Too many exemptions visa on my passport...

[Darafarangset]

59 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Tourist Visas are NOT the same as Visa Exempt entries, which have different rules, as expressed in Police Orders, which state they are NOT to be used for semi-continuous stay.  Please disregard posters who seem to dislike other, especially younger, foreigners staying in Thailand.  Oh How I Wish I had found this place when I was young!!
 

The only reasons Immigration can legally deny entry with a Tourist Visa are for "No means to support oneself," "Suspicion of working illegally," or a national-security issue (terrorism, etc).  Some points-of-entry have IOs with what would seem to be an "anti-foreigner" attitude, and have been known to deny entry for reasons they know to be false.  The vast majority of the time, however, rejections have occurred for completely preventable reasons. The following are some basic guidelines to stay here for longer periods of the year using Tourist Visas, to avoid problems:

• Be polite at all times, regardless of the attitude of the official you are dealing with.  Don't act like it is an imposition on you to answer questions - you are a guest.  Come back to this forum and vent later, if treated badly (and let us know where, so we can avoid that person/location).
• Always have 20K+ Baht in cash or travelers checks worth of any convertible currency.  Not having this is the reason for almost every denial of entry with a Tourist (and other) Visa. 
• Ideal to have proof that your income comes from abroad.  This would help assure a genuinely-curious IO how you can afford to be here without working illegally.  Bank statements may be helpful.
• Have proof of where you are staying - either a hotel-booking or condo-lease.  "Staying with a friend" has caused problems for some, even at generally friendly checkpoints.  IOs are required to know, and input into their computer, your intended stay-location.  Be honest.
• Be aware of Unfriendly Points Of Entry - Poipet (the worst), Ranong, and Airports.  Some airports are "worse" than others (Swampy is considered the least-bad - though some have had troubles there).  I choose to avoid them entirely, because - if refused - you cannot simply return to Laos, Cambodia, or Malaysia and try another location and/or day (those countries will cancel your exit-stamp, and you can continue as if you never left).  At an airport, you would be put in detention until you purchase a last-minute flight out to where you just came from, or your passport-country; this is expensive, and who likes to be locked up?
• Get your Tourist Visas from different countries - spread them out.  This allows more Tourist Visas in total, because individual consulates will start rejecting your applications after getting a few there, based on their own, unique, locally-invented rules of issuance.  After 2 years or so, you will need to get a new passport to obtain more Tourist Visas locally, because of these "consulate rules," which are based entirely on what is visible in the passport used with your application.  Be aware, though - Immigration can see everything in your history when you enter the country, so a new passport does not change the other guidelines, above, for entering the country.
• Have an answer prepared for the question, "What do you do in Thailand so often."  You should have an honest answer to this question.  If working-illegally, please STOP doing so, and leave now.  It's immoral / evil to take jobs from people in their home-country where they support their families.
• Have an answer prepared for the question, "How long do you intend to stay in Thailand."  Limit your answer to your Current Entry plans.  If you go off about staying years, or getting an ED visa in the future (never mention ED - never), you may irk an IO who cannot take long vacations like you, or who doesn't like "so many Farang" here, or whatever.  Think of it is not bragging / being arrogant to the guy's face.

Hi Jack, 

thank you for that post, it's full of interesting facts. 

To answer a bit about everything you said; when that IO officer questioned me, I was smiling, I'm always smiling, it's just natural, everybody has to smile when it comes to documents. 

Though I'm born in France, I'm Asian, and speak a little Thai, so when IO woman started to question me, I spoke to her in Thai to be nice but she clearly didn't care at all, she even said to her colleague, something like "those Isaan people think they can come and go as they want" I didn't say a word about that but I found it quite racist... She even took a picture of me? Idk why, and clearly I didn't care that much, maybe she just wanted to scared me or showing her colleagues how tough she is. Btw, even her xolleagues were asking "why don't you let her jn? Let her in" 

whatever.. After 20mins of her being rude and aggressive, she switched post with another IO a man this time, that asked me for my  flight back ticket, which I did, and finally entered Thailand! 

 

I still think that this woman had something against my face, my bf didn't get any trouble with his IO, not a word was spoken, just got stamped. 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Darafarangset said:

do you know if that "alert" somehow disappear?

I mean, if I go back to France and only come back in Thailand in 6/7 months, is that period enough to turn it off? Or wouldn't change anything flagged once, flagged forever? 

Calling it being flagged is wrong. It is merely an alert to inform the officer you have done 6 visa exempt entries. The officer should then check the type of exempt entries they were. Doing them as out/in visa runs to live here is what they should look for.

If you have a tourist visa for entry the alert will not come up. If another visa exempt entry that is not a out/in should also not be a problem.

[Darafarangset]

1 hour ago, Mark123456 said:

Darafarangset,

 

You will almost certainly be fine if you go to Vientiane and get a visa. There seem to be a lot of posts replying to you that are not based on facts. I have a 48-page passport filled with a variety of visas for Thailand and a number of visa-exempt entries, clearly showing that I've been here for 7 years without being out of the country for more than two weeks and I obtained a tourist visa in Vientiane last September with no problems at all.

Thank you Mark, such a positive comment :) hope that it will work this time without being questioned or asked for documents :)

[Darafarangset]

1 hour ago, wump said:

I too have 48-page passport completely covered in blue and green stickers. I never had trouble even though they always take their time to examine my passport at the border and eventually do stamp me, but they don't exactly smile at that . I guess the key is to not spent more than 9 months a year over here if not on a proper visa?

Good question

[Darafarangset]

37 minutes ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Umm, yeah..that's cute but screen shot wont fly

Sent from my SM-G920V using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That's what I showed the IO when I've been asked for my flight ticket, a screenshot with dates and flight number...

That's why I'm asking but I understand that a real paper is better, though a real paper could be fake bank statement too?

I mean with all that photoshop it's not that hard to pretend you have money.

So, how is a screenshot less convincing than a paper? 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Darafarangset

[JackThompson]

40 minutes ago, Darafarangset said:

Hi Jack, 

thank you for that post, it's full of interesting facts. 

To answer a bit about everything you said; when that IO officer questioned me, I was smiling, I'm always smiling, it's just natural, everybody has to smile when it comes to documents. 

Though I'm born in France, I'm Asian, and speak a little Thai, so when IO woman started to question me, I spoke to her in Thai to be nice but she clearly didn't care at all, she even said to her colleague, something like "those Isaan people think they can come and go as they want" I didn't say a word about that but I found it quite racist... She even took a picture of me? Idk why, and clearly I didn't care that much, maybe she just wanted to scared me or showing her colleagues how tough she is. Btw, even her xolleagues were asking "why don't you let her jn? Let her in" 

 

Everyone gets a picture taken by the webcam hooked up to the immigration computer.  Don't worry about that.  As to their general attitude(s) - this varies by the - let's call it "culture" - of the particular checkpoint.  IOs at airports have done some things which seem to indicate such issues - like tearing up a Thai child's Thai passport, because the IO saw they had a foreign-passport, too.   I very much doubt you would have this experience coming across a Friendship Bridge from Laos - especially with a Tourist Visa.

 

40 minutes ago, Darafarangset said:

whatever.. After 20mins of her being rude and aggressive, she switched post with another IO a man this time, that asked me for my  flight back ticket, which I did, and finally entered Thailand! 

 

I still think that this woman had something against my face, my bf didn't get any trouble with his IO, not a word was spoken, just got stamped. 

The flight-ticket is especially important if coming in Visa Exempt.  I would recommend always using a Tourist Visa from here on.

[Darafarangset]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Everyone gets a picture taken by the webcam hooked up to the immigration computer.  Don't worry about that.  As to their general attitude(s) - this varies by the - let's call it "culture" - of the particular checkpoint.  IOs at airports have done some things which seem to indicate such issues - like tearing up a Thai child's Thai passport, because the IO saw they had a foreign-passport, too.   I very much doubt you would have this experience coming across a Friendship Bridge from Laos - especially with a Tourist Visa.

 

The flight-ticket is especially important if coming in Visa Exempt.  I would recommend always using a Tourist Visa from here on.

Oh that wasn't the webcam, she took her iPhone 6 to take a pic of me, don't even know if she still has it on her phone... 

And yes I won't forget that flight ticket for the next time  

 

I've heard that checkpoints at the international airport were nicer than DMK, is it true? Or just a rumour... 

 

[KamnanT]

5 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

YOU ARE BEING SUSPECTED OF WORING IN Thailand.

You need to show your income is in fact from outside Thailand and not earned in Thailand by working here, without a work permit.

 

I hope that's a missing "K", not a missing "H"!

[JackThompson]

Just now, Darafarangset said:

Oh that wasn't the webcam, she took her iPhone 6 to take a pic of me, don't even know if she still has it on her phone... 

And yes I won't forget that flight ticket for the next time  

 

I've heard that checkpoints at the international airport were nicer than DMK, is it true? Or just a rumour...

Weird thing with the i-phone - I have no idea what that is about. 

 

People say that DMK is bad - similar troubles with Phuket and Krabi airports.  I suppose the "odds" of trouble are lower at Swampy, but I have seen reports of people having troubles there, too.  Personally, I'd only exit via air - then come back via land.  The worst checkpoint - Poipet - encourages airport use, which is a red-flag to me - seems like a set-up.  But others disagree - people who have been here a long time.

 

For me, it boils down to what happens if things go wrong - whatever the odds; will I be spending an extra night in a guesthouse in Laos, or in a detention-cell in an airport with an overpriced-flight the next day to somewhere I don't want to go? 

[thecyclist]

Your visa history is a rather short one.You should have no problems getting a Tourist visa in Vientiane, or Phnom Penh.If I were you, I would then reenter overland , any crossing bar Poipet, and chances are you won't have any.problems.

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, Darafarangset said:

Hi Jack, 

thank you for that post, it's full of interesting facts. 

To answer a bit about everything you said; when that IO officer questioned me, I was smiling, I'm always smiling, it's just natural, everybody has to smile when it comes to documents. 

Though I'm born in France, I'm Asian, and speak a little Thai, so when IO woman started to question me, I spoke to her in Thai to be nice but she clearly didn't care at all, she even said to her colleague, something like "those Isaan people think they can come and go as they want" I didn't say a word about that but I found it quite racist... She even took a picture of me? Idk why, and clearly I didn't care that much, maybe she just wanted to scared me or showing her colleagues how tough she is. Btw, even her xolleagues were asking "why don't you let her jn? Let her in" 

whatever.. After 20mins of her being rude and aggressive, she switched post with another IO a man this time, that asked me for my  flight back ticket, which I did, and finally entered Thailand! 

 

I still think that this woman had something against my face, my bf didn't get any trouble with his IO, not a word was spoken, just got stamped. 

You say you were born in France but are Asian  , are you Thai ? If you have a Thai parent get a Thai passport and you won't have to worry about lenght of stay here. Yes the IO could have thought you were Thai and jealous of the fact you had French passport and better life than her. Could have also figured if you were Thai she might make thing difficult so you would have to uae Thai passport

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

They are looking for excuses to deny you entry, you know this already.

 

Do you feel welcome ?

But are they not "guests" here?

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, they want legitimime tourists.

They want what?

[doggie1955]

13 hours ago, Los Luver said:

well

Los = land of smiles = Thailand

LOS = Land of Scams, or Land of Sadness, or Land of Stupidity = Thailand

[doggie1955]

Why are you playing around with trying to stay in Thailand? Why don't just get a visa for Cambodia, so easy to do for a 1 yr visa or even a 5 yr visa.

And it is cheaper to live there for an apt/home, or anything...And if you had a Cambodia visa, it is so easy to come back into Thailand.

[Darafarangset]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

You say you were born in France but are Asian  , are you Thai ? If you have a Thai parent get a Thai passport and you won't have to worry about lenght of stay here. Yes the IO could have thought you were Thai and jealous of the fact you had French passport and better life than her. Could have also figured if you were Thai she might make thing difficult so you would have to uae Thai passport

Hi Tony, 

No sadly I'm not Thai, otherwise everything would have been a lot more different :) 

I'm Lao, and before some of you ask me why I don't use my Lao passport to get into Thailand through ASEAN, Laos doesn't give double nationality. If I ever want a lao passport I have to give up my French nationality, which is impossible. So when I'm in Laos, I'm like every other tourist, French. 

 

But to get back on the subject, I guess that's why she said I'm "Isaan" as I speak Lao fluently it's probably the mix of Thai/Lao that she heard and made her kind of jealous... 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Darafarangset

[Darafarangset]

50 minutes ago, doggie1955 said:

Why are you playing around with trying to stay in Thailand? Why don't just get a visa for Cambodia, so easy to do for a 1 yr visa or even a 5 yr visa.

And it is cheaper to live there for an apt/home, or anything...And if you had a Cambodia visa, it is so easy to come back into Thailand.

By the comments you left I can tell you're not a big fan of Thailand, which is ok we cannot love the same things but what I do not accept is you being rude and assuming that I'm "playing around" this is definitely not a game to me dear. I'm trying my best for now to stay in Thailand because I'd like to live here permanently but my financial situation right now does not allow me to do so for the moment. 

And when it comes to it, I'll stay, and legally. 

 

About Cambodia, to be honest I've never been there, I don't know the people and their manners. 

I like cities, big cities that gives you opportunity to build of future and make money. Not a jungle to drink alcohol and watch sunsets every day. 

 

That being said, thank you for all these Infos about Cambodia, but this is not the subject. 

[Darafarangset]

2 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Your visa history is a rather short one.You should have no problems getting a Tourist visa in Vientiane, or Phnom Penh.If I were you, I would then reenter overland , any crossing bar Poipet, and chances are you won't have any.problems.

Thanks the cyclist :) 

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, Darafarangset said:

Can I show like a screenshot of my bank statement? Or should I have something printed? This might look like a stupid question but they could tell me "we don't accept screenshots" or whatever so I don't get in the country...

This is not a formal requirement, just something to back up your assurance that you are using overseas sources of money to live on in Thailand. As such, it will vary depending on the immigration official you talk to what they might find convincing. I have previous;ly used bank books and bank statements showing foreign transfers from my overseas bank accounts into Thailand, but many alternatives might be equally appropriate.

[JackThompson]

 

8 hours ago, JerryinTH said:

  13 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Education visa work well

8 hours ago, JerryinTH said:

Before the crackdown - yes. 

Now you actually have to play by the book, attend a min amount of classes per week and beg for an extension every 90 days.. at inflated prices, depending on the I/O. 

 

It's not quite that clear-cut.  This depends on what Immigration Office / Area.  Perhaps, in some areas, you attend your classes and all is fine and above-board.  If some have had an "honest" experience with ED-Visas recently (things change frequently) - please comment and let us know where, what school, etc.

 

In many areas, you pay "extra money" for 90-day extensions or you have to pay for 2 extensions / visits to Immigration per 90-day period - so 3800 Baht - vs 5000 (1900 + 3100 'tea money') per 90-days for one 'no problem' extension.  As well, you may not have happy experiences getting those extensions. In areas where this goes on, attendance is still not a factor - both honest and dishonest must pay the tea-money.  If you are OK paying this way for continued extensions-of-stay, you can get a year from an ED visa, then another 6 months on a new one, then change languages for another year + 6 months - ad-infinitum.  

 

But one thing is for certain, ED visas are viewed by many checkpoint-IOs as de-facto proof you are working in Thailand illegally.  It is therefore not recommended to leave and return to Thailand while on an ED visa with a re-entry permit ('real' students should not be traveling around, seems to be the logic).  Also, when you are done with your studies, get a new passport, to remove any ED stickers from sight, before attempting to enter with any other type of visa.  This is not to say it cannot be done, but that many cases of folks reporting trouble entering on other visas have had an old ED visa in their passport, which led to an "A-HA" moment by the IO - like a detective who just found proof of misdeeds.

[tazly]

13 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, they want legitimime tourists.

Marcel Marceau would like that...

[lvr181]

16 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

YOU ARE BEING SUSPECTED OF WORING IN Thailand.

You need to show your income is in fact from outside Thailand and not earned in Thailand by working here, without a work permit.

 

Woring? Do you mean whoring or working? 

 

Couldn't help it.

[BernieOnTour]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

...

 

But one thing is for certain, ED visas are viewed by many checkpoint-IOs as de-facto proof you are working in Thailand illegally.  It is therefore not recommended to leave and return to Thailand while on an ED visa with a re-entry permit ('real' students should not be traveling around, seems to be the logic).  Also, when you are done with your studies, get a new passport, to remove any ED stickers from sight, before attempting to enter with any other type of visa.  This is not to say it cannot be done, but that many cases of folks reporting trouble entering on other visas have had an old ED visa in their passport, which led to an "A-HA" moment by the IO - like a detective who just found proof of misdeeds.

IMHO that "de facto proof you are working" depends also on the language school, you are attending. - In case, it is one of the infamous ones, eg. the one starting with "W", I assume you are right. However, if one selects one of those institutions, whose primary interest is not to get as many paying students as possible via ED Visa, but primarily to teach Thai, it is for sure different. ( Institutions like CMU, Payap, AUA, ... come to mind.)

 

However, I admit, this more than unlikely an alternative for the OP as she intends to work in Thailand: "I like cities, big cities that gives you opportunity to build of future and make money."

 

... I am sure, the next (and maybe, this time definitive) crackdown on the "co-working" spaces will come. Just too many "digital nomads" abusing the system and working illegally in Thailand with limited spending.

[BernieOnTour]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

Woring? Do you mean whoring or working? 

 

Couldn't help it.

Not necessarily funny, the IO might assume both versions....

From what I have seen on numerous occasions - in Singapore you could be sure about that,  if presenting such a visa history.

Edited April 21, 2017 by BernieOnTour

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, BernieOnTour said:

IMHO that "de facto proof you are working" depends also on the language school, you are attending. - In case, it is one of the infamous ones, eg. the one starting with "W", I assume you are right. However, if one selects one of those institutions, whose primary interest is not to get as many paying students as possible via ED Visa, but primarily to teach Thai, it is for sure different. ( Institutions like CMU, Payap, AUA, ... come to mind.)

 

However, I admit, this more than unlikely an alternative for the OP as she intends to work in Thailand: "I like cities, big cities that gives you opportunity to build of future and make money."

 

... I am sure, the next (and maybe, this time definitive) crackdown on the "co-working" spaces will come. Just too many "digital nomads" abusing the system and working illegally in Thailand with limited spending.

If a major university - you get a 1-year extension, and no hassles from the Immigration-Office, from what I understand.  I don't know if the border-IOs would know the difference, if one made a trip-out - maybe they do.  But you make an important point - a "real university" is treated differently than a "language school."

 

I've never understood the "coworking space" idea.  A large monitor to connect to a laptop is cheap.  Internet is widely available (best in condos).  These "spaces" seem more like a social thing.  As to what they spend, if they are beginners working cheap, I would guess 4 Thai salaries of foreign sourced funds injected into the economy.  But those people probably wouldn't pay for a special "space" to work.  Most "co-worker" paying-types likely earn more. 

 

Assuming the authorities did a crack-down, the only beneficiaries would be Cambodia, Vietnam, and The Philippines - with Thais taking the equivalent loss.  There is no "downside" to people who don't qualify for any benefits/welfare from the government spending foreign-capital into your economy, purchasing goods and services from your citizens.

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, BernieOnTour said:

I am sure, the next (and maybe, this time definitive) crackdown on the "co-working" spaces will come. Just too many "digital nomads" abusing the system and working illegally in Thailand with limited spending.

I do not think the Thai authorities have any interest in cracking down on true digital nomads. Other than racism, there is absolutely no incentive to do so. Trying to find those carrying out business in Thailand, and excluding those, if they can find a way of doing it, is different. That might happen.

[Putmak]

Just a point, because it may help, the Royal Thai Embassy in London state that travellers cheques or cash equivalent to 10,000bt ONLY are required per person, and 20,000bt per family for a Tourist Visa Exemption entry.

 

Tourist Visa Exemption

 

Passport holders of the countries listed for visa exemption are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit. If such foreigners enter Thailand at immigration checkpoints, which border neighbouring countries (overland crossing), they will be allowed to stay for 15 days each time. The exemption to this is Malaysian nationals crossing overland from Malaysia who are granted a period of stay not exceeding 30 days each time.

 

 

Foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption category may only do so for 30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6 month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.

 

Foreigners entering Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category must show the documents below at the port of entry: 

• Proof of adequate finances for the duration of stay in Thailand i.e. traveller’s cheque or cash equivalent to 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family.
• Proof of onward travel (confirmed air, train, bus or boat tickets) to leave Thailand within 30 days of the arrival date (**otherwise a tourist visa must be obtained).

   

[Mark123456]

7 hours ago, BernieOnTour said:

IMHO that "de facto proof you are working" depends also on the language school, you are attending. - In case, it is one of the infamous ones, eg. the one starting with "W", I assume you are right. However, if one selects one of those institutions, whose primary interest is not to get as many paying students as possible via ED Visa, but primarily to teach Thai, it is for sure different. ( Institutions like CMU, Payap, AUA, ... come to mind.)

 

However, I admit, this more than unlikely an alternative for the OP as she intends to work in Thailand: "I like cities, big cities that gives you opportunity to build of future and make money."

 

... I am sure, the next (and maybe, this time definitive) crackdown on the "co-working" spaces will come. Just too many "digital nomads" abusing the system and working illegally in Thailand with limited spending.

How did you make the leap to co-working spaces from the OP's comments? Got a little bee in your bonnet about digital nomads? If I'm on holiday in a foreign country and contemplating the possibility of working there in the future, that doesn't make me a criminal or a digital nomad. A little less self-righteousness and a little more sharing of knowledge would make this forum a much nicer and more useful place to spend time online.

 

Also, if I recall correctly, there's absolutely no mention of what school you are attending on the ED visa stamp in your passport so it's completely irrelevant as far as exiting and entering the country is concerned. It might make a difference when applying for an extension at one's local immigration office but the point you were responding to specifically stated "checkpoint-IOs" so it clearly wasn't related to extensions.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Mark123456

[Darafarangset]

So what should we do guys? 

 

Better to get out and come back and 30 days exemption (and maybe another extension) 

or get a visa in Laos? 

Of course we'll have all the documents they might ask for in both situations (flight back, bank statement...) 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Darafarangset said:

So what should we do guys? 

 

Better to get out and come back and 30 days exemption (and maybe another extension) 

or get a visa in Laos? 

Of course we'll have all the documents they might ask for in both situations (flight back, bank statement...) 

I think it would be best to get a tourist visa since you plan on staying 2 months or more here.