Residence Certificates - Chiang Mai

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Go to room #7 just next to the copy shop with all your documents, turn them in and pay 500 baht. 3-4 minutes at most.  Come back the next afternoon to pick up your RC. Less than one minute.

 

I believe that the person who must sign the RC is not on the property, which is the reason for any delay.

 

 

As I said above you may be able to use an Agent close to your locale who can do it very quickly!

But if all else fails the G4 at Prom is, I understand, your other quickest option.

[NancyL]

Hubby and I retired to Thailand with our eyes wide open.  Our first involvement here was in the 1970s, We came to Chiang Mai when their idea of entertaining the tourists was to take them up dirt roads to the sad hilltribe villages in the Mae Sa region, then denuded due to poppy production where we looked at elderly women wearing neck rings selling handicrafts and looked at emaciated native elderly  stoned men passed out on the side of the roads,  (Hubby had been to Thailand before me, courtesy of the U.S. gov't)

 

We've returned a few times in the interim but not for more than a few weeks on various tourist or volunteer type actives.

 

We returned to Chiang Mai province in 2006 to find that much has changed.  We spent a month deciding if it was a good place to retire and decide it was.  We had no idea that the Immigration office here was like no other elsewhere in Thailand.  

 

We did our research.  We know the shortcomings of Thailand.  I just want the Chiang Mai Immigration office to be playing by the same rules, on the same page, on par with the other immigration offices in the other provinces in Thailand.  That's it.  That's all I'm asking.  If they would simply stop exploiting the elderly I would stay here.

 

 I decided to help the elderly expats with limited income when I came here.  Those who were OK until they had medical problems.  That's part of how Lanna Care Net came about.  From that I became the president of Chiang Mai Expats Club and I heard the stories of newly arrived retirees and how they are jerked around by CM Immigration.  Just like the elderly and sick clients that LCN serves.  You may think it's "no big deal" to fork over 500 baht for a C of R or pay 3000 for expedited service for your annual retirement extension, but I've been assisting those who are living on the end with my LCN activity -- those who can ill afford that 3000 baht and until recently assisting new retirees in being president of CEC and the new arrivals are shocked to discover that it costs something like 30,000 baht to do an in-country "conversion" if they arrive without a visa or with a tourist visa when they've told the gov't fee is 2,000 baht.  

 

Welcome to Chiang Mai!

 

I've had enough.

 

You guys can visit the marginal guys at Suan Dok hospital and talk with them about what their platelet count and CD4 numbers mean, and go to Immigration for a medical extension on their behalf because I'll be in Malaysia.

 

And you can tell Ubon Joe I won't answer any more bogus visa related questions on his "premier" ThaiVisa forum where they recently started to post obviously fake posts from "newbies"

 

I'm tired of being your pinata.  

 

 

 

[rawhod]

I came to stay in Chiang Mai in January 2010. At that time all Immigration services were located at the Airport Immigration Office..

I did visa extensions, change of visa from Non Imm. to retirement, 90 day reports, retirement extensions, transfer of visa to new passport and Certificate of Residence (C of R)...all at the Airport Immigration Office without the need for a Visa Agent and no need to get up before 6:30 am.

 

The system worked perfectly smoothly for me and, IMHO,  certainly wasn't "broken".

 

It was accepted that you paid 500 baht for a C of R

 

At some point, I don't remember exactly when, there were some people who decided that the C of R should be free and started making noises to that effect. Around that point in time, Immigration moved the C of R office to the building opposite Promenada and started offering free C of R if you were willing to wait a month or so. The anti 500 baht noises continued and Immigration even withdrew the issuance of C of R for a while.

 

Then the Office moved partially to Promenada and the onslaught began from certain people to change the way they worked.

 

Whether the system would have settled to the previous level offered at the Airport Office we will never know.

 

My own view is that since we are visitors here and require Immigration services, and that they have the upper hand, we should not be interfering and they should have been left to allow their system to develop at their own pace. Interference only produced a lot of resentment.

[FolkGuitar]

Lets start with some facts...

1. No one is required to pay for a Residence Certificate.  No one... Free certificates are available.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

2. No one is required to pay for the services of a Visa Agent. It's easy to take care of it yourself.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

3. No one is required to pay for Immigration service above the stated fees for which we get receipts.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

There is no law prohibiting the use of expedited service, nor are there any rules or regulations against the use of expedited service.  To assume that this is aiding and abetting corruption is just that, an assumption... personal views of how things 'should' be. Unless, of course, you have proof that you can show, that laws are being broken. To date, no one has shown such proof. No one.

 

If a person does not want to pay for expedited service, they are not required to do so.

It just takes a little more planning on their part.

 

[MisterTee]

19 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Lets start with some facts...

1. No one is required to pay for a Residence Certificate.  No one... Free certificates are available.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

2. No one is required to pay for the services of a Visa Agent. It's easy to take care of it yourself.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

3. No one is required to pay for Immigration service above the stated fees for which we get receipts.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

There is no law prohibiting the use of expedited service, nor are there any rules or regulations against the use of expedited service.  To assume that this is aiding and abetting corruption is just that, an assumption... personal views of how things 'should' be. Unless, of course, you have proof that you can show, that laws are being broken. To date, no one has shown such proof. No one.

 

If a person does not want to pay for expedited service, they are not required to do so.

It just takes a little more planning on their part.

 

All good points.

Paying for expedited service is common worldwide.

A good example is getting a US passport.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a little gratuitous bashing of Thais and Thailand?

[amexpat]

16 minutes ago, MisterTee said:

Paying for expedited service is common worldwide.

A good example is getting a US passport.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a little gratuitous bashing of Thais and Thailand?

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by amexpat

[rawhod]

6 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

 

Your mistake is applying US values to Thailand...

[FolkGuitar]

6 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

Very kind of them to state that. Not required to state it, but certainly nice of them to let us know.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Very kind of them to state that. Not required to state it, but certainly nice of them to let us know. And, certainly accurate. No fee is required for a Residence certificate. None at all.

 I suppose it would be nice if they also let us know that an expedited service is available, but certainly they are not under any obligation to do so.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

Not at all. They are all accurate, and in no way at odds to what we've been saying. Thanks for validating them.

[NancyL]

Actually, the idea of paying 500 baht for an expedited C of R doesn't esp. bother me, because this is something that's practiced in other provinces.  It's just the tip of the iceberg here.

 

Once a embassy official said to me, "Nancy, we know all the police in Thailand are corrupt and they pay to get their positions.  Immigration are part of the police and they've had to pay obtain their positions, so they need to recoup their investment through their jobs.  How do they do this in other provinces?"  I'd done research on how elderly expats are handled in Pattaya and Phuket and found this to be a very interesting question.  The answer seems to be that Bangkok turns a blind eye to the widespread practice of Imm. offices charging a modest fee for expedited C of Rs.  In many provinces it's 200 or 300 baht.  Chiang Mai is among the highest at 500 baht, but others are this high.  

 

So, the practice of charging for a C of R isn't "Chiang Mai specific".

 

What is "Chiang Mai specific" is the practice of severely limiting the number of marriage and retirement extensions granted each day to walk-in "retail customers" while visa agents can jump the queue and making it almost impossible for new arrivals to execute a visa conversion without the aid of an agent.  And the need for the elderly to arrive at zero-dark-thirty to wait in the dark as mosquito bait for their queue tickets.

[FolkGuitar]

15 minutes ago, NancyL said:

" Once a embassy official said to me, "Nancy, we know all the police in Thailand are corrupt and they pay to get their positions."

 

 

Ahhh.... It's the "Someone said" defense!  Certainly proof positive.

 

Quote

.... the widespread practice of Imm. offices charging a modest fee for expedited C of Rs.  In many provinces it's 200 or 300 baht.  Chiang Mai is among the highest at 500 baht, but others are this high.  So, the practice of charging for a C of R isn't "Chiang Mai specific". 

 

So actually, you aren't upset with the practice, only that Chiang Mai charges more for it. I see.

It's like the punch line from the old joke; "I know what you are. We are just negotiating a price."

 

Quote

And the need for the elderly to arrive at zero-dark-thirty to wait in the dark as mosquito bait for their queue tickets.

 

Yes, or they can hire a local high school kid to do it for them... as many of us do. It's 300 baht well spent. No more needing to buy Calamine lotion for the bug bites.

Edited April 22, 2017 by FolkGuitar

[Bill97]

....
 
I've had enough.
 
.....
 
I'm tired of being your pinata.  
 
 
 

Great, so just stop posting, on immigration topics, please. We too have had enough.

[canthai55]

 

37 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Great, so just stop posting, on immigration topics, please. We too have had enough.

 

The Lady is trying to post helpful information. Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like her posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

[FolkGuitar]

 
The Lady is trying to post helpful information. Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like her posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like the posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

[Wandr]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

Actually, the idea of paying 500 baht for an expedited C of R doesn't esp. bother me, because this is something that's practiced in other provinces.  It's just the tip of the iceberg here.

 

Once a embassy official said to me, "Nancy, we know all the police in Thailand are corrupt and they pay to get their positions.  Immigration are part of the police and they've had to pay obtain their positions, so they need to recoup their investment through their jobs.  How do they do this in other provinces?"  I'd done research on how elderly expats are handled in Pattaya and Phuket and found this to be a very interesting question.  The answer seems to be that Bangkok turns a blind eye to the widespread practice of Imm. offices charging a modest fee for expedited C of Rs.  In many provinces it's 200 or 300 baht.  Chiang Mai is among the highest at 500 baht, but others are this high.  

 

So, the practice of charging for a C of R isn't "Chiang Mai specific".

 

What is "Chiang Mai specific" is the practice of severely limiting the number of marriage and retirement extensions granted each day to walk-in "retail customers" while visa agents can jump the queue and making it almost impossible for new arrivals to execute a visa conversion without the aid of an agent.  And the need for the elderly to arrive at zero-dark-thirty to wait in the dark as mosquito bait for their queue tickets.

I totally agree with you .

I believe people who are making so much noise about perpetuating a corrupt system are either touts themselves or paid by touts.

Everyone has the right to hire an agent. Sure.

But everyone also has the right to obtain the same service directly and without undue stress. And that doesn't exist in Chiang Mai it seems.

I feel sorry for people who believe that that is the way things should be. They must really have had their faces trodden in the mud in the past.

At Jomtien the only service we pay for is 200-300 baht for the residence certificate. It is usually ready in 30 minutes.

90 day report? Show up at 10 am. You will be in and out in less than an hour. Sometimes 15 minutes.

Annual extensions? Less than an hour to submit paperwork. Pick up next day in 10 minutes.

All done with a smile. No extra money needed.

When you have a system like that and people still want to use agents, well no issues there.

Chiang Mai? Sounds like a cesspool.

I guess some people just like cesspools!

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

 

The Lady is trying to post helpful information. Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like her posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

Ranting about assumed corruption for years and years is helpful information?  Helpful for whom?  Certainly not anybody who wants to deal with Immigration in the most convenient manner for their situation.

 

Misinformation like the elderly having to wait in the dark when there forms for the elderly to set up a special appointment time, is helpful to whom? And ignoring the other options available is helpful to whom?  Nobody is forced to wait in the dark and many of the ever non-elderly have posted that they easily get service from Immigration coming later in the day.

[canthai55]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

 

The Lady is trying to post helpful information. Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like her posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

 

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Whether you agree or not is moot. Do not like the posts ? The ignore function works perfectly well. And saves the rest of us for having to read such as yours. And posts by others in the same vein.

 

Your either missed the point or ignored it. Forums are about debate. Telling people to not post is not Debate. Quoting others posts verbatim without adding anything to the conversation is not Debate.

[scottiejohn]

22 hours ago, NancyL said:

You can draw your own conclusions about why it was designed this way and who stands to gain

I see the ‘Lady’, despite being requested to do so, has still not put into print what the conclusions we are supposed to draw are!

 

I would suggest she puts up her conclusions with any relevant direct information or shuts up.

[Bill97]

Your either missed the point or ignored it. Forums are about debate. Telling people to not post is not Debate. Quoting others posts verbatim without adding anything to the conversation is not Debate.

No shit? About debate? Nothing about exchanging good information like to be helpful? Just about debate? You can't be serious.

[scottiejohn]

56 minutes ago, Wandr said:

I totally agree with you .

I believe people who are making so much noise about perpetuating a corrupt system are either touts themselves or paid by touts.

Everyone has the right to hire an agent. Sure.

But everyone also has the right to obtain the same service directly and without undue stress. And that doesn't exist in Chiang Mai it seems.

I feel sorry for people who believe that that is the way things should be. They must really have had their faces trodden in the mud in the past.

At Jomtien the only service we pay for is 200-300 baht for the residence certificate. It is usually ready in 30 minutes.

90 day report? Show up at 10 am. You will be in and out in less than an hour. Sometimes 15 minutes.

Annual extensions? Less than an hour to submit paperwork. Pick up next day in 10 minutes.

All done with a smile. No extra money needed.

When you have a system like that and people still want to use agents, well no issues there.

Chiang Mai? Sounds like a cesspool.

I guess some people just like cesspools!

It was stated earlier in this thread that false posts were being made elsewhere by ‘newbie’s’. Could you be a certain person’s ‘Newbie’ on this thread?

 

PS;  Welcome to our cesspool!

 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by scottiejohn

[Wandr]

18 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

It was stated earlier in this thread that false posts were being made elsewhere by ‘newbie’s’. Could you be a certain person’s ‘Newbie’ on this thread?

 

PS;  Welcome to our cesspool!

 

 

No.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I have a Yellow Book....might not ever move...but if paying 500 for a CR was the only scam, I wouldn't complain at all, but as Nancy stated it is just the tip of a large iceberg.  Do they not pay for their jobs at the other offices?

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

 

Your either missed the point or ignored it. Forums are about debate. Telling people to not post is not Debate. Quoting others posts verbatim without adding anything to the conversation is not Debate.

 

It is called "sarchasm," that abyss into which people oblivious to sarcasm fall. Shall we send down a ladder for you?

[Sparkles]

May I make some observations regarding this endless debate over the golden Residency Letter.

 

Every 12 months I go to the Bangkok Bank at KSK and obtain the bank letter confirming my bank balance is a min of 800,000 b for the Immigration run the next day.

 

In 9 years I have never had to wait more than 15 mins for it to be handed to me.Yes I pay. I can't remember if its 100 or 200 baht but I dont have to come back the following day as it is a 3 minute job for someone to process. 

 

I also get a bank receipt showing the amount of tax refund I can claim back from the tax office,that is provided free on the spot.

 

How is this any different,in time and effort, from a residency letter that requires a 24 hour turn around at 500 baht or wait a month and its free ! whoopee.

 

The signing off is a throwback from the past to justify the ego of the signatory,no one will ever check, even its on your 90 day report file.

 

I have long ago accepted that Immigration is stuck in some time warp when its supposed to provide a reasonable service ,its self importance is overblown and you must conform to the waiting times or be prepared to pay a premium.

 

Compare it with another Gov Dept the issuing of Thai passports.Last time,some  3months ago, my wife and I were in and out within 15 mins

Passport posted EMS to our home address within 7 days ,total efficiency for a mite over 1,000 b.It can be done if the will is there to do it.

 

Progress ? In the last couple of years we have seen the bar code in passports fall over (great idea, saving endless waste of paper)

The online appointment (great idea) gone, it appears forever.

The online 90 day reporting (great idea) again saving endless paperwork) gone

 

So can we  agree that we should not expect anything will change in the near future and people should be free to do what they please to navigate through this chore.

And hopefully we can agree it could be a lot fairer and more efficient.

 

 

 

[rawhod]

Sparkles, I agree...

We had the same experience at the passport office in February; superefficiancy.

 

Even paying the Electric at Nong Hoi PEA office,  you scan your bill to get a queue number, the cashier has all the info. on the computer without seeing your bill, pay, get change, 10 seconds at most.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Edited April 22, 2017 by rawhod

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Same at Revenue Office...easy as pinching a loaf.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Same at Revenue Office...easy as pinching a loaf.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Yes, a nice. Kerplunk...no need for spray or paper.

[Somnambulist]

For buying a new scooter, it this the the paper I need?  

And, do they accept paperwork for it in the afternoon?

 

 

[Wandr]

On 04/22/2017 at 6:52 PM, Sparkles said:

 

Progress ? In the last couple of years we have seen the bar code in passports fall over (great idea, saving endless waste of paper)

The online appointment (great idea) gone, it appears forever.

The online 90 day reporting (great idea) again saving endless paperwork) gone

 

So can we  agree that we should not expect anything will change in the near future and people should be free to do what they please to navigate through this chore.

And hopefully we can agree it could be a lot fairer and more efficient.

 

 

 

Maybe not relevant to CM but some information about other offices is always revealing.

I went for my 90 day to Jomtien last week. The officer, who recognized me, asked where the barcode was. I didn't even know what he was talking about . He explained that he had attached a barcode to my passport. This being the receipt for the last report that I had discarded because I had been out of the country.

Keep the old one he said. If you have the barcode you don't have to bring any paperwork except for the form. He returned all the paperwork to me.

This visit set a record for me . From the moment I took the queue number to the moment I got my passport back was less than 10 minutes. I told the officer as much.

 He just smiled.

It can happen in Chiang Mai too.

[Sparkles]

2 minutes ago, Wandr said:

Maybe not relevant to CM but some information about other offices is always revealing.

I went for my 90 day to Jomtien last week. The officer, who recognized me, asked where the barcode was. I didn't even know what he was talking about . He explained that he had attached a barcode to my passport. This being the receipt for the last report that I had discarded because I had been out of the country.

Keep the old one he said. If you have the barcode you don't have to bring any paperwork except for the form. He returned all the paperwork to me.

This visit set a record for me . From the moment I took the queue number to the moment I got my passport back was less than 10 minutes. I told the officer as much.

 He just smiled.

It can happen in Chiang Mai too.

Yes it could happen in CM but it won't.I tried twice , after the bar code was put into my passport, and was told, like everyone else, its no longer applicable.

 

I reverted to 90 day  by mail, EMS both ways,which I had been doing for over a decade,

 

I repeat my assertion  there is no will to provide an efficient service in CM,   Its pot luck how long you wait when you go in person, without paying an agent.

 

How many agents are there in Jomtien ?