upset that he did not get an upgrade. First Class was sold out. I saw the whole thing from 3 rows away. Then a pilot came out he shouted at the pilot "why don't you have me taken off?". He was taken off without a fight but screaming abuse the whole time. About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 53 minutes ago, klauskunkel said: assault Further, very possible that children were watching this whole episode up close. And the undoubtedly shocked children learn that this activity happens at home to people who have paid for the seat and have legit. tickets, but suddenly they (older couple) get forcably dragged off the flight by staff who have the image and actions of thugs. Terrifying lesson for the kids and not forgotten ever. I really wonder if airlines can / are allowed to do this? If they can then a serious rework of regulations is urgently needed. I hope united get seriously punished, at least several million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipterocarp Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The airline will only suffer bad publicity, no legal penalties. They did not brutalize the passenger that was done by police and airport security not agents of the airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said: True. I was on a United flight recently where a man boarded dropping eff bombs at a Cabin Attendant and there were plenty of older people and children around looking shocked. He was a gold member upset that he did not get an upgrade. First Class was sold out. I saw the whole thing from 3 rows away. Then a pilot came out he shouted at the pilot "why don't you have me taken off?". He was taken off without a fight but screaming abuse the whole time. About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second. "About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second." My guess is that your drunk. You say 'he is certainly not in his right mind'. What evidence do you have to write that? You have no reason doubt he is a doctor. You say he was violent - can't see any evidence whatever of that. You write as if passengers have no rights. Just wondering what your reaction would have been if suddenly your the one 'selected' by the airline to be forcably removed? Seems to me that if nobody volunteered then the airline should just make alternate arrangement for the transportation of their crew, no matter how complex it may have been. Maybe set up seats on two connecting flights with vacant seats to get the crew to the final destination, etc. I hope united get seriously sued for millions and punished seriously by the appropriate transport agencies. And they need to review what staff members must take charge of such situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabhand Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Psimbo said: Wrong- 3 did (apparently including his wife). The behavior of the airline was crapp- they passengers were being removed in order to shift crew to another location.Whatever happened to the CUSTOMER comes first? 'Security staff' behaving like Nazis but this seems to be the norm under Homeland Security- blink and you are getting a kicking or being arrested. This is the paranoid state they live in now. He should have one heck of a civil suit and in this case I hope he takes United to the cleaners. Nope, no volunteers. Seemingly all chosen at random based on a set criteria. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/10/united-airlines-video-passenger-removed-overbooked-flight The airline said in a statement that the flight was overbooked, and that no passengers agreed to voluntarily give up their seats. United said airline representatives chose four passengers to leave the plane at random based on ticket class, frequent flier status and check-in time, and that one man selected refused to leave his seat. Edited April 11, 2017 by dabhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipterocarp Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) "About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second." My guess is that your drunk. You say 'he is certainly not in his right mind'. What evidence do you have to write that? You have no reason doubt he is a doctor. You say he was violent - can't see any evidence whatever of that. You write as if passengers have no rights. Just wondering what your reaction would have been if suddenly your the one 'selected' by the airline to be forcably removed? Seems to me that if nobody volunteered then the airline should just make alternate arrangement for the transportation of their crew, no matter how complex it may have been. Maybe set up seats on two connecting flights with vacant seats to get the crew to the final destination, etc. I hope united get seriously sued for millions and punished seriously by the appropriate transport agencies. And they need to review what staff members must take charge of such situations. .......You made many mischaracterizations of my post. I did not say the man was violent, I said he resisted. If you sit limply in your seat while lifted by three grown men one will suffer no injury. We will see if he is really a practicing Doctor in the coming days if this story does not die out. Most of them are pretty intelligent, smart enough to not resist law enforcement. If I was asked to leave Private Property I would do so without escalating an incident to involve a Physical Conflict with anyone, let alone law enforcement officials. The only rights air passengers have are outlined in the fine print called a contract of carriage, various international treaties, and also some legislation passed in the States which covers delays. Overbooking is allowed unfortunately and if asked to leave an aircraft by flight Crew you must follow their orders, it is a Federal Offense to do otherwise. And airline crew are often required to ride in the back to operate another flight, have duty time regulations, and there are many schedule changes. How would you feel if your flight was cancelled because your Flight Crew was stuck in Chicago overnight, because passengers who were legally asked to deplane refused to do so? Edited April 11, 2017 by Dipterocarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Dipterocarp said: You made many mischaracterizations of my post. I did not say the man was violent, I sad he resisted. We will see if he is really a practicing Doctor in the coming days if this story does not die out. Most of them are pretty intelligent, smart enough to not resist law enforcement. Perhaps you should slowly read your own posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I think that next time, the plane should just sit there and the police should talk to him until he decides to obey. Let's see how people react to a plane that just doesn't go anywhere. I have a feeling they will be much more incensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Credo said: I think that next time, the plane should just sit there and the police should talk to him until he decides to obey. Let's see how people react to a plane that just doesn't go anywhere. I have a feeling they will be much more incensed. Or perhaps the other passengers will support his rights to have his refusal 'to obey' respected and even more so since he is an older man. And perhaps many other passengers might well be thinking that the airline should have made alternative arranegements in regard to transporting their crew. A buddy just mentioned to me that many airlines have private agreements to transport each others crew in certain circumstances for low or no cost. I've had this happen to me as a passenger (repeat passenger) on a Cathay Pacific flight that was aborted during taxiing for take off. We were given several choices: refund, fly next flight (about 4 hours later same day) or next day with Cathay or change to another airline which was departing within the next 20 or 30 minutes. I chose to change to the other airline, all ticketing fixed very easily and quickly and I asked the ticketing staff 'are you sure no further charges?'. The answer was 'no, this is a no cost swapping arrangement between certain airlines'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 From what I have read the airlines have the right to deny boarding but have no right to remove a passenger once boarded and seated apart from a passenger presenting a security or health risk. The man had every right once boarded and seated to remain in the seat. It is little different than a store mistakenly selling a product for the wrong price and then demanding the product back after accepting the payment. The police had no right to interfere on behalf of a corporation involved in what, in my mind, had become a contractual dispute once the passenger was boarded and seated. I do hope this guy takes both United Airlines and whatever agency employed the security officer to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipterocarp Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Wrong, passengers can be removed for any operational necessity. If any of the officers who engaged in brutality were rent-a-cops (Private Security Guards, usually minimum wage people without the social skills for fast food.) They have no authority to remove a person by force. UA Lawyers will argue they are airport employees, not agents of the Airline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavidovsky Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 " Another video shows him, still disheveled from the altercation, returning to the cabin, running to the back of the plane and repeating: "I have to go home." The guy was evidently a bit of a nutcase. If you're asked to leave the plane for whatever reason, you can't just refuse, like a child. That in itself is reason enough for security to forcibly remove him. This idiot should be prosecuted for refusing to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkerry Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, dabhand said: Apparently United only offered compensation up to $800 for passengers who agreed to be bumped. Yet they could have gone up to $1,350 per the regs. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/10/united-airlines-incident-rules-airlines-bumping-passengers-overselling/ If the passenger will be delayed more than two hours - or four hours for international flights - the airline must pay him four times the one-way fare, up to $1,350. Quite possible that they would have convinced the required four volunteers at that level of compo. Could be a rather expensive mistake of the person who was only prepared to go up to $800. This is likely to cost United a huge multiple of the $2,200 saving. In which case they should have offered $1,350 immediately - bearing in mind it was their problem, not the paying passengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 40 minutes ago, Credo said: I think that next time, the plane should just sit there and the police should talk to him until he decides to obey. Let's see how people react to a plane that just doesn't go anywhere. I have a feeling they will be much more incensed. No. I'm sure the next time United knows to offer Round the world tickets or similar until one person takes the offer to leave the plane. Now they know it's the much cheaper way out. Who knows, maybe there is new United CEO soon. Their company doesn't seem to be internally in healthy state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, oilinki said: No. I'm sure the next time United knows to offer Round the world tickets or similar until one person takes the offer to leave the plane. Now they know it's the much cheaper way out. Who knows, maybe there is new United CEO soon. Their company doesn't seem to be internally in healthy state. Its likely that they only needed to offer a generous reward to passengers to leave the 'plane and wait for the next flight. Instead they started off offering a paltry sum (and then gradually trying to increase it) before deciding to forcibly evict paying passengers..... They screwed up badly, hence the outrage expressed by other passengers and most of those who have seen/read about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) On lighter side. When PR and customer care disasters like this happens, the internets show it's creativity. Twitter has been on fire since yesterday. Edited April 11, 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmj Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I think he will do okay out of it now, USA is the land of the lawsuit, he will have lawyers falling over themselves to take the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavidovsky Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: They screwed up badly, hence the outrage expressed by other passengers and most of those who have seen/read about it. The guy absolutely refused to get off the plane, what were they to do? Outrage means nothing nowadays, it's the usual knee-jerk reaction of social justice warriors who have no grasp of the full facts of a situation. And of course the media are always keen to build up a scandal, and you've all fallen for it. The guy proved himself to be a nutcase and should have been dragged off. I support the airline on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipterocarp Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 56 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: " Another video shows him, still disheveled from the altercation, returning to the cabin, running to the back of the plane and repeating: "I have to go home." The guy was evidently a bit of a nutcase. If you're asked to leave the plane for whatever reason, you can't just refuse, like a child. That in itself is reason enough for security to forcibly remove him. This idiot should be prosecuted for refusing to comply. Yes this is how he reportedly looked retuning the airplane. Not in his right mind, I have seen many times drunks acting like this. If he really thinks he is right he should be headed to the Hospital and calling lawyers, not wandering back onto the aircraft bloodied and beaten. Not rational behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkerry Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: The guy absolutely refused to get off the plane, what were they to do? Maybe made a better offer in the first place so another passenger would have genuinely volunteered to change their travel plans before it escalated the way it did... Maybe organise your company staffing better so you have a back-up plan that doesn't involve dragging a fare paying passenger from their seat... It's reported another passenger did offer to change their flight for $1600 and was laughed at by an airline manager... I guess that's looking a bargain now. Renting a chauffeur driven limo or even a Gulf Stream for the two pilots and two cabin crew this was about would have worked out cheaper, considering the worldwide PR disaster this has become for United. It's even the lead story on Thai TV news moments ago. Just two days ago there was this story about Delta who it would seem are more switched on than United. Why Delta Airlines paid me 11000 not to fly to Florida this weekend Edited April 11, 2017 by kkerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkerry Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said: Yes this is how he reportedly looked retuning the airplane. Not in his right mind, I have seen many times drunks acting like this. If he really thinks he is right he should be headed to the Hospital and calling lawyers, not wandering back onto the aircraft bloodied and beaten. Not rational behavior. Not rational behavior... or delayed concussion more likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I just read this on yahoo news, it's worse than the report here. People walked off the plane and it was delayed 3 hours so they will have to pay more compensation. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video-shows-guards-dragging-passenger-off-united-flight-132930349.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said: Yes this is how he reportedly looked retuning the airplane. Not in his right mind, I have seen many times drunks acting like this. If he really thinks he is right he should be headed to the Hospital and calling lawyers, not wandering back onto the aircraft bloodied and beaten. Not rational behavior. I'm a wimp generally, but if I'd been treated this way (and left in this state) its more than likely that even I would be angry enough to go back and make the point even more obvious! Edit - Weirdly (.....), calling a lawyer wouldn't be my immediate reaction to being treated so badly and injured this way - but apparently it would be for some. Edited April 11, 2017 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavidovsky Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, kkerry said: Maybe made a better offer in the first place so another passenger would have genuinely volunteered to change their travel plans before it escalated the way it did... Nobody else would get off. I don't know how far they upped the compensation, but I certainly would have taken it. The entire plane was full of selfish <deleted>. In this situation the airline had to randomly choose someone to get off as they were entitled to do. Passengers don't have any say in this situation (unfortunately maybe, but that's the rule). In an airplane situation, discipline is necessary. This guy was exhibiting unacceptable behaviour, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesquite Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Psimbo said: Wrong- 3 did (apparently including his wife). The behavior of the airline was crapp- they passengers were being removed in order to shift crew to another location.Whatever happened to the CUSTOMER comes first? 'Security staff' behaving like Nazis but this seems to be the norm under Homeland Security- blink and you are getting a kicking or being arrested. This is the paranoid state they live in now. He should have one heck of a civil suit and in this case I hope he takes United to the cleaners. Actually, I'm right. No one volunteered for that last seat, did they? Edited April 11, 2017 by mesquite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: Nobody else would get off. I don't know how far they upped the compensation, but I certainly would have taken it. The entire plane was full of selfish <deleted>. In this situation the airline had to randomly choose someone to get off as they were entitled to do. Passengers don't have any say in this situation (unfortunately maybe, but that's the rule). In an airplane situation, discipline is necessary. This guy was exhibiting unacceptable behaviour, end of story. As others have said, if they had offered cash instead of vouchers there probably would have been a queue to leave the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: The guy absolutely refused to get off the plane, what were they to do? Outrage means nothing nowadays, it's the usual knee-jerk reaction of social justice warriors who have no grasp of the full facts of a situation. And of course the media are always keen to build up a scandal, and you've all fallen for it. The guy proved himself to be a nutcase and should have been dragged off. I support the airline on this. The flight was not overbooked/oversold and thus the use of federal law on involuntary denied boarding is not justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PremiumLane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dipterocarp said: True. I was on a United flight recently where a man boarded dropping eff bombs at a Cabin Attendant and there were plenty of older people and children around looking shocked. He was a gold member upset that he did not get an upgrade. First Class was sold out. I saw the whole thing from 3 rows away. Then a pilot came out he shouted at the pilot "why don't you have me taken off?". He was taken off without a fight but screaming abuse the whole time. About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second. Nice bit of victim blaming here, I bet you wouldn't be saying this if it was you they were dragging down an aisle of a plane. They shouldn't have done it full stop. If no one wants to get off, then tough titties,, suck it up and arrange for your staff to go another way. Edited April 11, 2017 by PremiumLane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said: Nobody else would get off. I don't know how far they upped the compensation, but I certainly would have taken it. The entire plane was full of selfish <deleted>. In this situation the airline had to randomly choose someone to get off as they were entitled to do. Passengers don't have any say in this situation (unfortunately maybe, but that's the rule). In an airplane situation, discipline is necessary. This guy was exhibiting unacceptable behaviour, end of story. You're pretty much alone in the belief that the passenger was to blame. But now you've said "end of story", its obvious that we're all wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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