Future UK visas

[Trevor1809]

From the Conservative manifesto "Commitment to "bear down on immigration from outside the EU" across all visa routes"

Looks like settlement visas are going to get a whole lot more difficult.

[HauptmannUK]

I attended a manifesto launch presentation at my local CA last night (I am a long-standing Conservative Party member) and, yes, measures will be introduced in an effort to sharply reduce non-EU migration to the UK.  No specific details were presented other than that there will be an increase in the financial requirements for family settlement visas and English language requirements will be 'tightened up'. Reduction in number of student visas issued.  Full details sometime after the election I guess.

[Seekingasylum]

Well, given on current statistics 42% of all British working men and 52% female would not qualify as sponsors of settlement visa applications and at any one time some 15,000 children are separated from one parent or other because of May's nasty, mean-minded policies, I rather think fairly soon no retired person on any reasonable pension will be able to sponsor a return to the UK with his wife or partner. They better accept that in the event of a life-threatening illness they will have the choice of dying alone in the UK getting some treatment or other or staying abroad where the medical care may shorten life but at least one will die in the company of their life's chosen partner. Or, why not consider the many TEFL teachers who have married and accepted children from a previous liaison as their own who now wish to return to their homeland after a decade away who will have no alternative but to abandon their families until such times they are able to establish themselves in the UK, a process that could take months or even years.

Is it possible to be a Tory and a decent human being too? I don't think so.

May really is an evil nasty witch.

[Seekingasylum]

10 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

 and English language requirements will be 'tightened up'.

Fine I suppose if one is North American, Antipodean or South/West African but not so good for the Thai. 

In the circumstances, I shall be writing soon to General Prayuth asking that the Thai reciprocate this discrimination and compel British visitors who wish to settle in Thailand as spouses or as retirees to be conversant and literate in Thai to a competent degree.

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Seekingasylum

[12DrinkMore]

1 hour ago, Seekingasylum said:

compel British visitors who wish to settle in Thailand as spouses or as retirees to be conversant and literate in Thai to a competent degree.

 

That would eject about 99.9% of them out of the country.

 

Mind you, a good few of them have become so used to speaking in a weird pigeon English that they would be refused entry  into the UK.

[HauptmannUK]

1 hour ago, Seekingasylum said:

 

Is it possible to be a Tory and a decent human being too? I don't think so.

May really is an evil nasty witch.

Obviously I disagree with that statement!

I think the manifesto's stance on immigration is very much in line with current British public opinion and a sure-fire vote winner - polling done by CCO indicates its the most popular Conservative policy. In fact I would say that the majority of working class Labour supporters are also strongly against immigration.  Moreover I often see posts on TV from UK expats lamenting how the UK has changed due to mass immigration!

My impression is that hostility to immigrants (especially non-Caucasian) has increased sharply since the Brexit vote. My own wife (Thai) has experienced a couple of racist incidents here in the UK over the last year (and we lived in a very 'diverse' city).

Personally I don't know anybody who is not in favour of reducing immigration, and reducing non-European immigration is top of the list.

 

[Trevor1809]

I think what the public fail to take into account is if you allowed no non EU settlement visas at all it would hardly dent the immigration total figure but British sponsors are nothing in the scheme of things so losing a few votes lost offset against the votes that they will get. This is where I differ here from others on this site, as soon as to accept the premise that denying a settlement visa on the basis or earnings or language skills is not against Article 8 of the EHRC then anything goes. Uping the earnings limit to £186,000 per year and making the English language requirement a first degree are all possible.

[Trevor1809]

2 hours ago, Seekingasylum said:

May really is an evil nasty witch.

I just had to check whether w was next to b on the keyboard and that was a mistype. I suppose it is still a mistake that you could make.

[brewsterbudgen]

Fine I suppose if one is North American, Antipodean or South/West African but not so good for the Thai. 
In the circumstances, I shall be writing soon to General Prayuth asking that the Thai reciprocate this discrimination and compel British visitors who wish to settle in Thailand as spouses or as retirees to be conversant and literate in Thai to a competent degree.
 

If you want to immigrate permanently in Thailand you are required to pass a Thai language test. Most people here are here on a non-immigrant basis.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Seekingasylum said:

Well, given on current statistics 42% of all British working men and 52% female would not qualify as sponsors of settlement visa applications and at any one time some 15,000 children are separated from one parent or other because of May's nasty, mean-minded policies, I rather think fairly soon no retired person on any reasonable pension will be able to sponsor a return to the UK with his wife or partner. They better accept that in the event of a life-threatening illness they will have the choice of dying alone in the UK getting some treatment or other or staying abroad where the medical care may shorten life but at least one will die in the company of their life's chosen partner. Or, why not consider the many TEFL teachers who have married and accepted children from a previous liaison as their own who now wish to return to their homeland after a decade away who will have no alternative but to abandon their families until such times they are able to establish themselves in the UK, a process that could take months or even years.

Is it possible to be a Tory and a decent human being too? I don't think so.

May really is an evil nasty witch.

All UK governments and their leaders etc, are nasty and evil where the working class are concerned.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Seekingasylum said:

Fine I suppose if one is North American, Antipodean or South/West African but not so good for the Thai. 

In the circumstances, I shall be writing soon to General Prayuth asking that the Thai reciprocate this discrimination and compel British visitors who wish to settle in Thailand as spouses or as retirees to be conversant and literate in Thai to a competent degree.

 

Thailand depend on us retirees to boost their economy, if they started going through with learning Thai etc, the politicians pockets would get lighter, and there is no way they will allow this.

[sanukjim]

24 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Thailand depend on us retirees to boost their economy, if they started going through with learning Thai etc, the politicians pockets would get lighter, and there is no way they will allow this.

They were doing well before you (and your self importance) came here and they will continue to do well after you are gone.

[7by7]

It needs to be remembered by some that trip along the road to making family immigration to the UK more difficult and more expensive was begun by Labour.

 

It was Labour who introduced a new fees regime which meant that the fees charged are considerably more than the cost of processing the application.

 

It was Labour who introduced the principle of annual fee increases well above inflation.

 

It was Labour who introduced language tests and the LitUK test.

 

Labour also had plans, had they won in 2010, to introduce stricter financial requirements very similar to those introduced by the Coalition in July 2012.

 

Did Labour made any promise in their 2015 manifesto to ease the requirements, especially the financial requirement, for family migrants? Not that I can find.

 

They have pledged this time to scrap the income threshold, they have not, as far as I can see, said what will replace it. Nor have they made any commitment to reduce the exorbitant fees to a level more in line with actual costs.

 

Of course, some MPs, of all parties, are on our side; particularly on the matter of the financial requirement. I have previously mentioned the Parliamentary inquiry into new family migration rules, which reported in June 2013, and the matter is still of concern to some MPs, as this extract from Hansard on 30/1/17 shows.

Quote

10.50 am

Stuart C. McDonald

..........These rules are, essentially, the Prime Minister’s; she introduced them (when she was Home Secretary) and she made these migrants subject to the net migration target. What does it say about the Government that they have an official target that encourages the Home Office to pursue and implement policies that reduce the number of husbands, wives, children and parents able to come into this country? That is little short of appalling and shocking. I hope that the Minister or the Home Secretary will take away the powerful critique made by hon. Members today and will tell the Prime Minister that it is time to stop hurting families and children..........

Unfortunately, at present not enough MPs, of all parties, care enough about this matter to make any attempt to force a change. They don't care because most of their constituents, if they care at all, want to see immigration reduced and don't care how that's achieved. Even when it means breaking up families who can't meet this inflexible financial requirement yet are perfectly able to support themselves without recourse to any public funds; which they're not entitled to anyway.

 

Finally each quarter roughly half the immigrants to the UK come from the EEA. While a member of the EU there is little the British government can do about this. What will happen after Brexit remains to be seen.

 

Of the other half, most are students or workers; only around 20% are family migrants.

 

Like her predecessors, Labour and Tory, May is going for the easy target; even though she must know it's a target which will have little effect on the overall figures.

[Seekingasylum]

It was May who introduced the Appendix FM rules in 2012 and created the Skype generation of broken families, it is she who has ratcheted up the fees enormously to a degree that they are now punitive and act as a deterrent. It was she who withdrew all appeal rights. It is she who will ensure EU citizens are treated the same as the rest of the world and Britain will once again become isolated form the world and she with her grammar schools and devotion to her white Anglican God shall take England back to the 1950s.

The woman is insane now with an emerging power she never dreamed of wielding before her bizarre election as the default leader. 

<removed>

[rasg]

The main reason that so many Brits want to see immigration reduced is that Blair and co allowed unfettered access to anybody who wanted to come from anywhere in the world. The number of illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers and the news channels showing the camps at Calais week after week  and the fact that the very fabric of many parts of the country was totally changed that has led us to this point.

 

I remember William Hague's speech that was roundly condemned as racist which would sound quite mild in comparison to what many politicians have to say nowadays.

 

Sure. Blair and co back pedalled well into their 13 years in power and started to introduce powers to limit the number of  people coming from outside the EU. A total waste of time as anybody can come from the EU. 

 

That can now change now we are leaving the EU.

 

I remember idly thinking of working in the US, Oz or Canada when I was around 19 and finding that without medical or teaching or similar professional qualifications that those countries wouldn’t have me. Those countries have had immigration rules for decades and it's about time that the UK got to pick and choose the brightest and best immigrants that we want and not allow just anybody to come here and take advantage of the UK's generosity.

 

I have my views on the current visa system and believe that if a UK citizen has the temerity to fall in love with, say, a Thai national the visa rules should be different.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

49 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

They were doing well before you (and your self importance) came here and they will continue to do well after you are gone.

[Trevor1809]

7by7 is absolutely right that Labour are no friends of anybody with a non EU spouse but I suppose the difference between them and the nasty party is that they don't stand a snowball in hells chance of forming the next Government. I have already challenged a Conservative canvesser, before the manifesto came out. Interestingly he had a non EU spouse but was clueless as to the cost of the NHS surcharge as his wife was a doctor and didn't have to pay the surcharge. Other than that a complete DH.

I am looking forward to the Labour candidate coming round as he has Polish ancestary so the attitude to the soon to be status of EU migrants in the new non EU UK verses the attidude to non EU spouses (including Polish??????) will intersting. As for the Liberal Democrats, 2010 Clegg promised an amnesty to all illegal immigrants then got into bed with the Conservatives and not a squeak about the 2012 changes that kicked all this off.

[7by7]

55 minutes ago, Seekingasylum said:

It was May who introduced the Appendix FM rules in 2012 and created the Skype generation of broken families,

True; but as I said Labour prior to the 2010 election had similar plans.

 

55 minutes ago, Seekingasylum said:

it is she who has ratcheted up the fees enormously to a degree that they are now punitive and act as a deterrent.

It was Labour who started this, the Coalition and then the Tories alone simply carried on what Labour had started.

 

55 minutes ago, Seekingasylum said:

It was she who withdrew all appeal rights.

True; but Labour didn't object at the time and have made no commitment to reintroduce them.

 

55 minutes ago, Seekingasylum said:

It is she who will ensure EU citizens are treated the same as the rest of the world and Britain will once again become isolated form the world

No; it was the referendum result which did this.  May was a Remainer and is now trying to make the best of a bad decision. Whilst I am no particular fan of her or her party, I do believe she will make a better job of this, and obtain a more favourable agreement for the UK, than Corbyn would. But this is not the place to discuss that; there are several topics in News where one can do so.

 

The rest of your post is simply too bizarre to be worthy of comment; especially the last sentence!

 

Edit: I see the Mods have now removed that last sentence; well done them.

Edited May 19, 2017 by 7by7

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, Trevor1809 said:

Interestingly he had a non EU spouse but was clueless as to the cost of the NHS surcharge as his wife was a doctor and didn't have to pay the surcharge

Are you sure?

 

As far as I am aware, apart from a couple of exceptions (see here) all family migrants have to pay the surcharge as do all those entering the UK under the Points Based System; even if they are coming to work for the NHS.

 

I suggest the reason he was unaware of it is because his wife entered the UK prior to it's introduction.

Edited May 19, 2017 by 7by7

[ujayujay]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If you want to immigrate permanently in Thailand you are required to pass a Thai language test. Most people here are here on a non-immigrant basis.

No, you confusing something. If you want get the Citizenship you have to go thru thai language test, not for a permanent visa.

[brewsterbudgen]

No, you confusing something. If you want get the Citizenship you have to go thru thai language test, not for a permanent visa.

There is no such thing as a "permanent visa". Extensions are available but have to be renewed each year. A UK settlement visa is the first stage to ILR.

[Trevor1809]

43 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

"

1 hour ago, Seekingasylum said:

It is she who will ensure EU citizens are treated the same as the rest of the world and Britain will once again become isolated form the world

No; it was the referendum result which did this"

 

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? The referendum was just in or out and acceptance of the pathetic package that DC negotiated. Nobody knew what would happen but my "expectation" was that EU migrants would be treated the same as non EU migrants. It has only been the whinging by employers that has changed.

May talks tough but with every buiness leader whinging on about allowing the free movement of EU nationals to continue so that the pool of labour doesn't dry up will carry the day I am afraid. I am convinced May will cave in over this one.

There was a spokesman from the special effects industry whinging on last night complaing about how the doubling of the £1000 fee is going to break the industry and how they should be allowed to bring in non EU workers for free. If an increase from £1000 to £2000 is going to break industries how on earth does he think we can cope. ILR is already more that £2000.

[HauptmannUK]

I feel that the UK has turned a corner since the referendum. People are now much more comfortable about saying that immigration should be stopped.

I had my haircut the other day and the barber was telling me how he was looking forward to Polish people being deported after we leave the EU. I have known him quite a few years and never heard that kind of comment before. I was a bit gobsmacked. I also feel that there is growing ill-feeling toward expats - resentment toward expats coming back to the UK to use the NHS... Public opinion is certainly changing very rapidly and there is definitely an appetite for very stringent immigration controls - from EU and non-EU.

[Tony M]

We are still waiting, of course, for the Home Office to make some kind of decision on the settlement applications that are on hold because of the Supreme Court decision.   The Supreme Court said that the Home Office should look at changing some of the requirements in the current rules, for instance allowing the future income from an applicant's job in the UK (assuming he/she had one at the time of application).  Because the Supreme Court also said that  an income threshold (currently 18,600 GBP a year) is legal, I'm wondering if the government will do a mix and match. Perhaps allow an applicant's job-offer income to be taken into account, but raising the threshold at the same time. Give a little, take a lot.   I wouldn't be surprised to see the threshold go up to around 25,000 GBP if that happened.

 

As an example of how the government considers the importance of family life (for settlement applicants and visit visa applicants), this is taken from a visit visa refusal notice where the applicant has a husband and two British children in the UK, but cannot get a visit visa to see them. Her husband does not meet the 18,600 GBP threshold :

 

"It is also open to you to maintain close contact through all modern means of communication "

 

That, in my opinion, is shameful.

 

 

 

[bobrussell]

It is shameful but is it a symptom of lower level civil servants making decisions based on box ticking? I cannot see anyone with half a brain accepting that it is OK for a British child to have contact with a parent via the internet only!

We live in an on-line world but pretty difficult for a parent to give a crying child a cuddle over Skype!

Moving students to a different and more appropriate visa type and stronger rules to ensure non-EU partners can be supported without tax-payer intervention should allow a more humane approach to immigration as well as getting the immigration figures within their targets!

Perhaps too much of a tangent!!

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

5 hours ago, Seekingasylum said:

Err, Hauptmann, simply because an increasing majority of British are no more than lumpen, ill-educated oafs too stupid to comprehend just how dumb they might be, it is no justification for a decent political party to pander to the base instincts that propel the herd towards, one hopes, their well deserved penury and economic oblivion in the hope it may gain an electoral advantage not otherwise available.

So, I wonder just what qualifies you to defy a democratic vote?

It seems you would prefer the UK was run by a minority elite, with Tim Farron and his 8 MPs in charge.

[rasg]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Edit: I see the Mods have now removed that last sentence; well done them.

I reported it. Remarks like it are way over the top and thoroughly objectionable.

[Trevor1809]

1 hour ago, Tony M said:

 I wouldn't be surprised to see the threshold go up to around 25,000 GBP if that happened.

 

Whether it is £25000 pa, per month, per week or nothing at all. People not involved , and some people who should be intelligent enough to know the significance, always fail to grasp that the passport is stamped "no recourse to public funds". The earning limit is vindictive pure and simple.

[nontabury]

I take it, that this is what we are referring to. If this is actually true,I thinks it's disgraceful. Hopefully it will not effect my wife's application,as I can prove high income/cash. But what about all those British citizens who will be affected by this terrible policy.And just as importantly their British children.

These measure may also effect many ex-servicemen, people who may be able to trace their forefathers back hundreds of years, and having ancestors residing in military cematories in  northern France. Yet this government, who say they want to reduce immigration, instead of " Taking the Bull by the Horns" and dealing with what is the main problem. Instead decide, to basically attack what should automatically be a British citizens right.

 What the hell is Teresa May thinking. Perhaps she's looking forward to the day when the wives and British children, of British citizens, are camped out in Calais, in the hope of sneaking into the country.

 

    Slightly on this topic, perhaps 7x7 can confirm if it's true or not, that at present, E.U. national can in fact bring into the U.K,their non-EUropean wives. Without all this hassle.

 

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-manifesto-lest-theresa-may-immigration-foreign-spouses-threshold-a7742791.html

[KhunSteven]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Obviously I disagree with that statement!

I think the manifesto's stance on immigration is very much in line with current British public opinion and a sure-fire vote winner - polling done by CCO indicates its the most popular Conservative policy. In fact I would say that the majority of working class Labour supporters are also strongly against immigration.  Moreover I often see posts on TV from UK expats lamenting how the UK has changed due to mass immigration!

My impression is that hostility to immigrants (especially non-Caucasian) has increased sharply since the Brexit vote. My own wife (Thai) has experienced a couple of racist incidents here in the UK over the last year (and we lived in a very 'diverse' city).

Personally I don't know anybody who is not in favour of reducing immigration, and reducing non-European immigration is top of the list.

 

So Britain and the Tories have become a bunch of racist xenophobes.