Netanyahu tosses Hamas policy paper on Israel into waste bin

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, the guest said:

Benjamin Netanyahu is a clown, nothing more. Why the world pays attention to this country is beyond me. 

The world is very interested in the tiny global minority -- Jews.

If Israel was just another Muslim and/or Arabic nation in the middle east with internal and external conflicts, there would be much less attention. 

 

As far as Bibi, I can relate to seeing him as a clown, but now that the USA has elected a truly larger than life clown as president, he seems an amateur clown in comparison. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Jingthing

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Of course it is more complicated than that. But He gave a good, brief explanation, that unfortunately you find reason with to blame the Palestinians.

 

Blame the Palestinians? What are you on about?

I was simply adding more details in order to convey a better understanding of the situation.

Abbas is a head of state in name, how much authority he actually commands is questionable. These are facts.

 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 he cannot fully commit (even if he was so inclined) to a peace agreement, nor can he enforce it's fulfillment.

Abbas alone - no.

But the UN could greatly contribute to civil and military enforcement to fulfill a peace agreement.

If Abbas, Israel, the USA and the UN Security Council Five Permanent Members support UN civil and military support in the Palestine State (however it is defined in an agreement) such as was done in Kosovo, the political and military opposition of Hamas can be marginalized.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Abbas alone - no.

But the UN could greatly contribute to civil and military enforcement to fulfill a peace agreement.

If Abbas, Israel, the USA and the UN Security Council Five Permanent Members support UN civil and military support in the Palestine State (however it is defined in an agreement) such as was done in Kosovo, the political and military opposition of Hamas can be marginalized.

Yeah, that and 5 dollars will get you a latte at Starbucks.

One thing we know, resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is very difficult and complicated. 

If there were quick and easy solutions, they would have been done already.

Not saying give up hope, but don't go overboard with simplistic pie in the sky BS such as came out of trump's silly old mouth. 

IF there ever is a peaceful solution that is acceptable to both sides, expect the healing process take a generation or two to fully resolve. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Jingthing

[Srikcir]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

One thing we know, resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is very difficult and complicated. 

While POTUS Trump said Middle East peace is 'Not as Difficult as People Have Thought,' I didn't say it wasn't difficult. My comment was based on Morch's hypothetical scenario that a peace agreement was reached but couldn't be enforced by Abbas to fulfill the agreement. Use of UN civil and military intervention is not an issue of hope or simplicity.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Srikcir
typo

[Jingthing]

OK.

I think you exaggerate the potential power of the U.N. in that region. 

I still see the only real hope as direct negotiations between the two local sides, with oversight of other nations of course, but still both local sides need to agree, or you have nothing. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Abbas alone - no.

But the UN could greatly contribute to civil and military enforcement to fulfill a peace agreement.

If Abbas, Israel, the USA and the UN Security Council Five Permanent Members support UN civil and military support in the Palestine State (however it is defined in an agreement) such as was done in Kosovo, the political and military opposition of Hamas can be marginalized.

Hamas is not a minor element. It enjoys rather widespread popular support among Palestinians. This stems both from his stance toward Israel and, previously, as a less-corrupt alternative to the Fatah and the PA. Marginalizing a faction, which by some estimates commands about half of the popular support is easier said than done. Additionally, any moves Abbas makes against Hamas, which are enacted in tandem with Israel or the US, can be exploited to tarnish his  image as a "collaborator". That's without getting into them other elephants, such as Abbas's age, health and lack of designated successor.

 

There has to be at least a measure of Palestinian unity in order for negotiations to be meaningful. The issue with such a unity process is that unless Hamas moves even further from his current positions (which does not seem likely), agreements reached would still be suspect.

 

Israel's previous peace agreements with both Egypt and Jordan relied on these countries having a relatively stable regime, able to carry forth an agreement despite public opinion considerations.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The world is very interested in the tiny global minority -- Jews.

If Israel was just another Muslim and/or Arabic nation in the middle east with internal and external conflicts, there would be much less attention. 

 

As far as Bibi, I can relate to seeing him as a clown, but now that the USA has elected a truly larger than life clown as president, he seems an amateur clown in comparison. 

 

Quote

The world is very interested in the tiny global minority -- Jews.

No, the world is not interested. Stop playing the victim. Why do you say "Jews' and not 'Israeli's' ?

 

Quote

If Israel was just another Muslim and/or Arabic nation in the middle east with internal and external conflicts, there would be much less attention. 

Nope, you are wrong again. What the world is interested in is how each side is treating the other. IF Israel were populated by Hindu's and they were doing the same to Palestinians as the current occupants of Israel the world opinion would be exactly the same. There is no place for apartheid and open imprisonment in the modern world, especially when in recent history the perpetrators forefathers were subject to the same.

 

Quote

As far as Bibi, I can relate to seeing him as a clown, but now that the USA has elected a truly larger than life clown as president, he seems an amateur clown in comparison. 

I think we have two different types of clown here.

 

One is Netanyahu, the other is Trump, I think most people will guess correctly.

 

 

 

[Morch]

@Andaman Al

 

With regard to "world interest", pull the other one. There is no other conflict which receives a constant, similar level of attention from various UN bodies. No other country receiving the same amount of country-specific condemnation. If you feel that implies a balanced approach, I'll post a picture of another clown.

[Andaman Al]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

@Andaman Al

 

With regard to "world interest", pull the other one. There is no other conflict which receives a constant, similar level of attention from various UN bodies. No other country receiving the same amount of country-specific condemnation. If you feel that implies a balanced approach, I'll post a picture of another clown.

I think you have not comprehended quite correctly. Jingthing said

 

Quote

The world is very interested in the tiny global minority -- Jews.

And I said - no the world is not interested, as in "no the world is not interested in the tiny global minority - the Jews" - in direct response to Jingthing.

 

Quote

There is no other conflict which receives a constant, similar level of attention from various UN bodies.

I am sure you are correct. I am sure Israel would receive far less attention from the UN if it were not currently in breach of over 32 UN resolutions. No country in the world is in breach of more UN resolutions - Fact!

 

Quote

No other country receiving the same amount of country-specific condemnation

No other country in the world is illegally building settlements on land that is not it's own. The only other country apart from Israel that is acting in total defiance of any nuclear resolutions is North Korea. At least N Korea admits to having the capability. Despite the overwhelming evidence Israel refuses to co-operate with any international Nuclear arms treaties.

 

Much to the disappointment of some on here, as you see, I am NOT talking about Jews (or Palestinians) I am talking about a country that is openly in breach of dozens of UN resolutions and practices apartheid. We went to war and invaded other countries for being in breach of a handful of UN resolutions, and y'all thought that was justification enough - except in this case.

 

Get over yourselves. NOBODY is attacking Jews. A very sinister and bad man - Netanyahu is being attacked, along with his Government policies. Just the same as people (who disagree with that) who are attacking the very bad man - Trump and HIS Government. When we attack Trump I do not hear people say that we are attacking all Americans or Christians, but when we disagree with Israel and it's Government policies suddenly we are attacking Jews and being anti-semitic - an assumption that is wrong, it is tiring and it is VERY boring and past it's sell by date.

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I think you have not comprehended quite correctly. Jingthing said

 

And I said - no the world is not interested, as in "no the world is not interested in the tiny global minority - the Jews" - in direct response to Jingthing.

 

I am sure you are correct. I am sure Israel would receive far less attention from the UN if it were not currently in breach of over 32 UN resolutions. No country in the world is in breach of more UN resolutions - Fact!

 

No other country in the world is illegally building settlements on land that is not it's own. The only other country apart from Israel that is acting in total defiance of any nuclear resolutions is North Korea. At least N Korea admits to having the capability. Despite the overwhelming evidence Israel refuses to co-operate with any international Nuclear arms treaties.

 

Much to the disappointment of some on here, as you see, I am NOT talking about Jews (or Palestinians) I am talking about a country that is openly in breach of dozens of UN resolutions and practices apartheid. We went to war and invaded other countries for being in breach of a handful of UN resolutions, and y'all thought that was justification enough - except in this case.

 

Get over yourselves. NOBODY is attacking Jews. A very sinister and bad man - Netanyahu is being attacked, along with his Government policies. Just the same as people (who disagree with that) who are attacking the very bad man - Trump and HIS Government. When we attack Trump I do not hear people say that we are attacking all Americans or Christians, but when we disagree with Israel and it's Government policies suddenly we are attacking Jews and being anti-semitic - an assumption that is wrong, it is tiring and it is VERY boring and past it's sell by date.

 

No, I understood perfectly. Not like such nonsense wasn't posted before, you know.

 

The number of UN resolutions dedicated to Israel is exactly what is referred to above, No other conflict receives the same constant level of attention from UN bodies. Taking it as an indication of the grievousness of the situation is a choice, not a fact. The PRC in Tibet, Morocco in the Sahara and Turkey in Cyprus, India in Kashmir. None feature highly on the UN agenda.  Israel is no a signatory to treaties limiting it's nuclear arsenal, North Korea's story was somewhat different. Prattle on.

 

I'm not among those saying all criticism directed at Israel relates to Jews. I'm pretty confident some is, though. And as such, the generalizations you offer in the other direction seem pathetic. Nobody? Really... So save your nonsense for more appropriate targets, I rarely raise the antisemitic argument.

 

I dunno what "y'all" you refer to, with regard to invasions, but that's alright, you're on a roll with inane generalizations, so what's another one.

 

Netanyahu is an opportunist, self-promoting politician. Sinister? Not really. That's giving him way too much credit. 

 

Unless you missed it though, this topic is is about Netanyahu's reaction to the Hamas's new policy paper. Obviously, not a whole lot to say about either the paper or Netanyahu's reaction, other than the standard rant.

 

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Unless you missed it though, this topic is is about Netanyahu's reaction to the Hamas's new policy paper. Obviously, not a whole lot to say about either the paper or Netanyahu's reaction, other than the standard rant.

No, didn't miss it at all. I answered directly a post from Jingthing. YOU decided to leap in feet first and your intervention demanded yet another response. Your post is definitely more of a rant, and your use of the term 'prattle on' is almost becoming your catch phrase. So, if the post isn't directed at you don't jump in and if you do, do not imply things are going off track when you take them further off track yourself.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

No, didn't miss it at all. I answered directly a post from Jingthing. YOU decided to leap in feet first and your intervention demanded yet another response. Your post is definitely more of a rant, and your use of the term 'prattle on' is almost becoming your catch phrase. So, if the post isn't directed at you don't jump in and if you do, do not imply things are going off track when you take them further off track yourself.

 

If you'd bother reading discussion, you'd notice I actually did comment on topic, other than addressing your rant. Some of us can do both.

 

[CharlieK]

On 08/05/2017 at 8:37 AM, PremiumLane said:

If you don't think Israel hasn't turned Gaza into an open prison and  is doing collective punishment on a whole population (which is a war crime) then you are either utterly naive, or disingenuous. This kind of collective punishment does nothing but add to the cycle of violence And the other poster was correct, it is like Northern Ireland.

That is such rubbish, Hamas are to blame for the situation in Gaza, has they shown willing to live peacefully Gaza would be a better place. Also don't forget Egypt also shut down the crossing into Egypt because of Hamas. If it is an open prison it is one of the Gazan's own making they voted for Hamas.

[Kiwiken]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Nice try, but Hamas does not equate with all of the Palestinians. Israeli governments have differing views with regard to the level of Palestinian self determination, but there is no widespread overwhelming rejection as exemplified by the Hamas position.

 

Actually I am aware Hamas is only a faction and the institution running Gaza but trying to expand their influence into the West Bank. Netanyahu is the Leader of Likud and the radical right Coalition that rules Israel neither want peace. Sadly the Doves are sidelined and ignored on both sides

[JAG]

Israelis control the worldwide financial system. Say no more

Oh dear...
Has Julius Streicher been reincarnated?

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Actually I am aware Hamas is only a faction and the institution running Gaza but trying to expand their influence into the West Bank. Netanyahu is the Leader of Likud and the radical right Coalition that rules Israel neither want peace. Sadly the Doves are sidelined and ignored on both sides

 

Actually, Hamas won the last held general elections (2006), and one of the main reasons for delays in conducting further elections campaigns (general, local, presidential) is Fatah's assessment that could happen again. So as far as trying to portray Hamas as "only a faction" - good luck with that. Same goes for "trying to expend their influence into the West Bank" - Hamas is present, one way or another, in the West Bank, despite the PA's and Israel's effort to counter it's activities.

 

Netanyahu, relative to his party and coalition, is not an extremist. Hardliner when he can or when it serves him, yes. But not quite the religious fanatic or at a total disconnect from reality like some of the nutters on both sides.

 

Doves sidelined? That's a rather broad statement, and not easy to address without a clearer idea of which forces are considered dovish. 

 

As for major forces on both sides not being pro-peace, that's a given. Still doesn't make your previous post, and the direct parallel drawn, any more accurate.