Condos and Thai construction fraud

[JSixpack]

6 hours ago, JimCrane said:

are you getting quality there, or empty appearances?

 

If the appearance is kept up, what does it matter?

 

Quote

where does that leave me when the novelty wears of and things start falling apart because there is no real quality underneath?

 

It depends. Even if a building is well built, like the granite mausoleum for the ages you have planned as your final resting place, nothing will be impervious to time. Am I right or am I right?

 

If the building mgt is good, as it often is contrary to the infestation of finger pointers here, then things don't fall apart because they're fixed before they do. Or, well, not long thereafter.   The Royal Cliff Garden has been around for many years but hasn't yet fallen into ruin. So you might look for well-managed buildings.

 

If not, then you may decide that you can be happy even if the pool furniture is broken and grout on counters peeling off. That might involve adopting a more Zen-like attitude than you can muster at present, perhaps learning to think more like an average Thai. Then again you may find such imperfections simply intolerable. So many of us, having grown up as bluebloods & landed gentry, fear that being discovered living in relative squalor would endanger our places on the Sunday Times Rich List. Many of us are aesthetes with exquisitely delicate, easily offended tastes; and of course there are our ordinary anal retentives who regularly post scathing critiques of this and that here in our beloved cesspool.

 

So if you just really can't be happy in that building, and posting whinges here doesn't make you feel any better, then you move to another one in which you think you can be. Check the grout carefully in all prospects.

 

Hope we got that all sorted out.

[jubkhun]

Never a good idea to 'buy' any property in Thailand. In reality you don't actually 'own' anything if you know the law although I'm sure that some will be blissfully enjoying their property without a problem.

[Peterw42]

29 minutes ago, jubkhun said:

Never a good idea to 'buy' any property in Thailand. In reality you don't actually 'own' anything if you know the law although I'm sure that some will be blissfully enjoying their property without a problem.

You can own a Condominium in the same way as you own it in the west, Legal title.

[JimCrane]

On May 7, 2017 at 4:45 PM, JSixpack said:

 

If the appearance is kept up, what does it matter?

 

 

It depends. Even if a building is well built, like the granite mausoleum for the ages you have planned as your final resting place, nothing will be impervious to time. Am I right or am I right?

 

If the building mgt is good, as it often is contrary to the infestation of finger pointers here, then things don't fall apart because they're fixed before they do. Or, well, not long thereafter.   The Royal Cliff Garden has been around for many years but hasn't yet fallen into ruin. So you might look for well-managed buildings.

 

If not, then you may decide that you can be happy even if the pool furniture is broken and grout on counters peeling off. That might involve adopting a more Zen-like attitude than you can muster at present, perhaps learning to think more like an average Thai. Then again you may find such imperfections simply intolerable. So many of us, having grown up as bluebloods & landed gentry, fear that being discovered living in relative squalor would endanger our places on the Sunday Times Rich List. Many of us are aesthetes with exquisitely delicate, easily offended tastes; and of course there are our ordinary anal retentives who regularly post scathing critiques of this and that here in our beloved cesspool.

 

So if you just really can't be happy in that building, and posting whinges here doesn't make you feel any better, then you move to another one in which you think you can be. Check the grout carefully in all prospects.

 

Hope we got that all sorted out.

i would if i could afford to

 

that leaves me with either just accepting it (zen like) or complaining.

 

i choose to complain. glad your here to listen to it.

[jubkhun]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You can own a Condominium in the same way as you own it in the west, Legal title.

No you can't. Firstly you can never have a share in the land the condo is built on, secondly the majority of units must be in Thai name or Thai Company name. Check it out, don't take my word for it.

[KittenKong]

30 minutes ago, jubkhun said:

Firstly you can never have a share in the land the condo is built on

 

A farang who owns a freehold condo does indeed own a share of the land on which the condo is built (assuming that the building owns the land and doesnt lease it).

 

 

31 minutes ago, jubkhun said:

secondly the majority of units must be in Thai name or Thai Company name.

 

This is true, but a farang can still own his own unit and his own proportion of the common areas and land.

[Rimmer]

Please stay on topic which is about not paying condo maintenance fee.

 

There is a forum devoted to owning land and condos HERE

[Asiantravel]

 

When considering the possible remedies by other owners when one or more people fail to pay the condo maintenance fee or indeed fail to comply with any aspect of shared and communal ownership, in my opinion Thailand has extremely weak legal provisions when compared to other countries that do have a sound Strata Titles Act.

Countries like Malaysia Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia in their condominium Acts all have the equivalent of a Strata Titles Commissioner who is an individual rather like an umpire who has wide and sweeping powers to actually legally enforce remedial action swiftly on his or her own.

I see no provision in the Thailand condominium act which suggests here you have to go to court to resolve any disputes. A costly and time-consuming exercise.

[JSixpack]

6 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

When considering the possible remedies by other owners when one or more people fail to pay the condo maintenance fee or indeed fail to comply with any aspect of shared and communal ownership

 

The OP, to stay on topic, hasn't actually even made a case here yet that that the mgt has failed to comply with any such aspect or has in fact defrauded him. Looks like the neighbors are just making the usual level of noise yet he has no contract guaranteeing him perfect quiet. Looks like more a lack of due diligence on his part before buying. 

 

Quote

I see no provision in the Thailand condominium act which suggests here you have to go to court to resolve any disputes. A costly and time-consuming exercise.

 

any disputes is the usual exaggeration. A number of posters here have already suggested the usual ways of resolution that OP hasn't said he's tried yet. I think though we need a Strata Rental Commissioner to get our renters' deposits back from their landlords when they move.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

The OP, to stay on topic, hasn't actually even made a case here yet that that the mgt has failed to comply with any such aspect or has in fact defrauded him. Looks like the neighbors are just making the usual level of noise yet he has no contract guaranteeing him perfect quiet. Looks like more a lack of due diligence on his part before buying. 

 

 

any disputes is the usual exaggeration. A number of posters here have already suggested the usual ways of resolution that OP hasn't said he's tried yet. I think though we need a Strata Rental Commissioner to get our renters' deposits back from their landlords when they move.

 

 

Amazing, but a post I can agree with! I give that one a "like".

[digbeth]

Even if the OP feels he has been missold a defective condo, his gripe is not with the juristic person and thus, other co-owners, but should be directed at the developers

 

But even after completion and inspection, just before signing and taking delivery of the unit, if you're unsatisfactory then and feels that the wall has been built too thin, not sure if there's anything you can do if the specification of the walls and building materials is laid out in the contract

[JSixpack]

On 5/9/2017 at 4:46 PM, Asiantravel said:

When considering the possible remedies by other owners when one or more people fail to pay the condo maintenance fee or indeed fail to comply with any aspect of shared and communal ownership

 

The remedies of the co-owners against the OP when he doesn't pay his maintenance fees was answered earlier:

 

On 4/27/2017 at 0:01 PM, onemorechang said:

Sorry to say if you don't pay the fees, the water and electric

will be cut off , by the condo management

And interest will be charged on the overdue fees according to the condo policy; the fees owing will have to be paid before the condo can be sold.

 

This is normally sufficient to enforce compliance and in the OP's case I suspect timely compliance if he's going to continue to live in his condo.

[Farang hunter]

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

the wall has been built too thin

Right on... digbeth you would make a good lawyer ....as I clarified clear construction fraud

this is what I call common sense..thank you sir for your great input.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Farang hunter

[newnative]

39 minutes ago, Farang hunter said:

Right on... digbeth you would make a good lawyer ....as I clarified clear construction fraud

this is what I call common sense..thank you sir for your great input.

I don't mean to rain on your parade but hearing your neighbors is not necessarily construction fraud.  I think it would only be fraud if the builder specified a certain type of material in the contact and substituted a clearly inferior one.  For example, a builder might specify that the condos he is building will all have triple-pane windows.  If it turns out that he used only single-pane windows that could be grounds for legal action by the owners.  

[Farang hunter]

36 minutes ago, newnative said:

I don't mean to rain on your parade but hearing your neighbors is not necessarily construction fraud.  I think it would only be fraud if the builder specified a certain type of material in the contact and substituted a clearly inferior one.  For example, a builder might specify that the condos he is building will all have triple-pane windows.  If it turns out that he used only single-pane windows that could be grounds for legal action by the owners.  

I am sorry but you lost me after the first sentence. can anybody please help us both understand.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, Farang hunter said:

I am sorry but you lost me after the first sentence. can anybody please help us both understand.

There was a typo in my posting. I meant to type 'contract' rather than 'contact' so that might have made it confusing. Your issue is you can hear your neighbors through the walls of your new condo and you wonder if that is construction fraud.  The issue of noise is tricky.  Is no noise expected?  How much is too much?  When does too loud become first annoying and then unbearable?  Are you hearing noise when people next door are talking quietly or when the tv is blasting at full volume?  Things like that.  In regard to construction fraud, I think you and the other owners would only have a good case against the developer if the build contract specified a certain type of construction product and the developer substituted a cheaper product to save money.  I used the example of triple-pane windows specified on the build contract and the developer using much cheaper single-pane ones.  In regard to the walls between condo units, if the developer touted concrete block walls and used drywall instead, that would be construction fraud, in my opinion.  If the build contract said he would use drywall and he did use drywall, that wouldn't seem to be construction fraud--even if the drywall allows some noise through the walls at certain volumes.  Just my take.  You might see if you can determine if the specified materials were actually used.  If they were, I go back to my original advice to soundproof the walls if you don't want to move.

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, Farang hunter said:

I am sorry but you lost me after the first sentence. can anybody please help us both understand.

 

The word "fraud" you originally used is probably erroneous. The right word would probably have been "shoddiness".

 

Fraud involves promising one thing and delivering another of lesser quality. Shoddiness is just doing a crappy job with bad materials.

 

Both are common enough in Thailand but the latter is probably more likely in a condo development.

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by KittenKong

[Farang hunter]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Fraud involves promising one thing and delivering another of lesser quality.

Exactly when I buy a property I expect to have thick walls not Thin walls.

[KittenKong]

28 minutes ago, Farang hunter said:

Exactly when I buy a property I expect to have thick walls not Thin walls.

 

Indeed. But did the developer promise you thick walls? If so you have a case against him. If not then you have nothing, apart from the knowledge that your developer is shoddy (which doesnt separate him much from the pack, nor does it make him a fraud).

 

My condo was already built when I bought it so there were no promises about build quality to consider, and prior to buying it I lived in it for two years. That way I knew pretty much what I was letting myself in for. I cant hear average noise through my walls. Exceptional noise (rare as it may be) I can hear, and so if I hear it I know that it's exceptional and that I can justifiably complain about it and expect my complaint to be upheld.