Thai family funeral

[Kabula]

When they ask for a loan,   tell them, "I would rather keep you as friends!"

[paul18620]

7 minutes ago, henry15 said:

Not in Nakhon Sawan. I attend a dozens of  funeral there included  that from  my own wife.  The coffin is put in an refrigated box in sala, nicely decorated  with  flowers. Every evening the monks make there  prayers. Afterwords  everybody go home. In  Nakhon Sawan the open  the coffin  before they slided in thhe oven. Peopke put flowerleaves on the body of  the deceased. It all happens in a very  serene atmosphere. In all the cremations in Nakhon Sawan there was no music, no alcohol and no gambling. What described above is the Isan  way, in  Central Thailand its not like that at all

In Issan there is also no gambling or alcohol allowed at the house until the body has went into the fire.

Also open casket for the first day then they dress the body then put in in the nice sala and stays there for 2 days then off to the temple on the 3rd day and into the fire.

monks come 2 times a day once in the morning and once at night and after they say the prayers then it eat and drink soft drinks around 7pm -7.30pm

then close friends of the family tend to stay  there at the house till 10pm to keep the dead persons wife or husband company ,as they believe the dead person is around and now is a ghost and they are all scared ,even if the lights go out for some reason they think its the dead person who did it ,the Thai people believe this very very much.

 

The final day there should be some sort of cover from the sun ,and there will be people handing out water on a regular basis as well ,goes on a while though as few people talk and the dead family gives money to the local school and hospital and such like so there is a bit of show for this and take pictures and things, even the insurance company turned up at the one I was at to give the check and take a picture of it .

[Andrew Dwyer]

Not in Nakhon Sawan. I attend a dozens of  funeral there included  that from  my own wife.  The coffin is put in an refrigated box in sala, nicely decorated  with  flowers. Every evening the monks make there  prayers. Afterwords  everybody go home. In  Nakhon Sawan the open  the coffin  before they slided in thhe oven. Peopke put flowerleaves on the body of  the deceased. It all happens in a very  serene atmosphere. In all the cremations in Nakhon Sawan there was no music, no alcohol and no gambling. What described above is the Isan  way, in  Central Thailand its not like that at all

Yes Henry.
The funeral is being held in Chum Saeng as that is where the deceased lived, my gf and her mother are from Lat Yao.
The music is traditional Thai temple music I guess, am not really qualified to state, but is very loud.
There is definitely no gambling and drinking is only water and Pepsi but a bottle was being passed around and added to the Pepsi.

[peterb17]

22 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

It can last three days or more. Depends on wealth and status of the deceased.

Usually three days.

Be aware that the party will be at the house.

Dozens of villagers helping with cooking etc., maybe hundreds coming by for tambun (merrit).

It can be crazy loud (huge loudspeaker truck) and a lot of alcohol involved for the male guests.

 

The corpse will be in the house in a sealed casket (refrigerated).

A big poster with a picture of the deceased and name/birthday/age down to number of days.

 

Just before cremation at the temple ground it WILL be an open casket and a ritual "bathing" ceremony will be done on the deceased (sprinkling water or whatever by the closest relatives). The corpse is wrapped in some cloth, only head and hands to see usually.

Not everybodys cup of tea.

 

Cremation nowadays done in a closed crematorium on the temple ground.

 

When the fire is started loud bangers/firecrackers will be ignited, maybe "rockets" started.

After that hundreds of wrapped presents (coins or sweets) thrown around being picked up by the waiting children. Quite a "hullabaloo".

 

Usually in the early afternoon of the last day.

 

Bloody hot and exhausting to watch at this time of year.

 

It might be difficult for you to stay in the back seat as the villagers might be after you to offer you (fill you up) with food and alcohol. Deny with a smile in case.

 

The last comment ' deny with a smile' makes me so angry.

 

The women in the village will take ages preparing the food- you will be a sort of guest of honour- it's probably unlikely there will be other foreigners present- so the advice  to just refuse to eat is appalling. You can get round things if you can't  eat very spicy food- but accept food and a beer with a smile and thanks.

 

OP don't be worried about the open casket- it's usually open just before the cremation- close family members pour oil / place paper flowers - at the last funeral I was asked to  go as well- but very politely declined and explained was not really close family- but I don't think it would be too stressful.

 

There will be quite a lot of chanting etc before the actual burning - and a lot of white string involved!

 

Be prepared for a lot of gambling to take place- high / low is a favourite and police were there gambling as well.

 

if your gf's family are poor- a contribution for the food and drink would not go amiss- think I gave 5000 with was very gratefully received.

 

Next day family will go to sort through the ashes for bones, don't think you would asked to do that rather gruesome chore.

 

Get prepared - I spent hours wrapping up coins and bought loads of sweets - there will be firecrackers and chucking coins and sweets to the local kids.

 

My advice- don't step back and look on the proceedings as if you were some foreign 'God' get involved- in a way Thai funerals are sad- but there is a lot of celebration too- a far cry from the Western ghastly funerals where you watch a coffin disappear behind a curtain - it's much more hands on- nothing to be concerned about 

[Andrew Dwyer]

The last comment ' deny with a smile' makes me so angry.

 

The women in the village will take ages preparing the food- you will be a sort of guest of honour- it's probably unlikely there will be other foreigners present- so the advice  to just refuse to eat is appalling. You can get round things if you can't  eat very spicy food- but accept food and a beer with a smile and thanks.

 

OP don't be worried about the open casket- it's usually open just before the cremation- close family members pour oil / place paper flowers - at the last funeral I was asked to  go as well- but very politely declined and explained was not really close family- but I don't think it would be too stressful.

 

There will be quite a lot of chanting etc before the actual burning - and a lot of white string involved!

 

Be prepared for a lot of gambling to take place- high / low is a favourite and police were there gambling as well.

 

if your gf's family are poor- a contribution for the food and drink would not go amiss- think I gave 5000 with was very gratefully received.

 

Next day family will go to sort through the ashes for bones, don't think you would asked to do that rather gruesome chore.

 

Get prepared - I spent hours wrapping up coins and bought loads of sweets - there will be firecrackers and chucking coins and sweets to the local kids.

 

My advice- don't step back and look on the proceedings as if you were some foreign 'God' get involved- in a way Thai funerals are sad- but there is a lot of celebration too- a far cry from the Western ghastly funerals where you watch a coffin disappear behind a curtain - it's much more hands on- nothing to be concerned about 

Thanks for that.

I am not really worried about the open casket as I've seen 6 or 7 before including my ex MIL and FIL, just wondered if that would be the case here.

I am prepared to be hands on and so far the proceedings have been casual almost like a wedding or other family gathering.

The family are not particularly poor nor rich so I guess it will be typical, I'll be surprised to see gambling though.

So far the experience has been pleasant and rather interesting compared to other funerals I have attended in the uk and Brazil.

The food has been good so far, mainly some type of eel , don't know if that's a local thing or typical for this type of gathering.

[Tapster]

Are bodies embalmed in Thailand, or refrigerated (as was mentioned in a previous post) to stop them deteriorating before cremation. 

[SpokaneAl]

Are bodies embalmed in Thailand, or refrigerated (as was mentioned in a previous post) to stop them deteriorating before cremation. 

The bodies are refrigerated until the cremation.


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[khunPer]

1 hour ago, Tapster said:

Are bodies embalmed in Thailand, or refrigerated (as was mentioned in a previous post) to stop them deteriorating before cremation. 

Sometime (perhaps often) both embalmed to a certain degree, and kept refrigerated, after what I have experienced (embalming can also be a question of available funds). Normally – but it may vary form area to area, so I can only talk about those few areas I know – a funeral ceremony will take about three days (can be longer); but as some relatives may need to travel long distance, the body can be kept a few days in the city morgue before moved to a temple for ceremony and cremation.

 

Also in reply to OP's questions, which khunBENQ has explained very well...

The body is normally kept in a closed refrigerated coffin, but at last day, the cremation day, where the cremation takes place at Noon (or about Noon), the inner coffin with the body is taken out and normally covered with a piece of linen, which is removed before the coffin is pulled into the cremation oven. Here is a cleaning ceremony is held – which again can vary – for example cleaning the body with the water (milk) from fresh coconuts (poured over the body), and cover it in flowers, and throw coins in the coffin (for the Doorman, like Westerners did for the Ferryman). A modern oven is closed and burn the body at very high temperature, so almost nothing is left.

 

When the oven is cold, before Sunrise next morning – for example 4 am – a (very important) ceremony will be held when taking the ashes out from the oven. Before cremation of the body, a monk had placed the dead body's soul or spirit(s), there should be several in Thai Buddhism, in deceased's picture, often a photo in a frame. The picture with the soul(s) had stayed the night over in the deceased's house. Now the spirits need to find their way back into the ash. The picture shall be present and a monk will with a stick with draw a body in the ash, so the spirit(s) can return to it's (their) rightful place. This is very important, so the spirit(s) not end "homeless" as ghost(s). The deceased's house, or place where the deceased lived, will often be covered with white cotton strings, to clean it (and stop homeless spirits in returning as ghosts).

 

Furthermore to OP:

Just follow the rituals others are doing at the daily ceremonies, where monks will be chanting (each normally lasting about an hour). One day (evening) water will be poured from one cup to another (or glass or bottle); the empty glass symbolizes the deceased, the filled glass are good things each of us has done; slowly the water from "our" filled glass is poured into the deceased's empty, so we'll give some of our good stuff to the deceased, him/her can bring for the coming spiritual journey and have enough good works to be let into “the other side”.

 

Also, which may be little strange to Westerners (I presume, but things may have changed in the West), lots of photos will be taken, especially with smart-phones, even of the body during the cleaning ceremony.

 

Guests at the ceremonies – some come only one day, others all days, depending of how close they are related – will normally bring an envelope with some money for the survivors (relatives); the amount depending of how close the relationship is, and ones social (financial) status. A funeral can be quite expensive, as there may appear many guests, that shall be served food for, and monks are paid daily and given gifts, and temple and cremation shall also be paid for, etc. – can easily cost 30,000+ baht, around 100,000 baht may is possible; I mention this, as some Westerners may be surprised if it's close family and they are asked for help.

 

I'll share a few of my photos here from a Thai funeral ceremony...

 

The chanting monks and the closed refrigerated coffin. The young monk sitting on a chair is a relative, that for a periode (can be few days only) enters monkhood to help the deceased's spirit(s). A person from the village community may also speak. The lower part is the ceremony with the water – if not enough glasses or bottles, several will share by holding the arms of the one person pouring the water...

 

 

A collage with the cremation; moving the open coffin from temple building to the crematory, and the ritual there (in this case a little boy killed in a traffic accident). In the last insert, flowers and some personal belongings are burned at a bonfire outside of the crematory building...

 

 

This last collage is the ceremony with the ashes before Sunrise – may be different in other areas – where the monk with a wooden stick draw a body in the ashes, before the relatives fill into urns. Finally there are some additional ceremony for the urn in front of the monk, who are also given food (as usual morning food round). Some asks me why the dog is there? It just followed the monk...

 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Tapster said:

Are bodies embalmed in Thailand, or refrigerated (as was mentioned in a previous post) to stop them deteriorating before cremation. 

I think dependent on were it is and facilities available. I went to MIL funeral in Chon Buri (town) and the coffin was put into a big sealed metal box each night but it wasn't refrigerated. The water bathing etc happend on the first day and the coffin was sealed for the other 3 days, maybe the practicalities of no refrigeration.

The MIL died in hospital and there was some embalming, plugs put in nose etc and wrapping the body in a shroud done at the hospital morgue. On cremation day the young grand kids were handing out little sachets of herbs/smelling salts, again for a practical purpose.

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Sometime (perhaps often) both embalmed to a certain degree, and kept refrigerated, after what I have experienced (embalming can also be a question of available funds). Normally – but it may vary form area to area, so I can only talk about those few areas I know – a funeral ceremony will take about three days (can be longer); but as some relatives may need to travel long distance, the body can be kept a few days in the city morgue before moved to a temple for ceremony and cremation.
 
Also in reply to OP's questions, which khunBENQ has explained very well...
The body is normally kept in a closed refrigerated coffin, but at last day, the cremation day, where the cremation takes place at Noon (or about Noon), the inner coffin with the body is taken out and normally covered with a piece of linen, which is removed before the coffin is pulled into the cremation oven. Here is a cleaning ceremony is held – which again can vary – for example cleaning the body with the water (milk) from fresh coconuts (poured over the body), and cover it in flowers, and throw coins in the coffin (for the Doorman, like Westerners did for the Ferryman). A modern oven is closed and burn the body at very high temperature, so almost nothing is left.
 
When the oven is cold, before Sunrise next morning – for example 4 am – a (very important) ceremony will be held when taking the ashes out from the oven. Before cremation of the body, a monk had placed the dead body's soul or spirit(s), there should be several in Thai Buddhism, in deceased's picture, often a photo in a frame. The picture with the soul(s) had stayed the night over in the deceased's house. Now the spirits need to find their way back into the ash. The picture shall be present and a monk will with a stick with draw a body in the ash, so the spirit(s) can return to it's (their) rightful place. This is very important, so the spirit(s) not end "homeless" as ghost(s). The deceased's house, or place where the deceased lived, will often be covered with white cotton strings, to clean it (and stop homeless spirits in returning as ghosts).
 
Furthermore to OP:
Just follow the rituals others are doing at the daily ceremonies, where monks will be chanting (each normally lasting about an hour). One day (evening) water will be poured from one cup to another (or glass or bottle); the empty glass symbolizes the deceased, the filled glass are good things each of us has done; slowly the water from "our" filled glass is poured into the deceased's empty, so we'll give some of our good stuff to the deceased, him/her can bring for the coming spiritual journey and have enough good works to be let into “the other side”.
 
Also, which may be little strange to Westerners (I presume, but things may have changed in the West), lots of photos will be taken, especially with smart-phones, even of the body during the cleaning ceremony.
 
Guests at the ceremonies – some come only one day, others all days, depending of how close they are related – will normally bring an envelope with some money for the survivors (relatives); the amount depending of how close the relationship is, and ones social (financial) status. A funeral can be quite expensive, as there may appear many guests, that shall be served food for, and monks are paid daily and given gifts, and temple and cremation shall also be paid for, etc. – can easily cost 30,000+ baht, around 100,000 baht may is possible; I mention this, as some Westerners may be surprised if it's close family and they are asked for help.
 
I'll share a few of my photos here from a Thai funeral ceremony...
 
The chanting monks and the closed refrigerated coffin. The young monk sitting on a chair is a relative, that for a periode (can be few days only) enters monkhood to help the deceased's spirit(s). A person from the village community may also speak. The lower part is the ceremony with the water – if not enough glasses or bottles, several will share by holding the arms of the one person pouring the water...

 
 
A collage with the cremation; moving the open coffin from temple building to the crematory, and the ritual there (in this case a little boy killed in a traffic accident). In the last insert, flowers and some personal belongings are burned at a bonfire outside of the crematory building...

 
 
This last collage is the ceremony with the ashes before Sunrise – may be different in other areas – where the monk with a wooden stick draw a body in the ashes, before the relatives fill into urns. Finally there are some additional ceremony for the urn in front of the monk, who are also given food (as usual morning food round). Some asks me why the dog is there? It just followed the monk...

 

Thank you very much khunPer for that very descriptive post.
Right now we are at the end of day 2 and the " burning " will take place Sunday around 2 to 3 pm.
Your 1st photo could have been taken here as it is identical, my gf's brother ( grandson to deceased) is a monk and sits in pride of place during the chanting.
After the evening chanting some names are called out to come forward, on both occasions my name ( along with gf) have been called, seems very strange to hear my name among the Thai names [emoji4]. We then present a monk with an envelope on a tray, return to our seats and pour the water from a ( pewter ? ) goblet into a similar bowl, using our 4 hands to do the pouring.
The deceased died in hospital and was cleaned there then taken to the temple where she was in plain view for a while until going into the large refrigerated box.
Whether she was partly embalmed I do not know.
The first day had few people but today had more and I believe it will only increase as the deceased had 14 children, one of which ( my gf's mother) had 10 children !!
So come Sunday I imagine quite a gathering !!

[Colabamumbai]

It's party time.

[thehelmsman]

Pictures from one doesn't describe all of Thailand. In rural areas it's a stack of wood in the countryside. When the fire is lit candies are thrown into the crowd so as not to get the stench too strongly.

 

 

[Tapster]

Maybe a bit off topic, however definitely related:

 

Ages ago I came across this set of photos (below). 

 

The description in the link here is incorrect (and designed to be clickbait) but I couldn't find the original. 

 

Apparently this was the cleaning of several corpses, removing all the soft tissue, to save money and allow them all to be cremated together to save money. 

 

Does this sound likely? 

 

www.livingthai.org/crazy-jungle-autopsy-on-dead-man-in-thailand-gruesome.html

 

 

[biplanebluey]

On 5/6/2017 at 1:19 PM, Tapster said:

Maybe a bit off topic, however definitely related:

 

Ages ago I came across this set of photos (below). 

 

The description in the link here is incorrect (and designed to be clickbait) but I couldn't find the original. 

 

Apparently this was the cleaning of several corpses, removing all the soft tissue, to save money and allow them all to be cremated together to save money. 

 

Does this sound likely? 

 

www.livingthai.org/crazy-jungle-autopsy-on-dead-man-in-thailand-gruesome.html

 

 

Clicked on link but could not get pics Tapster

[Andrew Dwyer]

Thanks for all the posts, it has become apparent that there are slight differences in the funeral process depending on location or status of family etc. My family funeral was typical I guess as the family is large and the majority seem like hard working honest people.

Here is how mine went:

Day One:

Deceased passed in morning in hospital, body was cleaned and taken to the temple, casket was open for a couple of hours until placed in the refrigerated box. Some family arrived. Evening time monks chanting.

Day Two:

Some more family arrived. More chanting.

Day Three:

Pretty much the same as day two only had some invited guests, the mayor and hospital director.

Day Four:

A full crowd now. Plenty of praying/chanting, some young family members shave their heads and don the orange robe.

At 3 pm the refrigerated box is opened and the casket removed, a lid is fit to casket and taken, by cart, to crematorium. 3 times round the crematorium then several family members were called to the casket for a short prayer.

The lid of casket is removed and everyone is invited to approach and put one white flower on the body.

Sweets/candies are thrown to the children whilst the casket is prepared to enter the oven ( I think the lid went back on but not sure).

Long prayers and finally the body enters the oven.

What I found interesting was that as the crematorium is elevated you can't actually see from ground level when the body enters and is burnt but most people didn't wait for this moment. I could tell by the smoke from the chimney but most people were wandering away by this time.

 

Food and drinks were plentiful and some good homemade food ( water and Pepsi only, I had said previously that a bottle was handed round but it turned out to be some sickly sweet stuff some of the brothers added to Pepsi). Cake and juice boxes after each chanting session were handed out.

No gambling other than a couple of lottery touts in the temple grounds on last day.

At no time was I asked for a donation.

I was treated with respect and I felt humbled.

As it was a large family, the deceased had 14 children, many grandchildren, great grandchildren and a handful of great great grandchildren, it was just like any family gathering, my gf constantly being introduced to long lost cousins !

The dress sense on the first day was a little more relaxed, probably due to close family members dashing to the temple without thinking too much about the dress code but after this everyone was dressed appropriately, long trousers or skirts and shirts mainly black (or dark colour) or white.

 

 

A relatively simple affair I think.

 

Some family members.

 

The band.

 

The crematorium with smoke.

 

 

EDIT:

As if my gf and her mother didn't have enough on their plates !, my gf's youngest brother ( who is a monk ) got a call from the hospital on evening of first day to inform him that a donor had been found for his kidney transplant which took place Friday, let's leave this for another topic.

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Something I forgot to mention:
As I was watching the monks chanting, which went on forever, I couldn't help wondering how many of these 13 monks were there because they wanted to " follow the faith " and how many were there in lieu of a sentence or fine ??
The reason I say this is because they were a real mixed bunch, a couple of really small, really old guys who looked like proper Buddha material, a couple of young kids who didn't look like they were actually chanting at all, but the most suspicious was one guy with some real " prison tats" who on closer inspection had a barbed wire tat round one upper arm but on the other arm had a lizard tattoo with the word " RAMBO" written above it !!

[jeab1980]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Something I forgot to mention:
As I was watching the monks chanting, which went on forever, I couldn't help wondering how many of these 13 monks were there because they wanted to " follow the faith " and how many were there in lieu of a sentence or fine ??
The reason I say this is because they were a real mixed bunch, a couple of really small, really old guys who looked like proper Buddha material, a couple of young kids who didn't look like they were actually chanting at all, but the most suspicious was one guy with some real " prison tats" who on closer inspection had a barbed wire tat round one upper arm but on the other arm had a lizard tattoo with the word " RAMBO" written above it !!

Normal for monks all of ours have tats all over