Time spent outside U.K.

[jamie2009]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Last time I went to the hospital the lady asked if I been Resident for 6 months, lady answered for me of course you have. 

I think if you were black or had a foreign accent they would be asking for proof.

 

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, aslimversgwm said:

My point is - as I noted be4 - data is sent to the Home Office and can not be shared with other government departments under the Data Protection Act - and it is collected only as a means of controlling, or attempting to control, people over-staying on their UK visas and keeping track of known terrorists or people of that ilk. It isn't being used to check on British Citizens who don't need visas or are security threats!

Perhaps in theory, but from personal experience that is not the case. They can and do share information and act upon it.

[nontabury]

19 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Thanks for the above clarification which is the position as far as I understand.

There are posters on this site who believe that as long as you hold a U.K. passport you can return at any time and obtain free treatment notwithstanding the length of absence one recently claimed it was available to Thai visitors which is a nonsense

As you rightly state the NHS will not refuse treatment to anyone but you are then expected to pay

There are reciprocal agreements with a number of countries such as Australia whereby you can receive  "emergency treatment" for free but have never seen it defined

And why should't a British citizen,who may have paid N.I. For 40-50 yrs, and may still be paying UK. Tax, receive free medical treatment on the N.H.S. Just by simple showing his Passport. 

O.K. Maybe a better idea would be for the government to issue some type of card,into which it's printed that you made contributions for at least day 15yrs.

 

One thing I admire the Thais for, is they will always put their own people first.

For example,if a Thai returns to Thailand after say 20yrs, he is granted the respect of a Thai. He would only have to show his I.D or Thai passport In order to receive medical treatment in a Thai state hospital.

 

[nontabury]

18 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

You will get free treatment at point of entry, the NHS cannot turn a British Citizen away, or any other Nationality, come to that thats the problem .

Only for emergency treatment,the same as a non British citizen, Then you will be expected to pay,not only for the cost of further treatment,but an additional 50%. This is of course,even if you have paid into the system for 50yrs.

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

And why should't a British citizen,who may have paid N.I. For 40-50 yrs, and may still be paying UK. Tax, receive free medical treatment on the N.H.S. Just by simple showing his Passport. 

O.K. Maybe a better idea would be for the government to issue some type of card,into which it's printed that you made contributions for at least day 15yrs.

 

One thing I admire the Thais for, is they will always put their own people first.

For example,if a Thai returns to Thailand after say 20yrs, he is granted the respect of a Thai. He would only have to show his I.D or Thai passport In order to receive medical treatment in a Thai state hospital.

 

Sadly contributions/tax etc seems to mean nothing. The key factor in these cases is "residency". If you are not UK "resident" then the red flag goes up and charges will follow.

[aslimversgwm]

10 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Perhaps in theory, but from personal experience that is not the case. They can and do share information and act upon it.

Interesting! Assuming you are/were a British Citizen and not a security threat at the time of your 'personal experience' it would appear there was a breach of the Data Protection Act and/or your rights under Common Law and the International Convention on Human Rights. Did you challenge this apparent illegality in any way - i.e. by seeking legal redress?

[jamie2009]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Sadly contributions/tax etc seems to mean nothing. The key factor in these cases is "residency". If you are not UK "resident" then the red flag goes up and charges will follow.

Entitlement to Free NHS Hospital Treatment

As entitlement to NHS hospital treatment is primarily based on UK residency, if you have been living outside the UK for more than 3 months in the last year, or 6 months if you are a pensioner living in another EEA member state, you may be charged for your healthcare unless:

• You can provide evidence that you have returned to the UK with right of abode to resume permanent residence;

• You can provide evidence you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK legally for ten continuous years at some point;

• YoucanprovideevidenceyouworkinanotherEEA member state or Switzerland and pay compulsory (not voluntary) National Insurance in the UK;

• You can provide evidence you receive a UK war disablement pension or war widow’s pension;

• You can provide evidence you work for specific UK Government organisations abroad but were recruited in the UK, ie members of UK forces serving abroad, UK civil servants working abroad, or if you work for the British Council or Commonwealth Grave Commission abroad, or if your posting is financed by the UK Government in agreement with another government or public body;

• You can provide evidence you are a missionary overseas working for a UK based organisation.

UK State Pensioners

UK state pensioners who have lived in the UK for ten continuous years at some point in the past are entitled to ‘treatment the need for which arises during a visit to the UK’ free of charge.

Some UK state pensioners living part time in the EEA are fully

entitled to free hospital treatment during the period they live here. They must prove they live in the UK for at least six months each year and in another EEA member state for the remainder of the year and not be registered as resident in that other member state. 

[nontabury]

14 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Yes, they make it as difficult as possible for people to claim, and the current Far Right Tories are making it increasingly difficult.

I think you'll find it was the far Left Labour, who made it difficult for British citizens. 

Was it not Tony WMD Blair who fought the frozen pension issue through the E.U courts. This just being one example. 

[sandyf]

22 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Perhaps in theory, but from personal experience that is not the case. They can and do share information and act upon it.

Not all the time.

I am on a frozen pension and every year I get a tax refund because the Inland Revenue does not take it into account.

[jamie2009]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

I think you'll find it was the far Left Labour, who made it difficult for British citizens. 

Was it not Tony WMD Blair who fought the frozen pension issue through the E.U courts. This just being one example. 

Nope it was Cameron/Osborne, he also mentioned about stopping the State Pension for Expats.

[aslimversgwm]

4 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

Entitlement to Free NHS Hospital Treatment

As entitlement to NHS hospital treatment is primarily based on UK residency, if you have been living outside the UK for more than 3 months in the last year, or 6 months if you are a pensioner living in another EEA member state, you may be charged for your healthcare unless:

• You can provide evidence that you have returned to the UK with right of abode to resume permanent residence;

• You can provide evidence you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK legally for ten continuous years at some point;

• YoucanprovideevidenceyouworkinanotherEEA member state or Switzerland and pay compulsory (not voluntary) National Insurance in the UK;

• You can provide evidence you receive a UK war disablement pension or war widow’s pension;

• You can provide evidence you work for specific UK Government organisations abroad but were recruited in the UK, ie members of UK forces serving abroad, UK civil servants working abroad, or if you work for the British Council or Commonwealth Grave Commission abroad, or if your posting is financed by the UK Government in agreement with another government or public body;

• You can provide evidence you are a missionary overseas working for a UK based organisation.

UK State Pensioners

UK state pensioners who have lived in the UK for ten continuous years at some point in the past are entitled to ‘treatment the need for which arises during a visit to the UK’ free of charge.

Some UK state pensioners living part time in the EEA are fully

entitled to free hospital treatment during the period they live here. They must prove they live in the UK for at least six months each year and in another EEA member state for the remainder of the year and not be registered as resident in that other member state. 

Thanks Jamie - so as a UK pensioner and having live in the UK for at least 10 years in the past I'm covered by the NHS!

"UK State Pensioners

UK state pensioners who have lived in the UK for ten continuous years at some point in the past are entitled to ‘treatment the need for which arises during a visit to the UK’ free of charge"

[i claudius]

17 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

Nope it was Cameron/Osborne, he also mentioned about stopping the State Pension for Expats.

It was still labour and Tony Blair that didnt TALK ABOUT but DID IT ,the went to the court of human rights to fight against us getting rises , thats it , no argument .

[i claudius]

I know someone who has just had a hip replacement in the UK but lives here in Thailand , i still use my doctor in the UK ,he gives me meds , i also know another long time resident here who had free treatment in the UK , my doctor knows i am here , the hospital asked the others nothing .

[jamie2009]

3 minutes ago, i claudius said:

I know someone who has just had a hip replacement in the UK but lives here in Thailand , i still use my doctor in the UK ,he gives me meds , i also know another long time resident here who had free treatment in the UK , my doctor knows i am here , the hospital asked the others nothing .

The Doctors have said they are not going to 'play god' when it comes to treating you, it's up too the admin of the NHS.

The reason charges were introduced was there were loads of 'health tourists' not expats but from outwith the. EU who were coming too the UK for free healthcare.

These are the ones costing the NHS millions, they have no assets so they can't pay unfortunately Expats probably.do.

 

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Not all the time.

I am on a frozen pension and every year I get a tax refund because the Inland Revenue does not take it into account.

You've lost me,  how does that work or doesn't. 

[12DrinkMore]

52 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You say they must have Lived in the U.K. In two out of the last three years. Does that apply to citizens of E.U. Countries, especially those from the Irish republic?

 

Contact NHS directly.

 

I try to track what I am entitled to, but don't give much of a monkey's what other nationalities can get from the system.

 

[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

Nope it was Cameron/Osborne, he also mentioned about stopping the State Pension for Expats.

Wrong!  it was fought tooth and nail by Labour in the E.U courts. Having been challenged by a British ex-pat called Carson. The final judgement came out in 2008. Cameron came into power on the 11th may, 2010 in a Lib/Cons coalition.

 As a matter of further interest, the European court consisted of approximately 18 judges,representing different E.U. States. They rejected Carsons case, even though many of their own countries do not discriminate against their own ex-pat pensioners. 

[rockingrobin]

8 hours ago, aslimversgwm said:

My point is - as I noted be4 - data is sent to the Home Office and can not be shared with other government departments under the Data Protection Act - and it is collected only as a means of controlling, or attempting to control, people over-staying on their UK visas and keeping track of known terrorists or people of that ilk. It isn't being used to check on British Citizens who don't need visas or are security threats!

The Data Protction Act  consists of 8 principles and does not prohibit the sharing of information , (processing) , 

One of the conditions for processing is 

 

'  The processing is necessary for administering justice, or for exercising statutory, governmental, or other public functions '

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/conditions-for-processing/

 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

You've lost me,  how does that work or doesn't. 

You have lost me. It was a reply to the comment on information being shared.

If the DWP and HMRC shared information, I would get the correct tax code and there would be no need for any refund.

[jamie2009]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You have lost me. It was a reply to the comment on information being shared.

If the DWP and HMRC shared information, I would get the correct tax code and there would be no need for any refund.

My Tax Code has just been altered, before I didn't pay tax on a small Privare Pension as all of my Code was allocated to it, I didn't have any other income. I am now in receipt of my State Pension which combined with my Private Pension takes me over my Allowance of £11500. I now pay tax on my Private Pension but the amount of the allocated code is not enough so I will have too pay more at the end of the Tax Year in 2018.

i always think that the Tax relief they gave on your contributions is only tax deferred as you end up paying it back when you receive it.

Edited May 17, 2017 by jamie2009
Missed word

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

My Tax Code has just been altered, before I didn't pay tax on a small Privare Pension as all of my Code was allocated to it, I didn't have any other income. I am now in receipt of my State Pension which combined with my Private Pension takes me over my Allowance of £11500. I now pay tax on my Private Pension but the amount of the allocated code is not enough so I will have too pay more at the end of the Tax Year in 2018.

i always think that the Tax relief they gave on your contributions is only tax deferred as you end up paying it back when you receive it.

HMRC cannot collect tax from the state pension so it is collected from any other source of income. Unusual for them to underestimate, particularly on what could be considered fixed income. In my case they always assume I am going to get the pension increase, which as I said would go against the theory of sharing information.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You have lost me. It was a reply to the comment on information being shared.

If the DWP and HMRC shared information, I would get the correct tax code and there would be no need for any refund.

OK got it, happened to me 4+ years ago at first l telephoned HMRC & IPC they say it all be sorted out eventually,  and so it was, maybe yours will be sorted also. 

[KBsinter]

Often wondered I am not a resident of this country I have a British P/P lived there for 66yrs

and came here (Thailand) to live, all of us "Residents" who live here are Refugees, becaus

e ENGLAND  doe"s not recognise us this lot doe's not recognise us surely we are Stateless

folks,good reason for an appeal to the EU (BEFORE WE LEAVE) on us Stateless folk....lol 

[sandyf]

47 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

OK got it, happened to me 4+ years ago at first l telephoned HMRC & IPC they say it all be sorted out eventually,  and so it was, maybe yours will be sorted also. 

It doesn't bother me, been like a mini savings account now for the last 5 years. Got £200 back last week.

[brewsterbudgen]

Often wondered I am not a resident of this country I have a British P/P lived there for 66yrs
and came here (Thailand) to live, all of us "Residents" who live here are Refugees, becaus
e ENGLAND  doe"s not recognise us this lot doe's not recognise us surely we are Stateless
folks,good reason for an appeal to the EU (BEFORE WE LEAVE) on us Stateless folk....lol 

You're still a British citizen wherever you decide to live. Should you decide to, or have to, return to live in the UK, your pension will be index linked and you can get free healthcare.

[aslimversgwm]

6 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The Data Protction Act  consists of 8 principles and does not prohibit the sharing of information , (processing) , 

One of the conditions for processing is 

 

'  The processing is necessary for administering justice, or for exercising statutory, governmental, or other public functions '

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/conditions-for-processing/

 

Processing data and the details in the link you include is not connected with sharing data. It is guidance for those wishing to hold and record personal data on individuals. I had to understand this when I worked as an IT consultant advising businesses on their legal obligations as regards the 'processing ' and storage of said data. Sharing data even within an organisation let alone with another organisation be it a business or a government department is not permitted except with the individual involved or if it is subject to a criminal investigation. 

[Thongkorn]

On 5/16/2017 at 11:59 AM, i claudius said:

Its sold to them , as for govt agencies sharing information ,they dont,even the police dont , anyway most govt computer systems are not up to much ,they spend millions on them and they dont work

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So what about the protection act, then . this is illegal due to the fact your rights have been compromised, 

[Thongkorn]

8 hours ago, nontabury said:

Only for emergency treatment,the same as a non British citizen, Then you will be expected to pay,not only for the cost of further treatment,but an additional 50%. This is of course,even if you have paid into the system for 50yrs.

Have you seen any forieng person ever brought to court for non payment of a NHS Bill,  No becasue they fly straight out again after having there Publicly funded surgery.

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, aslimversgwm said:

Processing data and the details in the link you include is not connected with sharing data. It is guidance for those wishing to hold and record personal data on individuals. I had to understand this when I worked as an IT consultant advising businesses on their legal obligations as regards the 'processing ' and storage of said data. Sharing data even within an organisation let alone with another organisation be it a business or a government department is not permitted except with the individual involved or if it is subject to a criminal investigation. 

Here is the link again  https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/conditions-for-processing/

 

If we look at the example quoted it is clear that a company can pass on personal data to a third party so long as there is a legitimate aim, fair and lawfull

 

'

Example

A finance company is unable to locate a customer who has stopped making payments under a hire purchase agreement. The customer has moved house without notifying the finance company of his new address. The finance company engages a debt collection agency to find the customer and seek repayment of the debt. It discloses the customer’s personal data to the agency for this purpose. Although the customer has not consented to this disclosure, it is made for the purposes of the finance company’s legitimate interests – ie to recover the debt.

 

[HHTel]

On 5/16/2017 at 1:04 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

 

The rule is 

 

https://www.gov.uk/pip/eligibility

 

 

 

 

And an over riding rule is:

 

Citizens who return to the UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident, and will be eligible for free NHS care immediately.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations/summary-of-changes-made-to-the-way-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care