The Visa Non O Process

[oporhatch]

Dear Members  I am looking for some experience in the following matters

I am looking to stay in thailand for 8 months  on the basis of Marriage.

From a discussion I had with the Hull Thai consulate yesterday  - if I am getting it right (which is why I have created the post............proabably not !!) The following was stated to me 

 

1. If I get a 1 year O visa based on Marriage from London  -  I would still have to leave Thailand and do a Border Run every 90 days

2. If I get a 90 day visa from Hull/or London and then got a 1 Year Visa based on Marriage in Thailand,  I would not have to do a Border Run, but just do the 90 day reporting 

 

This seems a bit strange to me 

 

On another point , I will be living near the Cambodian Border (Aranyaprathet) and therefore would drive to the border. What does a border crossing involve . Could I just drive into cambodia

turn around once the other side (so to speak) and then come back ??  Or is there more to it than that 

 

Your assistance and experience is appreciated 

 

regards

Richard

[glegolo]

It is true what they say, but again here comes the mixup of terms.. buy a 90 day Non O VISA in England, and than go to your local immigration-office and apply for an extension of stay (1 year) and this is NOT a VISA it is called EXTENSION OF STAY and it is something completely different..

 

So that is OK..

 

Glegolo

Edited April 26, 2017 by glegolo

[elviajero]

1. Yes. Although any 90 day permit to stay can be extended by 60 days to visit your wife, OR by 1 year based on being married. Either cost 1,900 baht.
2. Yes.

That is not the best border for border runs to get a new 90 day stay and should cross elsewhere. Ban Laem would be a better option. Once you've entered Cambodia you can turn around and return to Thailand.

 

10 minutes ago, oporhatch said:

This seems a bit strange to me 

The multiple entry non-immigrant 'O' visa is meant for people that live outside of Thailand that want to visit more than once in a year. Visitors living in Thailand are meant to get extensions of stay from immigration. Many use the ME non 'O' to live in Thailand, but it's tolerated rather than expected.

[phuketjock]

It is hard to be certain as your info is sparse but it looks like

No 1. Is what is called a long stay or 1 year O-A Visa based on marriage, and to 

be eligible for this I believe, but am not 100% certain, that you will require, a. A 

medical certificate, and ,b. A police report. If this application is successful it can

give you up to 2 years stay in Thailand, after which or anytime during you can

apply for an extension of stay on the grounds of being married to a Thai national.

I may be wrong but I am not aware of any requirement to border hop on this visa.

No. 2. Is exactly as glegolo says above I believe.

Edited April 26, 2017 by phuketjock
correction

[ubonjoe]

1. A multiple entry non-o visa allows unlimited 90 day entries for a year from the date it is issued. You have to leave every 90 days for a new entry.

    You can extend any of the 90 day entries for 60 day at an immigration office to visit your wife.

2. You can apply for a one year extension of stay (it is not a visa) based upon marriage at an immigration office. You would only have to do 90 day reports to  immigration. You need 400k baht in a Thai bank for 2 months or 40k baht income.

 

You can leave and re-enter on the same day to get a new 90 day entry without a problem.

But the crossing in Aranyaprathet to Poi Pet is not a good crossing use for the entries since they have told people the cannot do the crossing there. You can south from there to the Ban Laem crossing and do it without a problem.

Probably best to park your car on the Thai side of the border and walk across and back rather than driving into Cambodia.

 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, phuketjock said:

It is hard to be certain as your info is sparse but it looks like

No 1. Is what is called a long stay or 1 year O-A Visa based on marriage

Wrong 

It is a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage. A OA visa is only issued based upon retirement if 50 or over.

[phuketjock]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Wrong 

It is a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage. A OA visa is only issued based upon retirement if 50 or over.

I stand corrected Joe thanks.

[elviajero]

48 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A OA visa is only issued based upon retirement if 50 or over.

For clarification. It's issued to any over 50's that meet the requirements and you don't have to be retired.

[tonray]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

For clarification. It's issued to any over 50's that meet the requirements and you don't have to be retired.

...you have to be retired as far as working in Thailand but can still work when out of the country.

[oporhatch]

Thanks for your input  -  originally I was looking to get 1 visa and pay only once, however it looks from above that I will at least have to pay twice.

 

If you do a border run do you have to pay for the new 90 day visa ?

 

I am looking to avoid a 90 day followed by a 60 day extension  (which would mean my visa's would be costing me £20 a month approx)

 

Again thanks for you assistance as I will move forward with the 90 day visa and then attempt to get a year extension. The questions (as always)

1) Does the Extension allow multiple entries into Thailand

2) Therefore, the  following year I could use this extension to go to Thailand again

3) In which case  -  would they allow me to extend it for another year , after the original extension - whilst out in Thailand

4) or is it easier to start again with the 90 day and then get a 1 Year extension

 

My intention is 5 months UK  - 8 Months Thailand at the moment .

 

Eventually I would go for a Retirement Visa (which I hear is a slightly easier process (not sure I believe that !!). Rather than jump through hoops at the moment (as I do not have any income and am living off savings until next year) -   Although I do have the required amount of money  stated above already in a Thai Bank.

Thanks for support and assistance

 

regards

Richard

[jeab1980]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

1. Yes. Although any 90 day permit to stay can be extended by 60 days to visit your wife, OR by 1 year based on being married. Either cost 1,900 baht.
2. Yes.

That is not the best border for border runs to get a new 90 day stay and should cross elsewhere. Ban Laem would be a better option. Once you've entered Cambodia you can turn around and return to Thailand.

 

The multiple entry non-immigrant 'O' visa is meant for people that live outside of Thailand that want to visit more than once in a year. Visitors living in Thailand are meant to get extensions of stay from immigration. Many use the ME non 'O' to live in Thailand, but it's tolerated rather than expected.

I would disagree with your last sentance completley

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, oporhatch said:

Thanks for your input  -  originally I was looking to get 1 visa and pay only once, however it looks from above that I will at least have to pay twice.

If you do a border run do you have to pay for the new 90 day visa ?

I am looking to avoid a 90 day followed by a 60 day extension  (which would mean my visa's would be costing me £20 a month approx)

Again thanks for you assistance as I will move forward with the 90 day visa and then attempt to get a year extension. The questions (as always)

1) Does the Extension allow multiple entries into Thailand

2) Therefore, the  following year I could use this extension to go to Thailand again

3) In which case  -  would they allow me to extend it for another year , after the original extension - whilst out in Thailand

4) or is it easier to start again with the 90 day and then get a 1 Year extension

My intent

Eventually I would go for a Retirement Visa (which I hear is a slightly easier process (not sure I believe that !!). Rather than jump through hoops at the moment (as I do not have any income and am living off savings until next year) -   Although I do have the required amount of money  stated above already in a Thai Bank.

Thanks for support and assistance

regards

Richard

If you get the multiple entry non-o you would only need one visa. You just leave and re-enter the country to get a new 90 day entry.

1. You need to get a re-entry permit if you want to leave the country to keep the extension. A single re-entry permit costs 1000 baht and a multiple 3800 baht.

2. You could enter the country use the re-entry permit to enter the country up to the date your extension ends.

3. You have to apply for the new extension while here.

4. You don't need a new visa unless you let your extension expire. It should not be that hard be here to apply for a new extension if you maintain the same schedule of being here.

[elviajero]

"Many use the ME non 'O' to live in Thailand, but it's tolerated rather than expected."

2 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

I would disagree with your last sentance completley

You're right. I should have said mostly tolerated. 

[jeab1980]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

"Many use the ME non 'O' to live in Thailand, but it's tolerated rather than expected."

You're right. I should have said mostly tolerated. 

With respect it shouldn't have even been mentioned it makes no difference to any immigration law within Thailand if you live here on a non o extension or a yearly non o visa based on marriage. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by jeab1980

[elviajero]

45 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

With respect it shouldn't have even been mentioned it makes no difference to any immigration law within Thailand if you live here on a non o extension or a yearly non o visa based on marriage. 

With respect, go and talk to a senior officer at your local immigration office and you will have a different opinion. Tourist visas are not meant to be used to live in the country, but have been used, and (mostly) tolerated by immigration, for years. The exact same applies to expats using multiple entry non 'O' visas. As expat numbers grow the enforcement of the way we use visas/permits will increase in the same way as it did with tourists.

 

Anyone that believes immigration have given those that want to live in the country a choice between proving their finances and jumping through the other hoops, or popping across the border every 90 days, is mistaken.

 

Visas are only required to enter the country. If you want to stay longer, once your permit to stay has expired, you should apply for an extension of stay. It's very simple to understand.

 

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

[jeab1980]

34 minutes ago, elviajero said:

With respect, go and talk to a senior officer at your local immigration office and you will have a different opinion. Tourist visas are not meant to be used to live in the country, but have been used, and (mostly) tolerated by immigration, for years. The exact same applies to expats using multiple entry non 'O' visas. As expat numbers grow the enforcement of the way we use visas/permits will increase in the same way as it did with tourists.

 

Anyone that believes immigration have given those that want to live in the country a choice between proving their finances and jumping through the other hoops, or popping across the border every 90 days, is mistaken.

 

Visas are only required to enter the country. If you want to stay longer, once your permit to stay has expired, you should apply for an extension of stay. It's very simple to understand.

 

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

I note what you say but as it's your take on it. A non o is not a tourist visa. I personally have never heard or had an immigration officer question me as to why I use the non o based on marriage route when I apply for 60 day extensions. There is a vast difference between using tourist visa's and border hops to gain more tourist visas and Non o's based on marriage.

Edited April 27, 2017 by jeab1980

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

I note what you say but as it's your take on it.

Which is why I suggest you speak to those that count.

 

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

I personally have never heard or had an immigration officer question me as to why I use the non o based on marriage route when I apply for 60 day extensions.

That just confirms the "tolerance". Walk into any office, tell them you want to live in the country, and they will tell you to get a 1 year extension of stay.

 

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

There is a vast difference between using tourist visa's and border hops to gain more tourist visas and Non o's based on marriage.

Not if they're using either to live in the country.

 

I assume you are using this visa to live in Thailand, therefore, I doubt you will be objective and will only beleive what suits.

Edited April 27, 2017 by elviajero

[jeab1980]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Which is why I suggest you speak to those that count.

 

That just confirms the "tolerance". Walk into any office, tell them you want to live in the country, and they will tell you to get a 1 year extension of stay.

 

Not if they're using either to live in the country.

 

I assume you are using this visa to live in Thailand, therefore, I doubt you will be objective and will only beleive what suits.

Your latest sentance can be applied to anyone including yourself. 

I assume you use an extension of a non o visa to live in this country so I doubt you will be objective and will only belive what suits. 

There is and has been a crack downs on back to back to back tourist visas and constant border runs for visa exempt. There has been no such  cracked down on non o visa's based on marriage. That should tell you something. However as you state people will decide for themselves which direction to go that's everyone's right to choose. If the Thai authorities allow things to run its nothing to do with us expats to question there stances

[Doiger]

54 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Which is why I suggest you speak to those that count.

 

That just confirms the "tolerance". Walk into any office, tell them you want to live in the country, and they will tell you to get a 1 year extension of stay.

 

Not if they're using either to live in the country.

 

I assume you are using this visa to live in Thailand, therefore, I doubt you will be objective and will only beleive what suits.

 

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

With respect, go and talk to a senior officer at your local immigration office and you will have a different opinion. Tourist visas are not meant to be used to live in the country, but have been used, and (mostly) tolerated by immigration, for years. The exact same applies to expats using multiple entry non 'O' visas. As expat numbers grow the enforcement of the way we use visas/permits will increase in the same way as it did with tourists.

 

Anyone that believes immigration have given those that want to live in the country a choice between proving their finances and jumping through the other hoops, or popping across the border every 90 days, is mistaken.

 

Visas are only required to enter the country. If you want to stay longer, once your permit to stay has expired, you should apply for an extension of stay. It's very simple to understand.

 

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

To me it completely depends on your situation, I have been happily married for 12 years and always used non o multi entry visas.

i have no problem showing the money if required for an extension but why should I since I work one month on one month off.

i think for you to say that people that are here on non o multi entry are playing the system is wrong.

i think I have just as much right to be here as every other person that has a visa or an extension to stay.

 

[Stocky]

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

Anyone that believes immigration have given those that want to live in the country a choice between proving their finances and jumping through the other hoops, or popping across the border every 90 days, is mistaken.

Excuse me, but that's just wrong, I'm here on a non-O multi and I did need to show proof of finances, 400k, not everyone goes to Savannakhet. I'm not fully retired so still leave Thailand for the occasional odd job, the wife and I also like to travel, so a multi-O suites well. 

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

There is and has been a crack downs on back to back to back tourist visas and constant border runs for visa exempt.

 

Correct on the last part - visa exempts - and there are specific police orders restricting those. 

 

On Tourist-Visas, the increased enforcement has been limited to validating where one is staying and possession of the 20K baht required to enter.   Granted, there is a punitive attitude at play, since those denied entry for not having the 20K Baht are not permitted to go to an ATM and retrieve it - but, for now, with rare "rogue officer" exceptions, those with the cash, an address, and a valid Tourist Visa are being admitted.

 

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

. Tourist visas are not meant to be used to live in the country, but have been used, and (mostly) tolerated by immigration, for years. The exact same applies to expats using multiple entry non 'O' visas. 

 

19 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

If a person entering has the requisite 20K Baht (for a Non-O 90-day or TR 60-day visa) and is not working illegally or a security-threat, they should be admitted, according to the law.  Any other action is by definition "rogue" - because it is in violation of the law and police-orders on the books.  Following the law is not "tolerance" - it is being professional.

 

That is not to say "tolerance" does not exist, but it is found in Consulates that issue visas without verifying proof-of-funds, and/or IOs that admit people who don't show the 20K Baht in cash. 

 

We should remember we are guests here and answer questions honestly to authorities with a polite attitude reflecting our status.  But expecting officials to follow the written laws and orders of their own superiors is not an unreasonable expectation.  Those superiors can, have in the past, and may in the future, change these rules.  By contrast, we "guests" have no say at all in what rules are written and enforced; our duty is to comply with those rules.

Edited April 28, 2017 by JackThompson

[jeab1980]

  20 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

 

I didn't post this think you'll find it was elviajero not I

[IMA_FARANG]

If you enter Thailand with a 90 day Non O visa based on marriage to a Thai you can extend that visa for a year as long as you can come up with either

• 400k Baht in your name in a Thai bank account OR
• 40K monthly for each year of the marriage visa/extension.

Having such funds available will get you a one year extension based on marriage to a Thai.

As long as you can do this annually you will not need to leave the country every 90 days, but you will need to file 90 day reporting with your local immigration office.

This has been the case for years.

If you have the funds this marriage visa/extension can be renewed each year

I would advise  you however, to get a get-entry permit each year with that annual extension in case for some reason you have to leave Thailand during that one year marriage

 visa/extension unexpectedly.

That exit re-entry permit will avoid having your marriage visa extension cancelled on leaving the country ad allow you to return with no penalty as long as your marriage visa/extension I still valid during that year.

A single exit reentry permit will cost you 1000 Baht for a single exit re-entry and will keep your marriage visa extension valid for a single exit re-entry. during that on year period.

If you want you may also purchase a multiple exit re-entry permit which allows multiple exit and re-entries during that same one year period..

A multiple exit re-entry permit will cost 3800 baht and for some may be regarded as an over kill, not really necessary. but it is good insurance as you never know what will happen back in your home country.

And like a good boy scout you should always be prepared

 

 

[jeab1980]

1 hour ago, IMA_FARANG said:

If you enter Thailand with a 90 day Non O visa based on marriage to a Thai you can extend that visa for a year as long as you can come up with either

• 400k Baht in your name in a Thai bank account OR
• 40K monthly for each year of the marriage visa/extension.

Having such funds available will get you a one year extension based on marriage to a Thai.

As long as you can do this annually you will not need to leave the country every 90 days, but you will need to file 90 day reporting with your local immigration office.

This has been the case for years.

If you have the funds this marriage visa/extension can be renewed each year

I would advise  you however, to get a get-entry permit each year with that annual extension in case for some reason you have to leave Thailand during that one year marriage

 visa/extension unexpectedly.

That exit re-entry permit will avoid having your marriage visa extension cancelled on leaving the country ad allow you to return with no penalty as long as your marriage visa/extension I still valid during that year.

A single exit reentry permit will cost you 1000 Baht for a single exit re-entry and will keep your marriage visa extension valid for a single exit re-entry. during that on year period.

If you want you may also purchase a multiple exit re-entry permit which allows multiple exit and re-entries during that same one year period..

A multiple exit re-entry permit will cost 3800 baht and for some may be regarded as an over kill, not really necessary. but it is good insurance as you never know what will happen back in your home country.

And like a good boy scout you should always be prepared

 

 

Or you can extend it to last 17months by extending for 60 days twds the end of the 90 days at immigration. Then do a border run get another 90day and repeat process. Quick border hops then another just before visa expires and repeat process.

Posted to give alternative way to use Non o visa

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

  20 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

I am not saying that someone shouldn't carry on using this visa. I am simply informing people about how the system is designed to work so that they can make informed decisions. Also should they get stopped from doing border hops they will know why and stop blaming everything on "rogue" IO's.

 

I didn't post this think you'll find it was elviajero not I

My apologies - bad quote-select by me.

[oporhatch]

Thanks again for all this valuable information 

 

One last question stated above 

 

If you have the funds this marriage visa/extension can be renewed each year

I would advise  you however, to get a get-entry permit each year with that annual extension in case for some reason you have to leave Thailand during that one year marriage

 visa/extension unexpectedly.

 

Is the entry permit combined/part of extension of the visa, or is that something you have to apply for completely separate

 

regards

Richard

[jeab1980]

31 minutes ago, oporhatch said:

Thanks again for all this valuable information 

 

One last question stated above 

 

If you have the funds this marriage visa/extension can be renewed each year

I would advise  you however, to get a get-entry permit each year with that annual extension in case for some reason you have to leave Thailand during that one year marriage

 visa/extension unexpectedly.

 

Is the entry permit combined/part of extension of the visa, or is that something you have to apply for completely separate

 

regards

Richard

You ask for it when getting the extension and it's done at the same time. However if you do not intend to leave Thailand during the year you don't have to get one. You can always get a single entry at the airport if an emergency arise s  in the year.  Before you fly.

[elviajero]

On 4/28/2017 at 6:15 AM, JackThompson said:

On Tourist-Visas, the increased enforcement has been limited to validating where one is staying and possession of the 20K baht required to enter. 

They have also restricted the avialabity of back to back visas from local consulates, and forced people to get multiple entry tourist visas from their home country with higher financial and document requirements. Big hint!

[elviajero]

On 4/28/2017 at 6:15 AM, JackThompson said:

If a person entering has the requisite 20K Baht (for a Non-O 90-day or TR 60-day visa) and is not working illegally or a security-threat, they should be admitted, according to the law.  Any other action is by definition "rogue" - because it is in violation of the law and police-orders on the books.  Following the law is not "tolerance" - it is being professional.

You seem to have a very naive understanding of the powers immigration officers have across the world. 

 

You have no idea about the orders, rules and regulations issued to and followed by IO's at the border. Just because it isn't published doesn't mean they don't exists.

 

Try reading section 16 (referred to by section 12. 10.) of the immigration act that effectively gives the powers to deny entry to absolutely anyone for any reason.

Section 16 : In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace , culture , morality , or welfare , or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group of alien to enter into the Kingdom , the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens from entering into the Kingdom. 

 

Genuine tourist don't need things spelt out. Only people like yourself that are living in the country using tourist visas are at any real risk of denial and cannot complain if/when it happens.

[elviajero]

On 4/27/2017 at 1:16 PM, jeab1980 said:

Your latest sentance can be applied to anyone including yourself. 

I assume you use an extension of a non o visa to live in this country so I doubt you will be objective and will only belive what suits. 

You assume wrongly. I am currently working in the UK and have a multiple entry non 'O' visa for my frequent trips back to my home in Thailand. When I move back permanently I'll go back to extensions of stay.

 

On 4/27/2017 at 1:16 PM, jeab1980 said:

There has been no such  cracked down on non o visa's based on marriage. That should tell you something. 

• People have been turned away from the Aranyapathet border to try and get a new 90 day permit to stay.,
• Penang recently increased the financial requirements to 400K.

That alone makes you wrong and should tell you something.