Netanyahu tosses Hamas policy paper on Israel into waste bin

[webfact]

Netanyahu tosses Hamas policy paper on Israel into waste bin

By Ori Lewis

REUTERS

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu chairs a weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem May 7, 2017. REUTERS/Oded Balilty/Pool

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday symbolically tossed into a bin a Hamas policy paper published last week that set out an apparent softening of the Palestinian Islamist group's stance towards Israel.

 

In a document issued last Monday, Hamas said it was dropping its longstanding call for Israel's destruction, but said it still rejected the Jewish state's right to exist and continued to back "armed struggle" against it.

 

The Israeli government has said the document aimed to deceive the world that Hamas was becoming more moderate.

 

Netanyahu, in a 97-second video clip aired on social media on Sunday, said that news outlets had been taken in by "fake news". Sitting behind his desk with tense music playing in the background, he said that in its "hateful document", Hamas "lies to the world". He then pulled up a waste paper bin, crumpled the document into a ball and tossed it away.

 

"The new Hamas document says that Israel has no right to exist, it says every inch of our land belongs to the Palestinians, it says there is no acceptable solution other than to remove Israel... they want to use their state to destroy our state," Netanyahu said.

 

Founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, the banned Egyptian Islamist movement, Hamas has fought three wars with Israel since 2007 and has carried out hundreds of armed attacks in Israel and in Israeli-occupied territories.

 

Many Western countries classify Hamas as a terrorist group over its failure to renounce violence, recognise Israel's right to exist and accept existing interim Israeli-Palestinian peace agreements.

 

Outgoing Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said Hamas's fight was not against Judaism as a religion but against what he called "aggressor Zionists". Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas's leader in the Gaza Strip, was named on Saturday to succeed Meshaal.

 

Netanyahu concluded his clip by saying that "Hamas murders women and children, it's launched tens of thousands of missiles at our homes, it brainwashes Palestinian kids in suicide kindergarten camps," before binning the document.

 

(Writing by Ori Lewis; Editing by Susan Fenton)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-08

[humqdpf]

Bibi, as constructive as ever when it comes to building bridges and making peace!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, humqdpf said:

Bibi, as constructive as ever when it comes to building bridges and making peace!

Bibi is right on this one. Hamas is still a terrorist organization. They have not changed their stripes and they do NOT accept the existence of Israel. 

[humqdpf]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Bibi is right on this one. Hamas is still a terrorist organization. They have not changed their stripes and they do NOT accept the existence of Israel. 

Welcome to the world of conflict. If the UK government never agreed to be open to discussion with the Provisional IRA, we would still have people being blown up and shot in various cities in England and Northern Ireland (remember that the IRA did not believe that the UK had any right of government over any part of Northern Ireland, rather similar to the existence claim of Hamas who believe that Israel government has no right to govern over the land they call Palestine). Same with the Basques. Same with any group that somehow believes, rightly or wrongly, that they have been done down and want to have their land or sovereignty back. Some day the talking will have to begin as the alternative is just too terrible to contemplate.

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, humqdpf said:

Welcome to the world of conflict. If the UK government never agreed to be open to discussion with the Provisional IRA, we would still have people being blown up and shot in various cities in England and Northern Ireland (remember that the IRA did not believe that the UK had any right of government over any part of Northern Ireland, rather similar to the existence claim of Hamas who believe that Israel government has no right to govern over the land they call Palestine). Same with the Basques. Same with any group that somehow believes, rightly or wrongly, that they have been done down and want to have their land or sovereignty back. Some day the talking will have to begin as the alternative is just too terrible to contemplate.

 

 

Naive poppycock. 

Not the same conflict.

The Israel - Palestinian conflict is a very specific thing.

It is not Ireland. It is not South Africa. 

If you actually think this "change" from Hamas is an actual peace offering to Israel, you're simply not paying attention. 

It's actually about INTERNAL Palestinian politics and also PR aimed at naive Israel demonization aganda supporters internationally that they have changed when they have not. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jingthing

[PremiumLane]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Naive poppycock. 

Not the same conflict.

The Israel - Palestinian conflict is a very specific thing.

It is not Ireland. It is not South Africa. 

If you actually think this "change" from Hamas is an actual peace offering to Israel, you're simply not paying attention. 

It's actually about INTERNAL Palestinian politics and also PR aimed at naive Israel demonization aganda supporters internationally that they have changed when they have not. 

Palestine is now an open prison, and a lot of the world is waking up to what Israel is doing there. So, this isn't naive poppycock, talking is the way to resolve issues. 

 

There have been plenty of times this could have been started, but if not for the vetoes at the UN by the US and Israel. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Palestine is now an open prison, and a lot of the world is waking up to what Israel is doing there. So, this isn't naive poppycock, talking is the way to resolve issues. 

 

There have been plenty of times this could have been started, but if not for the vetoes at the UN by the US and Israel. 

You mean Gaza, right? You blame Israel for everything there. More poppycock. 

 

Another thing much of the world is waking up to is the irrational focus (especially in the U.N.) on the faults of Israel relative to much worse faults of other powers, including of course Middle Eastern ones. 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jingthing

[PremiumLane]

Just now, Jingthing said:

You mean Gaza, right? You blame Israel for everything there. More poppycock. 

No, I mean what should be Palestine. You can stamp and huff and puff and shout poppycock all you like, but unless there are meaningful discussions to resolve what is happening then it will just be a cycle of violence that we have now.

 

And yes I do blame the Israeli government for a lot of the mess that is going on today, Hammas ain't no angels but neither are the Israelis. 

 

If you don't think Israel hasn't turned Gaza into an open prison and  is doing collective punishment on a whole population (which is a war crime) then you are either utterly naive, or disingenuous. This kind of collective punishment does nothing but add to the cycle of violence And the other poster was correct, it is like Northern Ireland. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

No, I mean what should be Palestine. You can stamp and huff and puff and shout poppycock all you like, but unless there are meaningful discussions to resolve what is happening then it will just be a cycle of violence that we have now.

 

And yes I do blame the Israeli government for a lot of the mess that is going on today, Hammas ain't no angels but neither are the Israelis. 

 

If you don't think Israel hasn't turned Gaza into an open prison and  is doing collective punishment on a whole population (which is a war crime) then you are either utterly naive, or disingenuous. This kind of collective punishment does nothing but add to the cycle of violence And the other poster was correct, it is like Northern Ireland. 

 

 

What should be Palestine? Hamas and much of the west bank leadership thinks all of Israel should be Palestine so I consider your response disingenuous.

 

For the situation in Gaza, like you apparently, I see blame on both sides.

As Bernie said (though I would go stronger on the Palestinian leadership) there isn't the political will for negotiations for a two state solution on EITHER side, and BOTH sides are needed, including Hamas. 

 

In the context of this topic, Bibi is correct, the "change" in documents from Hamas is not a real indication that they are ready for good faith negotiations. It goes without saying that Israel isn't either. I didn't say Bibi is correct on everything or most things, but on this thing, he is. 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jingthing

[TheFishman1]

Bibi is 100% right they are terrorist 

[Jingthing]

Just now, TheFishman1 said:

Bibi is 100% right they are terrorist 

Yes, on this one, 100 percent. On everything, not. 

[Linzz]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You mean Gaza, right? You blame Israel for everything there. More poppycock. 

 

Another thing much of the world is waking up to is the irrational focus (especially in the U.N.) on the faults of Israel relative to much worse faults of other powers, including of course Middle Eastern ones. 

On human rights democracies are held to a higher standard which is quite clearly wrong

Quote

 

 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday symbolically tossed into a bin a Hamas policy paper

Trump: “I want to see peace with Israel and the Palestinians. There is no reason there’s not peace between Israel and the Palestinians – none whatsoever.”

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-believes-middle-east-peace-process-may-not-be-difficult

Trump  might want to check again about "no reason."

Will Trump say his now classic excuse - who thought the Middle East was so complicated?

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, humqdpf said:

Welcome to the world of conflict. If the UK government never agreed to be open to discussion with the Provisional IRA, we would still have people being blown up and shot in various cities in England and Northern Ireland (remember that the IRA did not believe that the UK had any right of government over any part of Northern Ireland, rather similar to the existence claim of Hamas who believe that Israel government has no right to govern over the land they call Palestine). Same with the Basques. Same with any group that somehow believes, rightly or wrongly, that they have been done down and want to have their land or sovereignty back. Some day the talking will have to begin as the alternative is just too terrible to contemplate.

 

 

 

The Provisional IRA were smart enough to recognize that Bush's war on terror would've included them. No more NORAID, American blind eyes and sympathy but active engagement. The ageing senior leadership saw a way forward that would legitimize them and took it. They aren't calling for the destruction of the protestant loyalist community in Northern Ireland or supporting an armed insurgency.

 

Hamas are still calling supporting the armed struggle against Israel and denying its right to exist. The Israelis are right to scorn such word twisting.

 

The Basques have been encouraged by the rise in regional representation within member states of the EU and the rise of nationalist popular movements like the Catalans, Corsicans, Scots, etc.

 

The Middle East terrorist are way behind the IRA or Basques on political maturity.

[gazza4]

4 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Palestine is now an open prison, and a lot of the world is waking up to what Israel is doing there. So, this isn't naive poppycock, talking is the way to resolve issues. 

 

There have been plenty of times this could have been started, but if not for the vetoes at the UN by the US and Israel. 

Israelis control the worldwide financial system. Say no more

[Jingthing]

Israelis control the worldwide financial system. Say no more

Your post is classic antisemitic garbage. Say no more.

[Jingthing]

Trump: “I want to see peace with Israel and the Palestinians. There is no reason there’s not peace between Israel and the Palestinians – none whatsoever.”
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-believes-middle-east-peace-process-may-not-be-difficult
Trump  might want to check again about "no reason."
Will Trump say his now classic excuse - who thought the Middle East was so complicated?
 

trump is a buffoon. Who really takes his word salad seriously?

[Trouble]

<deleted>

 

Two good Jewish friends returning recently from Israel came back with a different take on how Israel treats Palestinians, settlements and the like, than what the pro Israel press seems to report. Seems Israel could do with a little attitude readjustment as well as the Palestinians. 

 

The Palestinians were "forced" by the UN in the 1940's to make room for Israel.  Maybe the UN will on day get over trying to continue to make amends for the Holocaust and force Israel to live up to international norms in how they treat the Palestinians both within its borders and outside it borders and stop running roughshod over them.  Might just bring about a peaceful settlement if the UN dictated to both sides how it's going to be if they want to be part of the international community.  No one on this forum suggests that Hamas or other Palestinian groups haven't caused problems for Israel but Israel has not helped the situation either.

Edited May 9, 2017 by ubonjoe
Removed a comment that was a personal attack on a member.

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

The Provisional IRA were smart enough to recognize that Bush's war on terror would've included them. No more NORAID,

 

That comment is in the same category as Andrew Jackson being angry about the US civil war.     It would seem Trumpitis is a virus that can in fact be spread digitally via Television waves.

[Stargeezr]

As long as Hamas, a terrorist organization tries to speak for Palestine,  that country  is a terrorist controlled country  that  should not get any attention and no support from any country of the world.  If the people and the so called government keep  supporting Hamas, they do not deserve to have peace.  I am glad to hear that the leader of Isreal feels this way as well.

Geezer

[Kiwiken]

Israels Netanyahu and Hamas are on the same page. Neither accepts the other should exist. Different years but the song remains the same as in 1948. Not peace at negotiations but pieces at any cost. Lose lose

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Trouble said:

<deleted>

 

Two good Jewish friends returning recently from Israel came back with a different take on how Israel treats Palestinians, settlements and the like, than what the pro Israel press seems to report. Seems Israel could do with a little attitude readjustment as well as the Palestinians. 

 

The Palestinians were "forced" by the UN in the 1940's to make room for Israel.  Maybe the UN will on day get over trying to continue to make amends for the Holocaust and force Israel to live up to international norms in how they treat the Palestinians both within its borders and outside it borders and stop running roughshod over them.  Might just bring about a peaceful settlement if the UN dictated to both sides how it's going to be if they want to be part of the international community.  No one on this forum suggests that Hamas or other Palestinian groups haven't caused problems for Israel but Israel has not helped the situation either.

 

Jews having different views and takes on Israel, or the Israeli occupation, is not exactly news.

The UN does not have the power to "dictate" anything much, as the current war in Syria shows.

 

 

[Morch]

16 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

As long as Hamas, a terrorist organization tries to speak for Palestine,  that country  is a terrorist controlled country  that  should not get any attention and no support from any country of the world.  If the people and the so called government keep supporting Hamas, they do not deserve to have peace.  I am glad to hear that the leader of Isreal feels this way as well.

Geezer

 

Hamas does not represent all of the Palestinians, and hence, does not "speak for the Palestinians". It doesn't even control all of the Palestinian territory.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Israels Netanyahu and Hamas are on the same page. Neither accepts the other should exist. Different years but the song remains the same as in 1948. Not peace at negotiations but pieces at any cost. Lose lose

 

Nice try, but Hamas does not equate with all of the Palestinians. Israeli governments have differing views with regard to the level of Palestinian self determination, but there is no widespread overwhelming rejection as exemplified by the Hamas position.

 

[Srikcir]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Nice try, but Hamas does not equate with all of the Palestinians. Israeli governments have differing views with regard to the level of Palestinian self determination, but there is no widespread overwhelming rejection as exemplified by the Hamas position.

 

Good clarification.

I think there's confusion for some readers as to who leads Palestine. Ismail Haniya is the leader of the Hamas movement but he is no more the leader (aka Head of State) of Palestine than the current leader of the Democrat Party is the leader of the USA.

 

The current President of the State of Palestine Mahmoud Abbas is the Head of the State of Palestine. As such he is the recognized leader and representative of Palestine. Abbas now also heads the Fatah and the Palestinian Authority movements that compete with Hamas for Palestinian leadership. Recall that in November 2012 the 193-nation U.N. General Assembly approved the de facto recognition of the sovereign state of Palestine after submission by Palestinian President Abbas, not by any Hamas leader.

 

The Palestinian government structure is complicated as Hamas seems to have several functional roles. But Hamas does not currently represent nor lead Palestine as Head of State.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Good clarification.

I think there's confusion for some readers as to who leads Palestine. Ismail Haniya is the leader of the Hamas movement but he is no more the leader (aka Head of State) of Palestine than the current leader of the Democrat Party is the leader of the USA.

 

The current President of the State of Palestine Mahmoud Abbas is the Head of the State of Palestine. As such he is the recognized leader and representative of Palestine. Abbas now also heads the Fatah and the Palestinian Authority movements that compete with Hamas for Palestinian leadership. Recall that in November 2012 the 193-nation U.N. General Assembly approved the de facto recognition of the sovereign state of Palestine after submission by Palestinian President Abbas, not by any Hamas leader.

 

The Palestinian government structure is complicated as Hamas seems to have several functional roles. But Hamas does not currently represent nor lead Palestine as Head of State.

 

More complicated than that.

Abbas's term ended years ago, so whether or not his rule is legitimate could be an open question. As both Palestinian factions raise various obstacles to conducting elections, how much support each garners is unclear. So while Abbas may be considered as the de-facto head of state, it doesn't say much about his position as representing the Palestinian public.

[Srikcir]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

it doesn't say much about his position as representing the Palestinian public.

Domestically, Palestinian leadership is perhaps debatable.

Internationally, it doesn't seem so.

Recall Abbas made an address before the UN General Assembly in September 2016 as Head of State of Palestine.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-pa-president-mahmoud-abbass-speech-at-the-un/

If Israel/USA does any negotiations with Palestine it will be with President Abbas leadership and not Hamas.

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Domestically, Palestinian leadership is perhaps debatable.

Internationally, it doesn't seem so.

Recall Abbas made an address before the UN General Assembly in September 2016 as Head of State of Palestine.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-pa-president-mahmoud-abbass-speech-at-the-un/

If Israel/USA does any negotiations with Palestine it will be with President Abbas leadership and not Hamas.

 

 

More like an elephant in the room, rather than a full endorsement. Most views, at least by Western powers, lamely comment on the need for Palestinian elections, but very little pressure exerted. Abbas is seen as preferable to the Hamas, or to the chaos that might ensue if elections fail. Other issues exist with his potential Fatah successors. That Abbas is internationally embraced doesn't change the fact that he cannot fully commit (even if he was so inclined) to a peace agreement, nor can he enforce it's fulfillment.

[the guest]

Benjamin Netanyahu is a clown, nothing more. Why the world pays attention to this country is beyond me. 

[stevenl]

58 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More complicated than that.

Abbas's term ended years ago, so whether or not his rule is legitimate could be an open question. As both Palestinian factions raise various obstacles to conducting elections, how much support each garners is unclear. So while Abbas may be considered as the de-facto head of state, it doesn't say much about his position as representing the Palestinian public.

Of course it is more complicated than that. But He gave a good, brief explanation, that unfortunately you find reason with to blame the Palestinians.