Permanent Residence after 3 Times/Years renewing Marriage Visa?

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Interesting.  So if an expat has lots of independent income, overseas investments, dividends, pension, just a plain old bunch of cash from an inheritance or whatever, he still would need to work in Thailand for 3 years and pay taxes before getting citizenship or PR?  I can imagine some  reasons for Thailand to require that, but it seems to rule out an awful lot of people that would bring money into the country.  I guess they want full time long term residents to keep paying visa fees?

You are bringing in another category for applying for permanent residency. Topic is about marriage to a Thai and getting residency.

The is a category to apply for residency for investment but is still requires a work permit. See: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_invest_en.pdf

[SteveB2]

13 hours ago, abab said:

 

 

I would have expected that being able to show few millions $ was enough. I am not going to work just to get any residency !

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Sir,  Should you have a few millions kicking around, then a 20 year 'Thailand Elite' Residency Document with multi-entry visa and concierge service is yours for the taking 

http://www.thailandelite.com/glimpse.php

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Permanent residency Applications are different...
 
With most Thai visa applications, providing the applicant satisfies all the published requirements, then with minor clarifications and additions requested at the whim of the immigration officer processing the application, the visa is usually issued.
 
Such is NOT the case for the granting of either Permanent Residency or Thai Citizenship.
 
The published requirements represent the barest minimum requirements for consideration by the CW IMMO PR team. 
 
Because... for PR and Thai citizenship, an additional confidential scoring system plus a committee is used to further vet PR applicants for suitability.
 
I have glanced at a copy of the scoring system, but am in no way privy to all sections - here is a collation of some of the sections used to vet applicant suitability as of my own application in December 2015.
 
Salary
BHT80,000-100,000                15 Points
BHT100,001-120,000              20 Points
BHT120,001 or more               25 Points
 
Married scoring system
2 years                                     5 points
5 years                                     10 points
10 years                                   15 points
15 years+                                 20 points
 
Applicants Age
20-30 years                             2 Points
30-40 years                             5 Points
40-50 years                             10 Points
50-60 years                             8 Points
60 years+                                 5 Points
 
Educational Qualifications
High School only                      3 Points
Higher vocational diploma     5 Points
Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points
Master’s Degree                      10 Points
Doctorate 1                              5 Points
 
Knowledge of Thai Language
Can speak & understand Thai language:8 Points
Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem:10 Points
Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points
Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points
 
There are many more sections in the manual which is about half inch thick document contains dozens of guidance notes for the scoring system.
 
With the Thai Permanent Resident and Thai Citizenship application processes now being very similar - a better idea of the additional vetting process(s) can be obtained by reading the attached official file for vetting citizenship applications. 
Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

Why Doctorate would score less than a Masters?
Nonsense.

[SteveB2]

17 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Why Doctorate would score less than a Masters?
Nonsense.

Typo of course. Sorry. 

Here's the corrected table below:-

 

Educational Qualifications
High School only                      3 Points
Higher vocational diploma     5 Points
Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points
Master’s Degree                      10 Points
Doctorate                                 15 Points

[klikster]

On 4/22/2017 at 2:29 PM, ubonjoe said:

You have to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency or citizenship.

Is this a recent change? When i was looking into getting a residence permit (no such thing a "permanent" in that category) about 10 years back, there was no mention of a work permit.  And my friend was a Major General and Saan Plu.

 

Is this outdated? http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/quota_detail_en.pdf

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, klikster said:

Is this a recent change? When i was looking into getting a residence permit (no such thing a "permanent" in that category) about 10 years back, there was no mention of a work permit.  And my friend was a Major General and Saan Plu.

 

Is this outdated? http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/quota_detail_en.pdf

Things certainly have changed since then for residency.

That document only gives the categories for residency.

This lists the required documents if married. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_th_sponser_en.pdf

 

[QuantumMech]

On 4/23/2017 at 2:09 PM, ThaiWai said:

"Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points"

"Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points"

 

How could you read but not write?  Is that someone with no hands??

 

I'd say that I can read Thai decently, but I don't do that well writing. Thai spelling can be pretty tricky--e.g., which of the 4 letters that make an "s" sound is the correct one to use in this word? Is there a silent letter at the end? Without a dictionary, I worry that my spelling will be the Thai equivalent of http://www.kidspot.co.nz/article+8032+563+8-kids’-spelling-mistakes-that-make-things-really-awkward.htm :)

[dbrenn]

Is the OP male or female? Different rules for females married to Thais to apply for citizenship.

[Arkady]

On 4/23/2017 at 4:26 PM, SteveB2 said:

Permanent residency Applications are different...

 

With most Thai visa applications, providing the applicant satisfies all the published requirements, then with minor clarifications and additions requested at the whim of the immigration officer processing the application, the visa is usually issued.

 

Such is NOT the case for the granting of either Permanent Residency or Thai Citizenship.

 

The published requirements represent the barest minimum requirements for consideration by the CW IMMO PR team. 

 

Because... for PR and Thai citizenship, an additional confidential scoring system plus a committee is used to further vet PR applicants for suitability.

 

I have glanced at a copy of the scoring system, but am in no way privy to all sections - here is a collation of some of the sections used to vet applicant suitability as of my own application in December 2015.

 

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000                15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000              20 Points

BHT120,001 or more               25 Points

 

Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

 

Applicants Age

20-30 years                             2 Points

30-40 years                             5 Points

40-50 years                             10 Points

50-60 years                             8 Points

60 years+                                 5 Points

 

Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

Knowledge of Thai Language

Can speak & understand Thai language:8 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem:10 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points

 

There are many more sections in the manual which is about half inch thick document contains dozens of guidance notes for the scoring system.

 

With the Thai Permanent Resident and Thai Citizenship application processes now being very similar - a better idea of the additional vetting process(s) can be obtained by reading the attached official file for vetting citizenship applications. 

Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

 

There are some similarities between the application processes for PR and citizenship but they are quite different.  Perversely PR is generally harder with a more burdensome requirement documents.  Those married to Thais can now skip the PR process and apply straight for citizenship. 

 

The table above headed "Married scoring system" is actually the system for years as a permanent resident.  Points for merely being married to a Thai and having a Thai child were scrapped from the citizenship process in 2009, after they amended the law to allow males married to Thais to apply without getting PR first.  You used to get 3 points for a Thai wife and another 2 points for a Thai child but they scrapped the entire "Relationship with Thai People" section (shown below) and bumped up the points awarded for years of PR from 10 to 20.  That obviously was intended to raise the bar a bit higher for those applying on the basis of a Thai wife without PR.  The points for working in Thailand were also seen as redundant, since they don't accept applications from people who don't work in Thailand and most have been working for 5 years or more.

 

Relationship with Thai People: (This section scrapped in 2009)

Works in Thailand – 5 points
Married to a Thai national – 8 points
Married to a Thai national, with children born in Thailand – 10 points

 

The points for salary are correct for applicants applying on the basis of PR but for those applying on the basis of a Thai wife, the minimum salary is B40K.  As pointed out by others the points for educational qualifications are also wrong.

 

It is a common misconception that having a Thai wife and family is particularly helpful in applying for PR.  Officials seem to like to convey this impression for some reason but the truth is that you can easily qualify without a Thai spouse and that having a Thai spouse and kids actually subjects you to demands for far more documentation without doing anything for your application.   The same is true for those who apply for citizenship on the basis of PR and don't have Thai families.  Even today the majority of applicants for citizenship are Chinese and Indians married to people from their own country.  If they are qualified, they get approved.  The same is true of unmarried applicants.  They just have to put up with the questions about why they have not yet found a Thai person they want to marry, even if they are clearly confirmed bachelors,  but, if they tick all the boxes they get through. If you are married to a Thai but have no children, you will have to answer questions about why you have no children.  That is just Thai culture but it will not affect your application.  I got PR as a single person and got citizenship on the basis of PR, not marriage.  I was married to a Thai by then without children but we hadn't registered the marriage for the necessary 3 years at that stage.     

 

   

 

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

Can I clarify that Doctorate = 15 points please? It looks like the number 1 got separated from the number 5.

[Arkady]

9 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Can I clarify that Doctorate = 15 points please? It looks like the number 1 got separated from the number 5.

 

Correct.  Doctorate = 15 points for citizenship applications.  There is no specific points system for permanent residence which is what this thread was originally about. 

[scorecard]

On 4/29/2017 at 12:57 PM, klikster said:

Is this a recent change? When i was looking into getting a residence permit (no such thing a "permanent" in that category) about 10 years back, there was no mention of a work permit.  And my friend was a Major General and Saan Plu.

 

Is this outdated? http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/quota_detail_en.pdf

I got PR 20+ years ago.

 

The imm. officer who did the first interview (spoke very advanced English), at Soi Suan Plu, immediately looked for my WP and annual Thai tax documents and scrutinized them.

 

He indicted clearly that two items were the 2 most important documents, he also explained to my agent that the regulations say 3 years but under about 6 or 7 years they won't progress the application. I had the WP and tax documents going back 7 years.

 

All in order. 

 

Whether the 6, 7 year 'policy' is still in place I have no idea.

 

Re, incorrect advise; I've mentioned before about a farang couple I met in Chiang Mai, their visa agent had told them that physically being in Thailand for 10 years brings automatic PR. And the 10 years of documents must show that visa / extension etc., documents have been lodged by the same agent, and the same agent must submit the application for PR.

 

All total bullshxx. 

 

More recently I'm aware of a foreign exchange student from Europe who has been studying here for a number of years, he's recently married his Thai sweetheart and they were waiting for his 10 years* in Thailand to come up so he can apply for automatic Thai PR. I mentioned to him the case I'm aware of in Chiang Mai.

 

*from a less than professional shop front near the students apartment.

 

He works part-time for a European company in Bkk and the company is keen to keep him here and in full-time employment, they got their internal farang lawyer to check the '10 year automatic PR' policy, the lawyer quickly reported there is no such thing. 

 

 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

I got PR 20+ years ago.

 

The imm. officer who did the first interview (spoke very advanced English), at Soi Suan Plu, immediately looked for my WP and annual Thai tax documents and scrutinized them.

 

He indicted clearly that two items were the 2 most important documents, he also explained to my agent that the regulations say 3 years but under about 6 or 7 years they won't progress the application. I had the WP and tax documents going back 7 years.

 

All in order. 

 

Whether the 6, 7 year 'policy' is still in place I have no idea.

 

Re, incorrect advise; I've mentioned before about a farang couple I met in Chiang Mai, their visa agent had told them that physically being in Thailand for 10 years brings automatic PR. And the 10 years of documents must show that visa / extension etc., documents have been lodged by the same agent, and the same agent must submit the application for PR.

 

All total bullshxx. 

 

More recently I'm aware of a foreign exchange student from Europe who has been studying here for a number of years, he's recently married his Thai sweetheart and they were waiting for his 10 years* in Thailand to come up so he can apply for automatic Thai PR. I mentioned to him the case I'm aware of in Chiang Mai.

 

*from a less than professional shop front near the students apartment.

 

He works part-time for a European company in Bkk and the company is keen to keep him here and in full-time employment, they got their internal farang lawyer to check the '10 year automatic PR' policy, the lawyer quickly reported there is no such thing. 

 

 

 

Quite right. Since the very first Immigration Act of 1927 PR has always been for people who have an occupation in Thailand. Since the introduction of work permits in the early 70s, it has been necessary to have one to apply for PR.  There has never been any such thing as automatic PR after 10 years in the Kingdom without a work permit. In fact, since the introduction of work permits there has never been any way to apply for PR without a work permit with the exception of the dependent spouse of a PR holder.