Who knows about moringa ('marum' in Thai)?

[boomerangutang]

My daughter has a plant nursery in California, and raves about the many benefits of Moringa.  I looked it up online;

 

mindbodygreen.com/0-22401/10-powerful-benefits-of-drinking-moringa-every-day.html

 

but I don't know anything about it first-hand.

 

In Thai, I believe it's called 'marum' and apparently the plant hails from Asia.

 

I've been meaning to go to local plant nurseries in Chiang Rai and ask if they have some plants I can put in my garden.

 

 

 

 

[otherstuff1957]

This is how you spell it in Thai:  

 

มะรุม

 

But I don't know anything else about it!

[grollies]

Marum, ours grew 10ft in 4 months. Neighbour gave us a 4ft stick which I planted about 1ft deep. Very prolific.

 

Beans taste bitter with a sweet aftertaste.

 

Pods cooked with gaeng som. Split pods and scrape out insides. Quite tasty and supposed to be very good for you.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Very useful plant. Looks pretty scrappy but the young leaves, pods, seeds, bark and roots all have uses. Very high protein levels. Check out moringa powder on Ebay, $20 and up per kg. Oil from the seeds (40%) good for cooking etc. On and on.....Drought tolerant, fast growing....

[boomerangutang]

 Not the prettiest little tree in the world, but....

 

               Does it grow big?  I've got a big tree (among many other types, on 9 rai) which has pods which look like that shown in the photo.  I'll take a closer look and see whether the leaves match.   The tree's pods are fuzzy outside.  I have to do more up-close research.  

 

                   Another odd plant, called jatropha, is a small tree with seeds with unusual qualities.  About 11 yrs ago, I got interested in it, and got a bunch of seeds for free from Chiang Rai gov't ag office.  They germinated like gangbusters, and then I had 500 trees.  They're medium-small, fast-growing, rubbery stalks.   The fruit is inedible.  It's the size of a date and, like a date, has one long seed inside.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_curcas

 

                    Apparently, the oil from the seed can be used, unprocessed, as diesel fuel - particularly for larger motors.  I haven't yet tried it, but saw a brief video where guys were pouring into a Mercedes diesel engine.  I found out later that it's not very practical to grow commercially, because the seeds ripen intermittedly and require a good bit of manual harvesting.     

[IsaanAussie]

Two different plants. Moringa and Jatropia. Moringa is the one I am interested in, so to deal with jatropia, it is grown in India as a hedging plant and the oil can be used for diesel engines. Two issues practically, heat value as a fuel and processing yield for the effort expended. It has a lower drought tolerance. For me, forget it. Thai government ran trials to support the alternate fuels or biofuels program, never heard much, seemed to die a natural death.

Moringa is different. This plant is being used to counteract malnutrition in Africa, there is a sizeable investment here in growing the plant, harvesting and drying the leaves, and then producing powdered products. 

It grows into a lanky tree if left alone, but can be intensively planted and harvested every month. Basically cut off about 6 inches off the ground and the leaves stripped off. As an animal feed (veg. protein) source is as good as it gets.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Remember the diesel engine inventor (Mr/Prof (whatever) Diesel), used peanut oil as his fuel. Any vegetable oil can be used. The secret is, if you squeeze it enough, it goes BANG! The issues are what other stuff is in the oil, ie. sulphurous compounds and gases etc.. which will burn the backside out of your tractor really quickly. 

The obvious point is at less than 30 baht a litre, diesel fuel is a hard game to match.

[grollies]

Biofuels - the single, most stupid idea mankind has ever come up with, bar none.

[IsaanAussie]

Can't say I agree. In concept being self-sufficient is my ideal situation. But fuel was a low proportion of my farming cost when we had a herd of pigs to feed. So it has never been a primary issue.

The real issue is to minimise the external input costs when there is little you can do about farm gate prices. For us, inputs are at retail, outputs at wholesale, the age old farming dilemma for a small holding. 

If I can expel oil from a crop I grow to use for cooking or for fuel, why not? The real cost saving is in using the seed meal after the oil is removed as feed for the animals rather than soy or corn.

A big circular game of value adding.

[boomerangutang]

11 hours ago, grollies said:

Biofuels - the single, most stupid idea mankind has ever come up with, bar none.

                         What an odd opinion.  Biofuels replace fossil fuels.  In case you didn't notice, fossil fuels are a finite resource.  There ain't any more of the stuff being made.   Biofuels can be produced from plants or manure or rotting fruit.  Years ago, I spoke at length with a young Brit who had been traveling to many towns in China to promote methane production on a village/home level.  

 

                 One thing that stuck in my mind, during our conversation, was that large fleshy fruits are actually better, pound for pound, for producing methane than manure.  I thought of the many jack fruits I've seen lying on the ground, unharvested, in my region, when I hike through abandoned orchards.

 

                      A methane plant was being built in my region by a pig farmer.  He had two giant concrete vats, built in the ground.  Yet, his neighbors wouldn't allow him to finish the project, claiming they were afraid the 'digesters' would explode.   Of course they won't explode, but I wouldn't be surprised if the neighbors got that foolish idea from fossil fuel sellers - spreading rumors, in order to maintain their stranglehold on selling fossil fuels.  

 

                Similar to alcohol drink merchants not wanting pot to be legalized (spooked by competition), therefore demonizing pot.

[grollies]

27 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                         What an odd opinion.  Biofuels replace fossil fuels.  In case you didn't notice, fossil fuels are a finite resource.  There ain't any more of the stuff being made.   Biofuels can be produced from plants or manure or rotting fruit.  Years ago, I spoke at length with a young Brit who had been traveling to many towns in China to promote methane production on a village/home level.  

 

                 One thing that stuck in my mind, during our conversation, was that large fleshy fruits are actually better, pound for pound, for producing methane than manure.  I thought of the many jack fruits I've seen lying on the ground, unharvested, in my region, when I hike through abandoned orchards.

 

                      A methane plant was being built in my region by a pig farmer.  He had two giant concrete vats, built in the ground.  Yet, his neighbors wouldn't allow him to finish the project, claiming they were afraid the 'digesters' would explode.   Of course they won't explode, but I wouldn't be surprised if the neighbors got that foolish idea from fossil fuel sellers - spreading rumors, in order to maintain their stranglehold on selling fossil fuels.  

 

                Similar to alcohol drink merchants not wanting pot to be legalized (spooked by competition), therefore demonizing pot.

Methane biodigesters producing gas from animal and rotting vegetable waste is a different subject entirely. I have been unvolved in the construction of several in the UK.

 

Clearing forest and jungle to grow palm oil as additives to diesel fuels is what I am alluding to, as was @IsaanAussie

 

I'm not going into detail here but I was also involved in the construction of the UK's first biofuel import pipeline at Stanlow.

 

It got me to examine in detail the effects of biodiesel. Aside from the loss of habitat and wildlife, CO2 produced from clearing, growing and transporting, adding 10% bio to diesel reduces engine efficiency by 12%.

 

10 years ago the UK Government were promoting the use of diesel engines in vehicles. See where that got us today with NO2 emmissions.

 

PS. I think @IsaanAussie would expend more energy extracting enough oil from marum than he would save in diesel costs.

 

IMHO

Edited April 12, 2017 by grollies

[IsaanAussie]

True of many single purpose operations such as expelling oil. However if the oil is collected as the oilseeds are ground into meal then there are two value added outputs. Yes, the oil yield obtained with a meat grinder is much lower than with a "real" expeller. The oil is more valuable for cooking and the meal as animal feed. In the case of moringa the leaves have amino acids that pigs and chickens cannot produce digestively. These acids reduce crude protein requirements and hence the feed costs. 

I look for opportunities to value add at each step and eliminate all wastes. Byproducts become inputs for something else. 

[grollies]

12 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Can't say I agree. In concept being self-sufficient is my ideal situation. But fuel was a low proportion of my farming cost when we had a herd of pigs to feed. So it has never been a primary issue.

The real issue is to minimise the external input costs when there is little you can do about farm gate prices. For us, inputs are at retail, outputs at wholesale, the age old farming dilemma for a small holding. 

If I can expel oil from a crop I grow to use for cooking or for fuel, why not? The real cost saving is in using the seed meal after the oil is removed as feed for the animals rather than soy or corn.

A big circular game of value adding.

Yeah, I get what you mean about self-sufficiency. Have you looked at any of the late King's projects?

 

I'm not sure if you would make any savings extracting oils for fuels against buying-in diesel. What about collecting used vegetable oil from restaurants?

[grollies]

Just now, IsaanAussie said:

True of many single purpose operations such as expelling oil. However if the oil is collected as the oilseeds are ground into meal then there are two value added outputs. Yes, the oil yield obtained with a meat grinder is much lower than with a "real" expeller. The oil is more valuable for cooking and the meal as animal feed. In the case of moringa the leaves have amino acids that pigs and chickens cannot produce digestively. These acids reduce crude protein requirements and hence the feed costs. 

I look for opportunities to value add at each step and eliminate all wastes. Byproducts become inputs for something else. 

Totally agree. New thread?

[IsaanAussie]

2 minutes ago, grollies said:

Yeah, I get what you mean about self-sufficiency. Have you looked at any of the late King's projects?

 

I'm not sure if you would make any savings extracting oils for fuels against buying-in diesel. What about collecting used vegetable oil from restaurants?

I have been an avid disciple of the King's principles for years. Straight out common sense for self sufficiency for small holding farming in this part of Thailand. 

I know people who process used oil but I doubt they really save much. Plus I don't like the idea of having drums of methanol laying around. Too tempting for the local "petrol headed" whiskey drinkers.

Generally speaking the oil industry has been making obscene profits for ages. They always seem to drop the prices to just under the cost of production of any alternate source. Strange isn't it, timing always spot on, how do they know?

[grollies]

6 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

I have been an avid disciple of the King's principles for years. Straight out common sense for self sufficiency for small holding farming in this part of Thailand. 

Nice one. Me too although only really studied him for the last year after moving here full time.

 

Me and a couple of locals are experimenting with intercropping rubber, home brew fertilizer, one even started small aquaponics set up with catfish, wormery, etc. All good fun.

[boomerangutang]

I heard Air NZ is using a 50/50 mix of bio (from Jatropha) and fossil fuel for their jets.   Also, Burma has embarked on a countrywide program of getting as much bio-fuel from jatropha as possible.  Not sure how well it's working.   I've seen jatropha growing along regular town roads there.

 

Meanwhile, if anyone wants jatropha seeds, contact me.  I'll send some for free, by mail.

[IsaanAussie]

9 minutes ago, grollies said:

Nice one. Me too although only really studied him for the last year after moving here full time.

 

Me and a couple of locals are experimenting with intercropping rubber, home brew fertilizer, one even started small aquaponics set up with catfish, wormery, etc. All good fun.

Tell me more! What are inter-cropping under the rubber trees? Are the trees fully grown (closed canopy)? I'm into fertilisers and composts and have worm beds and mushrooms. What are you guys doing?

[rice555]

On April 11, 2017 at 3:42 PM, grollies said:

Marum, ours grew 10ft in 4 months. Neighbour gave us a 4ft stick which I planted about 1ft deep. Very prolific.

 

Beans taste bitter with a sweet aftertaste.

 

Pods cooked with gaeng som. Split pods and scrape out insides. Quite tasty and supposed to be very good for you.

 

Hello All, these two are a little over two years old from seed and the tree that the seed came from with out leaves,

with vines growing up the trunk, this tree is over 20'+.

rice555

[grollies]

30 minutes ago, rice555 said:

Hello All, these two are a little over two years old from seed and the tree that the seed came from with out leaves,

with vines growing up the trunk, this tree is over 20'+.

rice555

You eat the pods?

[IsaanAussie]

I am collecting seeds from trees like you guys have. Pods, bark and roots from these, past their prime.

The real gold is in the young leaves. For these, seedlings grow intensively  (10x10 inch spacing) for 6 weeks, then take a brush-cutter to them and lop them off about 6" from the ground. Strip the leaves, dry and grind them to powder. Repeat every month. They are legumous trees, N fixers got it? Something to do with rice paddies during the dry? Hell yes.

[grollies]

3 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

I am collecting seeds from trees like you guys have. Pods, bark and roots from these, past their prime.

The real gold is in the young leaves. For these, seedlings grow intensively  (10x10 inch spacing) for 6 weeks, then take a brush-cutter to them and lop them off about 6" from the ground. Strip the leaves, dry and grind them to powder. Repeat every month. They are legumous trees, N fixers got it? Something to do with rice paddies during the dry? Hell yes.

Got it.

[carlyai]

I'm not up with what you guys are talking about, but someone mentioned China and a backpacker and fruit. I worked and lived in small part of China for over a year, and everyone burns coal. Without coal they would die.

Everyone in my village , in Isaan, burns firewood and wood, compressed and turned into coal.

Don't talk about rotting food and backpackers if you want to be credible.

Fossil fuels are good, at the moment

 

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