Permanent Residence after 3 Times/Years renewing Marriage Visa?

[4jasmin]

Hello Community

 

I just was reading a Reply in another Forum about Marriage Visa in Thailand

 

It was stated:

 

...First, you may apply for a 90-day Non Immigrant O Visa based on marriage and then convert this to a 1-year marriage visa.

Once you have applied for 3 consecutive years of visa extensions on the marriage visa, you can then apply for permanent residence for Thailand....

 

Is this a prooven Fact?

 

Are there other Regulations ?

 

Thanks for reading ....

[TerryLH]

If you meet the requirements, you can skip PR and apply for citizenship.

Many of the same requirements, but much cheaper.

[ubonjoe]

You have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency or citizenship.

[4jasmin]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency or citizenship.

Thank you for your Answer, but I did not find anything about the " you have to be working" Term

 

Where can I confirm your Informations about this ?

[4jasmin]

I have found the Information regarding my Thread on a Website, 

powered by Siam Legal International

 

http://www.thaiimmigration.net/marriage-visa-for-thailand.html

 

In a Reply to an User Questions, I have found this:

 

Consultant on 22nd Aug 2016

First, you may apply for a 90-day Non Immigrant O Visa based on marriage and then convert this to a 1-year marriage visa.

Once you have applied for 3 consecutive years of visa extensions on the marriage visa, you can then apply for permanent

residence for Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, 4jasmin said:

Thank you for your Answer, but I did not find anything about the " you have to be working" Term

 

Where can I confirm your Informations about this ?

Read this list of required documents for PR on immigration website. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_th_sponser_en.pdf

Edit: For citizenship see 3.2 here. Guidelines_for_Application_for_Naturalization_14__Oct_2009_EN.pdf

Edited April 22, 2017 by ubonjoe

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, 4jasmin said:

I have found the Information regarding my Thread on a Website, 

powered by Siam Legal International

 

http://www.thaiimmigration.net/marriage-visa-for-thailand.html

 

In a Reply to an User Questions, I have found this:

 

Consultant on 22nd Aug 2016

First, you may apply for a 90-day Non Immigrant O Visa based on marriage and then convert this to a 1-year marriage visa.

Once you have applied for 3 consecutive years of visa extensions on the marriage visa, you can then apply for permanent

residence for Thailand.

Just wrong and misleading info. That site is full of it.

They even call an extension of stay based upon marriage a visa.

[overherebc]

Without a doubt a full 3 years of WP is 100% needed. Work with your WP for 2 years and 11 months and the job finishes you start the 3 years again from your next WP. Even if you have over 3 years and start the process you really need to stay employed during the whole process through to finish. Any breaks of work and tax records could cause you the problem of starting again from the beginning.

Yes, I know it's not written.

Edited April 22, 2017 by overherebc

[brianinbangkok]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74654-Camerata's-Guide-To-The-Permanent-Residence-Process

 

Check this topic.

And yeah you need to be working with a workpermit and tax returns for 3 years.

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74654-Camerata's-Guide-To-The-Permanent-Residence-Process

 

Check this topic.

And yeah you need to be working with a workpermit and tax returns for 3 years.

 

True, from personal experience 25 years ago.

 

Lots of documents needed but the WP and tax documents were the first documents the senior imm. officer looked for and scrutinized.

 

My agent asked if copies of numerous older WPs and finalization year by year of my Thai tax return would help (in fact they were already in the wad of documents submitted).  The senior imm. officer replied (he spoke very advanced English) 'not needed by the regulations but leave them in the application documents file, I think it helps to build the image the committee looks for'.

 

On the other hand one of my work colleagues was using the same agent, he submitted everything about 1 hour after me, also saw a senior imm. officer quickly but a different officer. Agent mentioned that, besides the 3 yrs requirement copies of numerous older wp and tax documents had been included in the submission. Imm. offficer said 'please take them out' which the agent did. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by scorecard

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Just wrong and misleading info. That site is full of it.

They even call an extension of stay based upon marriage a visa.

 

I've heard a few times of foreigners and law companies getting tangled up in regard to PR and citizenship applications.

 

As always ubonjoe has the clear answer. 

[janejira]

Also, there may be different requirements for a woman married to a Thai man.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, janejira said:

Also, there may be different requirements for a woman married to a Thai man.

There is for doing a citizenship application but not residency.

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, 4jasmin said:

First, you may apply for a 90-day Non Immigrant O Visa based on marriage and then convert this to a 1-year marriage visa.

They can't even get this right. Towards the end of your 90 day non-imm O entry, you would be applying for an annual extension of stay based on marriage, not a visa. There is no "marriage visa."

 

 Although in casual conversation referring to the extension as a "marriage visa" may be common, you would think anyone offering legal advice would use the correct terms. Being in the country on a permission to stay from a visa entry and remaining in the country based on an extension of (your permission to) stay does make a difference in several ways ... though neither would be sufficient to fulfill the requirements for PR.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Suradit69

[NOWHERE]

Good knowledge. 

[overherebc]

I was also informed that using a multi entry O and a work permit issued on the multi does not comply. It has to be the year extension of stay as that is the condition for continuity.

I'm happy to be corrected as that info came from a lawyer.

Edited April 23, 2017 by overherebc

[Yggdrasil]

May a person living in Thailand on a Retirement Visa and who has made  at least three yearly extensions and have paid taxes for more than three years and married to Thai wife for ten years apply for PR?

 

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

May a person living in Thailand on a Retirement Visa and who has made  at least three yearly extensions and have paid taxes for more than three years and married to Thai wife for ten years apply for PR?

 

As I wrote before you would have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes.

Just paying taxes is not enough.

[overherebc]

37 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

May a person living in Thailand on a Retirement Visa and who has made  at least three yearly extensions and have paid taxes for more than three years and married to Thai wife for ten years apply for PR?

 

I've worked here since the early 90's and most of the work has been contract. Most of them lasted around 18 months to 25/26 months or so with some out of the country for 6 to longest 12 months.

I have probably paid 12 to 14 years tax but it was never at any time a continuous 36 months, so, even if I wanted to apply I would never have fulfilled the conditions.

[SteveB2]

Permanent residency Applications are different...

 

With most Thai visa applications, providing the applicant satisfies all the published requirements, then with minor clarifications and additions requested at the whim of the immigration officer processing the application, the visa is usually issued.

 

Such is NOT the case for the granting of either Permanent Residency or Thai Citizenship.

 

The published requirements represent the barest minimum requirements for consideration by the CW IMMO PR team. 

 

Because... for PR and Thai citizenship, an additional confidential scoring system plus a committee is used to further vet PR applicants for suitability.

 

I have glanced at a copy of the scoring system, but am in no way privy to all sections - here is a collation of some of the sections used to vet applicant suitability as of my own application in December 2015.

 

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000                15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000              20 Points

BHT120,001 or more               25 Points

 

Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

 

Applicants Age

20-30 years                             2 Points

30-40 years                             5 Points

40-50 years                             10 Points

50-60 years                             8 Points

60 years+                                 5 Points

 

Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

Knowledge of Thai Language

Can speak & understand Thai language:8 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem:10 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points

 

There are many more sections in the manual which is about half inch thick document contains dozens of guidance notes for the scoring system.

 

With the Thai Permanent Resident and Thai Citizenship application processes now being very similar - a better idea of the additional vetting process(s) can be obtained by reading the attached official file for vetting citizenship applications. 

Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

[Yggdrasil]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote before you would have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes.

Just paying taxes is not enough.

Thank you for your response. I have been a bit confused after reading info at gam-legalallience website  stating that one may apply for PR based on Retirement Visa and Marriage Visa in addition to Business Visa.

I have in fact been tax resident in Thailand for abt 20 years with work permit but have now been retired for five years and paid taxes in Thailand on my state pension from Scandinavia that I will receive for the rest of my life. But if retirement visa is not accepted for PR then I guess I have to give up the idea. Thanks again.

[abab]

I wonder why having 3 years of work permit is needed ? It should only be based on having a yearly visa.

 

 

[Yggdrasil]

3 minutes ago, abab said:

I wonder why having 3 years of work permit is needed ? It should only be based on having a yearly visa.

 

 

Yes, that has been my impression also. It would be great to have it confirmed that any 'one year' Non-Imm Visa (Business, Retirement and Marriage) with at least three extensions would qualify for application for PR - assuming everything else is ok.

[MobileContent]

29 minutes ago, abab said:

I wonder why having 3 years of work permit is needed ? It should only be based on having a yearly visa.

 

 

Visas have nothing to do with it but extension of stays is the key plus employment for the past 3 years on a WP and taxes paid. 

 

What the Thai government wants is senior management executives in local or MNC's to take PR status in Thailand.

 

If the Thai government would accept PR status for foreigners that are on multiply entry visa (one year either B or O) they would be flooded with applications.

 

 

[overherebc]

31 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Yes, that has been my impression also. It would be great to have it confirmed that any 'one year' Non-Imm Visa (Business, Retirement and Marriage) with at least three extensions would qualify for application for PR - assuming everything else is ok.

 

I stopped wishing things here could be the same as UK Europe and USA after I'd been here for about 2 years.

Go with the flow, and keep your BP like mine at around 120/80 at 70 years of age.

???

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Permanent residency Applications are different...

 

With most Thai visa applications, providing the applicant satisfies all the published requirements, then with minor clarifications and additions requested at the whim of the immigration officer processing the application, the visa is usually issued.

 

Such is NOT the case for the granting of either Permanent Residency or Thai Citizenship.

 

The published requirements represent the barest minimum requirements for consideration by the CW IMMO PR team. 

 

Because... for PR and Thai citizenship, an additional confidential scoring system plus a committee is used to further vet PR applicants for suitability.

 

I have glanced at a copy of the scoring system, but am in no way privy to all sections - here is a collation of some of the sections used to vet applicant suitability as of my own application in December 2015.

 

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000                15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000              20 Points

BHT120,001 or more               25 Points

 

Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

 

Applicants Age

20-30 years                             2 Points

30-40 years                             5 Points

40-50 years                             10 Points

50-60 years                             8 Points

60 years+                                 5 Points

 

Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

Knowledge of Thai Language

Can speak & understand Thai language:8 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem:10 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points

 

There are many more sections in the manual which is about half inch thick document contains dozens of guidance notes for the scoring system.

 

With the Thai Permanent Resident and Thai Citizenship application processes now being very similar - a better idea of the additional vetting process(s) can be obtained by reading the attached official file for vetting citizenship applications. 

Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

 

 

I don't question anything in your post however  a few points are a surprise:  

 

1.       Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

 

When I got PR, 25+ years ago, if people asked about this factor, the answer was: PR is about YOU, are YOU a person that has already and can in the future contribute to the development of Thailand.

 

I was not married to a Thai lady at the date I applied for PR but my Western colleague who applied at the same time was married to a Thai lady and this point was of strong concern to him.

 

He asked about this point and he's the one who got the reply: ' Married / not married to a Thai lady or any lady is not relevant to PR because PR is about YOU. Are YOU a person that has already and can in the future contribute to the development of Thailand'.

 

2.       Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

When I got PR, a doctoral degree was preferred. At that time I didn't have a doctoral degree (now have) but I did have 2 masters degrees which, I was told was pretty much necessary to get approval for PR.

 

Plus there needed to be evidence that 

 

- The 2 (or more) masters degrees held by the application were valuable in terms of knowledge / technology transfer valuable to the long-term development of Thailand.

 

Another item, when I got PR the applicant had to prove (documentary proof, current year and history) that he/she had some form of long-term personal investments (started years beforehand: mutual funds, pension schemes etc), showing that there was very little chance the applicant would ever be a financial burden to Thailand).

 

Another item, I had to provide documentary proof that I did not have a criminal record either in Thailand or my original home country.   

 

I guess the regulations / requirements change / get adjusted from time to time.

[connda]

On 4/22/2017 at 10:37 PM, overherebc said:

Without a doubt a full 3 years of WP is 100% needed. Work with your WP for 2 years and 11 months and the job finishes you start the 3 years again from your next WP. Even if you have over 3 years and start the process you really need to stay employed during the whole process through to finish. Any breaks of work and tax records could cause you the problem of starting again from the beginning.

Yes, I know it's not written.

I also believe there is a specific amount of money that you need to earn while working in Thailand to qualify.  If you're marriage with an extension and a WP making 20K THB a month as a teacher, I don't believe that cuts it.  

[abab]

3 hours ago, MobileContent said:

Visas have nothing to do with it but extension of stays is the key plus employment for the past 3 years on a WP and taxes paid. 

 

What the Thai government wants is senior management executives in local or MNC's to take PR status in Thailand.

 

If the Thai government would accept PR status for foreigners that are on multiply entry visa (one year either B or O) they would be flooded with applications.

 

 

 

 

I would have expected that being able to show few millions $ was enough. I am not going to work just to get any residency !

 

 

 

 

[ThaiWai]

"Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points"

"Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points"

 

How could you read but not write?  Is that someone with no hands??

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by ThaiWai

[gk10002000]

On 4/22/2017 at 3:29 AM, ubonjoe said:

You have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency or citizenship.

Interesting.  So if an expat has lots of independent income, overseas investments, dividends, pension, just a plain old bunch of cash from an inheritance or whatever, he still would need to work in Thailand for 3 years and pay taxes before getting citizenship or PR?  I can imagine some  reasons for Thailand to require that, but it seems to rule out an awful lot of people that would bring money into the country.  I guess they want full time long term residents to keep paying visa fees?