Auto scooter or a small cruiser (Phantom, Boss, Lifan, Keeway)

[canuckamuck]

Did you pay 20k?

[VocalNeal]

On 5/16/2017 at 5:52 PM, Agusts said:

I also feel the clutch stuttering when you start moving from stationary,

This is the easy bit. Juddering clutch is Usually nothing but a build up of dust in the clutch. The scooter needs a good run at 80 kph plus to blow all the dust out. 

 

14 hours ago, Agusts said:

while going up the hill from Patong to Phuket town I noticed the bike has really no power,

No engine power or the engine revved but the bike didn't go anywhere? How steep is the hill and how much power were you expecting?  Could be nothing more than a worn CVT belt if the engine revved and the speed was slower than you expected. 

 

Is the air filter plugged?

 

Sorry i now see the bike is at the dealer. So it should come back fine . Oh thought I should add that most of the mocy taxis on our soi have more than 67,000 kms and they run just fine. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by VocalNeal

[Namplik]

On 18.5.2017 at 8:46 AM, VocalNeal said:

This is the easy bit. Juddering clutch is Usually nothing but a build up of dust in the clutch. The scooter needs a good run at 80 kph plus to blow all the dust out. 

 

No engine power or the engine revved but the bike didn't go anywhere? How steep is the hill and how much power were you expecting?  Could be nothing more than a worn CVT belt if the engine revved and the speed was slower than you expected. 

 

Is the air filter plugged?

 

Sorry i now see the bike is at the dealer. So it should come back fine . Oh thought I should add that most of the mocy taxis on our soi have more than 67,000 kms and they run just fine. 

 

Eh, the Hayate is not a scooter and it has manual gear....

[papa al]

Hayate is twist-and-go scooter.

 

Recently used mocy taxi in BKK.

2011 Wave110i.

175,000km.

Guy says never any problems.

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by papa al

[Rdrokit]

12 minutes ago, papa al said:

Hayate is twist-and-go scooter.

 

Recently used mocy taxi in BKK.

2011 Wave110i.

175,000km.

Guy says never any problems.

 

Hayate has a 4 speed manual transmission.

 

Engine Type:

4 Stroke, Air -Cooled, 1-Cylinder, SOHC

Engine Displacement (CC):

113 cc

Power (PS@rpm):

8.3 bhp @ 7500 rpm

Torque (Nm@rpm):

9.3 Nm @ 5500 rpm

Bore:

51 mm

Stroke:

55.3 mm

Fuel System:

Carburetor

Fuel Type:

Petrol

Ignition:

CDI

 

 

Transmission

 

 

Type:

Manual

No Of Gears:

4 Speed

[VocalNeal]

48 minutes ago, Namplik said:

Eh, the Hayate is not a scooter and it has manual gear....

Sorry i must be confused? 

 

 

minutes ago, Rdrokit said:

Engine Displacement (CC):

113 cc

 

So not 125cc then?

Edited May 19, 2017 by VocalNeal

[Namplik]

Haha ;-) 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

 I thought this was a Thai forum and not one about motorcycles from India. 

 

However this is still a 113 cc bike and not a 125. 

 

here's some help http://lmgtfy.com/?t=i&q=Suzuki+Hayate+125+Thailand 

 

Nearest dealer I could find for your bike is in Kolkata, although there might be a few in Manipur state..

Edited May 19, 2017 by VocalNeal

[Richard-BKK]

The Thai version of the Suzuki Hayate is  a 125cc scooter with CVT and DCP-FI (fuel-injection) system. in India the Suzuki Hayate is a 113cc 4-speed manual gear motorcycle with carburetor....

[papa al]

6 hours ago, Namplik said:

Haha ;-) 

 

 

It's always good to laugh at oneself.

[Agusts]

Yes, I also came across that Indian Hayate when I was looking for the English manual of the scooter Hayate (did Suzuki really run out of names to reuse this... !?) - btw, still can't find the English manual, if anyone find the link please let me know.

 

I picked up the bike today, they said it was ready yesterday but so much rain here I couldn't go. In fact the mechanic took it out for test and engine run off today and came back 45 minutes after I arrived... ! (It was needed I guess considering the repair - see below)

 

The mechanic showed me all the bits he changed, well half the engine really, piston head, piston pin, piston rings, head gasket washer and other bits and bobs. I guess it was an engine overhaul. I feared the worse but he gave me the invoice and only 1600 baht total showing - not sure but I added up all the parts to that amount, although he wrote 700 baht labor this was not added for the total. I only paid the 1600... !!! (plus a tip for him.)

 

The bike now idles like a clock and it is very smooth and no issue I can tell, he said the clutch and transmission has no obvious problem right now - I guess the noise my friend heard was the engine not the gears.

 

A couple of things I still notice is that the power/acceleration is not comparable with Yamaha Mio 125 and Honda Click 125 that I recently rented, this is definitely slower in acceleration and up the hill. Although on the flat once it gets to 80kph it's very quiet and smooth, I didn't get a chance (and better not after an engine overhaul) but I am sure it goes a lot further, just not the same in torque and acceleration that I expect from 125 scooter.

 

Also I notice the throttle handle has to travel a long way to get to the end - I tried a few times but the engine really didn't care if I had full throttle, it was going at it's own pace and still fairly quiet (unfortunately there is no RPM to really see the numbers). So you have to change your grip  and I haven't come across this on many other scooters... is this just an adjustment issue or the nature of the throttle handle and engine on this model !?

 

All in all if I use this bike for 6 or 7 months it has paid for itself against the rental cost, anything more will be a bonus. It is very solid and smooth, no rattling funny noises or weird drag or movements etc...

 

(Story of immigration and green book transfer on my other thread....)   

[Richard-BKK]

You said that the previous owner only used RON95 fuel for the scoot. With you still having power issues after they fixed the problems with broken piston rings.

 

It’s possible the exhaust system, if you use high octane fuel RON95 with a low compression ratio engine it will prevent the fuel from burning efficient, this creates carbon which gets into the exhaust system, and cloaks up the muffler/silencer.

 

What you can try is to disconnect the muffler from the exhaust pipe for a short time and test the scoot, if it accelerate quicker… you found the problem. Be aware to not test this early in the morning as you will make a hell of a noise.

 

I have never opened a muffler of a Suzuki Hayate, but I guess it would not be much different that any other 110 ~ 125cc scooter. If you open it, it’s likely not serviceable and have point welding spots to lock it – you need to drill this welding spots to get access. Inside you find a steel pipe with holes which is packed with glass-wool wrap. Remove the glass-wool and clean the exhaust insides… if it’s a bit greasy and hard to clean it is helpful to through some gasoline over it and burn it… After that it is easier to clean. You can buy glass-wool at your local DIY store (I bought a meter at a Homepro in Bangkok). For a 125cc the regular for home use glass-wool is fine…

 

If you really worried about heat you can first do a layer of stainless steel wool…

 

You can close the exhaust muffler with a few plate-fasteners/screws of the right size… Homepro again has them...

[Agusts]

Thanks for the heads up about the muffler, I bear that in mind.

 

I think the bike engine is fairly good now, but I noticed from the cold it stutters a bit when moving from stationary, this does not happen at all when it is warmed up (!?), not sure but I am going to take it to dealer to check the clutch - and the variator (and weight bits) as well. The latter is because I think the power issue could be related to that as it feels it is in higher gear on the hills (maybe too quickly) and that is why it is struggling - it's fairly fine on the flat. We will see.... (I might as well ask them to open the gearbox and check the gear wheals and bearings as well.)

 

I want to go to Krabi with it, so want to make sure all the important trouble-maker parts are okay.... 

 

 

[Agusts]

So I went to Suzuki dealer and tried to explain the issues, but they don't really listen to what I say much, they just opened the clutch quickly and decided to change anything they could fine in there; clutch shoe (1024b), belt (590b), both variator plates/faces (about 380b) with all the other bits and bobs, 2429b (incl. labor).

 

It costs more for this 1 hour work and parts than the engine piston change ! They said the weight bits inside the variator is okay, they also wanted to change the clutch shoe housing, as it had some scratches along the shoe movement, but then decided to spare me of that and just sand-papered it a bit and said it will be fine. To be honest not sure if all the things they changed really needed changing but they are not really interested in pin-pointing a problem and trying to fix that specific issue, they just change anything that is easy to change. I have a photo of some parts I add later.

 

The bike is of course improved a bit for sure, but as I am being basically picky, I don't see it as becoming perfect, then again this is not a new bike so I should just be happy with it. It still struggles on the hills a bit, but on the flat it goes fine. It gets up to 60-80kph easily and does 100kph comfortably - this is on the bike odometer, so take off -10kph for real speed I guess.

 

I never got to ask about the gearbox, I think I will use it for a while now and see how it goes. I got this for 18k + 4k repair so far, worked out 22k, but at least I have quite a few new parts in there now, let's see how long it lasts.

 

One question regarding CVT, is this adjustable at all in any way, I ask because the bike idles really fine and comfortably, but you need to turn the throttle a bit before it engages, I could easily hear the engine revving up slightly before the CVT engages and then you move, while on other bikes it almost immediately engages and you can feel it, no gap - I didn't see the mechanic adjust anything when he put together the variator, belt and the clutch assembly... !?  (I guess you can increase the idle speed, but is that the correct workaround !?)

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Agusts

[Agusts]

The new clutch shoe they replaced with has about the same amount of thickness on it, and the outer rings on the variator plates are due to high speed, long distance travels that my friend did (that's why they changed it by the way....).

Edited May 28, 2017 by Agusts

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

It still struggles on the hills a bit,

Should have asked? You could have gone a bit lighter on the variator weights , if they had stock.

 

PCX in Thailand used to have 18 gms weights, same bike in Europe 15.  gms (from memory)  Could check my files if anyone is really interested. 

 

So you could have gone at least 1-2  gm lighter if in fact they had stock and knew what the actual weights were. Which would help a little on hills.

Edited May 28, 2017 by VocalNeal

[papa al]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

The new clutch shoe they replaced with has about the same amount of thickness on it, and the outer rings on the variator plates are due to high speed, long distance travels that my friend did (that's why they changed it by the way....).

 

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by papa al

[Agusts]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:07 PM, VocalNeal said:

Should have asked? You could have gone a bit lighter on the variator weights , if they had stock.

 

PCX in Thailand used to have 18 gms weights, same bike in Europe 15.  gms (from memory)  Could check my files if anyone is really interested. 

 

So you could have gone at least 1-2  gm lighter if in fact they had stock and knew what the actual weights were. Which would help a little on hills.

 

This is a very good point, I was thinking the same because it rides very comfortably on the flat and at high speeds, so could be using heavier than standard weights. But I forgot to ask the mechanic about the size when open, I looked at myself and can't remember any marking, I was more concerned about flats or deformation - I have asked the previous owner if he has changed the variator weights from standard.... (still waiting for a reply)

 

The bike brought me here to Krabi from Patong a few days ago without any issues, was lucky with the weather, perfect with no rain (which is rare these days).  Very comfortable and quiet ride, it gets easily up to speed on the flat and cruise at 80 or 90kph, even go to 110kph at 3/4 of the throttle, I don't normally ride in that speed, just momentarily to check it....

 

But yesterday I used my phone's GPS app (which I am not sure how accurate it is) and the help of a pillion passenger and realized the speed on the speedometer of the  bike is about +10kph over the GPS (tried at 60 or 80) - I hope 50kg pillion does not effect the test(!). I heard this is the same for many scooters - need to find another bike so we can go together in parallel and check with them too.

 

Is there anyway the speedometer can be calibrated or adjusted for this +10kph... !? (a bit annoying - are the manufacturers doing it deliberately on scooters to save lives... lol).

 

 

 

 

[Agusts]

Checked the speedometer a bit more, with a new GPS app on the phone and also riding next to other bikes, theirs are about 5kph slower than mine, so mine is about +10kph too much (and theirs just +5 kph too much) - I had also adjusted the tire pressures, in case.

 

So checked on the web, the old speedometers of old bikes were so easily repaired and adjusted - I am talking about 25+ years old, but I doubt these newer bike/scooter speedos can be opened and adjusted like that. Any ideas.... !?

 

Although not a big deal, just annoying to always discount 10kph off what is showing (I saw a guy on youtube put stickers on the glass for new speeds....!!! that is called a practical workaround, until it is washed off by rain .....lol)

 

[Richard-BKK]

To my knowledge all speedometers have a tolerance of about +10 km/h. Even expensive motorcycles or special after market clocks seem to all share the same issue... (probably an untold rule)

[papa al]

papa never looks at the speedo.

No need to when man and machine are one.

[Agusts]

To say I still have ambitions about cruisers and be true to the thread title, I gathered some vital stats (that where important to me) about budget cruisers mentioned, not easy, some from Indian pages - so correct if anything wrong:

 

Lifan 250-B carb  (2013)
HP	18 ?
Dry Weight	136kg
Ground Clearance	150mm
Seat height	700mm
Wheel base	1495mm
Length	2215mm
Tyres (back/front)	130/90-15,3.00-18
Brakes (back/front)	Drum/Disk
Lifan 250-B or 250-P (EFI)  (2017)
HP	18.4
Dry Weight	152
Ground Clearance	150
Seat height	671
Wheel base	1495
Length	2250
Tyres	5.00-15, 3.00-18
Brakes	Drum/Disk
Keeway Superlight 200cc (2013)
HP	12.74
Dry Weight	134
Ground Clearance	120
Seat height	730
Wheel base	1440
Length	2260
Tyres	130/90-15, 110/90-16
Brakes	Drum/Disk
Keeway Blackster 250 V-twin (carb/EFI) - Dorado (carb !?)
HP	19.18
Dry Weight	170
Ground Clearance	150
Seat height	688
Wheel base	1540
Length	2250
Tyres	120/90-16, 110/90-16
Brakes	Drum/Disk
Honda Phantom 200cc
HP	16.48
Dry Weight	140
Ground Clearance	130
Seat height	699
Wheel base	1505
Length	2256
Tyres	130/90-15, 90/90-17
Brakes	Disk/Disk
Kawasaki Boss 175cc
HP	15.2
Dry Weight	127.9
Ground Clearance	155
Seat height	681
Wheel base	1471
Length	2155
Tyres	130/90-15, 90/90-17
Brakes	Drum/Disk
Honda PCX 150cc Scooter
HP	13.5
Curb Weight	132  (Dry !?)
Ground Clearance	138
Seat height	761
Wheel base	1317
Length	1931
Tyres	100/90-14,90/90-14
Brakes	Drum (combi)/Disk

 

 

I added the PCX just for the comparison.

Also found two other Chinese cheap cruisers:

 

Zongshen Ryuka Cruiser 125cc      --->  new price  = 43k baht !?  

(this must be really under-powered at 125, reviews are not that good as expected, but looks nice though)
Platinum Monaco 200cc            --->  65k baht !?       (not much info about this one)

 

 

I am now trying to rent one of these for a few days to see if I like riding this type of bikes, hard work finding one in Phuket, been to a few places in Patong, Rawai and Phuket town, they all have large engine Harleys, Kawasaki Volcan or Honda Shadow etc. which are quite big and heavy with large engines and of course quite expensive. The guys at Patong beach who used to do it are gone. (In Rawai one guy has a totally modified Phantom with 400cc engine, huge shocks, forks etc. and so much customization it is nothing like the original, not much point of trying that...). 

 

I keep looking and if you guys know a place/person let me know, I am surprised the Phantom is not in more demand/offered for rent, there are so many of them about....!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rdrokit]

Check out Stallions. They make 150, 250 and 400cc bikes. I have a 400 and love the bike.

 

http://www.stallionsmotor.com/2016/

[Agusts]

2 minutes ago, Rdrokit said:

Check out Stallions. They make 150, 250 and 400cc bikes. I have a 400 and love the bike.

 

http://www.stallionsmotor.com/2016/

I was at their shop in Phuket town on Saturday, nice bikes - and unlike Honda they let you sit on their bikes (!?). 

 

But I like the sitting position, seat comfort, and shape of the cruisers...

[Richard-BKK]

I wonder how accurate the performance specifications are from your list. The ancient Honda Phantom TA200 offering over 16 horsepower, while the more modern very similar engine that can actually rev a bit higher from the Keeway Superlight 200 only has 12.74 horsepower.

 

Also with selecting a cruiser most people would not directly look at the horsepower of a cruiser, the torque specs are much more important. It’s very unlikely you going to use a cruiser to set a speed record… If you want to go fast on a 250cc class cruiser you’re seriously looking at the wrong motorcycles.

 

I never hear of a Platinum Monaco 200, but I know the Platinum Monaco 250 which is basically a copy of the old Honda Rebel 250 (parallel-twin).

[Nickymaster]

I was at their shop in Phuket town on Saturday, nice bikes - and unlike Honda they let you sit on their bikes (!?). 
 
But I like the sitting position, seat comfort, and shape of the cruisers...

Honda didn't let you sit on the bikes in their showroom?

[Agusts]

15 hours ago, Nickymaster said:

Honda didn't let you sit on the bikes in their showroom?

No,  I wanted to try the new Honda Rebel in Ao Nang and Krabi town,  they had big signs on them, when I ask the ladies I like the bike but want to just sit for a minute to feel the sitting position,  they looked horrified..... and said no way.....  !!!! lol

 

As for HP,  I think those that Richard queried are fairly accurate,  the Boss I'm not sure of,  I got that from some obscure internet page..... And yes the torque is also important,  should have collected that too. Have no idea about Platinum Monaco , it might well be 250cc....

[Agusts]

So finally found a Keeway Superlight 200cc for rent in Patong (a few years old and  about 14k km on odeo - also on sale for 49k baht), although they want to keep my original passport, there is no getting away from that for non-scooter renting here. So I am going to rent it for a few days and ride to Krabi and back and see how it goes and if I like it.

 

Although the battery was dead it started fairly easily manually - they are going to recharge the battery. I asked them if it is in good shape to go to Krabi and back but the two youngsters running that place know little about this bike, or anything, they just keep saying "chai", I hope it is, it looks in good condition and sounds healthy (I just think it was not used/rented for a while), no idea how good the clutch is though, is it 5 or 6 gears by the way, they don't even know that... !?

 

My only concern is what I do if it fails on the way or in Krabi, I hope small issues can be fixed by local mechanics, any major problem requiring parts will be a big hassle... 

 

 

[Richard-BKK]

20 minutes ago, Agusts said:

So finally found a Keeway Superlight 200cc for rent in Patong (a few years old and  about 14k km on odeo - also on sale for 49k baht), although they want to keep my original passport, there is no getting away from that for non-scooter renting here. So I am going to rent it for a few days and ride to Krabi and back and see how it goes and if I like it.

 

Although the battery was dead it started fairly easily manually - they are going to recharge the battery. I asked them if it is in good shape to go to Krabi and back but the two youngsters running that place know little about this bike, or anything, they just keep saying "chai", I hope it is, it looks in good condition and sounds healthy (I just think it was not used/rented for a while), no idea how good the clutch is though, is it 5 or 6 gears by the way, they don't even know that... !?

 

My only concern is what I do if it fails on the way or in Krabi, I hope small issues can be fixed by local mechanics, any major problem requiring parts will be a big hassle... 

 

 

The Keeway Superlight 200 is equipped with a 5-speed gearbox.

[ktm jeff]

The information i have on the Keeway 200 Enduro ( E ) and the 200 Supermotard ( M ) is  , 9.5 KW / 12.88 BHP at 7,500 , and 13.5 KW / 10 LB/FT torque at 6,000 .   I assume the Superlight has the same level of engine "tune".  They dont have much pressence in Chiang Mai , and the only dealer i found ( near the main junction on highway 11 ) appears to have stoped selling them. The 3 models  were all under 60K when new , but were selling their last ( ? ) Motard at just 45K earlier this year.  Used Superlight at 49K is 10/15K too much.  In 2014 i bought a Platinum PX 250 ( Enduro ) that has 17 BHP and 12.7 LB/FT.  Used off road , on motocross tires , it still going great , with the only problem being the "dealer" closed up in 2016.  If ANYONE knows where there is another Platinum dealer , PLEASE  PLEASE  let me know.  I havent needed , or had any problems , getting parts as many people say Honda parts are the same.  Unless you have a long time dealer near you , buying a Platinum may be an issue , although not due to any quality problems.

Edited June 26, 2017 by ktm jeff
Missed a word ( be ) out. Sorry.